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Thread: Ferguson and general police misconduct

  1. #1
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    Ferguson and general police misconduct

    This thread needs to exist.

    I've been following what's going down in Ferguson as I can, though I definitely don't feel I've given it the attention it deserves.

    Between Twitter and livestreams and press, there's so much coverage. Though it seems that press/media is having a pretty horrific time there. Lots of people are.

    Also, two ets members (that I know of) live in Ferguson.

    I want to listen to other peoples thoughts/what you guys have been following. But this whole thing is pretty awful. Someone described Brown's shooting as a drop in a very full bucket. This short video details that really well.

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    I live about 7 miles from Ferguson, it's all anyone talks about over here.

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    The whole thing absolutely fucking sucks.

    There are SO MANY conversations that can be had from this, though: profiling, diversion tactics(not releasing the officer's name for SO LONG, and then packaging it with a video of a "robbery"), police militarization, 1st amendment rights being trampled on in all forms, brutality, competence, racism in all different forms... The list goes on and on.

    It's a scary fucking deal. Everything about this whole situation is bad.

    I'm attending a rally tonight. Hope NYPD keeps calm.

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    ^^ Be safe!! ^^

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    It's a frightening look at how far from true progress we are and a wake up call to those who think police are adequately doing their job, as if the NYPD fiascos weren't enough. The process by which we hire police, and how they're monitored thereafter needs to be overhauled (but it won't be). Police procedure isn't to try and apprehend subjects from your car. You don't shoot an unarmed person 6 times. You don't attack the people and media with rubber bullets, fire and tear gas. You don't cause riots. But they do. They have. The evidence shows this happening.
    To craft a bullshit story after days with no info given only proves this more. It took what, like four days for them to spin that robbery tale, only for that to crumble within the same day?
    Last edited by Swykk; 08-20-2014 at 11:18 AM.

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    We need national legislation requiring police officers to wear cameras on their persons at all times. If they disable or remove the camera, ever, they are removed from duty without pay or pension and if anything happens during that time, they are immediately assumed to be at fault.

    As I said in another thread, I was born/raised in Detroit and was a child during the Detroit race riots of 1967. That was very similar to this, but Detroit was a LOT worse, obviously.

    The big difference, however, was media: When the national guard or police initiates a curfew, that goes for everybody; citizens, media, everyone. I do NOT like how the police handled this situation in Ferguson. At all. I do not like the brutal way they handled ordinary, peaceful protesting citizens. That being said, when a curfew is in place, the police force's and the national guard's job is to get everyone off the street, and that includes the media. This is generally believed to be for the protection of all citizens. There are definitely some instigators, some provocateurs, some rogue protestors who are there just to provoke trouble, who are not there for peaceful protest, who are putting the lives of the peaceful citizens and the peaceful protestors in danger. I also do not like these looters, many of whom do not even LIVE in that area, and who came in from other areas or even states to take advantage or commit crimes, and are detracting from the real issue, here.

    It's sad that we haven't seem to have come very far since 1967.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-20-2014 at 12:07 PM.

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    I posted this in "cheer up" thread but it applies here as well and would certainly help.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/hank...nforcement-act

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    Also, I posted this in another thread:

    Stop Arming the Police Like the Military.

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    I would just like to give a round of applause for The Onion/Clickhole for absolutely nailing the entire situation. They have been so on point.

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    What gets me is how many people, online, in the comments section, the people over at my mom's condo complex, etc., are focusing on how this "big black kid" strong-armed this little Asian guy and stole some cigars, and how THAT somehow justified Mike Brown being shot SIX FUCKING TIMES, twice in the HEAD, while unarmed.

    This is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, where you are entitled, per our United States Constitution, to a fair trial by a jury of your peers. He was unarmed, the police could have fired shots to disable him, then they could have arrested him and brought him to justice and had him tried through our justice system. But, instead, the police acted as judge and jury and shot him dead. Right there on the street. And that's just bullshit.

    Want more examples of the Constitution being violated? Look at the Cook County Jail here in Chicago. When you are accused of a crime, you are entitled to a speedy trial, per the U.S. Constitution. It doesn't matter if you're guilty or not, you are still entitled to a TRIAL. "[Cook County Clerk Preckwinkle] pointed out that 70 percent of the inmates are waiting for trial on non-violent charges." That's all kinds of bullshit! And the VAST majority of them are minority inmates without any money. Sitting there waiting for a fucking TRIAL. FOR FIVE YEARS.

    So, here's the scoop: You either get thrown into jail and forgotten about, or you get shot dead. Welcome to America, land of the fucking free.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-20-2014 at 02:14 PM.

