Conspiracy Theories

[Jinsai]

that she was drugged and lured up to the roof by someone who knew the location of the cameras?

[elevenism]

@Ryan , all my theory is is a possibility of how she got up there. If you look at the photos of the roof, there is another part of the building that is higher than the water tanks.
Maybe there is a ladder going up to that part?
@Jinsai , perhaps, and someone who knew how to get on the roof without the alarm going off.

Okay, maybe this. Someone who worked at the hotel conspired to kill her with an accomplice.
The accomplice is stealthily chasing her. She's trying to hide from him in the elevator.
Then she sees the hotel worker. Maybe all that weird shit she is doing is her trying to silently signal to the worker that she is being pursued.

Then the worker says "don't worry, come with me."

He takes her up on the roof, and if there is a ladder, to the higher part of the roof.
And then the other dude comes and they kill her.

But i don't know.
Absent an explanation, this is STILL the creepiest fucking thing that i've ever seen in my life.
I don't know why, either. It just gets under your skin.

Ryan, when you said ghosts/demons before...i don't think i believe in fallen angels or spirits of the dead.
BUT, i think the prospect of interdimensional beings is very probable.

And this is one of those rare situations where, for me, a supernatural explanation is actually possible.

[Jinsai]

just because someone drugged her and lured her up to the roof doesn't mean they were intending to kill her. Her death could have been accidental, and then in a "oh shit what do I do with the body?!" moment, found a way to ditch the corpse in the tank.

[Exocet]

Had never heard of Elisa Lam or seen that video before today...that is an extremely creepy video. And very bizarre..
Know its my head messing with me, but im making out all sorts of images in that elevator. Am i the only one who sees a face staring at her??? Obviously been tampered with.
She obviously knew someone really sick and dangerous. I think she lured. By someone who had been studying the hotel for a long time. Amazed the killer has covered it all up so well.
To say that hotel has an unfortunate history is an understatement. Its legendary for its gory history.
There was a Jack the Ripper copycat killer in London area where he did his killing too.
Whoever did this, executed it flawlessly, be interesting to find out how he/she got her in that water tank...
Fucking gross people drank that water too.

[RocketScience]

Sorta semi-related to the Elisa Lam discussions.

http://bloody-disgusting.com/news/33...re-true-story/

[allegro]

I don't see the elevator video as "creepy," at all. She is acting very child-like: putting her face nearly at the buttons like a 6-yr-old to push them, jumping back, standing in the corner smiling slyly like she just did something very naughty, seeing the elevator door isn't closing and then hopping back out; anybody who has observed children in elevators observes pretty much every.single.thing she does in and outside of this elevator. She seems to be in some kind of child-like mood or silly state, and none of it is creepy unless children creep you out.

And she's clearly outside the elevator pushing the "up" or "down" button making the door open and close, later.

The only weird thing is why the door stayed open that long when she's pushed that many buttons, except maybe she pushed the "door open" button as well as all those floor buttons. Dunno.

[elevenism]

@allegro she looks terrified to me. and then her behavior is very strange (unless she is trying to signal someone.) And isn't behaving like a 6 year old odd for a grown woman with no drugs in her sysem? @Ryan and @Exocet i'm glad that this thing has gotten under someone ELSE'S skin.

[allegro]

@allegro she looks terrified to me. and then her behavior is very strange (unless she is trying to signal someone.) And isn't behaving like a 6 year old odd for a grown woman with no drugs in her sysem? @Ryan and @Exocet i'm glad that this thing has gotten under someone ELSE'S skin.

She looks terrified because you have been influenced by all the online comments and you want her to look terrified. If you slow down the video, stop it, analyze it, she is smiling, she is acting giddy, childlike. The online reports I read said that after a body floats in water that long, decomposing, toxicology test are inconclusive. Also, she could be having some kind of psychotic break from an undiagnosed mental disorder.

[Ryan]

A demon stalked and killed her. Case closed.

[elevenism]

A demon stalked and killed her. Case closed.

lolololol

i wrote a long ass reply to this, but i was at a hotel and it was on a phone and the fucking internet ate my reply.

I don't doubt the possibility of something supernatural having happened in this case.

But i'm just curious. When you say demon, are you talking actual fallen angel here? Or some kind of interdimensional evil?

And here's the real question. Who wants to go out there and solve it with me?
It would be fucking great! We could make a documentary about it.

[elevenism]

it's funny to laugh at "conspiracy theorists."

