The Smashing Pumpkins

[fillow]

Songs I would easily throw out of MCIS:
Jellybelly
Galapogos
In the Arms of Sleep
Ruby
Stumbleine
We Only Come Out at Night
Beautiful
Lily
By Starilght

[seasonsinthesky]

No 'In The Arms of Sleep'??

I cannot in good conscience endorse any Mellon Collie tracklist that excludes "By Starlight." Sorry, but it's a matter of principle.

ah, two cuts i wish i could've fit in there (along with "Here is No Why"). sadly, they both had to go — my general philosophy was a) to keep the variety of the record intact without including unnecessary or lesser songs (here's looking at "We Only Come Out at Night"); b) to make it roughly fit in the style of an A-side/B-side vinyl frame (though ignoring the time limitations of vinyl: 'side 1' ends with "Ruby"); and c) to include all the singles, thus making it at least passably indicative of what the label and BC would have chosen at the time. with the approach of "By Starlight" covered in principle by "1979," i stuck true to the latter (also a better song imo). the only song i didn't want included was "Thirty-Three," which i find lacklustre, but its choice as a single and its indication of the album's variety made it a wiser choice. i sought a decent balance between stalwarts, personal favourites, common fan opinion, singles, and BC's sense of pacing and intent.

[Mantra]

I really think single-disc Mellon Collies are an exercise in futility. It's a double album for a reason. No matter how you approach it, a really great song will always be cut, and the album will then be worse because of it.

[frankie teardrop]

but there ARE a lot of bloated, silly, sappy songs on there, especially towards the end of the second disc. perhaps better off trashing those, re-instating many of the better EP b-sides (set the ray to jerry, mouth of babes, aeroplane flies high, marquis in spades, medellia of the grey skies, rotten apples, ugly, cherry, etc.)

[Piko]

I wouldn't cut anything. Sometimes, though, ill listen to one album over the other. Sometimes both. I consider them two separate albums (although they're not). I have them separate on my iPod.

And I love By Starlight and Lily. Steven Wilson's Grace For Drowning is a good example of this. It's a double album, but you don't really need to listen them back to back.

[Mantra]

but there ARE a lot of bloated, silly, sappy songs on there, especially towards the end of the second disc.

Nah, your version is way too metal-centric. The whole point of the album is to have of broad range of styles with lots of extreme contrasts. Like one of my favorite moments is when X.Y.U. comes to an end and you hear that funny bouncing sound of We Only Come Out At Night. And how can you even consider a version of the album that doesn't have the opening title track? It's such an iconic song.

And seriously, By Starlight is a fucking great song. I think there used to be a thread on Netphoria with like 40 pages of people arguing over whether it was THE best song Billy ever wrote, or just in the top five.

[slave2thewage]

I just take the second disc as gospel, to be honest.

[Amaro]

Songs I would easily throw out of MCIS:
Jellybelly
Galapogos
In the Arms of Sleep
Ruby
Stumbleine
We Only Come Out at Night
Beautiful
Lily
By Starilght

I have more than a problem with you right now.

[Piko]

Pretty much named most of my favorites... Jellybelly? Really? A lot of people would probably beg to differ with that list.

[frankie teardrop]

metal-centric? i feel like i'm the only one here allowing for 'stumbeline'- not to mention the medellia, cherry, rotten apples in my follow up post. :P

i can abide 'by starlight,' but i never cared for 'we only come out at night' or 'lily' though i do have a soft spot for 'beautiful,' especially the ending.

[Mantra]

I'm just saying, fuck with it too much and pretty soon it's a totally different album with a totally different identity. It's like when people make single-disc versions of the White Album and take off Revolution #9. It just isn't the White Album without that song. And it just isn't Mellon Collie without Lily, etc.

I just take the second disc as gospel, to be honest.

Preach it!

[Amaro]

I completely understand what you're saying, Mantra... There'll never be another original release listing. Even for the songs that may not be as impactful, their presence would still be missed if removed. But this is just for a bit of opinion, whether it's from scratch or what one is seeing as a would-be possibility had it been a single disc along the way. It's interesting to imagine, like it is to imagine the point where the minds involved in production thought to press on for a double.

[fillow]

I have more than a problem with you right now.

