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  1. #3271
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    I’ve fired semi auto many many times and I can’t figure out how I could pull a trigger over and over and over THAT quickly.
    Thats the trick with bump fire and similar mechanisms that obey the legal definition of semi-auto: one trigger pull = one fire. If you hold your finger perfectly still at the edge of where the trigger engages, you can leverage the rebound of the gun to push the trigger into your finger. I've seen people with a decent amount of fat on them pull it off without any help. The recoil pushes into them, then their shoulder fat pushes the gun back. Otherwise there are various mechanisms that can be used to help achieve it. It's pretty universally viewed as nothing more than a way to waste ammo in a fun way though. There are a lot of various ways of achieving "fake full auto" like this that obey the letter of the law behind what is/isn't full auto.

    I guess my point is that this would be an important distinction that will have different repercussions moving forward. And based on the sound in the video, my knowledge is saying this won't legally qualify as a full auto. But they guy did have like 10 guns, so who knows what each one was. I am sure we will discover more going forward. It usually takes a few days for these things to stabilize. The cops are still looking for cars of interest, the social media profiles are taken down, etc.

    edit: general explanation of bump fire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB1QlHtOWCQ
    Last edited by DigitalChaos; 10-02-2017 at 02:48 PM.

  2. #3272
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  3. #3273
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    That's how we do it now. Everyone wants in on a tragedy before they even know what happened. They want to further their personal motives, not understand or solve anything.
    emphasis for multiple posters

  4. #3274
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    emphasis for multiple posters
    I think it's a pretty innate human desire, when something senseless like this happens that isn't from a natural disaster or natural causes, to want to know "why." It just human nature. It happens, it's always happened, it's always going to happen.

    I was just telling G that I remember (as I've stated on this board, before) being afraid to go to a McDonald's for, like, A YEAR after the San Ysidro McDonald's Massacre in 1984.

    That shooter had:

    "a 9mm Browning HP semi-automatic pistol, a 9mm Uzi carbine, a Winchester 12 gauge pump-action shotgun, and a cloth bag filled with hundreds of rounds of ammunition for each weapon."

    Within a week after that, I went to the nearby McDonald's for lunch during work, and sat near an exit and mentally prepared an "escape" route. Because seeing something like that affects everybody. But, here we are, 33 years later, and it just gets worse, we're used to it, now, really.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-02-2017 at 03:48 PM.

  5. #3275
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    I'm on a tour with another major country artist right now, and we were just finishing our show when this news broke. We're all thankful that our friends and colleagues on the crew made it out safely (albeit scarred for life), but we're also absolutely gutted that someone would do this and our hearts ache for the fans who don't get to go home. As it is, we already had daily emergency plans emailed to us so we knew exit locations, meeting points, contacts, etc, but already we're being told that things will be changing for the remaining shows on our schedule.

    I won't speculate on motive or anything like that. But what I do want to ask is why are all the news networks on this and only this now? This was a horrific, tragic event. But there's news in the rest of the world (including at home) that is now being completely ignored on TV. Why? So they can show the same YouTube clips over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

    No new developments. No new announcements. Literally just repeating themselves ad nauseam. It's like these anchors have a fucking erection for this shit. I get it. It's important to cover. But sometimes when you don't have anything to say, try to talk about other things that matter instead of repeating yourself for hours on end.

  6. #3276
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Edit: wait, the guy had CAMERAS in the hall? I guess it took over an hour for the cops to find him, and he was already dead when they stormed the room.
    yeah, and apparently he used a hammer (or similar) to smash out the windows. Curious choice.

    Looks like the press is picking up on the *potential* that he didn't have truly automatic weapons: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...semi-automatic

    If any legislation comes from this, and the legislation also focuses on this situation (as opposed to the usual unrelated gun control that someone has had ready for the next shooting)... I see 2 potentials: 1 - he had full auto and fuckall happens because full auto is already as regulated as you can get it. 2 - he used a bump fire (or similar) mechanism. In that case, so few gun owners give a shit about them for anything important. That would very easily be a sacrifice people are willing to make. ... We all know there will be no changes to the benefit of healthcare/mental health, etc (even if it is applicable here).


    I still don't understand the entire response of the crowd though, like you were talking about. I saw one due standing up with his arms open and he was taunting the shooter. Another girl was full instagram streaming mode while bullets rained down and talked about how fucked up it was. Every crowd seems to have a different response in high stress scenarios, its odd. I'm not sure if it's culture, or just the phenomena of group-influenced responses propagating through everyone. I'm not judging, just trying to understand why there is a pretty large difference.

    @theimage13 - yeah im not sure. I'm kind of hoping they have learned that all the press coverage simply motivates new incidents and they are waiting for more clarity. But i have seen several main stream news segments covering this. IMO, Catalonia needs to be getting the most coverage right now.
    Last edited by DigitalChaos; 10-02-2017 at 04:06 PM.

  7. #3277
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    I still don't understand the entire response of the crowd though
    What's not to understand? It was the end of a country music festival. There were a LOT of drunk people there. People act / react in strange ways when they're drunk. It really doesn't go any deeper than that.

