How do you interpret The Fragile?

[captainbeyond]

I'm no expert but I feel like a recording console can't just "pick up" some radio frequency? Surely it must have been intentionally added in, or it was the end of a sample from a movie..

I install commercial sound systems for a living. You would be surprised about all the weird things that happen in audio. Even with a brand new state-of-the-art recording console, you are to still susceptible to some weird interference, especially depending on your location. When playing or recording guitar, especially with some high-output pickups and a fuzz/distortion pedal with the gain blasted, you will definitely increase your chances to pick up some weird shit.

[seasonsinthesky]

indeed, console wiring is labyrinthine, and sometimes so is the power cabling. weird frequency pickups and crosstalk can happen. not to mention the interference could have been picked up through the guitar pickups (an extremely common phenomenon experienced by a large amount of guitar players) and amplified through the distortion — i once recorded a bassist, through a DI box, in the same room as the vocalist singing a scratch track, and the vocals were clear as day once i crushed the hell out of the bass track with a compressor.

you can hear "The Wretched" interference recording clearly and fully in its remix on TFA, as part of the loop that opens the track (just before the descending guitar slide) and repeats throughout the first section.

[screwdriver]

I had a Danelectro Fabtone distortion pedal that in the right weather, very clearly picked up AM radio.
@Kris is right about the story behind the sound. That's what Keith Hillebrandt told me, and I don't really see any reason why he'd make that up.

are you sure it wasn't... ARG?

[Sesquipedalism]

One somewhat stupid yet quickly-shared idea I had in the past re: "Left" and "Right" was to view the names as puns based on their synonymous meanings. In other words, perhaps "left" is the past tense form of leaving, and "right" is the present-tense verb, to "correct" the past mistake of the "left". If the discs are viewed as separate related acts (which they are, IMHO) then the past sets up the present. It's not a very eloquent theory, I admit, so quickly abandoned the idea, but as long as we're discussing things I'll just leave it here.

Okay, I don't think I agree with that, but that's the sort of thinking I love. I can't tell you how much more interesting books, movies, and albums become when you find completely new and sometimes very unlikely lenses through which to examine them. Cool.

this is part of the theme: The Fragile is a collection of the fragments, ordered in different ways, mostly following some kind of dream logic, or just no logic at all. it doesn't matter which order you listen in; it doesn't even matter if you listen to any songs in order

I wonder if we're in the majority or minority, when it comes to the (admittedly huge minority of people who've spent this much time thinking about one LP from fifteen years ago) idea that The Fragile is more of a collage than a timeline.

since it furthers the theme by having fragments of other songs at the beginnings and endings of each track.

This actually drives me fucking nuts. I would murder for a copy of The Fragile with no crossfading; with everything neatly spliced. The crossfades, to me, actually speak a little more to an implied order, but only in those places where they occur. For example, "Starfuckers" doesn't have to necessarily follow "Please," but "I'm Looking Forward to Joining You, Finally" absolutely follows "Complication"—unless you have the vinyl, of course, where it follows "The New Flesh". Which raises the question of things like "Even Deeper" and "Pilgrimag," which don't crossfade at all on the vinyl, because they end and begin a side, respectively.

And speaking of "Pilgrimage," anyone else find it really surprising that the song is/was considered important enough by Trent to end the album in both single-disc versions? I love the track, but not only do I not see it as that integral to the album, I find it to be one of the more almost out of place songs in the collection. It fits, yes, but it's always felt more awkward to me than, say, "Please" (which clearly belongs with its other song buddies).

Funny story:
When i bought "The Fragile" for the first time a long time ago i used to own a multi disc stereo (you could store up to 5 discs at the time, pretty groundbreaking stuff, lol)

Anyhoo when i was about to listen to the album: i stored the two discs in my stereo, but i took them out so quickly i didn't noticed that i placed the "RIGHT" disc in tray 1 and "LEFT" in tray 2.
When i started to read the lyrics i knew i wasn't listening to "Somewhat Damaged", yet i heard the whole album this way! (First RIGHT then LEFT...)

Well, that's an obvious indication which side is intended to come first: "Somewhat Damaged" definitely comes first in the liner notes. Fuck me. I haven't had a physical copy of the album in over a decade (still waiting on that always imminent reissue of the vinyl...), and so that never even crossed my mind. Well. Pretending I don't feel like a total moron right now, let's just say I'm glad the conversation got started.