I mean, the CIA has never controlled the media! Not unless you count that one time that they ADMITTEDLY did it from the fifties to the 70s under operation mockingbird. They only did it for like two or three decades. And i'm sure they stopped. Hell, they SAID they stopped!

Our government never planned false flag attacks against the united states that we know of, except for that one time when the Joint Chiefs of Staff all signed off on a plan to commit terror attacks domestically and blame them on Cuba so that we could provoke an illegal war. It was just that one time, right?

And of course we never went to war under false pretenses, except for that little viet nam thing that we jumped into over an incident that didn't really happen in the gulf of tonkin. It's cool that it didn't really happen because that was like, a really long time ago. I mean, i guess that there's just that and the false testimony that was used to justify the first gulf war.

The cia was only involved in making money off of illegal cocaine trade during the iran contra affair, luckily.

Bayer only knowingly sold that AIDS and hepatitis contaminated haemophelia drug world wide for a few years, and the fda just helped them cover it up for a little while. And that was so everyone could protect their bottom line, so that makes sense.

Thank god all of those things happened in the past and could never happen again, and there is only declassified evidence of a few thousand more conspiracy "theories" that are now known to be fact.

Because the only people who think conspiracy theories are true are nut jobs like David Icke. It's convenient that he claimed that he was jesus and thinks that reptilian aliens run the world. It's just people like him and right wing kooks like alex jones.

I mean, don't QUESTiON anything that the government does. You might be ridiculed!

[allegro]

except for that little viet nam thing that we jumped into

Except the conflict between North and South Vietnam began in 1954, after the North Vietnamese defeated and threw out the French colonialists and took control of the country.

See timeline here.

See U.S. Navy assistance.

See U.S. Air Force assistance.

See CIA covert operations.

See Operation Passage to Freedom.

See Saigon Military Mission under Eisenhower in 1954 and 1955.

See timeline of U.S. Involvement in Vietnam.

Also, re Golf of Tonkin: There was a Reaction from Congress that was not hidden from the public or Congress. Of course, the American public -- and the Congress it elected -- was demonstrating fear of communism and fear of China. This was during the Cold War, which created very serious fear at the time. It made post-9/11 look like Disneyland.

Also, consider that the Strategic Hamlet Program was a complete failure, turning the South Vietnamese people against us and probably toward the communists, and that we pretty much had South Vietnam's first president killed, and the only way to try to "stop" the spread of communism in Vietnam was a full offensive.

People do question what the government does all the time; that's not a "conspiracy theory."

The Iran Contra Cocaine thing, for instance, was big news a long time ago when you were watching Sesame Street so maybe you weren't old enough to remember so it all seems "conspiracy" to you but it was all headline news to the rest of us, especially all of us who hated Reagan and, believe me, that was most of the fucking country at the time.

We actually witnessed Watergate, Deep Throat, all that shit. We saw Nixon resign.

We wore t-shirts that said "Don't Trust Anyone Over 30" (Gee, THAT'S YOU.)

And this was all due to REALITY, not due to conspiracy "theory."

We have the Patriot Act and the NSA, the TSA with unlimited and unquestioned power, and this is all truth and reality, and they all violate the U.S. Constitution, openly and in front of U.S. Voters who continue to vote for the elected officials who support these policies, because we are living in very conservative times, dude.

Conspiracy my ass.

"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly and with unflagging attention. It must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over. Here, as so often in this world, persistence is the first and most important requirement for success." -- Adolph Hitler, "Mein Kampf"

[elevenism]

Shit , @allegro , i obviously don't consider those things "theories" either. And i could go on and on with examples of things that were ONCE theories and wound up national news.
The point is that if you bring half of these things up to most people, they won't believe you.
Maybe we are living in conservative times. I'm actually starting to sense the zeitgeist leaning to the left.
But most importantly, we are living in IGNORANT times. And i would assume that we always have been.

As more and more information becomes declassified or is leaked, these "theories" become fact (indiscriminate NSA data mining through nefarious means being a prime example.)
And what we find OUT about is obviously just the very tip of the proverbial iceberg.
Trying to connect the dots on the things we DON'T know about makes one a "conspiracy theorist" in the eyes of many, as does talking about the things that have already been proven.
Take, for example, the number of trilateral and cfr members who wound up in the reagan administration AFTER he promised to expose all of them if elected. What in the fuck happened there? I guess that's where the "theory" part comes in.
When youve got rockefeller talking about how we "just need the right major crisis to get people to accept the new world order," and saying that he's PROUD and GUILTY AS CHARGED regarding working against the interests of the american people to realize his vision for the world, it disturbs me a little.
Throw in a few things like those denver airport murals and the georgia guidestones, and you wind up with damned good reasons to fear what steps he and his ilk might take to achieve their goals.

