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  1. #1471
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    A few things:

    1 - Is what you described actually assault if he didn't make any physical contact?
    Yes, it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    2 - Why is every accusation pertaining to anything sexually being treated with equal career-ending punishment? Is it fair to the guy who jerked off in a room to be treated the same as the guy who raped multiple people? Is it fair to the victims of the guy who raped multiple people that their attacker's punishment only matches what a masturbator gets?
    It's not; yes it is; no it's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    3 - Further questioning about the puritanical responses of late. The vast majority of good art comes from very flawed and damaged individuals. Are we really going to ditch the art of every person found to to do anything sexually unacceptable? Would we prefer an artless world for one where we can pretend the famous people are pure?
    No but I'd prefer artists stop sexually assaulting people and face just reckoning for it, anyway hope that helps.

  2. #1472
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    Quote Originally Posted by october_midnight View Post
    Not exactly new news he's a scumbag.

  3. #1473
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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post

    It's not; yes it is; no it's not.
    There is a pretty obvious inconsistency in your view here. It demonstrates you don't care about actual justice, or you haven't taken the time to think about it. Not quite the depth I was hoping for, but whatever.
    Are you going to stop consuming the art from every artist who is accused of sexual assault anytime within their past? Or do you have some line you draw in which some situations are allowable enough for you to keep watch/listening/etc.?


    PS - I am listening to Jimi Hendrix right now.
    Last edited by DigitalChaos; 11-09-2017 at 01:22 PM.

  4. #1474
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    Just had to come in to this thread and start dropping turds around here too, huh? smh

  5. #1475
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    There is a pretty obvious inconsistency in your view here. It demonstrates you don't care about actual justice, or you haven't taken the time to think about it. Not quite the depth I was hoping for, but whatever.
    Are you going to stop consuming the art from every artist who is accused of sexual assault anytime within their past? Or do you have some line you draw in which some situations are allowable enough for you to keep watch/listening/etc.?
    I have thought about this a great deal, actually. I'm not throwing away and ceasing to consume art any more than I'm going to stop living in the country that perpetrated cultural genocide against Indigenous people by force of law. Justice should be meted to protect the fabric of a just society rather than punish in some arbitrary proportion according to a scale of offense. The legal system doesn't do this often enough.

  6. #1476
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    A few things:

    1 - Is what you described actually assault if he didn't make any physical contact?

    2 - Why is every accusation pertaining to anything sexually being treated with equal career-ending punishment? Is it fair to the guy who jerked off in a room to be treated the same as the guy who raped multiple people? Is it fair to the victims of the guy who raped multiple people that their attacker's punishment only matches what a masturbator gets?

    3 - Further questioning about the puritanical responses of late. The vast majority of good art comes from very flawed and damaged individuals. Are we really going to ditch the art of every person found to to do anything sexually unacceptable? Would we prefer an artless world for one where we can pretend the famous people are pure? It's not like you are going to eradicate this shit from humanity in any way. Humans are shit.

    I agree that, if there are legit victims, then the perpetrator should receive whatever consequences anyone, of any class, would receive for the same crime. But we should at least address the uncomfortable topics above, especially when all this is playing out in the court of public opinion.
    Wait. When it's about beloved Louie, we should suddenly take a step back?

    By all means, video yourself while asking these questions to the "not-victims". "So when he locked the door and started masturbating in front of you, was it that bad? I mean, he didn't touch you, so technically..."

    Yes, they deserve to be eradicated from the scene.

  7. #1477
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    ^ IDGAF about Louis CK. I specifically chose him for a reason though, and it's that others do care. They are much more likely to take a step back and think about something instead of acting emotionally.

  8. #1478
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    ^ IDGAF about Louis CK. I specifically chose him for a reason though, and it's that others do care. They are much more likely to take a step back and think about something instead of acting emotionally.
    I think he's particularly relevant because this movie he's made is basically about sexual assault. Also, he funded it with money directly from people who supported his last project and sent us all an e-mail gloating about it (the movie, that is, and funding it — not gloating about being accused of anything, obviously).
    Last edited by botley; 11-09-2017 at 01:55 PM.

  9. #1479
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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    I think he's particularly relevant because this movie he's made is basically about sexual assault. Also, he funded it with money directly from people who supported his last project and sent us all an e-mail gloating about it.
    Dude wtf? Well, I won't deny that there is some serious poetry in the timing here.

    But my goal was to hit a soft spot and see how much people are willing to discuss the long term impacts, or if acting short term is the primary instinct.

  10. #1480
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    Is it a weird feeling though? This self-aggrandizing need to just start internet arguments? Seems weird to me.

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  12. #1482
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Is what you described actually assault if he didn't make any physical contact? Is it fair to the guy who jerked off in a room to be treated the same as the guy who raped multiple people? k
    I think, legally, the above is sexual harassment if it doesn't involve a minor, although each state's laws are different regarding sexual assault, there is no national law. But, YES, sexual harassment is still pretty fucked up.