Pretty much named most of my favorites... Jellybelly? Really? A lot of people would probably beg to differ with that list.

What if I go on to say that i fucking LOVE both Machina and Zeitgeist? And I even like most of TbK songs.
I'm ready to be crucified right on the spot.

Anyway, I'm not saying these MCIS songs suck, just naming the ones I would delete if I were to make 1-disc version

[slave2thewage]

Machina is my favourite Pumpkins album. Seriously.

COME AT ME.

[Piko]

I love Machina. Love Mellon Collie as is, and would change absolutely nothing. And I loathe Zeitgeist as a whole. I see the point he tried to make with it, but production was a mess and the songs could've been far better.

Now, if I were to change anything. I'd start with Machina. Try, Try, Try is a good song, but in a bad spot. Probably would've fit much better after Glass and the Ghost Children. The entire first half was the heavier stuff. Between songs like Sacred and Profane and Heavy Metal Machine, having that song there doesn't feel right. But I could see the song being grouped right next to Wound, easily.

[frankie teardrop]

i'm curious to see how they integrate both machina I and II into a coherent album. i think that was the plan? i've always loved (most of) the second machina, but the first recently grew on me as a whole. i used to dislike a lot of the second half, but then wised up to the likes of 'age of innocence' and 'wound.' 'this time' also gives me chills.

[slave2thewage]

Hoping that Let Me Give The World To You gets released as a single.

[Piko]

I was put off by the fact that the majority or the album were love songs. I was younger and wanted the.angry stuff. You get older and it eventually clicks. It would be awesome to see what the double album should've been. And curious to hear how different they're going to sound since I can only imagine Billy still wants to re-mix them. Will the tracklistings be different? So many questions. And so long of a wait. Can't wait.

[Amaro]

What if I go on to say that i fucking LOVE both Machina and Zeitgeist? And I even like most of TbK songs.
I'm ready to be crucified right on the spot.

Anyway, I'm not saying these MCIS songs suck, just naming the ones I would delete if I were to make 1-disc version

It's my way of calling you crazy. I won't argue past that.

//

Stumbeline is so good...

[Shadaloo]

Cutting MCIS down to half an album? Fuck, that's like a choice between amputating both legs or arms.

1. MCATIS
2. Tonight, Tonight
3. Zero
4. BWBW
5. To Forgive
6. Love
7. Galapagos
8. Where Boys Fear to Tread
9. Bodies
10. 1979
11. Thru The Eyes of Ruby
12. Stumbleine
13. X.Y.U
14. We Only Come Out At Night

And if I had my way I'd toss Tonite Reprise at the end. Just 'cuz.

Asuuming most things from Machina I + II make it onto the remixed resequenced album, that'd be a fun game to play. I'd have to think on that, especially seeing as how he's said stuff about a few songs in the narrative composing a snippet of a Glass concert, Lucky 13 apparently being one of them, so the EPs do count apparently.

[seasonsinthesky]

Assuming most things from Machina I + II make it onto the remixed resequenced album, that'd be a fun game to play. I'd have to think on that, especially seeing as how he's said stuff about a few songs in the narrative composing a snippet of a Glass concert, Lucky 13 apparently being one of them, so the EPs do count apparently.

well, not all of the EPs — just the songs that are real b-sides ("Lucky 13," "Vanity," "Speed Kills," and "Slow Dawn" – not sure if "Saturnine" would count, since it's an Adore song).

if we had streamlined, consistent production/mix, here's how i would pare Machina down (NOT how i'd combine the two):
01. Le Deux Machina
02. Glass
03. Cash Car Star
04. Stand Inside Your Love
05. Raindrops + Sunshowers
06. The Everlasting Gaze
07. Dross
08. I of the Mourning
09. In My Body
10. This Time
11. Blue Skies Bring Tears
12. Speed Kills (slow)
13. Glass and the Ghost Children
14. Age of Innocence

this was REALLY difficult to put together — maybe even more than my butchering of MCIS
my first real attachment to the band was the more congealed, Machina II-esque mix of Machina I, so a lot of this material is tops in my SP favourites. it was really difficult to cut, say, "The Sacred and Profane," "Innosense," "Lucky 13," "Slow Dawn," etc.

[Piko]

Basing around the loose concept, I'd prolly say half are the more melancholy themed, and the other half, the more optimistic (Glass).

