Silk Road seized by FBI. What does this do to the future of Tor & Bitcoins?

[Louie_Cypher]

The news here:http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/10/f...ed-mastermind/
What is a Tor?
Tor is a completely anonymous browser to surf the "deep web" https://www.torproject.org/
What is a Bitcoin? http://bitcoin.org/en/
Silk Road was a site in the "Deep Web" that delt mainly in drugs, that used a combination of Tor & Bitcoins, to insure complete anonymous transactions, people are reeling from this bust, Bitcoins dropped 20 bucks today.
The "Deep Web" has been associated with a lot of nefourious activities such as child porn, weapons, drugs, hacking, a place where anything goes. HackBB & Black Market Reloaded are still up even after this.
What does ETS think of Bitcoins, Tor & the "Deep Web"?
Oh BTW NSA, feel free to read my emails even I fall asleep to that shit.

[Fixer808]

Drugs? Fuck it. If people want to do 'em it's their own lookout, doesn't matter if it's weed or meth. Child porn? Crack the fuck down.

[Louie_Cypher]

I 100% agree with you fixer, maybe the question should be can we handle totally being anonymous on the net? There is a point where freedom becomes a liability, hell on Black Market Reloaded, you can buy CC's, guns, even hit men. Funny thing is Tor was & is sponsored by the State Department.
thanks for your feedback

[Charmingly Miserable]

I find the whole Tor/deep web stuff fascinating. Not because there are a bunch of pervs jerking off to children playing with puppies, but because those people exist and they need to get their fix somewhere. I'm down for anonymity but not for creepy shit. Also, the hit men stuff on there is, I think, kinda hilarious.

[DigitalChaos]

Not sure how I missed this thread. I've been a fan of bitcoins for about 3 years. They really aren't anonymous the way people always claim. The entire transaction history for every bitcoin ever exchanged is available. You have to be very conscious of this if you want to actually stay anonymous. Most people have a transaction that links back to their name via an online exchange or even a vendor that shipped something to you.

Anyway, I think the 600% rise in bitcoin value since this thread was made speaks quite a bit about the importance of Silk Road to the importance of bitcoin: very very little. Online drug trade has existed quite lucratively before bitcoin. Drug trade is a very different topic than bitcoin, but I will say that online drug trade is the closest thing to "winning the drug war" that anyone can get. Online drug trade doesn't bring all the associated crime of in person exchanges of physical money and drugs. Guns on the street, theft, violence, etc.

As for bitcoin, I've seen quite a few online startups become attracted to bitcoin just for the exchange aspect. No need for the lengthy signup process with a credit processor, very little transaction fee, and no ability for scammy charge-backs. I love it because it decentralizes money. Decentralization of most things is tantamount to freedom. The treasury, federal reserve, and the banks make tons of money off of you using the US Dollar. Fuck that. It is essentially reducing your income and handing a cut to the people who partake in the banking industry. Fortunately, they can't stop people from using using something like bitcoin. They can absolutely make it more difficult, but they can't stop it. Look at all the money the RIAA pours into "stopping music piracy." Enough said?

[icecream]

Wish I bought some bitcoin when the site was raided. They are so expensive now, would have been a good investment. It's crazy to read about people who bought them a while back and didn't realize how much they are worth now. This guy bought a condo from a 24$ bitcoin purchase in 09: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...184123863.html

[Louie_Cypher]

Yeah got I a few coins around 24$ and thought I was a financial genius for selling them @ 100$ <sad tombone>. I do think they are vulnerable to Social Engineering ie. a confidence scam, especially with all the new bit mining computer shops starting up.
-Louie

[icecream]

Yeah got I a few coins around 24$ and thought I was a financial genius for selling them @ 100$ <sad tombone>. I do think they are vulnerable to Social Engineering ie. a confidence scam, especially with all the new bit mining computer shops starting up.
-Louie

owowowowowowoww, That's gotta hurt. I don't know what to think of them yet. Maybe I should buy some? My econ prof says it's probably a bad investment at this point. But it's so tempting to potentially make thousands of dollars from them. There is even a store in Vancouver for them and a kiosk at a coffee shop to trade them.

[Charmingly Miserable]

Yeah. I don't know if jumping aboard the bit coin boat would be a good investment now. Can it climb any higher? Or will it crash? However, those who bought into it early were wise. I wish I knew about it during its infancy. It would have been a better investment than the Facebook IPO (not that I did that, just saying).

[icecream]

Yeah. I don't know if jumping aboard the bit coin boat would be a good investment now. Can it climb any higher? Or will it crash? However, those who bought into it early were wise. I wish I knew about it during its infancy. It would have been a better investment than the Facebook IPO (not that I did that, just saying).

