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Thread: General Police Misconduct aka Murdering Black People

  1. #91
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    Glaring mistakes were made from the get go by the police. Why wait so long to release info? If that cop's face was smashed, why not lead with that? Case nearly closed.
    Instead, their story keeps changing, in a well known good ol' boys network of law enforcement, no less. This is why people are justifiably angry.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    Glaring mistakes were made from the get go by the police. Why wait so long to release info? If that cop's face was smashed, why not lead with that? Case nearly closed.
    Instead, their story keeps changing. This is why people are justifiably angry.
    I was just thinking this... At first, it was like "The cop has a swollen cheek" which is now being spun into THE COP WAS BEATEN. If the cop was "beaten", that would have been a much better photo to release with his name rather than "Well, in this photo you can maybe kinda see that the victim was involved in something that may or may not have been a robbery".

    If the cop was injured, I'm sure we would have seen those photos by now.
    Last edited by Sarah K; 08-21-2014 at 01:42 PM.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Video of the entire police interaction involving the guy with the knife getting shot.
    Quite a bit of what the police claimed (knife over head, etc) doesn't match. They certainly could have used a taser. Are they legally justified in shooting though? No idea.
    If I was aggressively approaching 2 police officers with handguns aimed at me and I had a knife in my hand I would certainly expect to get shot....

  4. #94
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    Exactly. Show that evidence right off the bat and I wouldn't have reacted the way I have. I would wager to say many people wouldn't be so mad. Instead, everything I'm seeing and hearing, some of which I shared here, points in a very different and very clear direction.
    Show me a beaten face of Officer Wilson nearly a week later? You'd better be able to prove when said photo was taken.
    Last edited by Swykk; 08-21-2014 at 01:40 PM.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyr View Post
    If I was aggressively approaching 2 police officers with handguns aimed at me and I had a knife in my hand I would certainly expect to get shot....
    My first thought was suicide by cops.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    My first thought was suicide by cops.
    this does appear to be suicide by cops; I guess he was yelling, "kill me, kill me."

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    this does appear to be suicide by cops; I guess he was yelling, "kill me, kill me."
    Yeah, judging by the whole video, he orchestrated the entire thing to lure cops out and get them to shoot him. I'm guessing the Mike Brown thing got him worked up enough to do this. It's like setting yourself on fire in protest.

  8. #98
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    For those who don't know, it's actually a real thing
    Last edited by allegro; 08-21-2014 at 03:17 PM.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post

    I saw autopsy evidence showing that Brown was high on pot
    I don't think they have any test to show that someone was high on weed. They can just demonstrate weed metabolites, which will stay in your blood for well over 4 weeks after smoking. This is why those tests are useless outside of enforcing prohibitionary needs (work drug tests, etc).

    That said, I've seen plenty of people smoke weed and get this... coke-like ego thing going on. I have no idea what happened between Brown and the cop, but for the sake of discussion: Mike Brown looked like he was acting like a douchebag toward the guy in the store he stole from. Then he went and started walking through the middle of the fucking street? I could see a very ego-fueled "nobody can fuck with me" thing going on there as a possibility. That kind of attitude would have certainly influenced his response to a cap that was challenging him. That situation can certainly happen WITHOUT weed too. I see that kind of demeanor very frequently in downtown SF.

    THAT is why I think the cigar theft video may actually be important in court. It speaks toward Brown's demeanor at the time. It's one more piece to the puzzle... the puzzle that wouldn't exist if the altercation was caught on camera.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    THAT is why I think the cigar theft video may actually be important in court. It speaks toward Brown's demeanor at the time. It's one more piece to the puzzle... the puzzle that wouldn't exist if the altercation was caught on camera.
    yeah but I really don't think a judge would allow a jury to see that, because it is still irrelevant. you can have the most fucked-up bad-ass attitude in the world, but that doesn't justify lethal force. a bad attitude doesn't justify lethal force. state-of-mind doesn't justify lethal force. jaywalking doesn't justify lethal force. that cop had to have some really good reason, and so far -- without being assaulted -- he's got nothing. and something that happened earlier that has nothing to do with this instance is irrelevant. if the cops happened to catch Brown while in hot pursuit of him after he robbed the store and they felt threatened or whatever, then that's different. but that's not the case. you can't tie this shooting to that crime.

    young black males in the ghetto tend to dislike white cops. because they're probably constantly harassed by them. Brown's friend didn't call the cigar thing a "theft," he called it a "prank." for all we know, Brown and his friend were very familiar with the store owner, knew him for a long time, we don't know the whole story, this store owner may feel sorry for these guys.

    the sudden revelation that the cop was assaulted is weird. why wasn't that put out there immediately? BEFORE the party store cigar video? makes no sense. the cops are trying to tell a "story," here, because obviously their own story has holes in it.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-21-2014 at 03:33 PM.

