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Thread: Doctor Who

  1. #571
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    Okay, there are now two back-to-back episodes in which memory wiping is brought up. Oh, and bloody Clara's theme turned up near the end of the first one. WHY, Moffat, WHY can't you be fucking done with her? The two Christmas episodes did a good job at leaving her be, but the first episode of Class is proving to be a strong indicator that The Doctor's missing memories of her is going to be a new story arc, rather than The Doctor learning to let go after the events of the last episodes of Whouffaldi: The Series.

    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    Spoiler: First episode reveals that the Doctor's companion is openly gay

    I know some people will be over-the-moon-excited about this. Me? I honestly hope it gets treated as "not a big deal," because in real life, it shouldn't be. But I understand that it's a huge change for a 50+ year old show.
    Judging from the first two episodes, it's definitely no big deal. I'm okay with that, like I should be, but I'll probably be flamed for my main reason being something other than how "progressive" it is. That reason, of course, being that it means that The Doctor won't get any romantic tension with Bill, which seems to be the case for about half the revival companions (Donna being the most notable exception).

    Side note: the climax of the first episode is another indicator that Moffat just doesn't care about consistency with the classic series, but pretends that he does.
    Spoiler: The scene in question is clearly meant to be set sometime before the events of Destiny Of The Daleks, but yet the Daleks are clearly the modern Daleks instead of the Tom Baker-era Daleks. There should be no excuse for this, as the beginning of the last season showed that almost all Dalek variants are still around.

    First episode was slow, second isn't exactly the best. Feels like the season is going to be a bit of a mess, at least in the beginning. Next episode might be interesting, though.

    EDIT: Just watched the second episode of Class, which seems to be more interesting than the first two episodes of Season 10.
    Last edited by Patrick_Nicholas; 04-24-2017 at 03:44 PM.

  2. #572
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    Just watched the latest episode and had pretty much already known that I was going to come here with another rant I know most people will ignore. This is about The Master and how (s)he's been handled in the Capaldi era.

    Missy comes off to me as a Mary-Sue due to her sins being swept under the rug so the plot can bend over backwards to give her an alliance with The Doctor. It's like her sins were deliberately made forgivable so he wouldn't want to personally oversee her punishment, by allowing the plots to get happy(ish) endings so he wouldn't have to hold them against her next time they meet. Create an army of Cybermen to take over the world with? Well, Danny Pink's love for Clara is strong enough to override cyber-conversion (because the plot says so, that's why) and make a grand heroic sacrifice, so lets all forget about that! Kill Osgood? Indirectly trigger a Zygon invasion as a result? Well, the link was restored through a peaceful resolution to the conflict, so let's completely ignore the one whose actions triggered the invasion in the first place! Try to trick The Doctor into killing his beloved Clara? The Doctor simply slaps her on the wrist with something along the lines of "Well, you can't come with us in the TARDIS, even though you always manage to escape somehow" instead of temporarily holding her prisoner in the TARDIS (Like what Ten wanted to do at the end of Season 3) while correcting the mistake he made that led to her getting another opportunity to backstab him, and then turning her over to the Judoon to actually punish her. Oh, and we can now forget about THAT now that Clara is no longer around!

    Oh, and now The Doctor is ready to forgive The Master, who is conveniently just now starting to feel bad about the atrocities (s)he has committed over the past several centuries (presumably including the classic series and the RTD era). Her repentance doesn't sound very convincing to me, and Ten has also forgiven The Master before The Master had one last round of evil before becoming Missy, so it's still possible that Missy may get one last chance to fuck with Twelve before his regeneration. But then again, Moffat's reasons for making The Master a woman are obviously to have a cheap plot twist to boost ratings for the Season 8 finale, and to advertise Doctor/Master as his OTP if he had to choose one that wasn't one of his own characters (like Clara or River), as if RTD didn't do more or less the same thing in Season 3 while keeping The Master a man and unambiguously evil.

    I've pretty much stated a few pages back that I'd be okay with The Mistress if something other than shipping could be done with her, like, say, using the existence of her new reproductive organs to want to wipe out all life besides her and The Doctor to manipulate him into repopulating the universe with a new generation of Time Lords. I know the plot sounds too sexual for this alleged "family show", though I just realized something similar might work as a Torchwood plot (if you replace The Doctor with Captain Jack, and Missy with a female immortal [preferably one that does not resemble a teenage girl like Ashildr]).