Too bad it's hard to predict these things though. I bet if someone told me 4 years ago Bitcoin was going to be huge, I would have laughed at them... They seem to be massively popular in China though, so who knows. They might fall out of popularity here but still be big there. Might be worth it to track them for a few months before I buy some.

[DigitalChaos]

Wish I bought some bitcoin when the site was raided. They are so expensive now, would have been a good investment.

Revisit this quote in a few months. If BTC is at $10,000, you'll be kicking yourself


Making money by speculating really misses the point of Bitcoin though. Luckily, there is a finite amount of people willing to jump into it because of this. Once that levels out, we can start to see the real power.


My favorite Canadian philosopher explains it well:


Yes, there are some inaccuracies and hyperbolating, but it's a great intro to what the majority of Bitcoin participants AND skeptics are missing.

[icecream]

Revisit this quote in a few months. If BTC is at $10,000, you'll be kicking yourself


Making money by speculating really misses the point of Bitcoin though. Luckily, there is a finite amount of people willing to jump into it because of this. Once that levels out, we can start to see the real power.


My favorite Canadian philosopher explains it well:


Yes, there are some inaccuracies and hyperbolating, but it's a great intro to what the majority of Bitcoin participants AND skeptics are missing.

Very cool, I just watched the first 5 min or so but it sounds fascinating. I will definitely come back to this tonight.

[Sebek]

You know, I don't really know much about all this, but I watched the first 5 minutes of this video too, and the guy is going on and on about how safe bitcoins are... how they're unhackable, etc... on the same day that this story comes out: Bitcoin Heist: Millions Vanish from Online Black Market http://news.yahoo.com/bitcoin-heist-...175333383.html

[DigitalChaos]

Very cool, I just watched the first 5 min or so but it sounds fascinating. I will definitely come back to this tonight.

He doesnt even start the presentation until 11min in

[DigitalChaos]

You know, I don't really know much about all this, but I watched the first 5 minutes of this video too, and the guy is going on and on about how safe bitcoins are... how they're unhackable, etc... on the same day that this story comes out: Bitcoin Heist: Millions Vanish from Online Black Market http://news.yahoo.com/bitcoin-heist-...175333383.html

Your bitcoins are all stored in the distributed network. All you possess is basically a pointer. Without that pointer, nobody can "hack" into the network and take your coins. THIS is the real root of the argument. There are many ways for you to secure that pointer so that others cannot take it from you. You do NOT have to give it to a central authority to ensure it is safe/insured, much like you do with a bank filled with USD.



people GIVING their bitcoins to a website... and then the website running away with the coins... how does that translate to bitcoins being hacked or unsafe? Bitcoins don't stop people from doing stupid things with them. His point is that you can't forge or fake them. That's a common concern who hear "digital currency" and think you can just copy/paste coins like it were a picture. What is also great is that you can make backups of your money. If your house burns down with a bunch of cash in it, you are screwed. With bitcoins you just pull from another backup. If someone mugs you and takes your USD, you are screwed and the thief can spend your money. With bitcoins, they are useless to the thief (if you put a password on it) and you just pull from another backup. There is a growing group of homeless people who love bitcoin for this very reason.

[icecream]

He doesnt even start the presentation until 11min in

Doing away with financial systems, as he explained in the beginning sounded interesting to me. I don't know if bitcoins are the way of the future though. What he is saying makes sense. But what if I start my own online currency, it becomes as popular as bitcoin and then there are two dominant online currencies on the web? I didn't think his explanation really did a good job of arguing against it. Also, he puts too much faith in bitcoin users holding the currency as a way to purchase goods instead of holding them as an investment of sorts. Once they peak, everyone sell them off and it becomes useless without the demand for them, no? Regardless, it might be interesting to buy some now and hold it for a few months/to a year and make some short term money off of it. How can one even buy bitcoin?

[Louie_Cypher]

China bans businesses from using Bitcoins for transactions http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...nsactions.html Bitcoin drops 13%
I don't know how China will pull this off, also one of the largest Bitcoin mining operations is in Hong Kong

[Sutekh]

I was just reading a vice interview with the authors of narcomania, and they express skepticism about the security of tor/silk road, saying in all likelihood the police are letting it continue so they can get an idea of who uses it

some snot in the comments is like "fnar fnar, i dont THINK so"

Comment dated 2012... I lold

[icecream]

Aaaaaaaand it looks like bitcoin might be done for with that ban in China. Baidu stopped accepting them and now the prices are plummeting.
http://preev.com/ Track the prices in real time

[Louie_Cypher]

I was reading a few articles 1) a guy bought a new Tesla using Bitcoins 2) Because of fluctuation merchants have to turn them almost immediately, which means they will a problem being a legit currency

[icecream]

I was reading about a Ferrari dealership that has started accepting them. Even people accepting payments in bitcoin for homes. A university in Cyprus has allowed tuition to be paid in bitcoin. It does make it risky though, selling a car for 59 bitcoins at 1,100 dollars a coin and then having those same coins drop 30-35% in value over a few days. Maybe the price will stabalize in the future but if a country passing a single law can almost kill them... I may not get some. Maybe if they get dirt cheap again.