  11. #101
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    I was told the story....Brown, a small black child, was giving away bibles door to door when a racist, 7 foot tall white cop, tackled him for no reason at all and shot him 6 times in the head.

    Thats what happened right?

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    yeah but I really don't think a judge would allow a jury to see that, because it is still irrelevant. you can have the most fucked-up bad-ass attitude in the world, but that doesn't justify lethal force. a bad attitude doesn't justify lethal force. state-of-mind doesn't justify lethal force. jaywalking doesn't justify lethal force. that cop had to have some really good reason, and so far -- without being assaulted -- he's got nothing. and something that happened earlier that has nothing to do with this instance is irrelevant. if the cops happened to catch Brown while in hot pursuit of him after he robbed the store, then that's different. but that's not the case. you can't tie this shooting to that crime.

    the sudden revelation that the cop was assaulted is weird. why wasn't that put out there immediately? BEFORE the party store cigar video? makes no sense. the cops are trying to tell a "story," here, because obviously their own story has holes in it.
    But would they allow it if demeanor was an indicator in terms of how likely it is that Brown would have assaulted the cop? I mean, if being high is a court-worthy bit of info, why not other bits of info that point toward their mental state and mood?

    I guess an assault against the cop wont be a point of contention if they have medical records to prove assault now. So this won't really really have any value. It's just something I was wondering about prior to the medical records.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyr View Post
    I was told the story....Brown, a small black child, was giving away bibles door to door when a racist, 7 foot tall white cop, tackled him for no reason at all and shot him 6 times in the head.

    Thats what happened right?
    LOL, you sound like my 75-year-old dad. Seriously.

    Brown could be a gangster hoodlum asshole. But, cops don't have the right to be douchebags, driving through neighborhoods shooting people. Not in black neighborhoods, not in white neighborhoods. That's not the way it works. You have to have a good reason for shooting somebody. If the cop can show he has a good reason for shooting an unarmed guy, then this will all go away.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    But would they allow it if demeanor was an indicator in terms of how likely it is that Brown would have assaulted the cop? I mean, if being high is a court-worthy bit of info, why not other bits of info that point toward their mental state and mood?
    No. Because it's not necessary. You can be smiling and quoting the bible and if you punch a cop, you going down. We don't know if being high is "court-worthy" right now, either. This is shit that the police is leaking to CNN; this ain't shit the judge is allowing on the jury instructions. Understand something: EVERYTHING is allowed as evidence for a Grand Jury. But it ain't like that when if and when it gets to a real jury. The rules of evidence are a LOT more picky when it gets to a real jury.

    The evidence of "demeanor" is going to come from eye witnesses at the actual scene, and from the two cops, when and if this goes to a trial (if this cop is indicted by a Grand Jury).
    Last edited by allegro; 08-21-2014 at 03:42 PM.

  15. #105
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    And the discrediting of key witnesses continues:

    Dorian Johnson has an open warrant and previously filed a false police report.
    http://www.abc17news.com/news/key-wi...-city/27624066

  16. #106
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    The open warrant doesn't matter, he's still a witness. The false police report could be a problem at Trial, if there is one.

    but, really, he was always a shitty witness, anyway. he was never a star witness. seriously, did anybody think he was? he was Brown's FRIEND. do you expect he would say anything that wasn't defending his friend? totally unreliable witness.

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    LOL, you sound like my 75-year-old dad. Seriously.

    Brown could be a gangster hoodlum asshole. But, cops don't have the right to be douchebags, driving through neighborhoods shooting people. Not in black neighborhoods, not in white neighborhoods. That's not the way it works. You have to have a good reason for shooting somebody. If the cop can show he has a good reason for shooting an unarmed guy, then this will all go away.
    Where the hell are cops driving around neighborhoods shooting people for no reason? This is completely ridiculous....A black woman can murder a white kid and burn his body with a blow torch and its not news....400 black people can murder two white kids at a McDonalds and it gets buried. Last time I went to a concert there were a bunch of black kids yelling racial slurs at all the white people...Yet every time a black person gets shot by a white person its national headlines.

    check out this video before you reply to me. This country is fucked up beyond repair....

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  20. #110
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    Jesus fucking christ.

  21. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyr View Post
    What is your point? We could indicate literally thousands of these in this country, including children. Thousands of children missing and murdered.

    But we are narrowing this topic to the militarization of the police force.

    Have you actually READ this thread? Did you read the the links re the stories re the old white 95-year-old guy in the nursing home killed by a cop wielding a bean bag gun? I'm guessing not.

    Would you like us to read the stories aloud to you?

  22. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyr View Post
    Last time I went to a concert there were a bunch of black kids yelling racial slurs at all the white people...