Heh.

[soft whistling]

I have often wondered if there was a chance that perhaps the Left and the Right could've also been a reference to the traits of left and right sides of the brain, and how they can go wrong, and get turned against him. I've always seen the Left as the first part of The Fragile too. I guess you say that listening to Left side first has also helped do that to me.

Another thing I've never really considered, but which it seems like a lot of ETSers have. Everyone (including Trent in some interview? am I remembering that correctly?) has always said that the Right side is more experimental and abstract, while the Left is more of a traditional album creature. That would certainly fit with the Left/Right brain interpretation. I'm going to have to listen to it with this in mind to see what I think.

@Sesquipedalism - And yes, this is definitely an awesome topic indeed. I certainly give you mad props for it via thumbs up.

Thanks! Glad so many people felt like nerding out with me. I'm only sorry that I started it before two days away from my computer (a day out of town and a solid day at work).

[seasonsinthesky]

I wonder if we're in the majority or minority, when it comes to the (admittedly huge minority of people who've spent this much time thinking about one LP from fifteen years ago) idea that The Fragile is more of a collage than a timeline.

it doesn't make sense if read in a linear fashion without relying on majorly shaky interpretations — as in, the kinds unsupported by the source text. the thing just isn't arranged logically and can't be followed as such if one is attempting to make any kind of sense from it. how could it be? the songs were placed according to an external brain disconnected from the meanings of the words and statements.

[Songs having bits of other songs at the start and end] actually drives me fucking nuts. I would murder for a copy of The Fragile with no crossfading; with everything neatly spliced. The crossfades, to me, actually speak a little more to an implied order, but only in those places where they occur. For example, "Starfuckers" doesn't have to necessarily follow "Please," but "I'm Looking Forward to Joining You, Finally" absolutely follows "Complication"—unless you have the vinyl, of course, where it follows "The New Flesh". Which raises the question of things like "Even Deeper" and "Pilgrimage," which don't crossfade at all on the vinyl, because they end and begin a side, respectively.

TNF and ILFTJYF are across sides as well, so they're separated like ED and "Pilgrimage." and i agree; kinda wish they'd put out multitracks or at least instrumentals like with TDS so we can have a peek anyway. i've taken the time to 'crop out' all the songs and while some are easily done ("The Fragile" easily splits away from WITT, as does the end of "The Wretched"), some have to be edited enough that you start to wonder if it's really equal to hearing the song pre-sequencing.

And speaking of "Pilgrimage," anyone else find it really surprising that the song is/was considered important enough by Trent to end the album in both single-disc versions? I love the track, but not only do I not see it as that integral to the album, I find it to be one of the more almost out of place songs in the collection. It fits, yes, but it's always felt more awkward to me than, say, "Please" (which clearly belongs with its other song buddies).

i was surprised too when i first saw it. evidently the track has an important perspective on the work as a whole; to be honest, it took me about a decade to even like the piece, so i've been thinking for a long time that TR must have had serious intentions behind including it but not including "10 Miles High," which is easily one of my top 10 favourite NIN songs. it's clearly more important as a statement... but what that statement says, i'm unsure. it's interesting, however, the way that it begins with distorted guitar and this grand machinery building and collapsing, then falls into this completely out-of-place and bizarre marching band (makes me think of the Sigur Rós song "Sé Lest" live, wherein the marching band at the end of that song walks right across the stage as they perform the music). the familiar NIN sound falls into total, dark absurdity — sounds like all of The Fragile to me, in a way that lingers.

Everyone (including Trent in some interview? am I remembering that correctly?) has always said that the Right side is more experimental and abstract, while the Left is more of a traditional album creature. That would certainly fit with the Left/Right brain interpretation.

never really thought about that, but you're right, the Left disc is structured quite a lot like a traditional album (though TDTWWA obviously fucks with the way the dynamic is 'supposed' to work, where the second song is usually an energetic single, and that song is... well, it's an un-song, really — funny that the Right disc actually performs this same sequencing function 'properly' but is considered the weird disc!) while the Right disc has a stranger feeling. however, i find the 'otherness' of that side is sourced in the way it relates to the Left; there is a sort of mirroring in the way they begin, with SD and TWOIT having a similar build-and-release linearity, but then the discs veer off in vastly differing directions. if TR had released the discs separately like Radiohead did, how would the Right disc have been judged differently? with distance between the releases, would the tracklisting of Right have changed, or included 10MH and TNF? what would it have been titled if Left would presumably have kept The Fragile title?

