Active Member
it's not like the NRA doesn't spend anymore money than say big pharma oil companies or any of the other rich SOB's who have bribed and now own our government the thing is NRA members vote in numbers. so if you want sensible gun laws then we must fo the same. personally i fell we need a constitutional congress. it's over 200 years old. things yhe second amendment and lobbyist. need to be revisited. the powers that be don't want this because well their in power.
-Louie
Bite me
This kid was kicked out of this school for causing trouble, and was going to an "alternative" school. So he went and bought a gun, legally, plus a whole lot of other legal weapons (rifles, handguns, knives and stuff) and basically plotted his revenge. It's like "Heathers" but with big weapons. "Gun control" won't stop depressed and pissed-off people from exacting revenge; this IS very much like Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver.Originally Posted by Louie_Cypher
He could have just as easily gone online and learned how to build a bomb (ala Tim McVeigh). And with the TOTAL LACK of security at this school, he would have killed HUNDREDS instead of dozens. He could have easily walked into the school with a few pressure cooker bombs in a few back packs. (Except I don't think this kid was that smart.)
What we DO need is a SHITLOAD more security at schools.
When my husband and I were in Jr. High and High School in the 70s, pretty much ALL doors were locked for entry and exit except for one or two, and those had security guards at them; all halls were patrolled by hall monitors and you couldn't even walk down halls without passes to go to pee; you could never leave the building even for lunch without a confirmed parental note, the place was pretty much always on lock-down; and we each grew up in two separate fairly nice suburbs in two different states! We need to go back to that, but with metal detectors at every door, more security guards, cameras, NO backpacks, no bags, read everything online or keep all books at home, I don't give a fuck how inconvenienced we are, we have to make sure that all schools are SECURE AND SAFE while students are in them or on campus. Because this is going to happen, even WITH the strictest gun control laws available.
This school in Florida? Somebody (the shooter?) pulled the fire alarm, which opened all locked doors and sent all the students out into the open - making them TARGETS for the shooter. Edit: apparently, the “alarm” was a “code red” alarm for a shooter but many students and faculty didn’t know the difference between that and a fire drill.
Some of the teachers tried locking themselves and the kids in the rooms but some of the rooms had DOORS THAT DIDN'T LOCK. At least one teacher was shot to death when he transferred his kids from one unlocked room to a room where he had to lock the kids IN the room using a KEY (and he was then shot to death). Edit: this info gets worse, see below post with WaPo story.
The shooter shot a ton of people and then LEFT THE BUILDING. He was found BLOCKS away after he had lunch at McDonald’s.
This was a total clusterfuck that was avoidable.
See this: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/558233...oot-up-school/
It might have been a good idea to amp up security at school knowing that this kid was loaded for bear and had a vendetta against the school? YA THINK? He had lost both of his parents, he was depressed, he was described as an "outcast," and students characterized him as somebody likely to "shoot up the school." Didn't any of them think to alert teachers or authorities? We need education programs to teach students to tell people when they see this stuff.
Last edited by allegro; 02-16-2018 at 12:28 AM.
24.24.2.2866
@allegro that has me curious now, do you have any data on mass killings from home made bombs?
Bite me
Here is a link. Here is another link.
The World Trade Center attacks are counted as bombing attacks because they used airplanes fully loaded with fuel as giant bombs.
When they search you at various venues around the country, they aren't just looking for guns; they're actually looking for pressure cookers and other explosive devices.
Last edited by allegro; 02-15-2018 at 06:19 PM.
Bite me
Story about missed or ignored warnings: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...215-story.html
tempus est umbra in mente
I want the adoptive parents to answer some questions that might just clear the air on the manner in which they're washing their hands here... questions like "what is your personal take on gun ownership? In general?" A lot of this blustering defensive stuff reeks of defending AR15 ownership moreso than excusing their obliviousness
Bite me
His adoptive parents are dead. He was living with a friend’s parents. He’s also NINETEEN.