    This bit did make me laugh. But you just sound ridiculous during the rest of it. It's like when Tony linked to his racist site on facebook and was like BUT THEY HAVE SOME VALID POINTS. No.

    It's not "every time a black person gets shot by a white person".

    It's when people who have power over others abuse that power. It is when people who are supposed to make calm, rational decisions lose their cool and make the wrong choices. It is when cops are killing people.

    I can also find you a million stories of people being murdered by other people. Doesn't matter.

  23. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyr View Post
    Where the hell are cops driving around neighborhoods shooting people for no reason?
    Again, you're not reading this entire thread, you're not reading the linked articles, you haven't read the discussions, you're cherry picking.

    Not a peep from the old guy; he's dead, shot by a cop with a bean bag gun.


    As linked earlier in this thread, that you didn't bother reading:

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...t-police-taser
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...beanbag-rounds
    Last edited by allegro; 08-21-2014 at 04:28 PM.

  24. #114
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    The 95 year old guy sucks but I hardly see an epidemic of cops going around randomly shooting people.

  25. #115
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    @Satyr - you are completely missing the point of race here. No doubt, there are plenty of people (if not the majority) who are on both sides making the same mistake as you... but don't let it distract you from the foundation.

    Rand Paul outlines the race issue very VERY well: http://time.com/3111474/rand-paul-ferguson-police/ It's something that impacts everyone, but it impacts people of color disproportionately.


    And you should really stop to think about this. Rand Paul has been called racist by many of the democrats. Yet, he is the only politician to properly convey the situation and provide solutions. How insane is it that a GOP candidate leans more left on a huge list of social topics than any democrat who could land in the white house next election? Drug War, Police militarization, Wall Street, NSA, War on Terror, etc. There are plenty of Bush/Obama era republicans (and democrats) who are on the wrong side of this, but I'd urge you to reassess your position. Don't let the race-baiters on either side of the debate blind you to the reality.

  26. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyr View Post
    The 95 year old guy sucks but I hardly see an epidemic of cops going around randomly shooting people.
    Nobody here EVER said "randomly." Nobody. You said that. Nobody here said that. (Although, links provided said 419 people were killed by cops in 2013. See Timinator's post + see this.) Again, you are not reading this thread. Nobody is ignorantly playing the race card, here. We aren't that stupid. We are discussing all legal angles, intelligently. Again, if you really want to join the discussion, you should read the entire thread and the links. The many articles posted illustrate the issues, here, and we have discussed those articles. Most of those articles have illustrated how we got here, and propose how we fix it. You can't just cherry-pick one sentence in one post that was in response to somebody else and use it to push your own agenda and not come across as somebody who doesn't know how to debate.

    Here are some of the links that we have read and discussed:

    http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2014...ilitary/87163/
    http://time.com/3111474/rand-paul-fe...medium=twitter
    http://www.steynonline.com/6524/cigars-but-not-close
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5693020.html
    http://m.theatlantic.com/national/ar...dition/378883/
    http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local...bery/14118769/
    http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/08...source-sa.html
    http://online.wsj.com/articles/what-...ras-1408320244
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_v._Connor


    Up until the point where you came in, we had kept it pretty civil in here; we'd actually managed to keep it to legal aspects and we weighed the different sides of the stories from all sides. You were the first to come in with the race molotov troll cocktail.

    And at this point, I suggest that we all ignore this aspect of it and not take the bait and keep this civil and intelligent.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    How insane is it that a GOP candidate leans more left on a huge list of social topics than any democrat who could land in the white house next election? Drug War, Police militarization, Wall Street, NSA, War on Terror, etc.
    I dunno, the GOP has been leaning toward Libertarianism for a while, and Libertarianism is clearly left-leaning social-wise and less-government wise. The Democratic party is actually more conservative than Eisenhower Republicans at this point. But, we probably shouldn't go all political in here, eh?
    Last edited by allegro; 08-21-2014 at 05:25 PM.

  27. #117
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    I'd also point out that protesters in Ferguson have been saying "Fuck Al Sharpton and Obama ain't changed shit"


    and Jesse Jackson was booed off stage. Not everyone is wrapped into the race-baiting that you see in all areas of big media.

  28. #118
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    I saw an old black dude walk past a CNN cameras and Anderson Cooper last night and he had a sign that said "Go shoot ISIS; leave us alone" and he stopped and kind of smirked. And it was funny. But it was true, LOL.

  29. #119
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    Oh, hey @Swykk , you'll love this: http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/13/ho...am-sees-itself

    the video is awesome, we should ask for a tank from Uncle Santa Sam for Christmas

  30. #120
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    Agree about keeping political party talk to a minimum, even though politics plays a HUGE rule in this. I'm hoping it connects with Satyr in a way that other approaches weren't. His topic does weigh heavily on tribalism after all. Just have to pivot that tribalism in a new way!

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