You know as well as i do that this country is no longer a constitutional republic. It's a corporate oligarchy.
This is reality.
I'm not the one who came up with the term "conspiracy theory."

I know these things. You obviously know more.

But try explaining to everyone else that the government is owned by private banks and that JSOC and the CIA do WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT. Mention operation mockingbird or MKULTRA.

They will tell you that you're an "alarmist" or "like alex jones."

And YOU will be called a conspiracy theorist.

At least that's how it works with people my age.

So when i talk about "conspiracy theory," i'm talking about the things i'm discussing here...not reptilian aliens.

EDIT: and btw, what we need is an ACTUAL OUTSIDER in the white house who will bring this shit to a screeching halt.
I know that this will probably never happen in a country where greed is pretty much the defining virtue, but i can dream, can't i?
I don't give a shit if it comes from the left or the right.
I want the fucking constitutional republic we were guaranteed. I want groups like the cfr and the trilaterals and even bilderberg to be transparent. I want to know what in the fuck the cia knows. I want to see the fed abolished.

Basically i want that anti-secrecy speech JFK made to come true, damnit.

also i thought you'd like this one

[allegro]

Operation Mockingbird wasn't successful. Just because it EXISTED doesn't mean the government had even one iota of "control" over the media.

You want to see "control" over the media, look at countries like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

The U.S. Government has had a lot of hair-brained unsuccessful programs; it doesn't mean 90% of them had any chance of success.

The Government isn't "owned" by private banks and the CIA doesn't do whatever it wants, it always gets ratted out by some insider or by the FBI (which hates the CIA). The system, no matter how corrupt, has checks and balances because there are always whistle-blowers and/or there is always somebody / something even MORE corrupt or greedy.

The fact that our Government is corrupt isn't a conspiracy; it's the nature of a Republic. Because it's human nature. Just ask Julius Caesar.

And there are complete fucking nuts who insist that Kennedy was killed by the Mob*. <---- *CONSPIRACY THEORY

A "conspiracy theory" isn't something ACTUALLY EXISTS; it's something that doesn't exist but people insist exists and is allegedly being hidden.

Talking about it after it leaks isn't a conspiracy theory. Nobody knows about it or theorizes about it before it leaks, because nobody knows about highly classified information. It isn't until after it leaks that it becomes known.

Just because a bunch of your generation are uneducated morons doesn't mean that facts = "conspiracy." It just means they are morons.

If they think the eye on the dollar bill is a symbol of some kind of cult of our founding fathers: Yeah, that's a conspiracy theory.

If they think that Sept 11 was deliberate and our government had it done on purpose: conspiracy theory. Only uneducated morons think this shit.

Not just people "your age" but people my DAD'S age or our friends' age who think that the economy started tanking the minute we removed the gold standard, and that the only we way can protect ourselves from ruin is to sell everything and buy gold, and that China is trying to take over the U.S. by ruining us and devaluing the Yuan. It's the Chicken Little people.

I bring up all of what I mentioned in my above post and I guarantee you that all the educated people I know will believe me; because they know history. But uneducated people on Facebook? Maybe you know the wrong people, dude. Maybe you need to expand your friends. No offense. If most of the people you know have their respective heads in the sand about current events, maybe it's time to find new friends. But I guarantee you that I know lots of educated people your age who know a lot about history, politics, etc.

Re crisis and war, there was a time when war started out pretty bad, but it was believed that it ultimately brought people together in unity and improved the economy.

The rest of your post is somewhat disjointed so I can't really follow it.

[elevenism]

The edit part is disjointed?

I was on a tangent about wanting change and wanting it to come from the white house.

Edit: and my point was that all of those things happened, the things that i listed in the first post.

They were once conspiracy theories. Then they were exposed as truth.

I don't think it's crazy to speculate on fucked up things that are going on CURRENTLY, that haven't been exposed. Those are conspiracy theories.

In other words, once upon a time the bayer haemophelia drug being tainted was a conspiracy theory.
Then it was exposed as fact.

