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Thread: The Smashing Pumpkins

  1. #1921
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    The Smashing Pumpkins

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
    Around the time he was touting its imminent release, he was also going off about how he might release MI and MII together ""Not as he would have in 2000", but the way he wanted to do it currently, and he was even mentioning guest vocalists.

    I have nothing to back this up, but I'm starting to wonder if in addition to all the legal issues the reissue was/is facing, his being on buddy-buddy terms with the old band again might have prevented him from releasing a clusterfuck botch job, got him to reevaluate his old legacy and he wisely put the brakes on it, wanting to finish it with the rest of the band present for input.
    That is true - I forgot about the guest vocalists (I remember reading that he wanted to remix it which - considering the minorly tweaked remixes of a couple of b-sides the MCIS reissue, wouldn't have necessarily been a bad thing, though I didn't really like almost any of the "reimagined" Matt Walker remixes on Adore's). That would have almost certainly been nightmarish! In fact I put together my own "sixth disc" for Adore since so many original versions were missing and we never got a decent, comprehensive b-side/outtake collection like we did for the previous albums. Judas O comes close but it's missing several songs that are scattered on rare promos. All of the reissues had some pretty bizarrely redundant material and unfortunately scattershot track lists. There's only about an hour of unreleased tracks on the MCIS reissue but it's hidden within three and a half hours of slightly different alternate mixes and a handful of worthwhile demos across three discs. I could not figure out the logic of that presentation. Adore is also missing a ton of material despite having four bonus discs. So ... who knows how M1/M2 would have worked out.

    I've always liked the very lo-fi sound of M2 (I think I read they didn't even really make a final mix of the songs for whatever reason), especially in comparison to a couple of the synth- and reverb- drenched M1 tracks.

    It has been three years since the last reissue though, and I'm never sure if any of the poorer-selling 90s music I liked is a real priority for whatever remains of the big labels. (The closest thing we got for a Fragile deluxe so far is only on vinyl and not available in any digital stores or streaming services?!) So I'm just assuming that it's not gonna happen unless it's in the news again.
    Last edited by Pbgut; 09-28-2017 at 03:25 AM.

  2. #1922
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    The Smashing Pumpkins' Rarities & B-Sides collection is quite extensive. Picked up lossless of Qobuz. It's over 100 tracks. It's missing some stuff, but includes quite a bit.

    The Mellon Collie and Aeroplane sets had a few shared tracks. The Dark Globe live CD that comes with the Aeroplane reissue is amazing. I do wish we got ALL of the Pastachio Medley tracks separated, even if they're just jams. But the boxsets are quite nice even though they left out some stuff. It does bug me. The Pumpkins have SO MUCH material though. During the releases of the reissue boxsets, there's been a bunch of stuff leaking that was not included. It's crazy how much material they got.

    I hate when artists do reissues and ignore their b-sides. The electronic group Leftfield recently did a remastered reissue of their classic album Leftism with a bonus disc. But instead of remastering their amazing b-sides and alternate mixes, they included newly commissioned remixes from modern day producers. Such a shame because they have some amazing b-sides.
    Last edited by neorev; 09-28-2017 at 02:43 PM.

  3. #1923
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    I've been slowly creating a B, C, Z-etc. sides compilation of my own, something more comprehensive than the B-Sides collection (which being digital only bothers me to no end), divided by era. Actual single B-sides, alt. versions reissue bonus tracks, live-only tracks, bootlegs and leaked stuff...the sheer amount of it is staggering.

    The album version of The Spaniards debuts tomorrow morning. There's 15 seconds of it up on BC's twitter....I'm rather optimistic.

  4. #1924
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    I liked the Bjorn Thorsrud 2012 Cupid De Locke mix, bringing Jimmy's drums to the forefront was a good choice. Other than that, I don't listen to those.

    Remember that one mix of Cherry that sounded exactly like the original? Good times.

    Anyway, the Spaniards. I really like this one. I'd suggest listening to it sans watching the seizure-inducing Pillbox film excerpt:


  5. #1925
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
    Anyway, the Spaniards. I really like this one. I'd suggest listening to it sans watching the seizure-inducing Pillbox film excerpt:

    Not bad. The synths are a nice touch. Though I do wish this album had some beats, even if they're minimal. Or Adore-esque loops. It's definitely one his better post-original line up songs.

    P.S. Shadaloo, I am MyKeyZ on Netphoria.

  6. #1926
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    I think there are like five of us with accounts there, lol

  7. #1927
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    LOL, Netphoria forums. Every time I try to go there from workplace, I see Sorry. The administrator has banned your IP address. It's been like this for years. I guess I'm better off not reading it.