    Sorry about the rant, but I've been anticipating a waste of The Master for a while. Things definitely seemed heading in that direction since two episodes earlier, The Doctor refused to execute her because she's his "friend" (not that it would be out of character for The Doctor to do that without the "friend" justification).

  3. #573
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    I'm not even gonna debate or carry on but the last three episodes were some of the worst episodes I've seen from 2005 Doctor Who. Painfully long, boring and dull. It's in the leagues with Sleep No More for one of the worst. I've enjoyed this season a lot but those last 3 episodes...what the fuck happened? Awful.

  4. #574
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    Just finished watching the season finale while it's still less than a day old in my time zone. This is definitely the weakest season of the Capaldi era. There were some decent episodes, but none that would rank very high in my list of favorite revival episodes. The overall quality is still better Matt Smith's last season, which, not counting the specials at the end, really only had one episode I liked ("Nightmare In Silver", and even that's not one of my higher-ranking episodes). Each season has its good episodes and its bad episodes, with even my least favorite season (season 6) being the one with "The Doctor's Wife".

    And now my thoughts on the season finale:

    Spoiler: Not counting Cyber-Bill, and aside from pretty much killing The Doctor Pretty much the only things the Cybermen do on screen are march and get blown up, and they only get a handful of lines. Moffat and co. went out of their way to bring back the Cybus Cybermen, only to give them less than two minutes of screen time and not a single line of dialogue.

    And then come the Masters. It's good to bring back Missy's predecessor, and have him choose to remain unambiguously evil, but yet The Doctor has to run into him by going out of his way to get Missy to turn good, which would be considered a suicidal move if he dared attempt this with one of the classic series Masters. The Doctor reeeeaally ought to know better than to trust The Master, childhood promise or no childhood promise. Not helped that he seems to have chosen to ignore The Master's countless atrocities by brushing them off as if they're somehow no worse than simply killing an animal for food, along the lines of: "You eat meat, so you have no right to call someone a murderer, even if 'murderer' is an understatement describing that someone. This rebuttal was brought to you by PETA!" A shame Bill wasn't around to witness said atrocities, or else she probably would have made a rebuttal to his rebuttal. I'd be here all day if I attempted to list The Master's atrocities, but the classic series shows enough of them to back up my point.

    PS - You'd think The Doctor would at least try to disarm the guy pointing a gun at Bill, since Doc does show his karate skills later in the episode, rather than just trying to talk the guy into putting the gun down.

    The Mistress was ultimately used to prove The Doctor right, in that Spoiler: She actually does "turn good", despite defying that at the beginning of season 9 like with the male Master throughout this episode. The most iconic independent villain in the franchise had his balls removed literally and figuratively, most likely so Moffat can pretend that real evil doesn't exist in the Whoniverse after remembering that Doctor Who is supposed to be a family show (which probably also explains why there haven't been as many on-screen deaths lately) and also that he wants to have her hook up with The Doctor, but has to kill her off because he's leaving. So much more could have been done with The Mistress if Moffat had the balls to get his hands dirty with her, rather than tone down her evils to pander to the fanfic writers and/or Moral Guardians and occasionally use BBC money to give us glorified fanfics himself.

    Oh, and yet another thing. How the hell does Bill not know what a Cyberman is? Not recognizing the original Cybermen is one thing, but she doesn't recognize modern Cybermen either. Where the hell was she during the events of "Death In Heaven" or the last five minutes of "Army Of Ghosts" when full-scale Cybermen invasions were launched? I thought she was from the present day. I'd like her better if she actually was from the 80s, as some have initally guessed (not least because of the show's use of time travel to actually pick up companions from somewhere other than Present-Day Earth, as demonstrated with multiple classic companions and more recently with Nardole). Even if she still was from the 80s, she would still have to have heard of the Cybermen before (despite them looking different) due to them having invaded Earth multiple times in that decade. The way people on this show just forget about aliens the moment they stop invading can get really annoying at times.

    Bill was never my favorite companion, matter of fact I prefer s8/s9 Clara on Clara's good days, but it's good that Moffat didn't advertise the last primary companion as the most important woman in the universe for once, though RTD was guilty of doing that as well.

    /rant

  5. #575
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    The season took a nose dive after the episode with the house and tenants. I enjoyed every episode until the one that followed it. From that point on the show got terrible and lazy. I hope the Christmas Special is good and shows a good regeneration. Here's to hoping the next season is better. I hate what became of Capaldi's last season. I quite like the Twelfth Doctor.

  6. #576
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    Introducing the Thirteenth Doctor...