[Sesquipedalism]

Something I never really noticed before until this thread got me in a ponderin' mood.

What purpose does the definite article of "The" serve by being in front of "Fragile" in the record's title as opposed to its absence in regards to "Broken"? With "Broken" it's easy of course to ascertain that the title is self-descriptive and singular. Here we have the broken down and enraged words of one man, thrashing out against the world (and Steve Gottlieb).

However, perhaps the "The" of "The Fragile" expounds upon the concept that the album is not just about this singular entity, yet that it is indicative of multiple entities. This is most apparent in songs such as "WiTT" and the title track. It is perhaps a means to voice the words of an entire group of people...the so declared "fragile" of our society. Or perhaps as @Kris mentioned above, the plurality could be a reference to the left and right side of our protagonist's brain. Or even dissociative identity disorder.

I'm a language geek. And there aren't enough "Like" buttons on the page for how much I love this post. Somewhere on ETS (if it got transferred when the site was rebuilt), there's like two pages of me debating whether the "stains" in "March of the Pigs" ("stains like blood on your teeth") is supposed to be a verb or a noun. There was a larger point at stake, I think (I hope), but still. I assume this makes it clear what a big deal I might consider the addition of the definite article.

This also strikes me particularly because, before the album came out, some local DJ was talking about it on the radio and said it was called Frail (and that it was going to be a triple disc album with one disc of exclusively instrumental songs and two of vocal tracks; perhaps that should have tipped me off that he was not to be trusted) and, because of that, when the album came out as The Fragile, the title felt clunky and awkward to me. This certainly didn't hurt my experience of the album, since "clunky" and "awkward" are two adjectives I think TR was shooting for. But I've nevertheless always been very aware of the article.

There was quite an interesting interpretation posted on the Hotline ages ago.

Whoa. That looks like a solid late-night read for me. Thanks!

I don't think The Fragile can be interpreted as having an INTENDED linear order. After all, Reznor didn't even pick the final order for the CD, Bob Ezrin did (provider of "final continuity and flow" is how he's credited in the liner notes). This order was then spread out over six sequential sides in the vinyl edition, with the additional two songs placed in act three.

I mentioned this somewhere back there as evidence of just what you're saying here. No matter how well-informed Ezrin was, there's no way he could understand every song exactly as Trent meant them and then place them in a correct sequential order in service of a directly linear storyline (especially since a third of them are instrumental, with no linguistic cues to tell anyone what part of the "story" they're "telling"); not unless Trent was looking over his shoulder and saying "No, you're wrong, that one goes there," which would prompt me to ask "If you knew that, then why the hell did you call someone else in to do it for you in the first place?"

Do you remember a few years ago, when someone made some claim about Trent definitely being a drug-addled wreck with a swiss-cheesed brain while working on The Fragile, and then out of nowhere, Bob Ezrin himself showed up to personally state that, no, Trent was not a worthless junkie at that point in time, but seemed well-put together? I think I remember someone saying he showed up "out of nowhere" because you can, uh, "set the internet" to alert you whenever someone uses your name. (I have no idea how that works, if you can't already tell.) Since this is actually a discussion about precisely what he was hired to help with, maybe if we all turn off the lights, power down our monitors, and say his name three times while looking at our reflections, he'll appear like Bloody Mary or Candyman, and tell us we're all morons, and the story plainly begins with "The Mark Has Been Made" and proceeds after that in reverse abecedarian order. Duh.

[Sesquipedalism]

Even after 14 years it's still an enigma.

The nature of the album is fragmented, and could also be seen as an incomplete puzzle. While 'The Wall' defines the traditional concept album in a linear narrative, The Fragile disintegrates its narrative and delivers plastic bags of ruined evidence with notes of incoherent scribblings, for you to make sense of.

And he even left a gift note:

"Tried so hard to make the pieces all fit
Smashed it apart
Just for the fuck of it" Enjoy! – T.R

Well put.

