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Thread: The Smashing Pumpkins

  1. #2161
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    Maybe I'm just incredibly naïve, but if Billy is expecting/wanting this to be as big as something like the GNR reunion, he's probably going to have another thing coming. For one, it's not even a full reunion (granted, neither was GNR for what it's worth). Unless this whole mess with D'arcy is nothing more than fake news and a clever way to get people talking leading up to the announcement. But even if it were a full reunion, it's really just symbolic, yeah? Were they technically a "better" live band with the original lineup?

  2. #2162
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    Holy...shit’s getting nasty.

  3. #2163
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    Quote Originally Posted by halo eighteen View Post
    Maybe I'm just incredibly naïve, but if Billy is expecting/wanting this to be as big as something like the GNR reunion, he's probably going to have another thing coming. For one, it's not even a full reunion (granted, neither was GNR for what it's worth). Unless this whole mess with D'arcy is nothing more than fake news and a clever way to get people talking leading up to the announcement. But even if it were a full reunion, it's really just symbolic, yeah? Were they technically a "better" live band with the original lineup?
    They were a better EVERYTHING with the original lineup. Billy's music has gone to shit after losing all the original members. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't sound like Smashing Pumpkins without them. Whether they were actually involved in certain album recordings or not, the four of them together had an influence on the music whether Billy likes it or not. He needs them because he has been subpar with his hired help. Sadly it seems he has a bunch of yes men surrounding him now.

  4. #2164
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    As Flood said, he had not heard a greater sounding band than when they were together in a room during MCIS.

    (I can't find that article!)

  5. #2165
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    They were a better EVERYTHING with the original lineup. Billy's music has gone to shit after losing all the original members. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't sound like Smashing Pumpkins without them. Whether they were actually involved in certain album recordings or not, the four of them together had an influence on the music whether Billy likes it or not. He needs them because he has been subpar with his hired help. Sadly it seems he has a bunch of yes men surrounding him now.
    Jimmy was absent from Adore and fan favorite song "Eye" and those still sounded 100% like Smashing Pumpkins. Most (if not all) of the bass parts on Siamese Dream were played by Billy and that album set the benchmark for sounding like SP. She also apparently had very little involvement on Machina as well and that still sounds like SP. I may be alone on this one, but I even felt that Oceania successfully captured some of the old SP feel that other newer releases failed to achieve. I certainly agree that it would be better with her involvement (unless they fight the whole time), but what I'm trying to say is that they were able to make great music that sounded like Smashing Pumpkins without Jimmy and D'arcy in the past. I believe they could do it again. If Billy and D'arcy are fighting the whole time, that negative atmosphere might only yield poor studio takes and awkward live performances anyway. Also, I think people forget that she's the only member of the band that ever quit and her quitting kind of led to them breaking up. It's a shame either way, but I don't think this is all Billy's fault (although, yes, he can definitely be an asshole) and I'm hopeful that the new music can still be great.
    Last edited by sonic_discord; 02-12-2018 at 02:39 PM.

  6. #2166
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    Lmfao this "reunion" is a joke from the word go, as only William Patrick Corgan can. Good for D'arcy revealing this sham for the narcissistic jackoff he is and has always been. Dude has some nerve lambasting bands like Soundgarden for "cash-in reunions" and then falling on his face with his before a fucking date has even been announced. Gloss this up with James and Rick Rubin all you want, but this is still "the WPC show" run by an aloof, out of touch egomaniac.

    I'll gladly pick up a new reissue of Siamese Dream (second-hand, mind you), but that and the long-lost Machina reissue is the only money I'll ever sink into this goof's work from here on out. lol what a joke..

  7. #2167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prettybrokenspiral View Post
    Lmfao this "reunion" is a joke from the word go, as only William Patrick Corgan can. Good for D'arcy revealing this sham for the narcissistic jackoff he is and has always been. Dude has some nerve lambasting bands like Soundgarden for "cash-in reunions" and then falling on his face with his before a fucking date has even been announced. Gloss this up with James and Rick Rubin all you want, but this is still "the WPC show" run by an aloof, out of touch egomaniac.

    I'll gladly pick up a new reissue of Siamese Dream (second-hand, mind you), but that and the long-lost Machina reissue is the only money I'll ever sink into this goof's work from here on out. lol what a joke..
    Yeah, pisses me off we still have yet to get the Machina reissue. I have all of the reissues and they're amazing. The Mellon Collie/Aeroplane Flies High sets are my fave because they show what amazing period this was for the band. There's still plenty of material that was left off these massive sets.

    This whole incident wouldn't be so bad if Billy just didn't lead D'arcy on and make a big deal in the press that they were talking again. It's just sad become this could have been an amazing moment in music history, much bigger than the GNR reunion, but Billy's douchey behavior strikes again. You can't be talking in the press about how you're talking and getting along with D'arcy and then fuck her over behind the scenes. Even if Billy, James, and Jimmy deliver a good album, it is all tainted in my eyes.

