Controversial Nine Inch Nails opinions

[Halo Infinity]

Actually on the subject of packaging, my own separate opinion: I *HATE* (loathe, despise, abhor, detest, etc etc) digipacks! There is nothing "premium" or value-added about them. In fact to me they seem downright cheap. In the NPR interview Trent says he's trying to spare fans the aggravation of opening a plastic case, but shit: you can tear or fuzz the edges of a cardboard sleeve while removing the shrinkwrap just as easily as you might crack plastic. At least if you crack a standard case, replacements are a buck a dozen. Digipacks wear out noticeably, don't always fit media shelves well, and his only truly creative use of them was Broken which I admit was clever. And maybe TDS' booklet was an easier fit, but that still required a slim jewel case. Maybe The Fragile gets a pass here too, since it was a double album and most double-disc plastic cases suck. But I wish all the other single-disc releases wish were in standard cases.

I've actually thought about that before, and yes, at least jewel cases are easily replaceable in comparison. To me, the best digipacks would have to be Broken, With Teeth, and And All That Could Have Been (Live/Still). I sometimes like to think what it would've been like if all of the other releases were in jewel cases. I'm sure Broken and The Downward Spiral probably would've had all clear jewel cases, or Broken's jewel case would've been like the one for Pretty Hate Machine. The Fragile's case probably could've looked like the cases that held Depeche Mode's 101, Michael Jackson's HIStory, and Final Fantasy VII. I'd like to think that would've looked cool, especially if the where the black parts that are supposed to be on it ended up red and/or gray just for The Fragile.

[Kyle]

Well, it was the first time Trent ever used that "sound", that vibe and feel for a track. If someone is relatively new to NIN, Into The Void seems to fit perfectly into their catalog, but when The Fragile first came out, it was very jarring, and while kinda "cool", I never really dug the groove, the music, the lyrics etc. It seemed out of place and kinda random, much as Starfuckers did, which many people have noted.

Really?

i bought The Fragile on the day of release and didn't find anything that far out of let field on Into the Void. I actually really liked it from the start.

My controversial opinion? While I don't find anything wrong with it, I also don't get why the Johnny Cash version of Hurt is considered so awesome. And I say that as someone who likes Johnny Cash (albeit in a casual fan kind of way) so I'm not knocking him at all.

[Kyle]

His lyrics on the first 3 records are the main reason why I love those first 3 records. There's some really great stuff, there. I say this as a really boring English Lit major and Sigma Tau Delta member who studied Milton for a full year.

PHM included?

[chroipahtz]

My controversial opinion? While I don't find anything wrong with it, I also don't get why the Johnny Cash version of Hurt is considered so awesome. And I say that as someone who likes Johnny Cash (albeit in a casual fan kind of way) so I'm not knocking him at all.

It was a powerful "final song" for him, and completely out of left field. A country legend covering Nine Inch Nails? Unthinkable. And probably made a lot of uptight Christians upset. The video was also very powerful.

[goingincirclez]

It's also fitting in the sense that Cash and Reznor could be considered kindred spirits of a sort. Both were supremely talented, arrogant, brash, and generally anti-social. Nonetheless, both were / are respected as legendary masters of their craft in their own time, and worked hard to achieve that respect. Both of them overcame many demons and addictions. But as for fully escaping others, and a stubborn sense of self-loathing and anxiety that followed from their pasts? Even as Trent says he is happy now, his work reveals he's not fully comfortable and may never be. Cash admitted as much himself, and became seemingly more morose and regretful toward the end (especially after June died).

It was a brilliant and fitting cover, a bilateral tribute of sorts. No matter the genre of expression, some feelings are indeed shared across boundaries from within.

[BRoswell]

Cash's cover is one of those rare covers that transcends the typical idea of covers. Most covers are essentially the same song with the same emotions complimented by a different arrangement. There's nothing wrong with that most of the time, especially if those emotions are rather potent. Cash's version of Hurt, however, completely transforms the song in my opinion. It becomes about something else. Something that still has a connection to what Trent was originally writing about, but from a much different viewpoint. And yes, it does have a lot to do with age. Trent was in his twenties when he wrote Hurt, and while I think it's a great song, as someone in their twenties, I can see that it DOES come from a rather inexperienced place. There's a "nothing left to lose" quality to it that you really can't write about once you've experienced the world, had kids and won an Oscar. Not to make those things seem trivial, but for someone like Cash, who had been there and done that long before Trent did, you get the sense that this is really the last word on it all. "You CAN have it all, cause I'm on my way out, and I can't take it with me." Trent was singing about everything being taken away. Cash was singing about GIVING it all away. It seems like a minor detail, but it makes all the difference in my opinion.

[chroipahtz]

Not to mention the fact that Cash was commonly abusive and made the people he cared about hurt. It's sort of a "sorry for all the bad things I did" mea culpa on your deathbed moment.

[joplinpicasso]

I agree, and like @BRoswell 's main idea.

Also, is Hesitation Marks my favorite NIN album? Maybe.

