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Thread: Prepare for Assault World War Three?

  1. #61
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    If anybody is still buying the line that the US admin is wanting to act out of humanitarian concern, please reconsider. They didn't give a damn about Gazans being subjected to white phosphorus, and they had no qualms regarding the use of depleted uranium or drone strikes.

    They are using the chemical attacks to manipulate the public - they know people felt burned by Iraq, and have devised an alternate method of drumming up support.

    But ultimately, Russia has its only naval base (outside of Russia) in northern syria, and US/NATO simply wants to knock this piece off the chessboard. (notice all the anti-Russian stories in the news recently? not a coincidence, and it's not like Russia became oppressive and Putin became an asshole recently)

    If they gave a shit about humanitarian concerns, they would have acted on Gaza, right now all hell is breaking loose in the DRC and they do basically nothing. Kenyan MPs are voting to withdraw from the ICC (really only one reason you would do that), they prop up the Saudi and Bahrain regimes with money and weapons, facilitating their human rights abuses. There a myriad worse human rights catastrophes underway and in waiting that they mysteriously don't seem to prioritise. Ask yourself why

    This is about knocking out one of Russia's assets and expanding the reach of the US-led economic system. This is why they bombed Yugoslavia, and this power struggle between the US and Russia is also why there was that war in Georgia a few years ago (Georgia wanted to build closer ties with the US).

    There are various NGOs through which we can help the Syrian people - even if the Western Leaders eventually promise they only want to deliver gas masks and medical supplies, they WILL abuse the opportunity and quickly look for any reason to escalate.

    This is not to mention blowback, which is more real for us than it is for the politicians who are chaffeur driven and have security details trailing them.

    I don't like what's happening in Syria but the Western leaders cannot be trusted and are NOT interested in a solution to the problems in Syria
    Last edited by Sutekh; 09-06-2013 at 10:09 AM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarenLeslie View Post
    I'm aware that this is probably a really dumb question, BUT...the problem is that chemical weapons are against the Geneva Convention, right? And it's the UN's job to enforce Geneva, right?

    So, like...why is the US considering taking independent action? It's the UN's responsibility. Granted, the US is PART of the UN, but any action against Syria taken on the basis of violating the convention should be done by a UN-sanctioned body, even if that body includes US military...right?

    Fuck, why did I engage? Why did I even try thinking?

    The UN isn't doing anything, because the USSR and China are big players and both have insurgents in their own house.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I don't like what's happening in Syria but the Western leaders cannot be trusted and are NOT interested in a solution to the problems in Syria
    I have to agree. I don't think we (in the US) have had a legitimate war since WWII.
    And everyone seems to think we entered THAT shit to end the Holocaust, which wasn't the case.

    It seems to me that everything since WWII has been posturing to gain more "pieces," as you put it, on a global chessboard.

    One thing i wonder about...is THAT why we always support Israel? So that we have a nice friendly country in the middle east?

    To me it would make more sense to support Every Other Country in the middle east.

  4. #64
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    Israel has nukes and is just across the way from Russia. In the immediate area all Russia has is that naval base in Syria. Scissors beat paper. A nuclear-armed proxy in the middle east is an excellent tactical asset

    America entered WW2 because it saw an ascendant Soviet Union and a declining British Empire, and decided to step in and make itself the other world power. One of the conditions for entering the war was the breakup of the Empire. This is why they waited so long to get involved (let the European powers exhaust themselves to the point where they come to the table)

    Make no mistake, Western Europe (incl UK) is largely a collection of US vassal states - there are American military bases and listening stations absolutely everywhere, and our economies are ultimately subservient to the US in this top-down system.

    The smart thing the US did was invade Europe whilst pretending not to invade Europe - they didn't hang US flags from every street corner, and they allow us our petty nationalist indulgences, but ultimately we are their satellites the same as Eastern Europe was made up of Soviet satellite states.

    The official narrative is the US stepped in to defend liberty and defeat fascism. I really don't think it's Alex Jones territory to raise an eyebrow at that suggestion, if you look how the balance of power shifted during and after the war, and how the US wasn't really bothered about the rise of Fascism in 30s Europe or the conquests of Japan in the Pacific/se asia region, the real, slightly more cynical & realist motivations become clear

  5. #65
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    Any use of military might to effect a political outcome is essentially war. It doesn't require front lines or "boots on the ground" to constitute it.