Looking at strange things and wondering what the next declassified document or whistleblower's leak will reveal does not make one insane, or a moron.

That was my entire point.

[allegro]

They were once conspiracy theories. Then they were exposed as truth.

No. That's not true.

The Gulf of Tonkin was exposed pretty much immediately. But people decided to go with the offensive, anyway, because they thought we had to "stop communism from spreading."

Nobody was sitting around going "wow, I wonder if the government is trying to control the media." People ALWAYS KNEW IT because there was always stupid evidence, there were whistle-blowers, and journalists were always saying "go fuck yourself" because of Freedom of the Press and the government CAN'T control the fucking media.

Iran Contra was TOTALLY SECRET and there was NO CONSPIRACY OR KNOWLEDGE until it was exposed. Hindsight is 20/20. You can't say it's a conspiracy, now, 30 years later, when it wasn't.

Etc. etc. etc.

You can't say that it was a conspiracy before it was knowledge just because we know it now and it used to be a secret.

secret - knowledge does not = conspiracy

In other words, once upon a time the bayer haemophelia drug being tainted was a conspiracy theory.

Prove it. We didn't have the Internet until 1994, and even then all that existed was shitty vanity sites and horrible search engines. How do you think these alleged "conspiracy theories" spread? Carrier pigeons?

Back then, nobody even knew how AIDS or HIV was transmitted. It's why blood wasn't screened for many years. Ryan White was kicked out of school because people thought HIV was transmitted by AIR. Trust me, I had a brother with AIDS; Even in 2002, nurses in hospitals would stand on the other side of the room. That's not conspiracy; that's stupidity.

Looking at strange things and wondering what the next declassified document or whistleblower's leak will reveal does not make one insane, or a moron.

No, but it does make you Chicken Little, to an extent. This isn't some new phenomenon. Our government (or any government) didn't suddenly become "bad" and full of "conspiracies." It's always been that way.

Another 60s T-Shirt: Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean everybody isn't really out to get you.

Here's some Plato for you.

[elevenism]

And as far as the bayer drug, check out a doc called Bad Blood.
It wasn't so much AIDS that was suspected, it was the hepatitis.

Corruption, cover ups, secret knowledge, call it what you will. Again, i didn't come up with the term "conspiracy theory."
It's interesting what you can find, however, if you look at web pages that talk about "conspiracy theories that turned out to be true," that sort of thing.

Of course it's not a new phenomenon, but it's one that i've only become aware of in the past ten years or so. I honestly never dreamed that certain types of corruption were possible in the almighty US of A. I had the wool pulled over my eyes pretty damned tightly.

Evidence of secrecy and corruption, past, present, and speculating on the future of these sorts of things interests me.

Call me chicken little i guess.

and chicken little must lay down because his back hurts.

This could go on forever. I know from experience that it's impossible for me to WIN a debate with you. I just do it because i usually learn interesting shit that i didn't know before

I can't do it as MUCH until these compression fractures heal.

My bottom line here is that people assume that ALL conspiracies/cover ups are/were false. And that is not the case.

[allegro]

Bayer wrote a bunch of checks in that class action case in Europe. That's corporate corruption, however, not government corruption. And sometimes it's not corruption so much as stupid oversight, or one group of management not telling another group of management (see also GM Ignition Switches and Airbag Recalls).

Of course you didn't come up with the term "conspiracy theory" -- I provided you with a definition link 4 posts ago.

History
The Oxford English Dictionary defines conspiracy theory as "the theory that an event or phenomenon occurs as a result of a conspiracy between interested parties; spec. a belief that some covert but influential agency (typically political in motivation and oppressive in intent) is responsible for an unexplained event", and cites a 1909 article in The American Historical Review as the earliest usage example.

But be careful about your sources when you look at web pages, etc. I know this as I do research for a living. Don't believe everything you see on the Internet. And, be careful about hyperbole and propaganda disguised as entertainment (film, etc.).

I honestly never dreamed that certain types of corruption were possible in the almighty US of A. I had the wool pulled over my eyes pretty damned tightly.

So you didn't know anything about J Edgar Hoover??

[Baphomette]

We didn't have the Internet until 1994, and even then all that existed was shitty vanity sites and horrible search engines. How do you think these alleged "conspiracy theories" spread? Carrier pigeons?

Additionally, the origins of some "conspiracy theories" are rooted in disinformation. I've seen some stuff floating around that I know for a fact came from Spy.

