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Thread: The Marvel Thread - AVENGERS SPOILERS - James Gunn Fallout

  1. #1651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
    Here's the rule: teaser, then real trailer, then real trailer 2 etc.

    Pay attention to that word: Teaser.

    A teaser is always, always designed to show less than a full trailer. It even says "teaser trailer" on the description.

    I can't believe I need to say this but it's apparently necessary: the first look the studios give us at anything when they want to build up hype is a quick glimpse that's supposed to get us salivating for more but has outlived its purpose by goddamned years and always, always serves to irritate and confuse people unless it's Star Wars.

    I was expecting to see .5 seconds of Venom and not .5 seconds of a symbiote, sure, but there was enough here that it's got me looking forward to the real deal.
    That's true and I agree with you, but it also seems to imply that we won't see a great deal of Venom in action, which I hope isn't the case. As much as I like Tom Hardy, I don't want him to be out of the suit for most of the movie. A Venom movie should have plenty of Venom in it. And yes, I know we've only seen one minute and 49 seconds of the whole movie, but I must say that this teaser didn't excite me very much. I haven't given up hope, but I do hope the actual trailer shows the actual Venom and that it looks a little more exciting. At this point, it's looking more like a rental than a trip to the theater for me.

  2. #1652
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    I wouldn't take it as implying anything at all. "Official trailer #1" or whatever they call it will probably show us 75% of the movie anyway.

  3. #1653
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheWiseJanitor View Post
    I don't think the movie will be bad now, and honesty I'm still on-board for it and hope the next trailer resonates much better -But that was a boring trailer. You can do a lot with one minute, and when it's your first trailer, your film's first exposure to the public eye, wouldn't you want make a good impression to give faith to the people that have been waiting for it? If they want to try and undo the stigma of the Spidey 3 Venom from 11 years ago, what possible reason would they have for waiting even longer to roll out their Venom design?

    Know what I thought after the first Deadpool movie teaser? "YEP, THAT'S GONNA BE A DEADPOOL MOVIE."

    After watching the Venom teaser: "That's...yep, Tom Hardy's in it."
    Good point. Maybe they aren't completely finished with the CGI with the suit, which can validate them not showing it. If that is the case, take ALL the time you need. It creates more hype in my eyes since no one saw suit, when the first trailer comes out, it will attract even more people to watch it. I'm sure when the first teaser comes out, no doubt the suit reveal will be the headline. But I'm not throwing out any red flags just because the teaser was boring and didn't show us much. Shit, I'm happy that we are getting anything related to Venom to be honest. I dunno, I cannot see them fucking this up again juxtaposed to Spidey 3's Venom... I just can't see it lol...I'm keeping faith.
    Last edited by Self.Destructive.Pattern; 02-08-2018 at 11:27 PM.

  4. #1654
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    I'll just wait for the next trailer and what they might do. I want to give it the benefit of the doubt but Sony's track record when it comes these films aren't very good as they were the reason Spider-Man 3 was a mess and fucked up Venom and why those Amazing Spider-Man movies sucked.

  5. #1655
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    I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, too but anything other than completely integrating Spiderman into the origin of venom entirely misses the point and is honestly infuriatingly stupid.

  6. #1656
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
    Here's the rule: teaser, then real trailer, then real trailer 2 etc.

    Pay attention to that word: Teaser.

    A teaser is always, always designed to show less than a full trailer. It even says "teaser trailer" on the description.

    I can't believe I need to say this but it's apparently necessary
    I hear you, and I know what "teaser" means. And I know what the format is. I don't need the absolutely ridiculous trailer release format explained. That could not have less to do with why it's not a good trailer. The fact that it IS a teaser doesn't mean we have to feel teased regardless of whether anything was actually teased to us. I just didn't feel teased and thought it was boring.

    It's no different from a band waiting 10 years to drop an album, and for a tease they release 90 seconds of audio clips. Guess what? If those 90 seconds don't pull me in, it's a bad teaser. Them saying "but it's a teaser, so..." doesn't validate it by default. If your teaser isn't great, then skip it and just release a "real" trailer instead of following this LUDICROUSLY played-out trailer format.The hype WILL still be there if you don't make a teaser. You can only lose it if you trip over your own feet right out of the gate. There's no rulebook that says you HAVE to try and be cool with a teaser trailer first, and there's also no rule saying that as a fan, you just have to feel teased by it.