  6. #66
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    Rammstein's Amerika video becomes again relevant now with Obama rattling the sabres of war. It's interesting how certain pieces of art gain relevance once again based on our current context: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxroiTRg7Tg

  7. #67
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    Interesting - but also very sad that these things retain relevance!

  8. #68
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    So it appears that Syria is welcoming Russia's proposition to hand over their chemical weapons under international control.
    If they are in good faith, I don't see why the US would reject this offer. Everybody wins except Raytheon.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    So it appears that Syria is welcoming Russia's proposition to hand over their chemical weapons under international control.
    If they are in good faith, I don't see why the US would reject this offer. Everybody wins except Raytheon.
    Amen to that!

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Israel has nukes and is just across the way from Russia. In the immediate area all Russia has is that naval base in Syria. Scissors beat paper. A nuclear-armed proxy in the middle east is an excellent tactical asset

    America entered WW2 because it saw an ascendant Soviet Union and a declining British Empire, and decided to step in and make itself the other world power. One of the conditions for entering the war was the breakup of the Empire. This is why they waited so long to get involved (let the European powers exhaust themselves to the point where they come to the table)

    Make no mistake, Western Europe (incl UK) is largely a collection of US vassal states - there are American military bases and listening stations absolutely everywhere, and our economies are ultimately subservient to the US in this top-down system.

    The smart thing the US did was invade Europe whilst pretending not to invade Europe - they didn't hang US flags from every street corner, and they allow us our petty nationalist indulgences, but ultimately we are their satellites the same as Eastern Europe was made up of Soviet satellite states.

    The official narrative is the US stepped in to defend liberty and defeat fascism. I really don't think it's Alex Jones territory to raise an eyebrow at that suggestion, if you look how the balance of power shifted during and after the war, and how the US wasn't really bothered about the rise of Fascism in 30s Europe or the conquests of Japan in the Pacific/se asia region, the real, slightly more cynical & realist motivations become clear
    Don't you think you're taking this a bit too far? Sure, we all know that the official story isn't as cut and dry as we're led to believe, but you're practically making the US involvement in WWII out to be nothing more than a selfish power grab. It's not that far of a stretch to conclude that the US felt legitimately threatened, and while we're listing off the reasons for us becoming officially involved, it's a bit of a coy maneuver to not even mention Pearl Harbor. The exclusion of that point as being a motivating factor (along with the country's war weary isolationist attitude) almost does sound like we're heading a bit into "Alex Jones territory."

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Don't you think you're taking this a bit too far? Sure, we all know that the official story isn't as cut and dry as we're led to believe, but you're practically making the US involvement in WWII out to be nothing more than a selfish power grab. It's not that far of a stretch to conclude that the US felt legitimately threatened, and while we're listing off the reasons for us becoming officially involved, it's a bit of a coy maneuver to not even mention Pearl Harbor. The exclusion of that point as being a motivating factor (along with the country's war weary isolationist attitude) almost does sound like we're heading a bit into "Alex Jones territory."
    I see what you mean but the difference is you are totalising WW2 in a way I wasn't*, the pacific and European theatres are very seperate and I was discussing US motivations for entering the European theatre, within that context pearl harbour is not relevant. Pearl harbour was attacked by Japan, which necessitated getting the Nazis out of Europe? Two different conflicts

    Pearl Harbour was the justification for entering the Pacific war, US entry into the European theatre was to nudge out the Empire and hold off the Soviets - this is not my interpretation, these are the reasons openly and plainly given by the US administration at the time (one of the very conditions for US boots on the ground in France was Churchill's dismantling of the Empire). The Nazi threat to the US is arguable - and certainly wasn't grave by the time they entered the Euro theatre (UK and USSR had the Fascists on the run by that point). I didn't mention Pearl Harbour because I'm discussing the US role in wartime & postwar Europe, it wasn't a coy or purposeful omission - I would never trivialise any aspect of world war 2 on purpose

    But on the subject of the Pacific - they were content to sit by and let abominable things happen in nanjing and manchuria, and only entered once a US base was attacked, so again, obviously humanitarian concerns weren't the order of the day (which is fair enough given the great war and the depression were so recent, as you say).

