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Faceplams: Because Bill's social media speech has gone the way of his lyrics: kinda-wry overwrought poetry that is not as clever as he thinks it is and is really just kind of fatiguing to read.
Unintelligible Whispering
Because Bill's social media speech has gone the way of his lyrics: kinda-wry overwrought poetry that is not as clever as he thinks it is and is really just kind of fatiguing to read.
Active Member
For some reason always thought it was just "Smashing Pumpkins" without "The"
RA-MEN ROPPAI
I've always put "The" but there wasn't one from the beginning up till MCIS, then for Zeitgeist / American Gothic.Originally Posted by onthewall2983
Active Member
I could certainly be wrong, but I think they started adding it to drive home the point that the word "Smashing" is meant to be used as an adjective (as in "wonderful" or "impressive"), as opposed to a verb (as in "to break to pieces with violence"). Just my $0.02.
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"Homer Simpson, The Smiling Politely"
The Virus Inside
Oh man... The word "The" changes the whole meaning of the band name... My life has been a lie this whole time. *Mind Blown*
If it's "THE Smashing Pumpkins" Then it simply means that the pumpkins are a "smashing good time" Smashing as in "That was Great, awesome. What a Smashing party that was" , "Smashing young lads"
"Smashing" referencing the are good, and "Pumpkins" being the band members...
Shiiiiit, all this time I thought it was literally a bunch of people sitting around a pumpkin patch or someone's porch on halloween picking pumpkins up and smashing them.
Last edited by ManBurning; 02-06-2018 at 04:17 PM.
RA-MEN ROPPAI
Heh, you see posts like this and you realize not everyone has sorting autism. I couldn't care less about the meaning at the end of the day, but whether I should add "The" to my tags, that's the shit that keeps you up at night.Oh man... The word "The" changes the whole meaning of the band name... My life has been a lie this whole time. *Mind Blown*
If it's "THE Smashing Pumpkins" Then it simply means that the pumpkins are a "smashing good time" Smashing as in "That was Great, awesome. What a Smashing party that was" , "Smashing young lads"
"Smashing" referencing the are good, and "Pumpkins" being the band members...
Shiiiiit, all this time I thought it was literally a bunch of people sitting around a pumpkin patch or someone's porch on halloween picking pumpkins up and smashing them.
Last edited by Jon; 02-07-2018 at 09:56 AM. Reason: don't talk so good
Administrator
Did you guys knew that The Piper at the Gates of Dawn was released by The Pink Floyd?
And yeah, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome, The Nine Inch Nails!
Unintelligible Whispering
I used to call them SP exclusively without the article because of the SP heart logo and the way Billy introduced them on the Simpsons. Nowadays when speaking, I'll say "The Smashing Pumpkins", "SP" or usually just "The Pumpkins". But in my head, half the time when I include the "The", I'm still thinking "The 'Smashing Pumpkins concert' " and not " 'The Smashing Pumpkins' Concert' ". I process both without thinking of it, but I tag everything with "The".
IMO It's felt more right to use the article since MCIS, since that was around the time the band started to mature/get more pretentious depending who you ask.
Tidbit: Billco's done Space oddity for the Stern Bowie tribute Friday.
Administrator
>>hadn’t always been a “Space Oddity” super fan but said he found himself drawn to the tune after Bowie's death.
That's a weird statement, considering that Space Oddity was a staple in Pumpkins setlist on Oceania tour during 2012-2013 and was recorded for a live album.
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circa 1989
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Where might one acquire digital files of that tape?circa 1989
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@sonic_discord it was included in the deluxe reissue of Pisces Iscariot.
Unintelligible Whispering
Seems like James didn't just 'stop by' the studio
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Not the version that I have (which is only the 2 CDs)... Looks like I need to go find it when I get home
RA-MEN ROPPAI
It's with the "24-bit" Digital Deluxe Edition. The 2CD's are 24/44.1 and the demo tape is 16/44.1.
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To be honest, I'm a bit nervous how fast they recorded this album.
http://www.nme.com/news/music/smashi...nished-2238293
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Let's hope there was simply a burst of creativity and inspiration caused by three of the four original members composing music together for the first time since 1999.