    As I've already said - I'm not even saying the movie looks bad or that I'm not looking forward to the *eyeroll* "real" trailer. I just. Thought. This. First. Teaser. Was. Boring. I can't believe I need to say this, but it's apparently necessary.

    And If I have to type "tease" again I'm gonna lose my fucking mind.

  7. #1657
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheWiseJanitor View Post
    I hear you, and I know what "teaser" means. And I know what the format is. I don't need the absolutely ridiculous trailer release format explained. That could not have less to do with why it's not a good trailer. The fact that it IS a teaser doesn't mean we have to feel teased regardless of whether anything was actually teased to us. I just didn't feel teased and thought it was boring.

    It's no different from a band waiting 10 years to drop an album, and for a tease they release 90 seconds of audio clips. Guess what? If those 90 seconds don't pull me in, it's a bad teaser.
    For you, perhaps. If those 90 seconds press all the buttons for someone else, your truth doesn't necessarily hold up. This teaser gave me - as a Venom fan, natch - much more than what I was expecting. It's very much a typical teaser, but because of the details they included, they couldn't have teased me more with a feather to my nards.

    I'm sorry if my post came off as condescending - I wasn't calling you out specifically - but I'm just really cynical about and exasperated with this whole teaser format and the reactions to it, which are never good. I want to say I'm surprised we didn't so much as catch a glimpse of him in full outfit or see teeth or whathaveyou - and IMO, the backlash to this serves to underline exactly how much people were hoping for that - but I'm really not.

  8. #1658
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
    Not especially. You can go to any Hot Topic or Wal-Mart and the odds of seeing a black Venom T-shirt in with the comic apparel are pretty good (I've owned two in my lifetime). Maybe none of his stories in particular are famous the way some Spidey stories might be, but the character himself certainly has permeated the zeitgeist, as you say. This movie wouldn't have left the ground unless that had happened, and it's been in development hell for years.

    And the reason you think this is lame is evident in your line of reasoning - that you consider him as a character who's fundamentally tied to Spider-Man. I say no; he's hit a such a level of cultural awareness and popularity that there's no reason to assume he couldn't strike out on his own. You don't get Doctor Octopus or Lizard T-shirts sold at Wal-mart or whathaveyou.

    The argument against the film that he needs Spidey to stand on his own feet - intrinsically tied to the notion "he's just a Spider-Man cast member", a notion long since past, is one I see come up time and time and time again, and it's only ever brought up by people familiar with comics. I don't think Joe Public really cares, and will just be happy to see a cool character show up.

    It's crazy easy to modify an origin for cinematic purposes, and exposure to a modified origin in cinema form can influence or change the popular perception of the character. At one point they nixed the entire extraterrestrial aspect and made it a cancer suit. Eddie and the symbiote's original history as Venom is such an involved one that it would need pruning down in any case, even if they were only including him in Spider-Man films.

    When this utterly bombs in October I'm going to quote this post from you sir (or madam)! haha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wretchedest View Post
    I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, too but anything other than completely integrating Spiderman into the origin of venom entirely misses the point and is honestly infuriatingly stupid.
    especially when you are coming off the MASSIVE hit that was Homecoming! Now you're just confusing casual people and angering core comic book fans by going in the opposite direction.

  10. #1660
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbie solo View Post
    When this utterly bombs in October I'm going to quote this post from you sir (or madam)! haha
    Signed and sealed. Back at you. I'm expecting it to do pretty well by comic movie standards.

  11. #1661
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    Remember when absolutely nobody who didn't read comics knew who Blade was and then the movie just came out and blew everyone's mind, made 70 million and spawned a few sequels? Fuck comic recognizeability and history. Who knew who the fucking Guardians of the Galaxy were before that first movie hit?

    All this thing needs to do is be a good movie and get remotely positive word of mouth for it to do well.
    Last edited by Shadaloo; 02-09-2018 at 08:32 PM.

  12. #1662
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    Fair point. But a few factors are different and I would imagine will affect things:

    - as said above, Venom has the stench of Spiderman 3 on it

    - Blade came out at a very different time, and it had no competition in terms of properties. Venom has to stack up to dozens of solid comic book movies now

    - No one knew GotG, but it has the MCU stamp on it, which people trust. Plus the franchise is for kids and adults, which clearly this Venom movie is not.