    D'arcy left during Machina, huh? Maybe that is why it's not exactly their strongest album with the original members still together. She helped Billy cut the fat. A double Machina would have been bloated, but I would like to hear it as an reissue with additional material. But it wouldn't have worked at the time as a doubles album. There is an amazing single disc album spread across Machina I and II. But Machina is toward the bottom of my top albums involving original members.

  8. #2168
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    You could tell tensions were high on the Arising Tour (the club tour right before Machina was released). She was obviously pissed about something, and I assume it was the concept that Billy was propsing for the album, along with sound choices etc.

    Sharon Osbourne also dropped Corgan because of his concept...especially for the tour.

  9. #2169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodiak33 View Post
    Didn't Flood confirm she was a great editor?
    I do remember a quote like that, yeah. IIRC he basically described them as an incredible unit when they were all on the same page.

    Meanwhile Bill has referred to D'Arcy in a private chat as "out of her mind".

    If we actually have tuned in for a 5-day countdown, have got ice cream vans running around, and are looking at billboard advertisements with old song lyrics - all for the purpose of hyping up one song with 3/4 of the original members present - I'm flabbergasted. It would make Bill taking out a Chicago Sun-Times page announcing how he wanted his band back look positively banal by comparison.

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  11. #2171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
    Meanwhile Bill has referred to D'Arcy in a private chat as "out of her mind".
    Was he just conversing with a fan or who is the other person?
    If we actually have tuned in for a 5-day countdown, have got ice cream vans running around, and are looking at billboard advertisements with old song lyrics - all for the purpose of hyping up one song with 3/4 of the original members present - I'm flabbergasted. It would make Bill taking out a Chicago Sun-Times page announcing how he wanted his band back look positively banal by comparison.
    I agree with that. One song would be stupid unless it was the most amazing fucking song they've recorded since MCIS.

  12. #2172
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    The band has issued a statement addressing D'arcy's claims.

    "In reuniting The Smashing Pumpkins, the band's dedication remains to its fans and its music. To that, James Iha, Jimmy Chamberlin, and William Corgan haven't played a show with D'arcy Wretzky for over 18 years. But it's not for a lack of trying. For despite reports, Ms. Wretzky has repeatedly been invited out to play with the group, participate in demo sessions, or at the very least, meet face-to-face, and in each and every instance she always deferred. We wish her all the best, and look forward to reconnecting with you all very soon."

  13. #2173
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonic_discord View Post
    The band has issued a statement addressing D'arcy's claims.

    "In reuniting The Smashing Pumpkins, the band's dedication remains to its fans and its music. To that, James Iha, Jimmy Chamberlin, and William Corgan haven't played a show with D'arcy Wretzky for over 18 years. But it's not for a lack of trying. For despite reports, Ms. Wretzky has repeatedly been invited out to play with the group, participate in demo sessions, or at the very least, meet face-to-face, and in each and every instance she always deferred. We wish her all the best, and look forward to reconnecting with you all very soon."

  14. #2174
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    Right. I call bullshit, and nobody else out there seems fooled by it either, because it smacks of WPC damage control now that D'arcy is outing the band.

    First, it's "we all agreed that nobody wants you back in the band", and now suddenly it's "Well, she was invited for everything, but always said no.."

    BillCo sure is bad at this lying stuff. Why would D'arcy refuse to rejoin an ensemble she's been known to have an interest in rejoining for years now, and then go insofar as to provide text messages showing what a prick BillCo is. Like we needed any more proof..

    It's not a reunion without the full band. Just like it wasn't the real Black Sabbath when Sharon Osbourne ran off Bill Ward. Same thing here..

  15. #2175
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    I think Billy showed his true colors when he used the reissues to talk shit about the band. He involved none of the, which I found to be horseshit. Then to act like a little cunt writing cunty things. This reunion debacle is pure Billy and his statement makes zero sense in regards to the timeline of events. Just him trying to save his own ass.

  16. #2176
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    There's a claim that a source close to D'Arcy says Billy and James tried to get her back for months and it didn't work out because she's just not in the head space for it anymore.

    I desperately need to believe this, because I can't compute them all shutting her out - especially not James - unless there was a goddamned good reason. It's behavior too shitty for three (mostly) functioning, professional adults.

    Any way you slice it I'm heartbroken. Today's the day I finally accept I'll never ever see the original 4 perform together as long as I live.

  17. #2177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
    There's a claim that a source close to D'arcy says Billy and James tried to get her back for months and it didn't work out because she's just not in the head space for it anymore.

    I desperately need to believe this, because I can't compute them all shutting her out - especially not James - unless there was a goddamned good reason. It's behavior too shitty for three (mostly) functioning, professional adults.

    Any way you slice it I'm heartbroken. Today's the day I finally accept I'll never ever see the original 4 perform together as long as I live.
    Right...a "source". Probably Kerry Brown, who was once married to D'arcy in another lifetime ago. Close enough, I guess.