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    Yes... But they claim that the first four shots that connected "didn't disable" him. Yeah. Sure.

    Like, it's REAL FUCKED UP to read some people's justification for this shit.

    They bring up 2,443,291 unrelated topics that in their mind, somehow justifies a kid being murdered in the street. NONE of those topics matter. I couldn't give two fucks what he was doing before he was killed. What was happening in that moment had zero justification for murdering him.

    DID YOU SEE THAT PHOTO OF HIM FLIPPING OFF THE CAMERA?! OBVI A THUG.

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    A friend posted this on Facebook: Evidently, Ferguson has hired some police force rejects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah K View Post
    Yes... But they claim that the first four shots that connected "didn't disable" him. Yeah. Sure.
    The cop stories keep changing, but press conference with the family's medical examiner, the retired guy from New York, that was fascinating, and it seemed obvious to me that the grouping of shots showed he was holding his arm up in the air. Anybody who's ever fired a gun at a firing range would see this immediately. You take the one side of his body, put that one arm up in the air and, there you go, a grouping, he was protecting himself. The "kill shot" was right through his head, per the medical examiner. All of the witnesses had pretty much the same story, which is pretty rare, actually. People tend to be really weirded out and remember things in different ways, but these witnesses are saying the same details, and they do not corroborate with the cops' story at all, and the witness accounts were pretty instant, so it wasn't like there was some kind of "advance meeting" to come up with a corroborated witness story. My gut says that there is going to be a cell phone video that will come forward somewhere. I sure hope so.

    Look, if we want, we can step way from the race issue of police / SWAT team brutality, here, and look at other examples.

    HERE'S ONE THAT PISSED ME THE FUCK OFF.

    Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK. It wasn't until the Chicago Tribune got ahold of of this story that anybody even knew about it.

    And now that police officer is facing trial for reckless conduct. Which is far less that the MURDER charges he should be facing.

    Here was a senile, medicated 95-year-old man in a nursing home. As the one retired police chief said in the above interview, all these cops had to do was lock the door to the old man's room and let him sleep it off. The old man was in hospice, he was dying, he was a decorated war veteran, he was confused, he was refusing his medicine. But the fucking cops devised a "plan" and blasted into his room in SWAT gear and ignored the MANUAL for the bean bag guns and blasted the old guy at close range and killed him.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-20-2014 at 12:29 PM.

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    I think stepping away from the race conversation involved with police brutality removes one of the biggest(if not THE biggest) issues.

    Edit: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...ushpmg00000063

    They arrested a 90 year old Holocaust survivor. So I for sure feel safer.
    Last edited by Sarah K; 08-20-2014 at 12:24 PM.

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    but, the problem is that after September 11th, the police in many communities across the country have been arming themselves with fucking tanks and SWAT type provisions as if we're fucking Beirut.

    Linked above: http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2014...ilitary/87163/

    If there’s anything I know after serving the Boston Police Department for 27 years, it’s this: Good policing is all about trust.

    This isn’t a particularly novel insight, but my time as a beat cop hammered it into me time and again. Yet it’s incredible how many police departments across the nation have lost sight of this in their rush to transform into something more akin to a standing army rather than a civilian police force safeguarding a democratic people.

    Have no doubt, police in the United States are militarizing, and in many communities, particularly those of color, the message is being received loud and clear: “You are the enemy.” Police officers are increasingly arming themselves with military-grade equipment such as assault rifles, flashbang grenades, and Mine Resistant Ambush Protected, or MRAP, vehicles and dressing up in commando gear before using battering rams to burst into the homes of people who have not been charged with a crime. Perhaps more alarming is the fact that the Pentagon has played a huge role in this militarization by transferring its weapons of war to civilian police departments through its so-called 1033 program.

    Many communities now look upon police as an occupying army, their streets more reminiscent of Baghdad or Kabul than a city in America. This besieged mentality created by the militarization of police has driven a pernicious wedge into the significant gains made under community- and problem-oriented policing initiatives dating from the late 1980s. The trusting relationships so many police officers painstakingly built within their communities have been eroded by the mindset of the warrior cop.

    One of the more alarming trends in the overall militarization of police, which has accelerated since 9/11, is the use of Special Weapons and Tactics, or SWAT, teams for routine police work. According to the ACLU’s new report, “War Comes Home,” the majority of the SWAT raids it examined was to execute search warrants, usually in low-level drug investigations. The ACLU also found that many of the SWAT raids it studied used unjustifiably “violent tactics and equipment,” often in homes where children were known to be present.