"And All That Could Have Been" deserved a place on the album since it's one of the best NIN tracks ever... imo

Wish I had a vinyl rip of "The Fragile" so I could hear "10 Miles High" and "New Flesh" in their places. Such a cocktease when "10 Miles High" is cut.
Is the vinyl version different from the "Things Falling Apart" mix?

After "Somewhat Damaged," "And All That Could Have Been" is, actually, my favorite Nine Inch Nails song ever. But I've never figured out where I should insert it on one of those überFragile playlists I think we all make, now and again. It's pretty much a show-stopper, but "The Great Below" and "Underneath It All" certainly don't really feel right unless they end their sets. Conundrums.

It was definitely written for the album, right? Years ago, I mentioned my assumption that "Deep" was also a B-side (the titular connection with "Even Deeper" made this seem like a no brainer to me), but was promptly corrected with a link to an article where Trent said specifically that he'd written the song exclusively for the soundtrack of [shudder]Tomb Raider. Has Trent ever commented on "And All That Could Have Been"? Googling just brings up comments about the live album.

I love "Somewhat Damaged"...
but I always felt "The Way Out Is Through" should have been the album opener

I've always thought that the original plan, with "La Mer" as the opener, would have been a spectacular move. Sort of slapping listeners in the face with a very blatant declaration of how much The Fragile was not going to be The Downward Spiral 2: Even Downwarder.

I remember hearing something about there being A LOT of tracks written and recorded during this era (some absurd amount that I can't recall)
Perhaps the extras are closer to "Still"-style material, more piano-based and atmospheric

Didn't this rumor get quashed? I thought all the extra stuff went to Saul Williams' Niggy Tardust. And I'm sure that the instrumental Still material was mostly the product of Trent's first attempt at a film score.

they should definitely stick with the vinyl version for the CD as well Are the extras gonna be tacked on at the end or perhaps incorporated into the album to give the full length experience of what "The Fragile" was suppose to be

I assume that there will at the very least be a full-scale digital release, where everything is in its proper place, which we can view as a "master copy." That wasn't an option in 1999. If it had been, I wonder what would have happened with the release. If extras are tacked onto the end, if we got a version that was a remaster, with "10 Miles High" and "The New Flesh" just glued on after "Ripe," I think I might cry. I'm still bitter about having to rush to the record player to lift the needle after "Ringfinger," before "Get Down, Make Love" (which is a killer cover and a wonderful song) ruins the mood of Pretty Hate Machine.

The main difference lies in "RIGHT" that ends with an instrumental piece, that in a way it's "quiet", but it's also inconclusive and almost disturbing... like "something" isn't resolved; so yes in a way: "Ripe (with Decay)" can lead to: "Somewhat damaged".

Bottom line: In my opinion the album is a "cycle", no disc comes "before" and "after"; you can trade the listening order from "Left" and "Right" or "Right" and "Left" and it'll still make sense ...yet the "ending" of the first combo is very "suspenseful" and the ending of the other combo is a bit more "conclusive".

After listening the album it reminded me to (Pink Floyd's) "The Wall" because the "end" of the album is exactly the "beginning" (At the end of the album Roger Waters says: "Is this were... *then the album ends and if you play it from the beginning again he says: "...we came in?")
So i guess it's no coincidence that Bob Ezrin was the one that selected the album order for The fragile...

I'd forgotten about that little Wall message. And I really like your interpretation here. "The Great Below" does tie everything up more neatly than "Underneath"/"Ripe," if you're looking for narrative closure. And you're now the second person to mention how well "Ripe" flows into "Somewhat Damaged," which I'd never considered, but turns out to be true. Awesome.

[Sesquipedalism]

Okay. Phew. Done.

Never ever start an interesting online conversation and then walk away for fifty hours.

[Lastentrance]

So...you could start with Right.

Or...





http://www.ninwiki.com/The_Fragile_(halo)

\\

I have nothing really personal to add at this time, but I always dig talk of The Fragile.

The thought of La Mer as track 2 is craziness!

[Sesquipedalism]

it doesn't make sense if read in a linear fashion without relying on majorly shaky interpretations — as in, the kinds unsupported by the source text. the thing just isn't arranged logically and can't be followed as such if one is attempting to make any kind of sense from it. how could it be? the songs were placed according to an external brain disconnected from the meanings of the words and statements.

I agree, but I have, on occasion in the world of literature, seen people cobble together explanations that, after they pile the horseshit high enough, start to seem supported by the source text and are actually kind of cool.