See this: http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...htmlstory.html
And this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-in-free-fall/
Ugh, God, this is horrifying, and clears up a lot of prior misinformation:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...e81_story.html
Last edited by allegro; 02-16-2018 at 12:21 AM.
Active Member
Dammit. These kids - hell, this country - shouldn't have to deal with this any longer.
I notice that the "you can pry it from my cold dead fingers" guys are missing today.
Bite me
the Russians aren’t helping:
https://www.wired.com/story/pro-gun-...land-shooting/
Bite me
Florida’s gun laws are too loose. You can’t buy a handgun until you’re 21, but you can buy an AR-15 at 18. We need some sensible national training requirements, sensible national age restrictions, sensible centralized databases, but we also need the Feds to do their fucking job.
Young people will bring this change. Old farts will die off unchanged.
There is no perfect solution, though. Stigmatizing the mentally ill or turning this into a police state against mental illness won’t help. A mental illness witch hunt won’t help. Being required to report every trip to a psychiatric or psychological physician to a government database isn’t freedom.
Yes, the FBI fucked this up. But we don’t want to be living in a surveillance state, either.
We ARE, however, living in a day when the FBI should be actively surveilling ALL social media and tracing all accounts. Children are being sold via sex trafficking through Facebook and Instagram. Guns are sold illegally via Facebook.
Last edited by allegro; 02-16-2018 at 04:57 PM.
Bite me
I agree.
Active Member
You at least present an argument for your POV.
Member
Well, there's some people now targeting Marco Rubio for his affiliation to the NRA with three billboards: https://www.avclub.com/gun-law-prote...lbo-1823094016
Too Privileged to Get It
Meanwhile, Rick Scott (my bad, read the story to quickly this morning) is calling on the FBI director to resign over the FBI dropping the ball on the shooter. This is all going to get a lot messier.
Last edited by Demogorgon; 02-17-2018 at 09:07 AM. Reason: wrong politician
Active Member
Rubio can shove his dick up his own ass. I admittedly haven't read much on this, but I would be surprised to learn that the director of the entire FBI is the one responsible for ONE person in the entire agency fucking up on a protocol.
I was nobody. Nothing.
What i don't like is the knee-jerk reaction from the left (my side of the spectrum) that basically blames the GUN for the attack.
I swear, the older i get, the more alienated i feel in terms of politics.
I was nobody. Nothing.
i think Rubio was just trying to make a point.
He also said "Just because these proposals would not have prevented these does not mean that we therefore raise our hands and say, ' 'Therefore, there's nothing we can do.' ".
Furthermore, he also furthermore said that lawmakers should focus on "the violence part" of policy making."
I disagree with a LOT of Rubio's ideas, but i'd GODdamn sure prefer him to the piece of shit currently in office.
Active Member
this will unfortunately be politicized by square head sponge pants hannity for demonizing the FBI and trump investigation,even though we're seeing now how wide spread it was and how it hasn't stopped continuing if not getting worse. it also. moves the narrative away from sensible gun laws, which I don't have an answer for, i really think we need to get money out of politics but like guns, that toothpaste is hard to get back into the tube, i feel we need to lower the return on investment, but that means honest public severing politicians, which I don't see happening. most positive view i have is maybe the trump disaster will make people do a little more effort in to finding out who they are sending into government. and it's not just republican's, both Nancy and Dianne need to go they do not represent the values of the constituents they serve and are figurative and literal DINO's Bernie was sabotaged because he wasn't about the banks and moneied interests. and the DNC feared they would lose their cushy jobs of deciding who produces the next TV ad and were it runs. I guess the short of it is get involved. I think the year zero ARG, was a great example of what the people on this board alone are capable of
-Louie
Last edited by Louie_Cypher; 02-17-2018 at 02:28 PM. Reason: monied even spell check was baffeled
Active Member
While I do have a strong personal aversion to gun ownership (not guns themselves -- I'll totally go to a shooting range, but gun ownership can sometimes make me uncomfortable because I grew up in an abusive household with a lot of guns), I'm also totally fine with responsible gun owners. I also support strict gun control. But, there does seem to be some conflict among folks with the idea that people can do both of those things. I just keep quiet about it, mostly, because in times like this, it's not the point.