    The ACLU also found something far more worrisome but unfortunately not surprising. The use of SWAT teams disproportionately impacts people of color, particularly when the teams were deployed to execute a search warrant for a drug investigation. Of the cases the ACLU studied, when SWAT raids affected blacks and Latinos, 68 percent were for drug searches. But when SWAT raids affected whites, only 38 percent were for drug searches, even though whites use drugs at roughly the same rates as blacks and Latinos.

    This discriminatory and excessive use of SWAT teams turns the criminal justice system on its head and eviscerates the presumption of innocence, which is the hallmark of American justice. People who have been charged with no crime aren’t only treated like they’re guilty; they’re made to endure a violent intrusion into their home based on the mere suspicion of low-level crimes. To the victims of unnecessary SWAT raids and their communities, the idea that police are there to serve and protect them becomes a bad joke.

    This isn’t to say that the use of SWAT teams is never justified. I know better than most. I participated in one of the very first SWAT deployments at the Boston Police Department when a man who shot a police superintendent barricaded himself in an apartment. But this is the precise type of situation that the SWAT program was created for, not breaking down the door of people in the middle of the night with guns drawn in pursuit of drugs.

    Militarized policing undermines the very notion of law enforcement in a democratic society. Rather than reassuring us that we are safe and out of harm’s way, it creates a pervasive sense that we are unsafe and in danger, sometimes from the police themselves. It’s not surprising then that the ACLU also discovered that the militarization of domestic law enforcement occurred without any input, direction, or oversight from affected communities and that law enforcement agencies’ records on acquisitions of military weapons, vehicles, and equipment were “virtually nonexistent.”

    The situation, however, is far from being beyond hope or possible resolution. Not all police practitioners — including policy makers, administrators, managers, supervisors and line officers — endorse and support the militarization of America’s law enforcement agencies. Progressive police chiefs in Madison, Wisconsin, and Salt Lake City, Utah, for example, have been publicly critical of police militarization practices and initiatives.

    If we want to roll back the militarization of our police forces, the ACLU offers many common sense recommendations, but two stand out as critical first steps. The first is that the use of paramilitary tactics should be restricted solely to situations where there is a true and verifiable emergency, such as a hostage or barricade situation. The second would require that police record and report all uses of paramilitary tactics, including a justification for the use of SWAT, as well as all injuries and property damage caused by the use of SWAT teams.

    Our streets and communities aren’t warzones, but the creeping militarization of our police forces and the warrior mindset it creates has the feel of a self-fulfilling prophecy on the part of our nation’s law enforcement agencies.

    Dr. Tom Nolan is an associate professor and the chair of the Department of Criminal Justice at the State University of New York at Plattsburgh. He served 27 years in the Boston Police Department before retiring as a uniformed lieutenant.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-20-2014 at 02:13 PM.

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    Rand Paul did an Op-Ed piece for Time Magazine (linked in Swykk's above link

    Rand Paul: We Must Demilitarize the Police

    Anyone who thinks race does not skew the application of criminal justice in this country is just not paying close enough attention, Sen. Rand Paul writes for TIME, amid violence in Ferguson, Mo. over the police shooting death of Michael Brown

    The shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown is an awful tragedy that continues to send shockwaves through the community of Ferguson, Missouri and across the nation.

    If I had been told to get out of the street as a teenager, there would have been a distinct possibility that I might have smarted off. But, I wouldn’t have expected to be shot.

    The outrage in Ferguson is understandable—though there is never an excuse for rioting or looting. There is a legitimate role for the police to keep the peace, but there should be a difference between a police response and a military response.

    The images and scenes we continue to see in Ferguson resemble war more than traditional police action.

    Glenn Reynolds, in Popular Mechanics, recognized the increasing militarization of the police five years ago. In 2009 he wrote:

    "Soldiers and police are supposed to be different. … Police look inward. They’re supposed to protect their fellow citizens from criminals, and to maintain order with a minimum of force. It’s the difference between Audie Murphy and Andy Griffith. But nowadays, police are looking, and acting, more like soldiers than cops, with bad consequences. And those who suffer the consequences are usually innocent civilians."

    The Cato Institute’s Walter Olson observed this week how the rising militarization of law enforcement is currently playing out in Ferguson:

    "Why armored vehicles in a Midwestern inner suburb? Why would cops wear camouflage gear against a terrain patterned by convenience stores and beauty parlors? Why are the authorities in Ferguson, Mo. so given to quasi-martial crowd control methods (such as bans on walking on the street) and, per the reporting of Riverfront Times, the firing of tear gas at people in their own yards? (“‘This my property!’ he shouted, prompting police to fire a tear gas canister directly at his face.”) Why would someone identifying himself as an 82nd Airborne Army veteran, observing the Ferguson police scene, comment that “We rolled lighter than that in an actual warzone”?"