  8. #3278
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    What's not to understand? It was the end of a country music festival. There were a LOT of drunk people there. People act / react in strange ways when they're drunk. It really doesn't go any deeper than that.
    lmao, i guess. Never been to one but it makes sense. That shit is like.... punch the dirty dishes drunk though.

    I just hate crowds and want to understand how to avoid the bad aspects of them. I'll just stick to avoiding them for now. :/

  9. #3279
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    What's not to understand? It was the end of a country music festival. There were a LOT of drunk people there. People act / react in strange ways when they're drunk. It really doesn't go any deeper than that.
    I think there are several factors, here:

    1) Lots of people there have never heard the sound of machine-gun or rapid-fired guns, even on TV, and they just couldn't connect the dots because it wasn't in their experience (I've heard "fireworks" LOTS of times and frankly it NEVER sounded like that, but when sound is bouncing all around the buildings and people never saw war coverage or war movies, it probably doesn't connect);

    2) I saw some people on TV saying they were instinctively looking up toward the Mandalay Bay and saw "green lights" coming out of a window, but the lights weren't matching the sounds, and they didn't put two-and-two together until much later (that light travels much faster than sound);

    3) Yes, and add a LOT of beer to all of that. It may be why the shooter waited so long, ugh.

    Also, I guess there was a big fence surrounding all of them, like most festivals, so they were trapped and had to climb over fences to get out, so the shooter was easily just shooting fish in a barrel. Idiot news commentators saying "he must have had tremendous aim" ... wtf, no, he had over 22,000 people locked in a giant pen and he had high-powered rifles with ammo that could travel over a mile, so he just needed to spray a bunch of bullets, he probably could have worn a fucking blindfold and shot a shitload of people.


    @DigitalChaos , yeah, avoiding crowds has been my solution for a while. We go to CLASSICAL outdoor concerts, now, and they're searching everybody's bags for pressure cooker bombs. Really old people there don't get it, this is totally new to them; but we've been getting frisked and practically getting cavity-searched at club shows for many years. It's the world in which we live.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-02-2017 at 04:23 PM.

  10. #3280
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    Random General Headlines

    "Two officials familiar with the investigation say authorities found at least 17 guns in the hotel room of the Las Vegas shooter.

    Stephen Paddock also had two devices that are attached to the stocks of semi-automatic guns to allow fully automatic gunfire. The bump-stock devices have attracted scrutiny in recent years from authorities." - AP
    Welp.


    Also, Looks like his dad was on the FBI most wanted list decades ago, if you believe that has any influence on the resulting children.

  11. #3281
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Also, Looks like his dad was on the FBI most wanted list decades ago, if you believe that has any influence on the resulting children.
    Nearly SIXTY years ago, I think this is just a dopey red herring.

    Now it ends up this shooter IS A MULTI-MILLIONAIRE real estate investor.

    Okay, so he did use a bump-stock device to mimic full-auto.

    G is saying that the TV is reporting that the guy had TRIPODS for the guns.

    http://www.kwch.com/content/news/Isl...449071193.html

    "Guns & Guitars general manager Christopher Sullivan said in a statement Monday that 64-year-old Stephen Craig Paddock showed no signs of being unfit to buy guns."

    1:25 p.m.

    A brother of Las Vegas shooter Stephen Craig Paddock says he was a multimillionaire who made much of his money investing in real estate.

    Eric Paddock told reporters Monday in Orlando that his brother was also an accountant for many years.

    He was not aware of his brother having any recent financial difficulties.

    Stephen Craig Paddock recently sent a walker by mail to his 90-year-old mother.

    The brother says the shooter collected coins when he was a child.

    Police have said the suspect killed at least 58 people in the worst mass shooting in recent U.S. history.
    I guess police also found ingredients for bombs in the guy's car.

    I just wish we could grok this guy's motive, he doesn't fit ANY profile at all.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-02-2017 at 06:15 PM.

  12. #3282
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    Potential actually helpful gun control legislation could include: No more gun shows. No sales over the internet. Increase the waiting period. More effective and standardized background screening, including private sales. Mental health screening. Limit the number of firearms a person can own. No more hollow tip or other specialized bullets. No more concealed carry. Limit all magazines to 10 bullets or less. Mandatory insurance. Mandatory licensing. Strictest controls possible on guns that self-feed or are semi-auto. Possible GPS tracking that calls LEO if tampered with.

    Anyway, that's the dream board. I'd be happy with 1/10th of that, some sort of actual shift instead of toothlessness. Just something, like with healthcare, that brings us up to speed with the rest of the developed world.

    Conservatives are going to have to get over this "too soon to talk about it" garbage.

  13. #3283
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    I agree with some of that, but no concealed carry hurts people who are trying to legally protect themselves. And mental health screening is overly broad and would need to be narrowed down. Limit to number of guns owned makes sense to ME but these collectors won’t like it. Too hard to please everyone, that’s for sure. I do think waiting periods and training should be mandatory but that wouldn’t have stopped the Vegas shooting, nor would mental health screening. I HATE internet sales and private sales. But this guy bought his guns legally at gun stores. I don’t know an answer. “Ban guns” is about as possible in this country as banning obesity.