    Can you imagine if your wife went to work and her boss cornered her in a room and jacked off in front of her, even if it wasn't ON her it's just fucked up and wrong and unacceptable and possibly illegal depending on the state's laws re indecent exposure even if the victim isn't a minor, and certainly grounds for being fired, sued, maligned, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    But my goal was to hit a soft spot and see how much people are willing to discuss the long term impacts, or if acting short term is the primary instinct.
    Do you realize that this stuff has actually HAPPENED TO many of us? And this soft spot is also known as a "trigger?" So, really, what you are doing re this subject could actually cause people emotional harm by making this seem like, hey, dude, wtf, who cares?
    Last edited by allegro; 11-09-2017 at 02:11 PM.

  13. #1483
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Dude wtf? Well, I won't deny that there is some serious poetry in the timing here.

    But my goal was to hit a soft spot and see how much people are willing to discuss the long term impacts, or if acting short term is the primary instinct.
    I think there is a very clear line that separates what goes and what doesn't. Ie. I don't care if a celebrity is the worst husband and father on Earth, because legally and even humanly speaking, you can do that. People will cheat one another and parents will abandon their children; it's sad, but it happens. Same thing with stuff like scientology. I think Tom Cruise is a nutjob, but I'm not religious to begin with, so I couldn't care less. Yes, they kidnap some people, while the bishops sexually assault children. Potato, potato; as long as someone is not directly involved in this just spreading the message of some greater good, then I say whatever.

    But repeated sexual offenders are on some other, animalistic level. I don't want to distinct between someone who is "just" an offender and did not assault anyone, and I don't want to live in a world where there is a difference, except legally speaking. Also, I'd rather someone touch my crotch against my will than lock me up and force me to do his/her thing. Get these assholes out, even if it's a hypocrite move, because there are plenty others who are guilty just as much, we just don't know it (yet), but that is no excuse for those who are already caught redhanded.

    I think the bar is already pretty damn low, so if you can't even live your life without being a disgusting piece of shit, then I feel no remorse if your career and life is ruined as fast as a heartbeat.

    One grey area is domestic violence. We could talk about it, but hitting your spouse is nowhere near the level of sexually forcing yourself onto someone else.

  14. #1484
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    I think, legally, the above is sexual harassment if it doesn't involve a minor, although each state's laws are different regarding sexual assault, there is no national law. But, YES, sexual harassment is still pretty fucked up.
    And Louis is a powerful rich man with access to people who can easily defend him against legal action. There's not going to be ANY criminal proceeding, likely no civil suit either, even though this was workplace-related misconduct. All we have is public shaming.

  15. #1485
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    Quote Originally Posted by october_midnight View Post
    What a class guy! He even asked the women if it was okay. Sure, he didn't care about the yes or no, but still.

    Does this guy want to be caught btw? Maybe I'm overthinking it, but in hindsight, it's like he wishes someone would bash his head into a wall and tell him what a sick jerk he is. Either way, I hope no one will ride the "oh, poor guy has issues!!" train. There is professional help and there are a bunch of other, quasi normal way to live down your fetishes, especially if you are rich as hell.

  16. #1486
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    Yup. Fuck him. He's a sexual predator. Shame away. I hope his career is destroyed.

  17. #1487
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    Agreed. What a bummer.

  18. #1488
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    And this soft spot is also known as a "trigger?"
    context. "soft spot" was in reference to people being sympathetic to Louis. It was an extension of the post i made directly above it: http://www.echoingthesound.org/commu...886#post384886

    and no, im not the type who needs to have a wife/daughter/etc to understand what is or isn't wrong in context to women, so the imagining doesn't change anything for me. But i never did state my view or even personal experiences. I asked questions. It's good to see the responses and opinions. Despite what @october_midnight is trying to say, there is no "argument" unfolding at all. It's people responding with their perspective.
    Last edited by DigitalChaos; 11-09-2017 at 02:54 PM.

  19. #1489
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    A few things:

    1 - Is what you described actually assault if he didn't make any physical contact?

    2 - Why is every accusation pertaining to anything sexually being treated with equal career-ending punishment? Is it fair to the guy who jerked off in a room to be treated the same as the guy who raped multiple people? Is it fair to the victims of the guy who raped multiple people that their attacker's punishment only matches what a masturbator gets?

    3 - Further questioning about the puritanical responses of late. The vast majority of good art comes from very flawed and damaged individuals. Are we really going to ditch the art of every person found to to do anything sexually unacceptable? Would we prefer an artless world for one where we can pretend the famous people are pure? It's not like you are going to eradicate this shit from humanity in any way. Humans are shit.

    I agree that, if there are legit victims, then the perpetrator should receive whatever consequences anyone, of any class, would receive for the same crime. But we should at least address the uncomfortable topics above, especially when all this is playing out in the court of public opinion.
    Cornering two women in a room, taking out your penis, and then masturbating in front of them without letting them leave is SEXUAL. ASSAULT.

