Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 6 7 8
Results 211 to 228 of 228

Thread: Europe lurches to the Right

  1. #211
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    3,876
    Mentioned
    220 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    you poor bastards. celebrating your joy because you confuse enjoyment in Le Pen losing with enjoyment in "winning" an establishment banker as your leader :/
    It's amazing you get wifi under that bridge since you're such a fucking troll

  2. #212
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    san fransisco
    Posts
    830
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    read a headline in a french magazine said "France don't trump yourself"made me smile
    -Louie

  3. #213
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    London
    Posts
    478
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    I dont think there is much enthusiasm for Macron...huge amount abstained from voting...most can see he is a tool. Not much will change. Its basically more of the same. People just see it as the least-worst-option.
    I dont see anything in him that is much different to the current leader Francoise Hollande.
    He wont dare question the EU on anything, despite the fact there are gaping holes in the system.

    Its just he was up against Marine Le-Pen...the Front National has such a toxic legacy in France....
    Also she was NO Donald Trump terrible public speaker...she had none of Trumps machevillian ability to draw people in....

    Also i cant imagine Nigel Farage from UKIP winning an election in the UK either...

    Had it been someone of the rightwing without out the National Front baggage i reckon they could have won..i thought Francis Fillon was going to win..but the corruption scandal brought him down.

  4. #214
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    3,876
    Mentioned
    220 Post(s)
    More of the same vs. highly-corrosive and willfully destructive bigotry-promoting fascism-fetishizing is a pretty clear fight. Whine about a lack of further progress when you don't have somebody trying to blow it all up. A sense of perspective goes a long way and this idea that people shouldn't be thrilled that someone who isn't a racist fuckhead isn't going to be in a charge of a major first world nation when their main opponent claimed that Jews shouldn't be allowed to weare yamulkes in public is babyish and stupid. It makes people seem like smug and pseudointellectual downtalkers rather than people having a conversation.

    To say "It's great that Le Pen has been defeated and I hope that in the future competition is less between centrists and right-wing extremists and more between left-wing candidates and centrists" is reasonable. To act like everyone happy a centrist beat out a lunatic is somehow stupid or naive just makes you look like a tool.

  5. #215
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,963
    Mentioned
    159 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    I dont think there is much enthusiasm for Macron...huge amount abstained from voting...most can see he is a tool. Not much will change. Its basically more of the same. People just see it as the least-worst-option.
    The turnout hasn't been this low in decades. I don't know if the official numbers exist yet, but I was seeing some estimates saying as far back as ~50 years.


    It's amazing that everyone can see the recurring pattern of Russian interference and become outraged, but the pattern of the candidates that citizens are forced to choose between...? nah, its not a conspiracy. that's just "how it is" guys! Nevermind the fact that it occurs in different countries with different voting systems and different political landscapes...

  6. #216
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ontari-ari-ario
    Posts
    2,986
    Mentioned
    123 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    The turnout hasn't been this low in decades. I don't know if the official numbers exist yet, but I was seeing some estimates saying as far back as ~50 years.


    It's amazing that everyone can see the recurring pattern of Russian interference and become outraged, but the pattern of the candidates that citizens are forced to choose between...? nah, its not a conspiracy. that's just "how it is" guys! Nevermind the fact that it occurs in different countries with different voting systems and different political landscapes...
    The number I saw for the turnout in France is 74%; and since we're comparing global patterns against the USA, that is still 10% more French votes per capita than turned out for America's election of Obama in 2008 (which was the highest turnout in the USA for decades). Regarding your second point; this was the final round of a runoff ballot, where the options had already fallen away to the two front runners only. So the 'pattern' here that you hate is... what exactly? Having to choose?

  7. #217
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,963
    Mentioned
    159 Post(s)
    http://i.imgur.com/V0YGfgZ.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    The number I saw for the turnout in France is 74%; and since we're comparing global patterns against the USA, that is still 10% more French votes per capita than turned out for America's election of Obama in 2008 (which was the highest turnout in the USA for decades).
    This doesn't say anything about trends for France, which was what I was talking about. If voter turnout ends up being lower than it has ever been in the last X decades, that says something.


    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    Regarding your second point; this was the final round of a runoff ballot, where the options had already fallen away to the two front runners only. So the 'pattern' here that you hate is... what exactly? Having to choose?
    And the US had primaries with a bunch of candidates. It doesn't matter, and thats the point i was making: the end "choice" being between an establishment candidate who is deep with the banks vs a racist nationalist. Its a theme that keeps recurring in multiple countries despite different systems and different politics.



    This graffiti distills it quite nicely.