    And then there's D'arcy herself over on Facebook, interacting with fans and lamenting how bad she wanted to do this reunion for the longest time, and getting shafted by WPC.

    https://www.facebook.com/darcy.wretzkybrown

    Really? Why would she do this if she was "invited all the way" and has been singing the same tune for years about her eagerness to perform as the original lineup again?

    I'll tell you what makes perfect sense: William Patrick Corgan the Elitist Prick shitting on one of his collaborators yet again. Because we've never seen that before. Just ask Paz, or Pajo, or Sweeney, or James, or Trent, or Mike Byrne, or..

  18. #2178
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    If it was just Billy, or Billy and Jimmy, then yeah, I wouldn't put up any kind of argument. It's the kind of calculating behavior he has a history of, sure. I don't always buy into the Billy's an asshole argument - he deffo is a lot of the time - but having her in the band makes much too much sense in terms of profitability and marketability. Look at it that way. He stands to lose more than he gains by having her out.

    But I don't get why James would do this without her involved. It's the piece that makes no sense to me. Like, I don't see him doing this unless there was no other way.

    Plus he's right there going "she's out of her mind". We look at that and see an insult, sure, but what if that really is what he understands her to be? That #BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor hash tag makes a fuck ton of sense if you look at it that way.

    You can be unstable and perfectly capable of rational communication. I don't doubt she is bitterly disappointed.

  19. #2179
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    Honestly, as long as Billy and Jimmy is involved I have no problem with calling it a reunion.
    Billy's songwriting and Jimmy's drumming are what SP is to me.
    James is like Richard Barbieri to Porcupine Tree. With him it sounds much better, but not "essential".

    Yes, I like Zeitgeist, American Gothic and Oceania. Love Gossamer and residency songs.

  20. #2180
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    Clearly Billy, Jimmy, and James are all on the same page, but everyone piles the hate on Billy and only Billy. It's the word of 3 people against hers and yet everyone immediately takes her word for it without giving the other side any consideration. To be clear, I am not calling her a liar (I believe there is truth on both sides here), but why buy every word of her story and discredit everything else as bullshit? Maybe there's more to this story or something about D'arcy and her current state that we don't know about. Not to mention the apparent fact that she has barely played music since the '90s, which very likely has a great deal to do with their decision. Just trying to play devil's advocate...
    Last edited by sonic_discord; 02-12-2018 at 10:42 PM.

  21. #2181
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    Billy and James together is more important than Billy and Jimmy together. That's why Adore is amazing and sounds exactly like the Pumpkins and Zeitgeist is subpar and sounds like someone trying hard to sound like the Pumpkins.

    History has shown that Billy is a complete douche. He has had a falling out with pretty much everyone he has worked with. There's years and years of evidence showing Billy being an egomaniacal prick. I'm sorry but their statement does not make sense nor fit the timeline of events. Billy couldn't help himself from being an asshole in the album reissues. There's just too much history of his behavior. Billy gets especially pissed when a member of the band other than him gets praise and support. He has shit on James when this has been the case, D'arcy, Nicole, etc. Billy wants all the praise and attention.
    Last edited by neorev; 02-12-2018 at 10:46 PM.

  22. #2182
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    Not disagreeing with any of that but:

    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    I'm sorry but their statement does not make sense nor fit the timeline of events.
    Over the last few months? If the story of them trying hard to get her back in and then giving up once they saw "the situation" is true, It fits perfectly. Months of rumor and reunion buzz until BAM! We get 3/4.

    "Billy is an asshole" is an easy answer for everything. And while it may be true, it doesn't explain why James is apparently okay with this, too. BC lives in his own little world, yeah, but he's not gonna turn down a chance to market a full-fledged reunion. He's egotistical but not a total idiot. He's an opportunist and a businessperson who treats his band like a brand and I can't believe he'd turn around and shoot himself in the foot like this, depriving himself of a full deck of original members, and potentially millions of dollars - just because some people like D"Arcy more.

    Her non-involvement might be the very reason James only committed to one song. We don't even know if he'll tour with them.

  23. #2183
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    Always sucks when something like this happens. Especially with the rumours going on for so long as well as Billy & D'Arcy saying they were on good terms again.

    Always sucks when things like this happen with original line ups.

  24. #2184
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    https://www.alternativenation.net/sm...reunion-offer/

    Looks like Billy's not an asshole anymore, people.

  25. #2185
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    Jesus Christ, was all the drama really worth it? Let them sort the things out by themselves, and then announce stuff. Whoever started the leaks, hacks and rumors can go fuck himself royally.

  26. #2186
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    So Billy seems pretty reasonable from those messages?

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    Jesus, those texts gave me PTSD to text conversations with my ex girlfriend

  28. #2188
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    She's still posting this morning...

  29. #2189
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    Fuck this was close to happening for real. Even if she had a torn rotator cuff she could've visited them...

  30. #2190
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    Seems to me Billy was putting the cart before the horse on all of this reunion stuff...not making sure she could play with them before all of the plans were done etc. Doesn't seem like he should've been in such a rush.

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