TNF and ILFTJYF are across sides as well

I love ETS' acronyms. That seven-letter sequence should not make any sense, but I didn't even hesitate when I looked at it.

i've taken the time to 'crop out' all the songs and while some are easily done ("The Fragile" easily splits away from WITT, as does the end of "The Wretched"), some have to be edited enough that you start to wonder if it's really equal to hearing the song pre-sequencing.

You did? I'd love to hear that. "Pilgrimage" coming out of "Even Deeper" drives me crazy. But, as "Somewhat Damaged" is my favorite song, "The Day the World Went Away" growing out of it feels like the audio equivalent of a wart. Which, considering how much I like "The Day the World Went Away," is saying something for my irrational love of "Damaged" and my possibly rational loathing of crossfades.

"10 Miles High," which is easily one of my top 10 favourite NIN songs.

I've never gotten the appeal of this one, to be honest. I like that it's not a normally sequenced song. I like the ambiance. But I think, if I divide the catalogue in half, this one falls in the lower bracket. "The New Flesh," on the other hand, well, it boggles my fucking mind how that didn't make it on the supposedly definitive CD tracklisting. I can't imagine what could have been more important to the work as a whole, or what could have been a cooler sonic experiment/innovation. Once again, I'm looking angrily at you, "Starfuckers."

it's clearly more important as a statement... but what that statement says, i'm unsure. it's interesting, however, the way that it begins with distorted guitar and this grand machinery building and collapsing, then falls into this completely out-of-place and bizarre marching band (makes me think of the Sigur Rós song "Sé Lest" live, wherein the marching band at the end of that song walks right across the stage as they perform the music). the familiar NIN sound falls into total, dark absurdity — sounds like all of The Fragile to me, in a way that lingers.

That's not inappropriate, if I recall correctly. I'll have to see if I can find the interview or whatever where Trent actually comments on the song. It sounds something like what you just said. The phrase "conquering army" or "invading army" is used. Which made me feel more solid about my interpretation of the track (The Phantom Menace had just come out, so the song felt very much like some sort of perverse, Emperor Palpatine celebratory parade), and less sure about how it related to the album as a whole.

[EndlessLoveless]

'Pilgramage' is awesome. Such a powerful peice of music. I think its pretty cool to imagine the album ending with that marching band and that final drum beat. It would be WAY different than 'ripe', and put a whole new perspective on the 'story' of the album.

The fragile is not only my favorite nin album, its my favorit album of all time. As far as the re-issue, i would love the 'lost' fragile tracks, even if they are not completely finished, or have been on the saul album in some form or another. But most of all, i want a quality version of 'appendage'.

Ive got a whole idea on the meaning and story of the fragile thats kind of different than what everyone else has been saying, and will get into it soon. Its gonna be kinda long......

[Hazekiah]

I haven't seen it mentioned here so I thought I'd add a little something about how I've always viewed THE Fragile and why exactly it's split into Left and Right sides.

He doesn't sing the "the" in the song "The Fragile" because he's just describing the one person in the song.

But the statement the song makes applies to a wider group, collectively known as THE fragile. The fragile people just like her. The album's audience, really. Damaged people. Just like "the frail," "the wretched," and "the frayed and forgotten" he also sings about.

Between Reznor's near suicide at Big Sur when beginning to write the album, his experiments with antidepressants at the time, the crushing loss of his grandmother, and his issues with certain drugs and routes of administration back then, it's pretty clear that Reznor himself was in a pretty fragile state. But he survived.

And how is he helping his audience deal with their own fragility and keeping them from falling apart?

By embracing and holding them together with the album itself.

Which is, of course, divided by left and right and even packaged in a CD case that "hugs" itself, the same way he does his audience, metaphorically speaking.

And, ultimately, just like the hug he so desperately needed from his dear, departed grandmother.

It's Left and Right because our arms are "left" and "right." It's symbolic of the hugs that warm and heal and, conversely, the drugs that numb and destroy.

That's primarily how I'VE always interpreted those facets of the album, at least.

:')

And, incidentally, I've always thought this outlook was strongly supported by and was really interestingly developed further by Year Zero, which has a pretty unique relationship with The Fragile, insofar as it expanded so intricately upon and recontexualized the symbolism of "The Wretched."