  8. #218
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ontari-ari-ario
    Posts
    2,986
    Mentioned
    123 Post(s)
    Primaries aren't comparable to a general runoff. The majority of French voters chose those two candidates over everyone else, and then chose between them. In that scenario, moderate status-quo centrism wins, and I'm not jumping for joy about it, but I totally understand why and it's not because banks rule everything.

  9. #219
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,963
    Mentioned
    159 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    Primaries aren't comparable to a general runoff.
    thats the point!
    i'm not sure how many ways I can say "different systems producing similar results"

  10. #220
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Cardiff, Wales
    Posts
    717
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    As we are still part of europe right now, the current exit polls point to a hung parliament in the UK.
    A slight shudder to the left.. but I'm not getting my hopes up.

  11. #221
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ontari-ari-ario
    Posts
    2,986
    Mentioned
    123 Post(s)
    Hung parliaments are my jam.

  12. #222
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Cardiff, Wales
    Posts
    717
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Hey-oh! Well that was a turn up for the books! A well hung parliament.
    While I should cite my sources other than Twitter, word on the street is there was a massive youth / under 25 turn out, and would you look at that, they don't like the Conservatives nor the idea of 5 more years...
    In liberal/Labour terms, this was pretty much the best result they could hope for... Wonder what happens next? Don't want to get my hopes up again...

  13. #223
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,788
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by liquidcalm View Post
    Hey-oh! Well that was a turn up for the books! A well hung parliament.
    While I should cite my sources other than Twitter, word on the street is there was a massive youth / under 25 turn out, and would you look at that, they don't like the Conservatives nor the idea of 5 more years...
    In liberal/Labour terms, this was pretty much the best result they could hope for... Wonder what happens next? Don't want to get my hopes up again...
    In the meantime article 50 has been triggered, now we've already lost 3 months and the Tories will have another leadership contest, more dithering. Can't we just give up brexit as a bad job? I honestly don't think people gung ho for brexit realised how shit our politicians are.

    Although UKIP no seats, hah so there is a bright side

  14. #224
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Donegal, Ireland
    Posts
    2,821
    Mentioned
    82 Post(s)
    Coalition with the DUP. This is BAD.

  15. #225
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Portsmouth, UK
    Posts
    230
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Very much a day of ups and downs. Personally I'm thrilled to see how successful Labour and Corbyn have been, and I'm particularly happy that my home constituency has a Labour MP for the first time ever. No lurching to the right there!

    But yes, a Tory deal with DUP is not a positive step. I was hoping there would be enough for a Labour / SNP / Lib Dem coalition, but I guess that's not happening now. I'm very much against 'Brexit' (ughh), but if it does have to happen I'd like to see sensible cross-party negotiations that can lead to a reasonably positive outcome. What are the chances of that though?

    Great to see UKIP effectively finished, and interesting to see SNP losing out quite badly - I still don't know what happened there.

    What I'm really happy about though is seeing the right wing press failing so miserably to get their side in a majority, despite huge amounts of scaremongering against Corbyn. Sadly we have to include the BBC in that, and not just Murdoch and friends. Maybe we'll see some lessons learned, even if we are still dealing with a difficult outcome. The stories of high turnouts across the country, with particular focus on the engagement of 18-25 year olds, is also very positive.

  16. #226
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    London
    Posts
    478
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    I thought the weirdest thing about the results which not many have mentioned in the media was seeing the Conservatives resurrected in Scotland...best for them in Scotland since 1983.
    This was unimaginable 10 years ago..a tory was seen as subhuman..justvshows the lengths people are willing to go to avoid a second referendum. SNP would do so much better. If they stopped focusing on independence and only on devolved power.
    i can see why Labour gained ground...although i think Corbyns vision is too utopian and cant stand his team around him he is 100 percent genuine and really got people excited...
    i was amazed at how Robotic and boring and uninspiring Theresa May was...she was a worse campaigner than Hillary Clinton.

  17. #227
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Cardiff, Wales
    Posts
    717
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    yup... saw that coalition happening once the last results were coming in. Dreadful how they cling in there by jumping into bed with some of the most hateful MPs. now at the very least, the opposition is in a position to oppose, its not great, but it doesn't take much for this government to fail at pushing bills, now if only that ol proportional representation thing had come in... Labour, LD, SNP, PC together outnumber the right wing parties in terms of votes, thats something to be proud of.

  18. #228
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    2,607
    Mentioned
    88 Post(s)
    I guess this could have gone a lot worse. May has hobbled herself unnecessarily, and Labour has seen a surge of support.
    Makes me think of Bernie Sanders a bit: popular passion, a surge of enthusiasm, ultimately lost, conservatives still in power.
    Conservatives still have a majority, they are still the biggest party in the UK by 57 seats. People are still voting to the right in these times of economic turbulence.

Posting Permissions