[Kyle]

Wow. Looks like I'm unintentionally winning the most controversial rating system given a couple pages earlier hahahaha.

I should clarify though. I get all those things. I'm referring simply to the song itself. And it may have something to do with the fact that by the time I heard the song I was familiar with all of those things and was expecting a song so awesome that it would give me a blow job when it was done. Or maybe the behind the scenes type stuff was better than the actual song. I dunno. But like I said I do appreciate everything mentioned above and I'm a fan (albeit a casual one) of the other Cash things I've heard. But whether it's my tastes or enhanced expectations it's the song itself that I don't quite get.

Another possibility is that watching Hurt performed on the FTDS tour (before the video was released but with the same setup) is still one of the most powerful things I've ever seen at a concert and that's the same reason almost every successive performance of the song by NIN (let alone anyone else) hasn't done much for me either.

[Khrz]

Yeah, Cash's Hurt may be the best cover ever for me. Contextually, it kills NIN's Hurt.
NIN's is a song about a young guy being sad. Cash's is about a dying man who's seen everything taken away from him.

[tony.parente]

AGREED on all counts. Although the WT era was pretty lackluster as well.


You know what would have been fucking awesome? Take the Deluxe Edition packaging, blow it all up to 12x12, and replace the cds with Vinyls. FUCK that would be a g o r g e o u s package, worthy of a coffee table presentation or something. I'd pay a good chunk o change to have something like that.

I want to know why a stupid soundtrack (TGWTDT) that almost no one listens to or cares about and Ghosts which is probably their least enjoyed album had possibly the greatest package/packaging options in trents musical history.

Why would he skip over this album in regards to good packaging and put so much effort into a soundtrack?

[Zipfinator]

I want to know why a stupid soundtrack (TGWTDT) that almost no one listens to or cares about and Ghosts which is probably their least enjoyed album had possibly the greatest package/packaging options in trents musical history.

Why would he skip over this album in regards to good packaging and put so much effort into a soundtrack?

Just because you don't enjoy TGWTDT or Ghosts doesn't mean other people don't.

[Kyle]

Just because you don't enjoy TGWTDT or Ghosts doesn't mean other people don't.

Agreed.

I listen to both quite a bit.

[tony.parente]

Just because you don't enjoy TGWTDT or Ghosts doesn't mean other people don't.

You can't sit and tell me that ghosts or TGWTDT are on the same level as Hesitation Marks.

[m15a]

You can't sit and tell me that ghosts or TGWTDT are on the same level as Hesitation Marks.

Ghosts is my favorite NIN album. ::shrug::. nothing wrong with thinking that it or TGWTDT suck, and nothing wrong with stating your opinion in this thread, but how can you possible determine they're the least enjoyed? . . . in any case, i think the answer to the question is either because columbia didn't want to do that, or NIN were somehow unsatisfied with the results of the past releases, or they felt that it just didn't suit the release of a regular album. i mean, conceptually, HM should sort of fit on your shelf next to TDS, while Ghosts is sort of a different thing.

[tony.parente]

Ghosts is my favorite NIN album. ::shrug::. nothing wrong with thinking that it or TGWTDT suck, and nothing wrong with stating your opinion in this thread, but how can you possible determine they're the least enjoyed? . . . in any case, i think the answer to the question is either because columbia didn't want to do that, or NIN were somehow unsatisfied with the results of the past releases, or they felt that it just didn't suit the release of a regular album. i mean, conceptually, HM should sort of fit on your shelf next to TDS, while Ghosts is sort of a different thing.

Through my extremely scientific methods of determining which album is the fandoms least favorite I direct you here: http://www.echoingthesound.org/commu...ank-NIN-Albums

[joplinpicasso]

@tony.parente , nice job linking a thread that I completely forgot I had even started! Not even sure my initial post remains the same.

Also... *drum roll* The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo is better than The Social Network. Trent crafted some of his best sounds ever on that soundtrack, and it is the apex of what Ghosts and TSN were heading towards. HM is Trent, as a songwriter, returning from that sonic void but still penning pop hooks. Glorious.

[BRoswell]

Why would he skip over this album in regards to good packaging and put so much effort into a soundtrack?

Because Trent wants you to be sad.

Also, The Slip and The Social Network both had fairly standard packaging. Where's the outcry over those albums?

[Kyle]

There's a huge difference between saying something doesn't compare to HM or is least enjoyed and saying its something that "hardly anyone listens to." In fact, I think those two along with TSN soundtrack might actually be the most listened to on my iPod. In all fairness, that's largely because its good music to listen to while doing homework because lyrics distract me, but there are still plenty of times I listen to those simply because they're damn good.

[Kyle]

@tony.parente , nice job linking a thread that I completely forgot I had even started! Not even sure my initial post remains the same.

Also... *drum roll* The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo is better than The Social Network. Trent crafted some of his best sounds ever on that soundtrack, and it is the apex of what Ghosts and TSN were heading towards. HM is Trent, as a songwriter, returning from that sonic void but still penning pop hooks. Glorious.