You know, all the stuff about god's arm coming down from the sky to fuck with mankind and The Presence appearing as an arm and hand from the sky erasing the dystopia futureworld that only lives on as zeroes and ones on the disc itself and the ARG websites thanks to the AiR revolution whose flag itself was a stylized depiction of The Presence.

Definitely some cool arm-related connections between The Fragile and Year Zero there.

And how was THAT album packaged?

[botley]

Nice feet bro

[Hazekiah]

Haha, I just googled for a pic of the open CD case and that was the best one I could find, lol.

Not my feet!

I'm assuming they belong to Lambelle Rowan or Rowan Lambelle, a.k.a. the Wonder Weasel...? The pic apparently comes from their exquisitely detailed breakdown of the YZ ARG, which I'm currently digging through after accidentally discovering it just now.

I did kinda enjoy the left and right feet being in the pic too, though.

:P

[Sesquipedalism]

I haven't seen it mentioned here so I thought I'd add a little something about how I've always viewed THE Fragile and why exactly it's split into Left and Right sides.

He doesn't sing the "the" in the song "The Fragile" because he's just describing one person in the song.

Great observation. I never attached any meaning to that before, but I will now.

But the statement the song makes applies to a wider group, collectively known as THE fragile. The fragile people just like her. The album's audience, really. Damaged people. Just like "the frail," "the wretched," and "the frayed and forgotten" he also sings about.

Between Reznor's near suicide at Big Sur when beginning to write the album, his experiments with antidepressants at the time, the crushing loss of his grandmother, and his issues with certain drugs and routes of administration back then, it's pretty clear that Reznor himself was in a pretty fragile state. But he survived.

And how is he helping his audience deal with their own fragility and keeping them from falling apart?

By embracing and holding them together with the album itself.

This is lovely. And sort of how I felt listening to the line in "Copy of a" "listening to someone's cry for help." That line can be read a number of ways but, because of my own personal relationship to Nine Inch Nails, at the moment, I choose to read it that way.

The Fragile scored a pretty dark chapter in my life—a couple of ODs, the loss of a romantic love, the process of losing a loved family member, the betrayal of the few close friends I had left, and one hilariously botched suicide attempt. But through the whole thing, I kept returning to that album, screaming along, or sometimes just lying face down and listening to "La Mer" on repeat. It's not stretch at all to say that in a not insignificant way, it held me together. It gave me a framework into which I could shove my personal experiences which made them somehow less personal (and therefore a little less painful), and less lonely (because someone else out there felt the same fragility).

And, incidentally, I've always thought this outlook was strongly supported by and was really interestingly expanded upon by Year Zero, which has a pretty unique relationship with The Fragile, insofar as it expanded so intricately upon and recontexualized the symbolism of "The Wretched."

You know, all the stuff about god's arm coming down from the sky to fuck with mankind and The Presence appearing as an arm and hand from the sky erasing the dystopia futureworld that only lives on as zeroes and ones on the disc itself and the ARG websites thanks to the AiR revolution whose flag itself was a stylized depiction of The Presence.

When the ARG was in full-swing was the only time I recall anyone else talking about this. And I was always sorry we never revisited it as a topic.

[eversonpoe]

Haha, I just googled for a pic of the open CD case and that was the best one I could find, lol.

Not my feet!

I'm assuming they belong to Lambelle Rowan or Rowan Lambelle, a.k.a. the Wonder Weasel...? The pic apparently comes from their exquisitely detailed breakdown of the YZ ARG, which I'm currently digging through after accidentally discovering it just now.

I did kinda enjoy the left and right feet being in the pic too, though.

:P

not to derail the thread, but i just wanna re-iterate how much i love the packaging and artwork for year zero (despite the fact that i don't like the album). i also like how it's kind of the inverse of the fragile (one disc with two outer panels as opposed to two discs with a center panel). and with that, i'm back on topic.

[seasonsinthesky]

the only hug intention i believe is the thing hugging itself, but even that's ridiculous. the whole thing, even the title track and WITT, is a meditation on every dark thing spoken of so far, but without a resulting epiphany or assembly of something that is okay. in fact, depending on how you read it, it just has the same dead conclusion as TDS (presumably) proposes in TGB and its reflection across the water in UIA.

this would be one of those 'piling stuff up until you somehow create a conclusion supported by the source material in an out-of-the-box way' that @Sesquipedalism mentioned. i don't mean to reduce the personal evidence the creates the 'pile' — you should be congratulated for surviving the bullshit of the world whether this album helped you or not! — just to reduce the shadows that leaves across the album cover when you look at it, y'know?