Stubby Member
Time and time again, ive heard musicians say their best work was the stuff they wrote quickly. Better it make sense and be inspired than laboured and second-guessed So, fast can mean focussed and inspired. not necessarily rushed.
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I guess it just makes me question how much James was actually involved in the writing of this album.
Stubby Member
Maybe I'm missing something something, but James and D'Arcy were never really behind the creative side of things, that is if songwriting credits are to be believed. If that is the case, then I'm seeing 4 songs from the first 5 SP records that James wrote/co-wrote. Surely, James had input on all of those tracks, be it arrangements or just suggestions, but in my mind the Pumpkins were, are and will always be the Billy Corgan show. Honestly, I'm OK with that. The only member that band has ever had that is utterly vital to their sound is Jimmy Chamberlain. As long as he and Corgan are involved, the rest is just a bonus.
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Mellon Collie was 100% a group effort. Before that, yeah a lot of the recording was on Billy and Jimmy's shoulders. But Mellon Collie was an album made together... and their strongest one. Plenty of footage of them all together in the studio for that one. Some tracks on MC and AFH are literally full band takes.
There's also a behind the scenes Adore documentary that showed James working in the studio. He did a lot of the atmospheric guitar elements.
Last edited by neorev; 02-08-2018 at 03:22 PM.
Unintelligible Whispering
Reposting this from two pages back (source is the awesome SP recording sessions wiki):
The pecking order on influence to the songs usually falls in this order: Billy, Jimmy, James, D’arcy…although D’arcy contributes very little in the arranging department, she is the person I watch most while we work, because like a child, she is incapable of hiding or masking any displeasure, and it shows readily on her face…James general interest is directly proportionate to whether or not a song is “his”, and following that, whether or not he personally likes a particular tune…he is fully capable of offering a brilliant suggestion at any given moment, and then turning right around and looking completely bored as if there were a million places he would rather be than here…Jimmy stands as the auteur of our power, so great is his unconscious understanding of how to lift the songs to the highest heights…his suggestions tend to be more emotional as opposed to musical…he readily reads my mind, and I read his, and much of our work is eye to eye, soul to soul, and goes on mostly unseen by the other two…my role is one of floor leader and cheerleader, as most of the songs are mine…we have a general rule, which is: ‘your song, your call’…this means that whomever is the writer on a particular song has final call on any decision, including a veto on what other members might play part wise…if a song is a co-write, then both people share this vote/veto…songs like “soma” and “mayonnaise” are true musical collaborations, as I sort thru the issues, making sure the other writer (in this case James) is in full agreement on all aspects of the song, and it’s execution…
The problem is that looking at it simply in terms of songwriting credits drastically reduces the scope of what is accomplished in the studio. Like you said, just because James doesn't help write a song doesn't necessarily mean he has no suggestions to offer about its sound or its production, but even if the final decisions on it are his alone, Corgan's made it abundantly clear that he did value everybody's input, with that D'Arcy bit above being an example - I think she only ever wrote one song (Daughter) throughout the band's history.
I'll also note that you can never have these discussions without bringing up Adore, as that album is marked directly by Jimmy's absence. It absolutely retains the feel of an SP record, though very different from what had come previously, and Bill did take their input into account midway through 1997 when they went into the studio. Bill usually starts alone:
The first day we in, I meet the new pro-tools guy, Bjorn (little do I know that we will not only work together on my next 4 albums, but he will also become a close friend)…the first song we are going to record is a beautiful acoustic song that I envision will begin the album…James and D’arcy are not even in the studio when I start working (this is fairly typical)…
James, D’arcy, and I go in to Chicago Recording Company with Matt Walker on drums, and over about 3-4 days quickly lay down some of my new tunes…(the Adore album version of “Annie-dog” is recorded live in these sessions, as is the first run thru of “for Martha” without the lyrics)…James and D’arcy and Matt play really great (we record live), and seem to like and appreciate the new songs…
Then later in 1997:
…it had become James and D’arcy vs. me in the power department, and their opinion centered more on a “we’re tired, let’s take some time off” vibe than what would be best for the album…instead of taking stock of my own misgivings, or insecurities, I started to look for someone or something to blame for my lack of resolve…the long, slow tailspin started about 2 or 3 weeks in…instead of backing up, and seeing the writing on the wall, I got even more determined and stubborn, and just pressed myself harder…and sadly, stopped listening to anybody…
"Appels + Oranges" is probably a good example of a case where the band created a perfectly valid arrangement, but then I ended up completely scrapping everybody's parts and changing the song from the bottom up. And while that might seem disrespectful, I fully acknowledge that I probably wouldn't have arrived at the final arrangement unless I had their original parts as a jump-off point. Even the tracks that weren't used then were important to the overall development of the album. Adore was like a ball that went back and forth. There are some songs where James probably created five different guitar parts for five different versions of the same tune. Or I took some four-bar part that he played off the cuff and made that the guitar part. It was like digging in dirt.