    I knew it was only a matter of time until they did this. I'm, personally, not very pleased and would rather have kept him a male but it is what it is. I had no issues with The Master becoming The Mistress but the Doctor being a woman will be odd overall. I guess it'll shake up the formula though.


    @Patrick_Nicholas what do you think?

  7. #577
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    @Space Suicide why? what problem do you have with the doctor being a woman? like, literally, i want to know exactly what issue you have with it. because i'm crying my eyes out i'm so happy about it, because it's about fucking time.

  8. #578
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    I only have a problem with it if it becomes all about her gender. Or if they Ghostbusters it. Other than that I don't care. But that will be down to shit writing, not her.


    Plus, in the right hands a pregnant doctor story line could be really awesome. It could also really, really suck in the wrong hands.

    What's the new show runner like? Is he decent?

  9. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Suicide View Post
    Introducing the Thirteenth Doctor...



    I knew it was only a matter of time until they did this. I'm, personally, not very pleased and would rather have kept him a male but it is what it is. I had no issues with The Master becoming The Mistress but the Doctor being a woman will be odd overall. I guess it'll shake up the formula though.


    @Patrick_Nicholas what do you think?
    Well, I was literally just about this while logging in.


    I'm probably going to be branded sexist for not being absolutely overjoyed about this, but 50+ years into the shows history, we now have to use longer sentences to describe The Doctor in general or else we'd be branded sexist.

    Examples:

    The Doctor and his-or-her companion(s) travel through time and space in a box that's bigger on the inside.
    The Doctor uses his-or-her Sonic Screwdriver for multiple purposes.
    The Doctor uses his-or-her moral code to justify not just killing his-or-her enemies, no matter how vile.

    If you dare omit the "or her" part, even out of habit if you've been a longer fan (I've only been one for about four years, getting in during the tail end of Matt Smith's run, but have watched enough classic episodes and red through various articles on the web, including on TV Tropes) , that automatically makes you sexist. And don't you dare want any future Doctors to be male ever, because it's sexist to replace a woman under any circumstances. Essentially, anything and everything can trigger a flame war now. I honestly would have preferred if they went for a black Doctor, but the feminists have been more vocal about what they want their Doctor to be, and would throw endless flame wars regardless of who the new Doctor is.

    I can only hope that Chris Chibnall doesn't romanticize the Thirteenth Doctor the way Moffat romanticized The Mistress. If the Thirteenth Doctor's companion is male, I hope Chris doesn't get them romantically involved (I'd prefer the male companion to be gay, just to make sure they don't go there) the way both RTD and Moffat have (though at least RTD had an excuse). I hope the script treats the female Doctor the same way most writers not named Steven Moffat have treated the male Doctors, by giving The Doctor characterization well beyond gender and not put her at the center of the fucking universe, and have characters (male or female) be able to carry out conversations in which The Doctor is not the subject of virtually every sentence, unlike in certain Moffat episodes (*cough* A Good Man Goes To War *cough*). The choice that has been chosen cannot be unchosen (without resulting in endless flame wars) so I just want the writers to not really care that The Doctor is becoming a woman.

    We do live in an age where everyone is offended by everything, so I am absolutely anticipating the years and years of flame wars to come.


    Quote Originally Posted by GibbonBlack View Post
    What's the new show runner like? Is he decent?
    Chris Chibnall was the de-facto head writer for Torchwood's first two seasons (RTD, while technically the showrunner throughout, only wrote the first episode of that era) so we can still guess how things may be handled based on his scripts. How he'll call the shots, though, is something we'll have to wait to see.
    Last edited by Patrick_Nicholas; 07-16-2017 at 12:06 PM. Reason: Another user came in while I was writing my post

  10. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by eversonpoe View Post
    @Space Suicide why? what problem do you have with the doctor being a woman? like, literally, i want to know exactly what issue you have with it. because i'm crying my eyes out i'm so happy about it, because it's about fucking time.
    Just taking an established character of nearly 55 years to turn it on its ear just seems so out of the blue and random in the grand scheme of things. I was actually a fan of Missy and Gomez portraying the role so my issue isn't about portrayals or the actual thought of it being a woman. I have grown attached to a male character for the role. I know the character adapts and changes through each incarnation and even though the last few versions haven't been my ideal cup of tea for the character I still enjoyed them for their own reasons. I might love Whittaker and what they do with the show, I don't know.