[Tiz]

Lyrically, I never gave the record much thought. Just sorta abstract feelings of isolation, malaise, or whatever.

[Halo Infinity]

@Hazekiah - Now you got me thinking WITH_HUGS or WITH_ARMS. But seriously, I loved that observation. I've never even considered that before. So could Broken also refer to curling up and dying on the inside? I knew there was something I liked about the way you got your opinions and thoughts across. I've also thought about The Fragile could be a reference to how life itself can be a fragile and an unpredictable mixed bag too with very steep ups and downs.

[binaryhermit]

That site seems a bit allofmp3-like if you know what I mean.

And if you don't, I mean that it seems to be of questionable legality.

[EndlessLoveless]

^Yeah, nothing special there anyways^, a bunch of 20 sec clips from the menus....and deep doesnt fit on there. Great song, but not to fit on the fragile.

[mostlymad]

I haven't properly listened to The Fragile as a whole. This thread inspired me to do so. As an album, it has a completely different story interpretation for me than it did seven years ago, when I last really, really sat down and listened to it a few times through. It felt shadowed and pained before, but now, it feels horribly dark. Almost moreso than The Downward Spiral. It's even more realistic than it seemed. I still think the flow from trying to work things through to a good place and having it fall apart - Left, then Right - works better as a story in my head. I thought this getting older thing was supposed to make things mellow out. I think it's getting darker, for me...

[seasonsinthesky]

^Yeah, nothing special there anyways^, a bunch of 20 sec clips from the menus....and deep doesnt fit on there. Great song, but not to fit on the fragile.

a lot of people say this about "Starfuckers." if that one fits, why doesn't "Deep?" besides being written afterward, obviously. i find the style is in keeping with TF, but also has this punch-in-the-teeth style that WT expands on (which is part of why i thought it was great when the band played this song on the WT tour).

[botley]

Yes, "Deep" in my mind clearly belongs with the post-Fragile sessions that were aborted for a few years while TR got clean and sober. While he was finishing And All That Could Have Been, and all the unreleased 12 Rounds & Tapeworm stuff etc. from 2001-2002, there must have been a few noodly attempts at NIN tracks done in the "minimal and a bit brutal" style before his With Teeth songwriting began in earnest (with the unnecessary "Bleedthrough" storyline initially used as a frame device to catalyze more lyric-writing).

[EndlessLoveless]

a lot of people say this about "Starfuckers." if that one fits, why doesn't "Deep?" besides being written afterward, obviously. i find the style is in keeping with TF, but also has this punch-in-the-teeth style that WT expands on (which is part of why i thought it was great when the band played this song on the WT tour).

Starfuckers fits because it was written with the rest of the songs, and has the same general sound. Deep doesnt fit because it was not written anywhere near the same time as the fragile, and doesnt sound anything like it. Seems obvious to me. I agree it sounds more, with teeth-ish.

Thats like saying the perfect drug should go on the downward spiral.

[Halo Infinity]

I kept forgetting to mention this, but perhaps it isn't so far fetched to think that In Two might have some connection to The Fragile as well as the two discs representing NIN being broken in two. It's because I also sometimes forget that The Downward Spiral was being worked on since 1991, just when Now I'm Nothing surfaced.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dow...ral#Production

So there is a huge chance that that it really was thought through that far back, and he used that idea again in The Fragile as a means to continue the story-line that could've been there since Broken. It also makes me wonder about the matches being used in Hesitation Marks with Broken having fiery album art.

And then you have...

Now I'm Nothing - I'm sifting through the ashes, of what I have become...

Gave Up - Wake up, wake up in flames!

Burn - I'm gonna burn this whole world down!

The Big Come Down - There is a hate that burns with in!

Sunspots - Fuck in the fire and we'll spread the ashes around.

Survivalism - You see your world in fire, don't try to act surprised!

And not that all of them would have some sort of connection/reference, but it could be a possibility for some of them. Oh, and I like how it's like I seem to learn something new about NIN every time I'm here, and if not something necessarily new, it certainly gives me a new way to look at NIN. I probably wouldn't have thought of any more of this if it wasn't for this thread.