    I liked Louis C.K.

    Fuck Louis C.K.

  20. #1490
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    It just seems that he's some masturbation fetish weirdo and they were free to leave the moment he dropped his pants, without any repercussions.

    I'm not defending him, he's definitely a shit-bag, but this is nowhere near Harvey/Spacey level misconduct.

  21. #1491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximilian View Post
    It just seems that he's some masturbation fetish weirdo and they were free to leave the moment he dropped his pants, without any repercussions.
    Other than the multiple times the article mentioned him physically blocking the exit so no one could leave...yes, that's correct?

  22. #1492
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    Even if he DIDN'T, you don't do something sexual to or in front of another person if they don't consent. Period. PERIOD.

  23. #1493
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    Quote Originally Posted by october_midnight View Post
    Other than the multiple times the article mentioned him physically blocking the exit so no one could leave...yes, that's correct?
    Missed that, thanks.

  24. #1494
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    Wasn't trying to be an ass, sorry if it sounded snarky, but theruiner is right...like I said in another thread...2017 seems like whomever did whatever, they know that this day and age we no longer have the ability to say 'fuck _______ i'm done being a fan' without hearing 'well actually...' (again, not implying you).

    I don't care if it was his personal assistant or the pizza delivery guy. Fuck Louis CK lol.

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  26. #1496
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Holy shit, couldn't watch it through the end. This must've given him some extreme high, because even my hands were sweating just by imagining myself in his place.

  27. #1497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volband View Post
    Holy shit, couldn't watch it through the end. This must've given him some extreme high, because even my hands were sweating just by imagining myself in his place.
    yeah... its interesting watching some of his bits in retrospect. I can only imagine what people "who knew" thought of his jokes. His PR team seems to be scrubbing youtube really fast right now.

    There is also this bit that I remember. My wife and I were watching the segment with big wtf-faces. I remember he asking wtf the deal with it was and how much truth there was. My answer was basically: well, listen to everyone laughing. That kind of comedy only works when the audience feels it exposing an awkward truth that they are in on. So, yeah, there are probably a lot of people like this.

    I think this was the last time I had interest in watching his work, actually.



  28. #1498
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    I am really shocked about Sheen and Haim.

  29. #1499
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    and no, im not the type who needs to have a wife/daughter/etc to understand what is or isn't wrong in context to women, so the imagining doesn't change anything for me. =
    that's a really good point.

    Re sexual assault vs sexual harassment, the below is from FindLaw (again, each state defines these things completely different, each state has a entire LIBRARY full of its own criminal laws):

    http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal...-exposure.html

    http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal...-overview.html

    Here are the actual laws here in Illinois: http://ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilc...eqEnd=21000000

    (720 ILCS 5/11-30) (was 720 ILCS 5/11-9)
    Sec. 11-30. Public indecency.
    (a) Any person of the age of 17 years and upwards who performs any of the following acts in a public place commits a public indecency:
    (1) An act of sexual penetration or sexual conduct; or
    (2) A lewd exposure of the body done with intent to arouse or to satisfy the sexual desire of the person.
    Breast-feeding of infants is not an act of public indecency.
    (b) "Public place" for purposes of this Section means any place where the conduct may reasonably be expected to be viewed by others.
    (c) Sentence.
    Public indecency is a Class A misdemeanor. A person convicted of a third or subsequent violation for public indecency is guilty of a Class 4 felony. Public indecency is a Class 4 felony if committed by a person 18 years of age or older who is on or within 500 feet of elementary or secondary school grounds when children are present on the grounds.
    (Source: P.A. 96-1098, eff. 1-1-11; 96-1551, eff. 7-1-11.)

    If this all is going to lead to some people being falsely accused, then it's reached some weird level of "wow, this sure gets us a lot of publicity" levels, which is just sad. We're doomed.

    But, this is all shaking out to be in two categories: (a) Harassing assholes and (b) criminal assaulters and predators
    Last edited by allegro; 11-09-2017 at 04:24 PM.

  30. #1500
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    Man this sucks if it starts in on the fake accusers.
    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    that's a really good point.

    Re sexual assault vs sexual harassment, the below is from FindLaw (again, each state defines these things completely different, each state has a entire LIBRARY full of its own criminal laws):

    http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal...-exposure.html

    http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal...-overview.html

    Here are the actual laws here in Illinois: http://ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilc...eqEnd=21000000




    If this all is going to lead to some people being falsely accused, then it's reached some weird level of "wow, this sure gets us a lot of publicity" levels, which is just sad. We're doomed.

    But, this is all shaking out to be in two categories (even the ILLINOIS CONGRESS is requiring legislators to take the Sexual Harassment course): (a) Harassing assholes and (b) criminal assaulters and predators

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