"What's amazing about James and D'arcy," he notes with bona fide pride, "is that they almost never question what I want to do. I don't think there's one song on that album I've been questioned about. In fact, the questions usually come about the songs I don't want to put out. There are three songs that D'arcy really likes that probably won't make the album. She thinks I'm a fucking idiot for not putting them out."
See what I mean? They're not sitting there thumbs-in-bums. They're contributing and he's listening - sometimes he takes what they offer, other times he doesn't. The people in the band and producing are always going to have a part in how whatever they put out comes out.
I compare SP most directly to Marilyn Manson, with the notable difference being that MM never did a lot of writing on the musical side of things - there are notable points in time in each band where the lineups shifted and that played a major part in how their sound turned out. Losing Scott/Daisy (RIP) was necessary to move away from much of the Spooky Kids atmosphere, and IMO John 5 leaving the lineup way later changed the band's sound forever.
So yeah, it's the BC show in terms of writing most of the songs and making all the major decisions, but IMO without a band effort, what you get is going to severely vary in quality.
Anyhow:
This does seem like a short time to be recording and wrapping in, but I'm guessing Bill's got a pretty big backlog of songs written already that he wants to work with, and they still might have work to do with overdubs and whatnot. Recording time for most SP albums tends to be in the 4-6 month range. Maybe they decided on a spontaneous approach on purpose.
Last edited by Shadaloo; 02-08-2018 at 05:12 PM.
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+1 on everything @Shadaloo said above
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I think why Billy and James work so well is that Billy is more about the upfront riffs while James is more about accompaniment and atmosphere. Their sounds come together and complement each other in a unique and awesome way. Take one away and it is just not the same. That's why Adore stills sounds like a Pumpkins record even without Jimmy being there. Jeff is not this. Jeff is another riff player. Without James, a lot of these little nuances are missing and throws off the Pumpkins sound. Jimmy is the drive. He gives the songs their heartbeat, a driving force. I love Adore. It is one of my faves. There's no way Adore could have been made if Jimmy was still in the picture. But it's pretty obvious all four members had an influence on each other in the studio. You can easily hear it in the music itself when they are not there.
Unintelligible Whispering
^Bingo. There's a specific quote that I wish I had on hand where Billy said that he and James devised a chemistry of playing where each successive note served to compliment the others' so that at times it wasn't so much a matter of lead and rhythm guitar as two people directly playing together, or something. Gotta try and find it.
And I think it really, really says something that a lot of the BC/JI collaborations wound up being these big epic numbers - I Am One, Soma, Mayonaise - tracks which are powerful, atmospheric, and rank among the band's longtime fan-favorites. I really hope against hope BC and JI found the time to whip up a number or two together this time through, though it doesn't seem likely.
Active Member
Do we know for certain about when they started the recording process?
Unintelligible Whispering
He was recording his solo stuff in Nashville mid-December - he said he'd be going back for overdubs for solo work in February and mentioned a potential double LP. After that he did some shows, was in L.A with jimmy by Jan. 8th, the pic with James was dated Jan. 16th. Jimmy just headed back to Chicago. So they worked for exactly a month across two studios.
Stubby Member
I wonder if it's the original twins?
https://www.instagram.com/p/Be_mZtXj...williampcorgan
Active Member
Another photo shoot? For the new album cover?
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