TGWTDT better than TSN? That's a tough one.

[tony.parente]

Because Trent wants you to be sad.

Also, The Slip and The Social Network both had fairly standard packaging. Where's the outcry over those albums?

The Slip had a DVD and stickers, and was limited in number making it desirable. And you're right about TSN.

EDIT: I wonder if T-Rez is reading this right now and calling me a cunt.

[Kyle]

How about as a controversial opinion that I don't give two shits about the packaging as long as much as the music quality.

Maybe that's an exaggeration. I give about a half a shit. Maybe one small one. But definitely not two.

[Halo Infinity]

So true. As much as I love the potential eye candy of good/great packaging, it would obviously SUCK SO HARD to not feel the music AT ALL.

[Amaro]

TGWTDT>TSN

Yes.

[Kyle]

Through my extremely scientific methods of determining which album is the fandoms least favorite I direct you here: http://www.echoingthesound.org/commu...ank-NIN-Albums

The only thing I got out of that thread is that if you were to take an average ranking for that whole thread, pretty much every album except for The Downward Spiral and The Fragile would be right smack in the middle. Yes, Ghosts was on the bottom of a number of lists, but I think The Slip was at the bottom of more lists and both of them were towards the top of other people's lists.

And I think the wide range of opinions is part of why I love NIN so much. The reason there's such a wide range of opinions is that Trent releases a wide range of music. Most other bands seem to have fairly consistent rankings (with of course variance for individual tastes), because most of their music is of the same style, so you're just picking out the best of that type of music. On the other hand, with the wide range of styles for NIN, your favorite depends on what kind of music you like. You like the loud stuff? Broken is going to be your favorite or at least toward the top of the list. You like the opposite extreme of the mellower sounds? Still will be your favorite, or at least toward the top of the list.. Like a lot of electronics? Year Zero will be your favorite, or at least toward the top of the list, etc.

Or just find someone who doesn't know much about NIN and play them Last, Leaving Hope and Satellite all back to back and tell them, "No seriously. That really is all the same band."

[tony.parente]

The only thing I got out of that thread is that if you were to take an average ranking for that whole thread, pretty much every album except for The Downward Spiral and The Fragile would be right smack in the middle. Yes, Ghosts was on the bottom of a number of lists, but I think The Slip was at the bottom of more lists and both of them were towards the top of other people's lists.

And I think the wide range of opinions is part of why I love NIN so much. The reason there's such a wide range of opinions is that Trent releases a wide range of music. Most other bands seem to have fairly consistent rankings (with of course variance for individual tastes), because most of their music is of the same style, so you're just picking out the best of that type of music. On the other hand, with the wide range of styles for NIN, your favorite depends on what kind of music you like. You like the loud stuff? Broken is going to be your favorite or at least toward the top of the list. You like the opposite extreme of the mellower sounds? Still will be your favorite, or at least toward the top of the list.. Like a lot of electronics? Year Zero will be your favorite, or at least toward the top of the list, etc.

Or just find someone who doesn't know much about NIN and play them Last, Leaving Hope and Satellite all back to back and tell them, "No seriously. That really is all the same band."

I just want a deluxe vinyl as cool as the new QOTSA record did.

[ComradeCornhole]

I don't think it's fair to compare Ghosts to other NIN albums. It's a complete apples and oranges situation. Two different genres of music with entirely different purposes. Regarding Dragon Tattoo>TSN? My opinion is that Dragon Tattoo is probably the most adventurous, bold and groundbreaking work of TR's career; but Social Network is more listenable. And finally, I can be counted among those that believe TR's instrumental forays are his most interesting work, and probably where his future artistic endeavors are best suited.

[sheepdean]

I don't think it's fair to compare Ghosts to other NIN albums. It's a complete apples and oranges situation. Two different genres of music with entirely different purposes.

Personally, I think Ghosts should've been released as TRAR, every single thing about the album screams "this is not NIN", and the only real reason it's released under the moniker was to show Interscope he could do an album without them

[theyellowdart]

I think Ghosts is NIN's best post 2005 Album.

[ComradeCornhole]

Personally, I think Ghosts should've been released as TRAR, every single thing about the album screams "this is not NIN", and the only real reason it's released under the moniker was to show Interscope he could do an album without them

My opinion is that as long as it's primarily from the mind of TR and it's sincere, there's no reason not to call it NIN. NIN can be whatever TR is at the time. Furthermore, it isn't as though the sound palette on display in Ghosts is without precedent in the NIN catalogue. Yes, it's very different, but not so much that anyone not in the know would be surprised to hear that it's the work of Trent Reznor. Going even further, aside from what I would guess is an increased role for Atticus, I see no reason why the scores couldn't be credited to NIN, as well. Shoot, the next Nails album could be jazz fusion (awesome) and I wouldn't feel like it was a betrayal of the "brand", because to my mind, there is no brand beyond the artistic direction that feels true to TR. The short version: Nine Inch Nails is Trent Reznor AND if he wants, Trent Reznor is Nine Inch Nails.