  14. #3284
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    In the videos I've seen (and heard), the shooting starts while the music is still playing. So I've tried listening to the audio only and if I had been in that audience, I would have probably thought that the first couple of seconds of the shooting was a snare drum roll because that would have been the closest sound I could associate with that particular gun fire. I've never been around guns in my life so I don't know what they sound like in real life (I know what they sound like in films and on tv though).

    It's now evident that this was a very carefully planned event. As to the "why": I don't believe there will ever be a "satisfying" answer to "why". Whatever was going on in this person's mind would make no sense to us anyway.

    I've heard someone mentioned the 1966 University of Texas tower shooting on CNN and what's interesting about it is that the shooter, Charles Whitman left documents behind implying he did not know "why" he was doing it, just that he "had" to do it. He even went as far as asking for an autopsy to be performed on himself. Turned out he had a small brain tumor that may or may not have contributed to his actions.

  15. #3285
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    Quote Originally Posted by marodi View Post
    I've heard someone mentioned the 1966 University of Texas tower shooting on CNN and what's interesting about it is that the shooter, Charles Whitman left documents behind implying he did not know "why" he was doing it, just that he "had" to do it. He even went as far as asking for an autopsy to be performed on himself. Turned out he had a small brain tumor that may or may not have contributed to his actions.
    Wow, that痴 really interesting.

  16. #3286
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    Sarah Fuckabee Sanders today repeated an oft-repeated bunch of bullshit about Chicago:

    "I think if you look to Chicago ... they have the strictest gun laws in the country. That certainly hasn't helped there."
    Except WE DON'T HAVE THE STRICTEST GUN LAWS, NOT EVEN CLOSE. DIDN'T YOU GET THE FUCKING MEMO???

    Chicago's gun ban was overturned in 2010 by the SCOTUS Heller decision as well as the McDonald vs. City of Chicago SCOTUS decision.

    See this.

    And Gary Indiana is less than a 25 minute drive from south Chicago; Indiana has REALLY loose gun laws.

    So, really, people, if you're gonna use Chicago as an example, think again. The newest FBI stats on the most dangerous cities in America don't even have Chicago in the Top Ten. Because per capita is important.

  17. #3287
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Sarah Fuckabee Sanders today repeated an oft-repeated bunch of bullshit about Chicago:



    Except WE DON'T HAVE THE STRICTEST GUN LAWS, NOT EVEN CLOSE. DIDN'T YOU GET THE FUCKING MEMO???

    Chicago's gun ban was overturned in 2010 by the SCOTUS Heller decision as well as the McDonald vs. City of Chicago SCOTUS decision.

    See this.

    And Gary Indiana is less than a 25 minute drive from south Chicago; Indiana has REALLY loose gun laws.

    So, really, people, if you're gonna use Chicago as an example, think again. The newest FBI stats on the most dangerous cities in America don't even have Chicago in the Top Ten. Because per capita is important.
    Yes. There are gun shows and shops that purposely camp on the IN state border.

  18. #3288
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    Quote Originally Posted by polski View Post
    Yes. There are gun shows and shops that purposely camp on the IN state border.
    And strawmen purchasers buy guns at Indiana gun stores. Easily. And in Wisconsin, too. And southeast Wisconsin is like a nearby neighborhood of Chicago. Our Metra line goes to Kenosha.

    I suppose this discussion should be in this other thread.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-03-2017 at 12:38 PM.

  19. #3289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
    Thousands of Spanish riot cops are blocking Catalan voters from casting their vote at the referendum for independence, all across Catalunia. Catalan firemen try to protect the people. Things are getting very intense, at the heart of Europe.]

    I'm amazed at how badly the Spanish government have shot themselves in the foot. There has been a MASSIVE strike today in Catalonia, I worry things have taken a turn for the worse, I never thought the Ukraine situation would get as fucked as it did...if Catalonia just had the stupid referendum I'm fairly certain they would have remained....Spain would have come out looking way better.
    However I do get Spanish concern, if Spain lost Catalonia they would loose a huge chunk of their economy, the richest part of the country, and about 20 percent of their population.
    I'm convinced the only reason the UK government gave Scotland the referendum is because Scotland is of much smaller importance to the UK.nobody lives there only about 5 percent of the UK population, it makes a small fraction of our economy, if we lost Scotland it really would not make much difference at all, we would just have to find somewhere else to store our nukes and we wouldd look fucking tiny on the map, but geographic size has never really been much of an issue for the UK. in terms of money.

    Spain is a relatively new democracy too shit like this reminds me its only been 40 years since it was a fascist dictatorship, they solved the Galician crisis, but this seems different
    Last edited by Exocet; 10-03-2017 at 04:58 PM.

  20. #3290
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    Good Boy - Bad Bomb Sniffing Dog

    One particular quote from this story is insane though...

    Dogs in the corps have to be able to sniff out 19,000 explosive scents which they learn in an intensive 10-week training program, with 10 tests at the end.
    19,000 kinds of explosives?! WHAT?! I didn't even know there were that many things that could go boom. No wonder that pupper didn't want anything to do with this.

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