  13. #1663
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    Yeah, I'm not really into the idea that basically the costume makes it to the big screen and all of the other stuff I like gets thrown out... It defeats the purpose. And sure it could still be a good movie but I'd be lefting wanting a decent movie with

    -the black spider suit arc
    - Venoms personal hatred of Peter Parker
    -the way that Venoms responsibility towards Carnage forces him to team up with Peter Parker.

    That's all the stuff I like. And in many ways I feel like the direction this is going in pushes those experiences into the distant future, which is frustrating

  14. #1664
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbie solo View Post
    Fair point. But a few factors are different and I would imagine will affect things:

    - as said above, Venom has the stench of Spiderman 3 on it

    - Blade came out at a very different time, and it had no competition in terms of properties. Venom has to stack up to dozens of solid comic book movies now

    - No one knew GotG, but it has the MCU stamp on it, which people trust. Plus the franchise is for kids and adults, which clearly this Venom movie is not.
    All absolutely fair points. But I think Spidey 3 is actually one of the things that works in this movie's favor - like the near-death of the Batman films coming from the Schumacher days and going 3/4 of a decade until the Nolan films, the filmmakers know they have to work hard on this, give what's expected of the characters, if anything, and not fuck it up. It can be considered a kind of an advantage, having a "what not to do" proviso attached to it. I think that's one of the reasons we got such a kick-ass Deadpool, too, after that abomination in the Wolvie Origins film. They had to fix shit.

    I think what'll make or beak its success at the box office is mainly what it'll be up against in October, and it doesn't look to me like it has too much to worry about for competition in the weeks leading up to its release that would fatigue audiences much. Ant-Man & The Wasp is July, and "The Predator" is in August. After that you've got X-Men: Dark Phoenix (That didn't take long, and speaking of how not to fuck stuff up...) a month away

    And as far as Eddie's relationship with Peter goes, I'm really, really not worried. I don't wanna get into potentially spoilery shit but if you look around, there seems to be a lot of speculation about studios being willing to work with each other...

  15. #1665
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
    And as far as Eddie's relationship with Peter goes, I'm really, really not worried. I don't wanna get into potentially spoilery shit but if you look around, there seems to be a lot of speculation about studios being willing to work with each other...
    The speculation of Tom Holland as Peter Parker making an appearance is very intriguing. If he is indeed in the movie as a small cameo or something... I cannot see why they would eventually throw this into the MCU in some way. I like what you said in the first paragraph, almost my thoughts exactly.

  16. #1666
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    Quote Originally Posted by Self.Destructive.Pattern View Post
    The speculation of Tom Holland as Peter Parker making an appearance is very intriguing. If he is indeed in the movie as a small cameo or something... I cannot see why they would eventually throw this into the MCU in some way. I like what you said in the first paragraph, almost my thoughts exactly.
    I don't think they should do that. Leave Spider-Man in the MCU and keep Venom away from the MCU for now.

  17. #1667
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevoid99 View Post
    I don't think they should do that. Leave Spider-Man in the MCU and keep Venom away from the MCU for now.
    I am on the fence about it, but if they were to incorporate him in a clever way, I may be on board with that. Seems a bit premature though.

  18. #1668
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    Quote Originally Posted by Self.Destructive.Pattern View Post
    I am on the fence about it, but if they were to incorporate him in a clever way, I may be on board with that. Seems a bit premature though.
    The timing isn't right. I heard for the future Spider-Man movies, they kind of want to set a similar pattern like the Harry Potter films in terms of Parker's time in high school which I think is a good idea. That way, they can spend more time developing Parker as a person and as Spider-Man.

    I would hope that if they ever plan on doing a Spider-Man film with Miles Morales as Spider-Man, keep the Peter Parker on board as a mentor by the time he's in his 30s or something.

  19. #1669
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    Why the fuck would you want to keep Venom AWAY from the MCU? Of all the superheroes to isolate Venom might be one of the worst.

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    Hell, the GotG Venom stories alone would be great.


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    Seeing Black Panther tonight got a hot date...a large bag of popcorn (OK more like a warm salty and sweet date but never mind)

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    Saw Black Panther, but didn't get the popcorn (ques were too long and my local cinema is well known for being slow in serving) it's good fun! Went into detail on my cinema thread but, yeah it's a welcome change of pace and very much it's own film.