Raindrops and Sunshowers
The Sacred and Profane
Heavy Metal Machine
Dross
This Time
The Crying Tree of Mercury
Blue Skies Bring Tears
Speed Kills
I, Of The Mourning
In My Body
Glass and the Ghost Children
Try, Try, Try
Wound
With Every Light
Age of Innocence

Glass Theme
Cash Car Star
Real Love
Stand Inside Your Love
The Imploding Voice
The Everlasting Gaze
White Spider
Blue Skies Bring Tears (heavy)
Le Deux Machina
Go
Innocence
Let Me Give The World To You
If There Is a God
Home
Here's to the Atom Bomb

[Space Suicide]

By the buzz of this thread and various outlets, I need to really check out Oceania then. The Teargarden tracks after Song For A Son have been crap to me mostly so to hear that Oceania is a good, consistent and excellent SP album makes me want to check it out.

I actually liked a majority of Zeitgeist, wasn't a bad album at all. Better than anything he's done from then till Oceania now.

[Sutekh]

Yeah mellon collie should have been a one disc with an EP of offcuts

The cringeworthy mingle with the amazing on that album - 2nd disc has 3 of the best songs ever - in a row - and then he wrecks it with that pathetic "and ill doooooo anything" song. Toooo teenagery and lame, kills the momentum (Thirty Three seems a pretty profound song about growing up and moving on, identity change etc. Seemed a shame to follow it with such adolescent sentiment). Shame because musically it's pretty exquisite (for rock music). And then some great songs immediately after it - what was he thinking?

SP definitely divides into two eras - and the second era doesn't start with Zeitgeist or Machina, it starts somewhere during Mellon Collie - about half of Mellon Collie is as good as Siamese Dream (straight up guitar oriented alt rock), and the rest is either a bit naff or more similar to his subsequent stuff

PS if Thirty-Three was on Rotten Apples, it would have been perfect! He's a madman

[PhoenixML]

As a non-fan, I wish I would like Mellon Collie as much as the fans, but I can only enjoy the singles.

Adore is almost flawless, except I don't like the Nightmare song. Definitely my favorite.

I like Machina, almost every song. It's just that the pacing is kinda odd! It kinda have mood swings all over the place (I don't know if it make sense).

I just recently tried the solo album for the first time. It's.. ok! I like the first half! And then it's somewhat boring.

I couldn't get hook to Zeitgeist, I did enjoy Neverlost. And I still haven't been able to complete Oceania because of lost of interest.

I'm still trying.

[Piko]

I'd say four eras. I'd say Gish and Siamese Dream are in one. Mellon Collie to Machina (the heavy, darker, more artsy stuff). Zeitgeist to Teargarden. And Oceania onward, with the new band dynamic.

[slave2thewage]

I'm hoping Corgan abandons the Teargarden nonsense after how well he's done with Oceania.

[Reznor2112]

Due to my ignorance I have never given Adore a chance. But since the release of Oceania I have gone back and been listening to all the older stuff. I finally sat down and listened to Adore.

Mellon Collie and Machina used to tie as my favorite SP album. I say now, Adore if my favorite SP album ever.

the 8 song stretch from Ava Adore to Pug is just fucking fantabulous.

Im stoked for the MC re-issue but more for Adore now. I only with that TEITBITE & TBITEITB were on Adore. They fit perfectly in that record as they were recorded around the same time and/or the same sessions.

From one fan to another...if you have been the moronic hermit I have been and not given Adore a shot, do so.

[Endlessly]

I say now, Adore if my favorite SP album ever.

the 8 song stretch from Ava Adore to Pug is just fucking fantabulous.

Check out some of the live performances from that era, too-- they're great, and there's bonus Mike Garson. I actually hated Tear until I watched this one:

[frankie teardrop]

adore is my favorite. by the time it came out, i was kind of oversaturated with the pumpkins, having been a die hard, uber collector fan in middle school (!) with the release of siamese dream. i avoided adore on release day, got it a few weeks later, and fell for it, hard. still find it to be the most mature and listened to of all their records. as mentioned above, the charity tour (night 1 at radio city) was also the first show i ever went to- 8 rows from the stage. mostly adore material. that lineup of the band SLAYED.