    Olson added, “the dominant visual aspect of the story, however, has been the sight of overpowering police forces confronting unarmed protesters who are seen waving signs or just their hands.”

    How did this happen?

    Most police officers are good cops and good people. It is an unquestionably difficult job, especially in the current circumstances.

    There is a systemic problem with today’s law enforcement.

    Not surprisingly, big government has been at the heart of the problem. Washington has incentivized the militarization of local police precincts by using federal dollars to help municipal governments build what are essentially small armies—where police departments compete to acquire military gear that goes far beyond what most of Americans think of as law enforcement.

    This is usually done in the name of fighting the war on drugs or terrorism. The Heritage Foundation’s Evan Bernick wrote in 2013 that, “the Department of Homeland Security has handed out anti-terrorism grants to cities and towns across the country, enabling them to buy armored vehicles, guns, armor, aircraft, and other equipment.”

    Bernick continued, “federal agencies of all stripes, as well as local police departments in towns with populations less than 14,000, come equipped with SWAT teams and heavy artillery.”

    Bernick noted the cartoonish imbalance between the equipment some police departments possess and the constituents they serve, “today, Bossier Parish, Louisiana, has a .50 caliber gun mounted on an armored vehicle. The Pentagon gives away millions of pieces of military equipment to police departments across the country—tanks included.”

    When you couple this militarization of law enforcement with an erosion of civil liberties and due process that allows the police to become judge and jury—national security letters, no-knock searches, broad general warrants, pre-conviction forfeiture—we begin to have a very serious problem on our hands.

    Given these developments, it is almost impossible for many Americans not to feel like their government is targeting them. Given the racial disparities in our criminal justice system, it is impossible for African-Americans not to feel like their government is particularly targeting them.

    This is part of the anguish we are seeing in the tragic events outside of St. Louis, Missouri. It is what the citizens of Ferguson feel when there is an unfortunate and heartbreaking shooting like the incident with Michael Brown.

    Anyone who thinks that race does not still, even if inadvertently, skew the application of criminal justice in this country is just not paying close enough attention. Our prisons are full of black and brown men and women who are serving inappropriately long and harsh sentences for non-violent mistakes in their youth.

    The militarization of our law enforcement is due to an unprecedented expansion of government power in this realm. It is one thing for federal officials to work in conjunction with local authorities to reduce or solve crime. It is quite another for them to subsidize it.

    Americans must never sacrifice their liberty for an illusive and dangerous, or false, security. This has been a cause I have championed for years, and one that is at a near-crisis point in our country.

    Let us continue to pray for Michael Brown’s family, the people of Ferguson, police, and citizens alike.

    Paul is the junior U.S. Senator for Kentucky.

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    Rand Paul nailed it and is the only politician to come anywhere near that level. That should tell you how likely it is that we will ever see national legislation that changes the police militarization in a meaningful way... unless citizens and their officials decide to change. Watching Rand Paul come out *way* left of the democrats AND with a workable plan of attack seriously has me changing my views on him though.


    That said, I'm glad a large portion of the country is actually starting to talk about this problem that is heavily rooted in the War on Drugs and War on Terror. It's kind of surreal to hear everyone saying shit that Ice-T was saying in the early 90's. I could go on and on about how much we need to change things, but most of it was already covered above.


    As for the topic of the Mike Brown killing, I really think people need to let it go to court. Brown's judge, jury, and executioner was a cop... and that is FUCKED UP. You don't respond to a complete lack of integrity like this with more of it. The idiots trying to scrape together every bit of "evidence" and "testimony" in an attempt to lay guilt on one party of the other are just absurd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    We need national legislation requiring police officers to wear cameras on their persons at all times. If they disable or remove the camera, ever, they are removed from duty without pay or pension and if anything happens during that time, they are immediately assumed to be at fault.
    There are already cases where cops are "accidentally" bumping their cameras contrast all the way up so you can't see anything or knocking the focus out. They will always find a way. I mean, look at their fucking name tags. They find ways to pin them so they face up into the sky and are hard to read but technically visible, etc.

    We need better wearable cameras but we also need sousveillance from the public. Stuff the cops have no way (or at least a much harder time) of messing with. It's already growing with all the smart phones, but it's going to get better.

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    Uh oh. Ferguson's finest, ladies and gentlemen!