    I'm just adjusted and attached to the kindly older gentleman and grandfather type character he's been. Hartnell, Pertwee, Capaldi, etc.

  11. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbonBlack View Post
    I only have a problem with it if it becomes all about her gender.
    I'M going to be pissed if it becomes all about her gender, too. the whole reason i'm excited for a female doctor is so she can be just as kick-ass and brilliant as any other doctor has been.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick_Nicholas View Post
    Well, I was literally just about this while logging in.


    I'm probably going to be branded sexist for not being absolutely overjoyed about this, but 50+ years into the shows history, we now have to use longer sentences to describe The Doctor in general or else we'd be branded sexist.

    Examples:

    The Doctor and his-or-her companion(s) travel through time and space in a box that's bigger on the inside.
    The Doctor uses his-or-her Sonic Screwdriver for multiple purposes.
    The Doctor uses his-or-her moral code to justify not just killing his-or-her enemies, no matter how vile.
    have you heard of this nifty word called "they" that works as a gender-neutral pronoun, both singular and plural? it's really handy.

    for example:

    "The Doctor and their companion(s) travel through time and space in a box that's bigger on the inside.
    The Doctor uses their Sonic Screwdriver for multiple purposes.
    The Doctor uses their moral code to justify not just killing their enemies, no matter how vile."

    so that's a bullshit thing to be upset about.

    I can only hope that Chris Chibnall doesn't romanticize the Thirteenth Doctor the way Moffat romanticized The Mistress. If the Thirteenth Doctor's companion is male, I hope Chris doesn't get them romantically involved (I'd prefer the male companion to be gay, just to make sure they don't go there) the way both RTD and Moffat have (though at least RTD had an excuse). I hope the script treats the female Doctor the same way most writers not named Steven Moffat have treated the male Doctors, by giving The Doctor characterization well beyond gender and not put her at the center of the fucking universe, and have characters (male or female) be able to carry out conversations in which The Doctor is not the subject of virtually every sentence, unlike in certain Moffat episodes (*cough* A Good Man Goes To War *cough*). The choice that has been chosen cannot be unchosen (without resulting in endless flame wars) so I just want the writers to not really care that The Doctor is becoming a woman.
    as for this part, i mostly agree with you. and that's why i'm excited to have a doctor that's a woman. i don't see that missy was romanticized, though, i thought she was fucking brilliant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Space Suicide View Post
    Just taking an established character of nearly 55 years to turn it on its ear just seems so out of the blue and random in the grand scheme of things. I was actually a fan of Missy and Gomez portraying the role so my issue isn't about portrayals or the actual thought of it being a woman. I have grown attached to a male character for the role. I know the character adapts and changes through each incarnation and even though the last few versions haven't been my ideal cup of tea for the character I still enjoyed them for their own reasons. I might love Whittaker and what they do with the show, I don't know.

    I'm just adjusted and attached to the kindly older gentleman and grandfather type character he's been. Hartnell, Pertwee, Capaldi, etc.
    i don't think it's turning the character on its ear, i think it's just changing it up, just like having a different actor. people are so rigid about gender roles and all the bullshit surrounding them that they can't just step back and say "oh, this person's a great actor, i'm excited to see her play the doctor." idunno, it feels like a cop-out to me. not trying to vilify you, just trying to understand, i guess.

  12. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick_Nicholas View Post
    Well, I was literally just about this while logging in.


    I'm probably going to be branded sexist for not being absolutely overjoyed about this, but 50+ years into the shows history, we now have to use longer sentences to describe The Doctor in general or else we'd be branded sexist.

    Examples:

    The Doctor and his-or-her companion(s) travel through time and space in a box that's bigger on the inside.
    The Doctor uses his-or-her Sonic Screwdriver for multiple purposes.
    The Doctor uses his-or-her moral code to justify not just killing his-or-her enemies, no matter how vile.

    If you dare omit the "or her" part, even out of habit if you've been a longer fan (I've only been one for about four years, getting in during the tail end of Matt Smith's run, but have watched enough classic episodes and red through various articles on the web, including on TV Tropes) , that automatically makes you sexist.
    Not wanting to add 7 characters to a sentence is a mighty silly reason to not like this.

    Also, who are you haging around with that would care about that? Stop hanging around with them

  13. #583
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    You could just always use the gender-neutral pronoun "they" but apparently that's too hard.

    I'm incredibly excited. The amount of story potential alone is fascinating. This is the most interesting change to the formula in years.