  8. #1928
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    Someone in the comments on The Spaniards video called Adore boring and hasn't aged well and that Machina 2 is their best record. I wanna go spit in his eye. :P

  9. #1929
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    Someone in the comments on The Spaniards video called Adore boring and hasn't aged well and that Machina 2 is their best record. I wanna go spit in his eye. :P
    Yeah, I'm sure this is a controversial opinion, but I consider Machina II to be the original lineup's worst record.
    For me, it goes Mellon Collie > Siamese Dream > Adore > Gish > Machina > Machina II
    SPv2 = Oceania > Zeitgeist > Monuments > Teargarden
    If I had to combine: Mellon Collie > Siamese > Adore > Oceania > Gish > Machina > Zeitgeist > Monuments > Machina II > Teargarden

  10. #1930
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    Like almost all of his songs from the past decade, Spaniards studio is incredibly weak stuff compared to the live version. None of the energy, none of the urgency, none of the soaring feeling of the version they debuted on that In Plainsong tour.

    Also, the best stuff on Machina II is among the best stuff they'd ever done -- Dross, White Spider, Here's To the Atom Bomb, In My Body. Some of my favorite songs of theirs by far are on that album.

  11. #1931
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleiner352 View Post
    Like almost all of his songs from the past decade, Spaniards studio is incredibly weak stuff compared to the live version. None of the energy, none of the urgency, none of the soaring feeling of the version they debuted on that In Plainsong tour.

    Also, the best stuff on Machina II is among the best stuff they'd ever done -- Dross, White Spider, Here's To the Atom Bomb, In My Body. Some of my favorite songs of theirs by far are on that album.
    I think the production (or lack thereof) on that album kills of a lot of it for me. It has always (since 2000) felt like B-sides and demos left over from the Machina I sessions to me. I know that it was all written together with the intention of releasing a second double-album, but the Machina I tracks were the only ones that got the proper studio treatment. I would love to give a newly remastered version a second chance, if only it would be released...

  12. #1932
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    Call me nuts, but I like that it's a more subdued take. I figured this was going to happen once I saw it was part of the tracklist. Bill prolly wants to leave the crazy guitar shredding to the SP name.

    I think I just like the song whatever form it comes in. *shrug*

    Almost everything SP1 did was solid gold IMO and that includes MII.

  13. #1933
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonic_discord View Post
    Yeah, I'm sure this is a controversial opinion, but I consider Machina II to be the original lineup's worst record.
    For me, it goes Mellon Collie > Siamese Dream > Adore > Gish > Machina > Machina II
    SPv2 = Oceania > Zeitgeist > Monuments > Teargarden
    If I had to combine: Mellon Collie > Siamese > Adore > Oceania > Gish > Machina > Zeitgeist > Monuments > Machina II > Teargarden
    You forgot Pisces Iscariot

    Mine would be...
    Mellon Collie/Aeroplane Flies High
    Adore
    Siamese Dream
    Pisces Iscariot
    Gish
    Machina II
    Machina

  14. #1934
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    I enjoy the lo-fi sense of "found in a crate in a closet in some abandoned record studio" vibe that Machina II gives off, even though I'd love a properly integrated, polished version of it and Machina I combined. I feel like that was Corgan at his mad genius peak.

  15. #1935
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    You forgot Pisces Iscariot

    Mine would be...
    Mellon Collie/Aeroplane Flies High
    Adore
    Siamese Dream
    Pisces Iscariot
    Gish
    Machina II
    Machina

    I didn't forget it. I just don't consider it a true "album." It's a collection of B-sides. Anyway, I'd probably put it between Gish and Machina. Frail and Bedazzled, Whir, Landslide, Pissant, and Starla are all amazing though. I might even put it above Gish.

    Quote Originally Posted by kleiner352 View Post
    I enjoy the lo-fi sense of "found in a crate in a closet in some abandoned record studio" vibe that Machina II gives off, even though I'd love a properly integrated, polished version of it and Machina I combined. I feel like that was Corgan at his mad genius peak.
    I too would like to hear the properly sequenced, remastered version combined into a double-album, but that wasn't Corgan at his "mad genius peak." THAT was during the MCIS/TAFH era. That was by far the most prolific period of the band's career and it also yielded their best (and most diverse) work, in my opinion.
    Last edited by sonic_discord; 09-29-2017 at 03:25 PM.

  16. #1936
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    MCIS & TAFH
    SD & PI
    MI&MII
    Adore
    Gish

  17. #1937
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    The Smashing Pumpkins' Rarities & B-Sides collection is quite extensive. Picked up lossless of Qobuz. It's over 100 tracks. It's missing some stuff, but includes quite a bit.

    The Mellon Collie and Aeroplane sets had a few shared tracks. The Dark Globe live CD that comes with the Aeroplane reissue is amazing. I do wish we got ALL of the Pastachio Medley tracks separated, even if they're just jams. But the boxsets are quite nice even though they left out some stuff. It does bug me. The Pumpkins have SO MUCH material though. During the releases of the reissue boxsets, there's been a bunch of stuff leaking that was not included. It's crazy how much material they got.