[elevenism]

Additionally, the origins of some "conspiracy theories" are rooted in disinformation. I've seen some stuff floating around that I know for a fact came from Spy.

hell, 95% of them are rooted in disinformation.
That's half the fun...looking for a needle in a stack of needles.

Speaking of disinformation and hyperbole, i will admit that i do have a guilty pleasure: the "documentaries" about how satan runs the music industry and the evidence is EVERYWHERE, from Zeppelin to the latest justin beiber video.
Now i don't even believe in satan. But these films can be pretty damned entertaining.
Just suspend your disbelief for two hours and enjoy. They work pretty much like found-footage horror movies.

See, to become a pop star, you have to sign an ACTUAL CONTRACT with Lucifer himself.
You may also have to commit a ritual blood sacrifice of one of your friends or family members.
Gay sex is also part of it. All of the rappers are participating in homosexual ritual satanic activity.
Jay Z is in on it, as are lady gaga, little wayne, miley cyrus, eminem-pretty much every pop star on the face of the earth LITERALLY works for Satan, the Morning Star.
There's "evidence" in all of their videos, music, and personal lives.
It's so much fun to watch.
It's like one of those old Bob Larson books that i read for fun when i was a kid, but it's in a documentary format and it's up to date.

And then there's the whole "world is run by reptilian aliens" that a DISTURBING number of people believe in. I haven't checked much of that out, but i would imagine that it's top notch entertainment!

[elevenism]

someone found me on this forum and pm'd me, claiming to have secret information about Stratford of Texas, the company my grandfather was involved in (the grandfather who i think was murdered.)
she had a LOT of details that are not exactly readily available, and contrary to the official storyline, one of them being that the company was PURPOSELY run into the ground.
She also said that the SoT partners were not above murder.

I feel like i'm in a fucking Grisham book or something.

The last line of the message was "let me know if you want to know the truth."

creepy, right? she claims to have found my posts about SoT here by doing a google search, but they don;t come up when I do a google search....

i've been researching this for years and i feel like i'm dangerously close to figuring it out...

[Archive_Reports]

Or someone has read your ramblings and is screwing with you.

[Khrz]

Both possibilities sound equally un/likely, honestly...

[allegro]

someone found me on this forum and pm'd me, claiming to have secret information about Stratford of Texas, the company my grandfather was involved in (the grandfather who i think was murdered.)
she had a LOT of details that are not exactly readily available, and contrary to the official storyline, one of them being that the company was PURPOSELY run into the ground.
She also said that the SoT partners were not above murder.

I feel like i'm in a fucking Grisham book or something.

The last line of the message was "let me know if you want to know the truth."

creepy, right? she claims to have found my posts about SoT here by doing a google search, but they don;t come up when I do a google search....

i've been researching this for years and i feel like i'm dangerously close to figuring it out...

I did a Google search using the parameters "Stratford of Texas Inc Cactus Feeders Bankruptcy" and this was included:

[elevenism]

ahhh ha @allegro .

Ok, This lady is weaving a fairly interesting tale of conspiracy about her ex husband or lover, Jerry Barber.
@Archive_Reports , i don't think that its just someone who is screwing with me.
She has way too much information.
Also, if she is the person that she is CLAIMING to be, then my mother used to babysit her kids.

I'm pretty sure this is real, y'all

btw allegro, i wanted to talk to you about this privately, but i can't message you

[elevenism]

@allegro unlock your pm's and i will send you the messages, if you want to

[allegro]

ahhh ha @allegro .

Ok, This lady is weaving a fairly interesting tale of conspiracy about her ex husband or lover, Jerry Barber.
@Archive_Reports , i don't think that its just someone who is screwing with me.
She has way too much information.
Also, if she is the person that she is CLAIMING to be, then my mother used to babysit her kids.

I'm pretty sure this is real, y'all

btw allegro, i wanted to talk to you about this privately, but i can't message you

If you google "Stratford of Texas Gow Yale" you get this (note that I am just cherry picking your prior posts, I do legal research for a living):

[allegro]

@allegro unlock your pm's and i will send you the messages, if you want to

Nah, thanks

My brain is fried from doing this shit all day. This afternoon, my Boss actually called me "Sherlock Holmes." Wtf.

[elevenism]

Nah, thanks

..........

[elevenism]

Nah, thanks

My brain is fried from doing this shit all day. This afternoon, my Boss actually called me "Sherlock Holmes." Wtf.

why do you think i want you to look into this?