  14. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbonBlack View Post
    Plus, in the right hands a pregnant doctor story line could be really awesome. It could also really, really suck in the wrong hands.
    Oh please god no -- I'm super about a female doctor (especially Jodie who is a phenomenal casting choice) but I would be so disappointed if they start writing "she's a woman now so this is going to be part of her experience!" storylines with a heavy hand. Like, motherhood does not need to be a potential plotline for a female character.

    The Doctor is also pretty clearly not-straight but they generally seem to like women more often (so on the straighter side of queer when a dude, but on the gayer side of queer if they were a lady), I really hope they don't undo this and make her more heteromantic now that she's a lady! Especially because she's very hot and I'd like to think women have a shot with her because I'm terrible. (She's so hot.)

    I'm super down with a female doctor BUT I don't like people acting like the gender of a timelord should be irrelevent. I think they're allowed to have preferences and I've always gotten the impression that The Doctor preferred being a guy. With 12, they did a lot of precedent setting to make this change make sense, and I'm here for it.

    I' *NOT* here for the butthurt sexism OR the people who don't give a shit about Doctor who butting in to celebrate a casting that they have no context for or care for the actual story of the series. Like, there are tons of people who have never cared about Doctor Who who've wanted the Doctor to be a woman, and fuck that as well. I don't think this is a token casting and I don't want tokenism just to get "progress." I think we're doing this the right way.
    Last edited by playwithfire; 07-16-2017 at 02:56 PM.

  15. #585
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    People are saying I should just use the word "they", nice!

    The point I was really trying to make was that anything and everything could trigger a flame war because The Doctor is now becoming a woman, ranging from using male pronouns out of habit to criticizing the female Doctor and/or her storylines in any way without hammering in every other sentence that the criticism is not because she's a woman. Feels like you absolutely must worship it, or else you're one of the "misogynistic haters". You have to choose your words very carefully, but I know that not everyone will. It's like you can no longer continue to enjoy the show, or even criticize anything about it like I have several times in this thread, without it being a political statement considering that this is probably the most major change to the show since The Doctor becoming the last of the Time Lords in the Ninth Doctor's backstory.

  16. #586
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    I mean, singular they has been used for centuries and its wider adoption into our language is pretty helpful.

    I dunno, I feel like people doing that kinda thing don't actually care about the show. Like, they set this change up. It makes sense. But I wonder how many people happy/mad about this have even seen the last season.

  17. #587
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    12 outright says they're well-past caring about gender in the most recent season. Saying they shouldn't do this because it has the possibility of causing discussions of gender and the treatment of women in media is a great argument for why they should be doing this. If creativity should be stifled by what might cause fans to argue then we should never have anything at all.

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    I'm excited, but I obviously can't say whether or not I'll like her in the role until we actually see what happens.

    I was never a big fan of Matt Smith's portrayal, and I've never watched any of Jodie's other work so I can't say yet whether or not I'll like her in the role.

    I know the doctor gets a new personality with each regeneration, but Matt's portrayal made him seem like an overgrown child, rather than the smart and thoughtful charecters we normally get. Hoping she sticks with thoughtful and clever, but we won't get to see that for some time I suppose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo View Post
    I've never watched any of Jodie's other work.
    You've never seen Attack the Block? You should get on that, it's a great little film!

  20. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo View Post
    I'm excited, but I obviously can't say whether or not I'll like her in the role until we actually see what happens.

    I was never a big fan of Matt Smith's portrayal, and I've never watched any of Jodie's other work so I can't say yet whether or not I'll like her in the role.

    I know the doctor gets a new personality with each regeneration, but Matt's portrayal made him seem like an overgrown child, rather than the smart and thoughtful charecters we normally get. Hoping she sticks with thoughtful and clever, but we won't get to see that for some time I suppose.
    Watch Broadchurch. Do it. Right now. First two seasons are on Netflix (at least, here in the States).

    Jodie Whittaker is a fucking fantastic actor. Literally the only reason I'm not blindly saying "this season will be amazing" is just because the show itself has gone largely downhill for me ever since 10 left. Just haven't liked the writing or stories as much (most of the time). But I am super stoked to see her cast at 13. I really hope that the direction is good and she's got great material to work with.

  21. #591
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    Broadchurch is on BBC America as well.

  22. #592
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    RIP Deborah Watling, Second Doctor companion Victoria Waterfield (The Evil Of The Daleks, The Tomb Of The Cybermen, The Abominable Snowmen, The Enemy Of The World).
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho...b-4ad93526374d


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