Oh yes, and the blood on Hesitation Marks sometime makes me think of Please. "Watch the white! Turn to red! It fills the hole but it grows somewhere else instead!" I also like to imagine Find My Way having some reference/connection to Somewhat Damaged too. It's also hard to organize my thoughts on this... but I've figured that would be the case, since there is something undeniably complex about The Fragile.

[seasonsinthesky]

Starfuckers fits because it was written with the rest of the songs, and has the same general sound. Deep doesnt fit because it was not written anywhere near the same time as the fragile, and doesnt sound anything like it. Seems obvious to me. I agree it sounds more, with teeth-ish.

Thats like saying the perfect drug should go on the downward spiral.

are you arguing the same for pieces of Still like "Gone, Still" or "Leaving Hope?" they sound exactly like TF to me, despite being written for One Hour Photo. (we know AATCHB is an outtake.)

fitting you bring up TPD: both it and "Deep" seem to work the same way, being two tracks written between albums that combine the general characteristics of each; one could argue the first part of TPD is more reminiscent of TDS, while the coda is very TF-like, and "Deep" seems to have the layering and lyrical bend of TF combined with the straighter, bombastic, huge-wah-guitar approach use all over WT.

[screwdriver]

Starfuckers fits because it was written with the rest of the songs, and has the same general sound. Deep doesnt fit because it was not written anywhere near the same time as the fragile, and doesnt sound anything like it. Seems obvious to me. I agree it sounds more, with teeth-ish.

Thats like saying the perfect drug should go on the downward spiral.

I've always felt like Deep feels very "Fragile-ish." I remember when it first came out, my friends and I -- all obsessed with the Fragile -- were sort of surprised at *how* Fragile-esque it sounded; to me, I think it's the guitar sounds and guitar solo, which sort of mirrored the techniques and sounds on The Fragile.

I guess I can see the minimal aesthetic being similar to With Teeth, but sonically it sounds way more from The Fragile camp to me.

[EndlessLoveless]

are you arguing the same for pieces of Still like "Gone, Still" or "Leaving Hope?" they sound exactly like TF to me, despite being written for One Hour Photo. (we know AATCHB is an outtake.)

fitting you bring up TPD: both it and "Deep" seem to work the same way, being two tracks written between albums that combine the general characteristics of each; one could argue the first part of TPD is more reminiscent of TDS, while the coda is very TF-like, and "Deep" seems to have the layering and lyrical bend of TF combined with the straighter, bombastic, huge-wah-guitar approach use all over WT.

The entirety of the album 'still' sounds fragile era to me. Even the reworking of something i can never have. Deep though, other than that synth lead sounding kinda like where is everybody?, really has no connection to the fragile for me. Also, without us seeing the multitracks, the fragile is layered as fuck, like A LOT of tracks on each song. Deep does not sound like it has near as many tracks going on, so i guess i dont think it has that 'layered' sound that the fragile is known for. And i just find it kind of crazy for people to put this on thier 'extended' fragile album. Its a stretch. A big stretch. I also dont think the perfect drug sounds like the downward spiral, and would not put it on a downward spiral playlist....dead souls, and burn sure, but not TPD.

I can agree that the the two songs in between albums (TPD, DEEP) may have elements from any of the albums that they are in between, possibly foreshadowing things to come or echoing things that have already been, but not enough to put on said albums. If i remember correctly, my 'into the void' single has TPD on it, and it def sticks out as not "fragile-esque".

And has that been proven, that those still songs were for 'one hour photo'? 100% proven? Just curious.

[Fred]

It's also kinda problematic that Deep was specifically written for, and released on, the soundtrack of a film. Its entire creation took place in a different context than the rest of the stuff off The Fragile. Lyric-wise and soundwise, it's not supposed to fit in there. The Still instrumentals, at least, may have been written for One Hour Photo, but they weren't released for it. The final versions may not even have been recorded for it.

So it's a lot easier to vouch for those tracks being part of the whole Fragile-experience. Also, didn't Trent once state that Adrift And At Peace was the conclusion of La Mer and The Great Below?

EDIT: Looked it up. AAAP is the conclusion of La Mer. So that piece may not even have been written for One Hour Photo to begin with.