    *edit - I have been misleadingly using the terms WW2 and European Theatre interchangeably due to my Euro-centricity, apologies for that
    Last edited by Sutekh; 09-10-2013 at 12:56 PM.

  12. #72
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    Putin wrote an OpEd for NY Times. Its pretty awesome. I agree with every bit of it. Who would have imagined this message coming out of Russia a few years ago?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/op...yria.html?_r=0

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Putin wrote an OpEd for NY Times. Its pretty awesome. I agree with every bit of it. Who would have imagined this message coming out of Russia a few years ago?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/op...yria.html?_r=0
    see the new thread created.

  14. #74
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    So world war 3 coming soon? how about this bullshit with russia?

  15. #75
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    I'm honestly surprised we've gone on as long as we have without a "world war"...

  16. #76
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    i;m honestly fucking scared now. i don't want it.
    i can't even believe we (as a "civilized" animal) fight wars still.

  17. #77
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    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26953113

    sorry for double post. THe above link is what's going on now if you guys don't know.
    So if Ukraine and Russia go to war, will other countries stand by or will we attack?

    And then what if China supports Russia, and possibly Iran?

    It might be US/England/France/Germany etc vs China/Russia/Iran/Syria etc.

    Holy Catshit, Batman, that's a fearsome proposition.

  18. #78
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    "World War Three?!"



  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    And then what if China supports Russia, and possibly Iran?

    It might be US/England/France/Germany etc vs China/Russia/Iran/Syria etc.

    Holy Catshit, Batman, that's a fearsome proposition.

    While we Australians drink beer and lol at everyone.

  20. #80
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    @Ryan , my girl and i want out of this country REALLY bad.

  21. #81
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    Move here and suckle at my teet.

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    And then what if China supports Russia, and possibly Iran?
    I took a class on China in grad school.

    China won't support Russia. China won't support anybody except China.

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    Meanwhile, those "ethnic Russians" in Crimea appear to WANT to be Russians. Go figure. News at 11.

  24. #84
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    @Ryan , you got a spare room?
    I've got a friend in Dublin who has invited us to stay there, but we don't have money for tickets, and Canada doesn't want us due to our criminal records.

  25. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    While we Australians drink beer and lol at everyone.
    You guys are lucky, Anthony Perkins and Fred Astaire'll be on hand for the nuclear apocalypse.

  26. #86
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    Ukraine troops are allegedly moving towards Donetsk.
    The army allegedly took control of an airport in Kramatorsk that had been seized by pro-Russians forces.

    I doubt we're witnessing the beginning of WW3. Ukraine not being a NATO country makes all the difference.
    I don't think Putin is crazy enough to go into Estonia, despite earlier report that he might have interest in the town of Narva.

    Putin can send his SU-24 fighters doing stupid maneuvers in the Baltic Sea, US is certainly not gonna attack unarmed jets.
    I think this is just for show.

  27. #87
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    Jews are being ordered to register in Eastern Ukraine.

    http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/...aratist-group/

  28. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepvoid View Post
    Jews are being ordered to register in Eastern Ukraine.

    http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/...aratist-group/
    You've got to be shitting me.
    And last week, putin claimed he would back the fuck off, while he appears to be doing just the opposite.
    And now we have 600 US infantry men over there flexing at the border...although i'm sure JSOC has been there for months.
    The official us position appears to be "Stop doing this shit or we will shoot at you."

    The human race makes me sick sometimes...it's not that i'm a nihilist, i'm a pacifist.
    Shouldn't we as rational, civilized beings be over the whole war bullshit by now?

  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    Shouldn't we as rational, civilized beings be over the whole war bullshit by now?
    oh we're definitely civilized, as in, part of civilization, but I'm not sure where you're getting rational from

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    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russian...post-1.2749066

    So it's pretty much a legit invasion at this point. Ukraine isn't a NATO state, so it isn't an automatic deceleration of war by the other members. Wonder how the UN will handle it? Telling Putin he is being a naught boy hasn't worked so far. Not that I'm a realist by any means, but something needs to be done.

    http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/...ampaign=buffer

    About Syria. Assad is now, strangely, America's ally against ISIS.

    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...aq_russia_gaza

    A good look at how the Obama administration has been handling its foreign policy. Surprise! He might not be the weak guy Republicans say he is.
    Last edited by icecream; 08-28-2014 at 10:13 AM.

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