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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    As for the topic of the Mike Brown killing, I really think people need to let it go to court. Brown's judge, jury, and executioner was a cop... and that is FUCKED UP. You don't respond to a complete lack of integrity like this with more of it. The idiots trying to scrape together every bit of "evidence" and "testimony" in an attempt to lay guilt on one party of the other are just absurd.
    Well, that's what the Brown family and their attorneys want; they want the shooter(s) charged and they want it to go to court.

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    Yes i know... political satire, he has writers, "quoting comedians makes you look like a stupid" and blah blah blah.

    Hard not to agree with what was covered though.. lots of great points.

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    ^ Nearly simultaneous post, n/m...they've got it covered already.

    :)
    Last edited by Hazekiah; 08-20-2014 at 07:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Well, that's what the Brown family and their attorneys want; they want the shooter(s) charged and they want it to go to court.
    And that's totally fine. And they are out there peacefully protesting and there is no issue. It's everyone that is latching onto any little bit of info released and trying to proclaim guilt for one party or another. It's just fucking stupid.

    Discuss the police militarization, the racial imbalances in our legal system, etc... but trying to vindicate the cop or Brown in this mess is just silly right now.

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    Best article I've seen about the police militarization issue:
    http://www.steynonline.com/6524/cigars-but-not-close




    just a few of the points:
    - The Ferguson PD used as many bullets on Michael Brown as the Polizei used on ten million Germans.
    - The biggest government in the free world chooses not to keep statistics on how many people get shot by law enforcement.
    - A soldier wears green camo in Vietnam to blend in. A policeman wears green camo in Ferguson to stand out - to let you guys know: We're here, we're severe, get used to it.
    - When an unarmed shoplifter in T-shirt and shorts with a five-buck cigar box in one hand has to be shot dead, you're doing it wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    - When an unarmed shoplifter in T-shirt and shorts with a five-buck cigar box in one hand has to be shot dead, you're doing it wrong.
    But he was going to make a THUG MARIJUANA BLUNT with them. And listen to the THUG RAP MUSIC.

    /sarcasm

    Killer Mike is pretty on-point here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9dZctr84QY

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    St. Louis release footage of Kajieme Powell killing that somewhat contradicts their original story.

    Warning: Graphic content...it's a video of a man being brutally gunned down, so yeah.....warning.

    Seems pretty fucked up to me, 9-10 rounds for a knife-wielding person, who could've easily been shot in the knee or with non-lethal force. Plus, you're gonna roll a body over and cuff it afterwards? wtf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by october_midnight View Post
    Plus, you're gonna roll a body over and cuff it afterwards? wtf.
    well YEAH! If you don't do that you run a very high risk of the body resisting arrest just like this guy:


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    Quote Originally Posted by xmd 5a View Post
    But he was going to make a THUG MARIJUANA BLUNT with them. And listen to the THUG RAP MUSIC.

    /sarcasm

    Killer Mike is pretty on-point here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9dZctr84QY

    Pretty spot-on. But screw calling Mike Brown "a child." They did the same bullshit with Trayvon Martin. Everything else was solid though.


    It's fucked up that nobody will know how police used to be outside of reruns of the Andy Griffith show. There have been many steps of separation between how things used to be. You no longer see locals policing their own neighborhood. You have cops come in from different counties to police. Now, you have the federal government providing funding and other resources to local police. That is fucked up and it pollutes the relationship that is supposed to exist. The only people who should be paying police are the very people who are being policed by them.


    This also makes me think about a larger cultural thing beyond the police. People don't give a shit about their neighbors anymore. It's very rare to see people reach out to help someone. Everyone just keeps their head down. I think it's a mixture of many things (fear of being sued, a less responsible & respectful culture, fear of being hurt, etc) but it certainly has an impact on how individuals act in their communities too.

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    I've read law enforcement complaining about being under a microscope, well newsflash maybe you shouldn't have taken up that profession in the first place? you are given permissions and use of force that ordinary citizens aren't meant to have and you expect to be trusted right off the bat? you expect that when instances such as this happen that people aren't going to want to look twice at who is supposed to serve and protect the community? gtfo! being held accountable for your actions comes with the job.
    Last edited by thelastdisciple; 08-20-2014 at 11:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    Uh oh. Ferguson's finest, ladies and gentlemen!

    http://youtu.be/8zbR824FKpU
    The ACLU got Officer "go fuck yourself" removed from duty:
    https://twitter.com/aclu_mo/status/502181704493432833

    I hope he gets tried for the death threats though (a felony).

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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    The ACLU got Officer "go fuck yourself" removed from duty:
    https://twitter.com/aclu_mo/status/502181704493432833

    I hope he gets tried for the death threats though (a felony).
    I just could not believe that shit, aiming a loaded assault weapon at random citizens and threatening them.

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