    Now if i can avoid the more dicks like the guy who sat next to me and spent the entire film looking at his phone and loudly commenting on the football scores, that would be great...

  23. #1673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haysey View Post
    Saw Black Panther, but didn't get the popcorn (ques were too long and my local cinema is well known for being slow in serving) it's good fun! Went into detail on my cinema thread but, yeah it's a welcome change of pace and very much it's own film.

    Now if i can avoid the more dicks like the guy who sat next to me and spent the entire film looking at his phone and loudly commenting on the football scores, that would be great...
    Its douchebags like him that make me miss opening weekend and make an early monday morning showing.

    Cant wait to see it.

  24. #1674
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    Saw 'Black Panther'. Was pretty solid. My mind wasn't blown, but I enjoyed it a lot. Very refreshing to see so many kick-ass ladies in a a Marvel movie. They were the MVPs for me, especially Okoye and Shuri.

    I think I've seen so many superhero movies that it's just hard to be really surprised by them anymore, especially when you know what movies are coming down the pipeline.

    My showing also had a bunch of people on their phones.

    People are the worst.
    Last edited by Mr. Blaileen; 02-16-2018 at 07:10 AM.

  25. #1675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Blaileen View Post
    My showing also had a bunch of people on their phones.

    People are the worst.
    I've been noticing this alot more recently. I thought it was only happening in films that weren't very good, but i've started noticing it on "good" films too. Hell at the special preview screening for The Shape or Water (the cinmea chain i'm a member of puts on advanced one off screening for some films a few weeks before they get national releases) it was sold out, a one off show and people were STILL on their phones. You might not be enjoying the film but don't ruin it for the rest of us!

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    I have to admit that I am a heavy phone user, but at the movies? Hell no! I paid good money to see it in theatres. If I wanted to do other things while watching I'd wait for it to hit rental services or streaming. This bugs me alot, but fortunately I haven't seen it that much recently. It's still those people who have conversations during the whole movie that anger me the most. It's lilke cracking jokes loudly at an intimate acoustic gig... what's the point? Go outside if what you see is not entertaining you but seemnigly others enjoy it.

    Hope to catch the Panther next week. There are only 3D showings that have it in english and I don't want to shell out the extra money. Here's hoping that in its second week it moves down to the smaller rooms.

  27. #1677
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    I'll always remember the time i went to see The Dark Knight Rises on release day, and a group of teens (they must have been late teens, early 20's) walked in just before the film started and started playing music loudly on there phone and not even watching the film. After 10mins of this the staff asked them to turn it off or leave...and after some arguing they left, having probably wasted 40-50 on their tickets just because they couldn't listen to their (god awful music)...i just don't get why you'd spend money to just ignore the film...some people are just odd.

  28. #1678
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    That's bizarre. There are so many stories floating around about awful behaviour in cinemas, but I've literally never experienced anything like that. The worst I've experienced are phones going off before being stifled by the embarassed owner, or teens whispering and giggling in the back. Or a couple heavily petting. Oh wait, that last one was me, I'm the worst person I've ever encountered in a cinema.

  29. #1679
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    Everyone who has seen Black Panther have either seen the greatest movie ever made, or are just over selling it.

    A few critics I trust say its good but still has its problems. I need to get off social media.

  30. #1680
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vertigo View Post
    That's bizarre. There are so many stories floating around about awful behaviour in cinemas, but I've literally never experienced anything like that. The worst I've experienced are phones going off before being stifled by the embarassed owner, or teens whispering and giggling in the back. Or a couple heavily petting. Oh wait, that last one was me, I'm the worst person I've ever encountered in a cinema.
    when i saw Looper with a group of friends & my wife in the theater, a group of middle-aged folks came in 15 minutes late, all talking (pretty sure they were drunk?) and looking at their phones. after another 10 minutes of this behavior, i asked them if they could put their phones away, and they basically told me to fuck off. i said "what is wrong with you people?" and one of the guys said "what do you mean we people?" my wife later heard him talking to his friends about kicking my ass after the movie, so she spent the whole time crying and being terrified. nothing actually happened afterwards, but i realized when the lights came up that because it was a group of black people, they must have thought i was being racist rather than just being pissed off at them for being extremely rude in a movie. i felt bad about that part, but they were still jerks.

    needless to say, this is a big contributing factor for my wife only ever going to opening night star wars showings with me, and otherwise never visiting the theater.

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