Active Member
Too Privileged to Get It
This happened yesterday: http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index..._on_lockd.html This is pretty much right on my doorstep. Jackson Township is 5 minutes down the road.
Trollhunter
This walkout is a beautiful thing. Likely not effective (yet) but a good start. I hope these kids stay this angry and active once they are able to vote.
Active Member
they called obama an empty suit trump is an empty roll of toilet paperGod damn I love having government is so transparent about how bad they are at everything. Obama promised transparency. Trump brought it.
Trump didn't intend to, but results speak so much louder than feelings and intent. I don't have to argue with anyone about anything. The results are blatant to many. Except the wacky Trump extremists who are just laughable.
-Louie
I was nobody. Nothing.
Edit: moved to police misconduct thread.
Last edited by elevenism; 02-22-2018 at 09:17 PM.
FATUM NOS IUNGET
Colossal pile of human garbage Martin Shkreli sentenced to 7 years in prison. Apparently he was crying during the sentencing.
My vote is they do it like the Wu-Tang album...should've had one camera allowed, recorded him crying, put it to DVD, and auctioned it off with the money going to the research he tried to fuck people out of. I bet my mortgage some celebrity would straight go off on bid, haha.
Bite me
wow, that's funny, I saw one of those videos and maybe I'm just way too cynical but the first thing I thought wasn't "wow, that guy sure is a great guy who ruined his AR-15 against violence" but instead i thought "wow, he just created a sawed-off shotgun."
On YouTube.
Active Member
The one video I saw had the guy actually destroying the gun, or so I thought. Was this effective or did the dude just make an SBR here?
24.24.2.2866
Found this on popular mechanics about what @DigitalChaos was talking about.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...n-viral-video/
Active Member
That's true to a degree, but efforts are made to ascertain and address root causes. But even if solutions are found, there's going to be a long period whereby the effects generates up until now will cause problems.
The only reason to not tweak gun laws would be if you had a solution to all the root causes that would immediately take effect.
The anti control brigade just seem to deal in denial. The vast majority just will not concede there is a connection between availability and incidents. They are not stupid, it's just culturally ingrained, it's a reality tunnel. I don't for a second believe the liberal/pro control line that these people just view spree killings as the price of their freedom to bear arms. For that to be true, they would have to be in reception of causality (and stupid, callous assholes), I just don't believe that is the case
But if the pro control lobby build their arguments from such assumptions, it will go nowhere. As you say, the two extremes play tug of war and nothing ultimately happens. Twas ever thus
Active Member
I'm not saying just do something to make me feel better, I genuinely think that more controls would lessen the danger your country is currently in. There are working models around the world, I point to their lack of incidents and your abundance, and I draw a connection - at least in part - to availability. I just don't think that is an audacious leap
I'm afraid your addiction analogy doesn't work for me, as the dynamics of the two problems are totally different. Not every issue can be transposed like that, even if it has a poetry that sings to our logical faculties. Prohibition of drugs is an ongoing failure in all but the most authoritarian states. Gun control works in very liberal societies. The core issue (prohibition) is the same in both, but in reality the respective control models play out very differently.
Spree shootings in America spiked in the past 20 years, why? A myriad reasons, all of which need to be addressed. But one reason is that mentally ill people keep getting hold of weapons. They should not be able to. Yes, we should also address mental health and do more to tackle that - but you are allowed to tackle more than one thing, you don't have to choose one issue and declare that the root cause at the expense of other concerns.
With the speed limit analogy, the simple fact is society and the economy would suffer hugely if we set the speed limit so low (logistics would be in serious trouble, for example). So yes, we do kind of callously accept road deaths as collateral. But you wouldn't get disastrous economic repercussions on the same scale if you tightened background checks and banned certain firearms.
I personally don't believe proliferation is inevitable, and also I don't believe a swathe of your society would ever accept that it was, even if it was. I would be very interested to hear what you believe the root causes are, and why you believe control models in Europe do work over there, but wouldn't work in America
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