    I hate when artists do reissues and ignore their b-sides. The electronic group Leftfield recently did a remastered reissue of their classic album Leftism with a bonus disc. But instead of remastering their amazing b-sides and alternate mixes, they included newly commissioned remixes from modern day producers. Such a shame because they have some amazing b-sides.
    Yeah, that's a pretty comprehensive collection. I didn't know that existed outside of iTunes. I wasn't really paying attention to SP until the reissues and some early 30s nostalgia hit me, so I assumed that collection was iTunes Store only. I guess that definitely fills the void. SP seemed to have the most prolific output of any band of that era that I was aware of they have almost four albums worth of B-sides and available out takes from 1991-2000 so it seemed like a shame to have them scattered all over the place after Aeroplane, but this is a good comp. Glad to know it exists in CD quality.

    So I guess the main release we're missing is just Machina II. It's a pretty lo-fi record for a major label band (which I always liked!) so it's not a huge deal that we have vinyl rips as the only source but the couple of tracks on Greatest Hits did sound better so I hope we get to hear the rest.

    The main reason I liked M2 better than M1 was because the very rough mix made it sound like it had the energy of "the band," which isn't something you got to hear very often with the group, due to the general use of like...40 guitar overdubs, even though some of the songs aren't as great. And there are about 4 songs on M1 that I really can't stand. The dirge-yness and the fat synths of some of the songs towards the end just really make it drag. I just wish it had been edited.

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    Last edited by Shadaloo; 10-01-2017 at 02:54 PM.

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    Processional
    The Spaniards
    Aeronaut
    Half-Life of an Autodidact
    Mandarynne
    Antietam
    If I Were a Carpenter (Tim Hardin)
    To Sheila
    Disarm
    Muzzle
    Drum + Fife
    Try, Try, Try
    Wish You Were Here (Pink Floyd)
    Tonight, Tonight

    Encore:
    Today
    Cherry

  20. #1940
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    Jimmy is not a mortal man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbie solo View Post


    Jimmy is not a mortal man.
    That Silverfuck performance is blistering

  22. #1942
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    Hearing dripping, cannot find tap

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
    Hearing dripping, cannot find tap
    Am I crazy or was this exact post posted a few days ago??

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    Quote Originally Posted by imail724 View Post
    Am I crazy or was this exact post posted a few days ago??
    I had briefly but was not sure if source was legit or shitposting. Various vanished links corroborate the statement.

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    "Audio unavailable in your region, eat a bundle of razorcocks you fucking non US residents"

    ):

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    its not bad overall, very much an acoustic affair tho so miles away from TFE

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    This absolutely shits all over everything he's done since 2007 barring maybe Oceania. Need more replays, but so far I'm loving this.

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    I've gotta say, this is much better than I expected. I like it WAY more than TFE, but in my opinion, it doesn't come close to reaching the level of quality that Oceania achieved, though some of the songs remind me of tracks from that album. Zowie reminded me of A Song for a Son. The beginning of Processional reminded me a bit of the beginning of Pinwheels (my favorite track from Oceania). The piano in the beginning of Aeronaut is VERY reminiscent of the piano in Blank Page.

  30. #1950
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    Impressions after 2 days' listening:

    Zowie is nice and simple. A sweet little tribute to Bowie. A shame about that bad Cain/Abel pun though, someone's been hanging out with Brian Warner too much. :P
    Processional is a favorite of mine. James' guitar itself isn't much to write home about, it's just more notable that he's here, I guess. "It's a long way to get back home" is one of the album's most memorable lines IMO.
    I still enjoy The Spaniards, but it doesn't hold up compared to most other tracks on here. Works well enough in the context of the album.
    Same with Aeronaut. It's okay but it wore out its welcome quick.
    The Long Goodbye's has a catchy enough verse. I think it's the grower for me.
    Half-Life of an Autodidact is really, really great. It feels like someone lit a fire under his ass. Has a Residency 2007/IAGW feel. Honest and yearning. "I just got tired".
    Amarinthe translated very well from the Plainsong performances to this album. Enjoyable.
    Antietam's okay but a tad too repetitive.
    Mandarynne's a good brooding piano number. A standout for me.
    Shiloh is just kinda forgettable.
    Archer...may be one of the best tracks he's done in two decades. It's worthy of SP1 at their heights. Reminds me of Echo and The Bunnymen. I can't love it enough. "I haven't given up, I'm just the archer for the sun"....I could write a fucking thesis on what that line might mean.

    I'd say this is a much much more cohesive effort than I'm used to seeing from him, better than I was expecting nowadays. It really feels like the testament of a guy meditating about where he is in his life at fifty, meditating on successes and failures. Laying his fears bare but not dramatically pounding the walls over them. Some of his better vocals in a good long while, still a lot of vibrato everywhere but not so much it drags me out of the moment. It's mature. Almost easy-listening, but not quite. A good album for a rainy day, or a quiet drive. Very very enjoyable. Don't expect him to be baring fangs - it's a reflective work from a guy who wears healing crystals and runs a tea shop, but Billy Corgan is still in there.

    I think it's a solid 7/10. Very possibly the strongest work he's put out since Machina, definitely the most earnest.

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