[Sutekh]

I was reading about a Ferrari dealership that has started accepting them. Even people accepting payments in bitcoin for homes. A university in Cyprus has allowed tuition to be paid in bitcoin. It does make it risky though, selling a car for 59 bitcoins at 1,100 dollars a coin and then having those same coins drop 30-35% in value over a few days. Maybe the price will stabalize in the future but if a country passing a single law can almost kill them... I may not get some. Maybe if they get dirt cheap again.

Is the university the UEL campus at nikosia by any chance

[Charmingly Miserable]

So with China pulling bitcoins out of the market and therefore resulting in plummeting prices, it is a no-brainer that bitcoins have become highly volatile. So maybe this is not the good time to get into the market. However, I think, like most risky investments, the demand will cool off thus driving the prices even lower then will skyrocket once again. I think one should wait a little bit to jump into the market- give it another 3-6 months and I think that will be the good time to buy bitcoins.

[icecream]

Is the university the UEL campus at nikosia by any chance

Yes, I think so.

[icecream]

So with China pulling bitcoins out of the market and therefore resulting in plummeting prices, it is a no-brainer that bitcoins have become highly volatile. So maybe this is not the good time to get into the market. However, I think, like most risky investments, the demand will cool off thus driving the prices even lower then will skyrocket once again. I think one should wait a little bit to jump into the market- give it another 3-6 months and I think that will be the good time to buy bitcoins.

I have been watching the prices over a few days. They went from 900 CND to a low of about 650 CDN. Now they are hovering around 800

[Sutekh]

Yes, I think so.

Doesn't surprise me, they sunk 15 million into it and about a dozen have enrolled. In fact it may already be shut down

[DigitalChaos]

Aaaaaaaand it looks like bitcoin might be done for with that ban in China. Baidu stopped accepting them and now the prices are plummeting.
http://preev.com/ Track the prices in real time

People have been calling "the death" of bitcoin or "a crash" of bitcoin so many times over the last several years. Not ONCE has the year over year price been downward trending. You'll have rapid rises, usually centered around some media attention, then a big drop... but prices have constantly been going up. 1 year ago BTC was $13USD. Then there was the March/April rally followed by the "bubble popping" and things stuck north of $100USD for months.

Speculation is good because it creates liquidity. It'll take time until volatility is reduced. People who are running a business on BTC tend to use another currency to handle the volatility while using BTC as the exchange mechanism.

[DigitalChaos]

Oh, and as for the how to buy bitcoin: As of right now: Coinbase is easier than the other exchanges I've looked at. It's kind of a proxy to other exchanges. Localbitcoins is also pretty easy if you don't want to provide much personal info but... in person trading...

[DigitalChaos]

China bans businesses from using Bitcoins for transactions http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...nsactions.html Bitcoin drops 13%
I don't know how China will pull this off, also one of the largest Bitcoin mining operations is in Hong Kong

This is based off of people only reading a summary. China didn't ban bitcoin. They said no financial institutions, payment agencies or insurers should price products and services in bitcoin, nor are they allowed to trade or provide bitcoin exchange or settlement services. People are free to exchange bitcoin for whatever they want. They just want the people to take on the risk themselves, not put the risk onto China's banking system. That's an incredibly smart move from a free market perspective. You get insanely irresponsible decisions when someone else takes on your risk (see US banking bailout).

[icecream]

People have been calling "the death" of bitcoin or "a crash" of bitcoin so many times over the last several years. Not ONCE has the year over year price been downward trending. You'll have rapid rises, usually centered around some media attention, then a big drop... but prices have constantly been going up. 1 year ago BTC was $13USD. Then there was the March/April rally followed by the "bubble popping" and things stuck north of $100USD for months.

Speculation is good because it creates liquidity. It'll take time until volatility is reduced. People who are running a business on BTC tend to use another currency to handle the volatility while using BTC as the exchange mechanism.

Very true. Still on the fence about them though. This summer I'll have more income to play around with, can't really afford to do it now. I'll track the price for now. Thanks for the info on coinbase BTW!