halo twenty eight. hesitation marks. 09.03.2013

[Seed_0]

I think the "loudness war" is largely overhyped fluff to sell magazines and give bloggers something to complain about. there's legitimate points but I think it's lost on most listeners.

I feel I've undone my own point here. I have no reference if the MASTERING on Everything is excessive. I think the song itself was composed using hyper compressed instrumentation and it sounds painful to me.

I think people are just confusing thierselves. NIN songs are made from many tracks. If you were to amp each of those tracks to an equal level you would have a mess. The frequency range difference between the tracks plays a huge role in a NIN song. Why Trent would even make a audiophile mastered version really doesn't make much since, and that is why there is very little difference between the two.

[Jon]

Take from this what you will, but here's the entries from the Dynamic Range Database. The entries with the "i" icon next to them have values for each track. These are just rough estimates, as the numbers are taken from compressed tracks.

[Seed_0]

Take from this what you will, but here's the entries from the Dynamic Range Database. The entries with the "i" icon next to them have values for each track. These are just rough estimates, as the numbers are taken from compressed tracks.

According to that PHM is the only album with good DR.

[eversonpoe]

According to that PHM is the only album with good DR.

right, because it was originally mastered in 1989, before things started to get too bad.

[emptydesk]

is nin really the type of music you want to have classical music-type "audiophile" dynamics? it's a wall of sound. i wouldn't want the original motown singles to sound any other way than those hot mono mixes.

[Seed_0]

is nin really the type of music you want to have classical music-type "audiophile" dynamics? it's a wall of sound. i wouldn't want the original motown singles to sound any other way than those hot mono mixes.

A good DR just means a great frequency peaks in the multi-tracks of the audio without clipping. Apparently the digital elements being used in the music are lacking in DR. Has anybody tested the DR of the NIN multi-tracks?

[screwdriver]

right, because it was originally mastered in 1989, before things started to get too bad.

dude, my favorite records have been made since 1989. things aren't "bad." some things sound good, some things don't.
https://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep...s/loudness.htm

[emptydesk]

A good DR just means a great frequency peaks in the multi-tracks of the audio without clipping. Apparently the digital elements being used in the music are lacking in DR. Has anybody tested the DR of the NIN multi-tracks?

dynamic range is the difference between the quietest and loudest signal. you could have a song with a dr of 1db and it could never clip, or a 10dr and clipping at every loud part.

[Seed_0]

dynamic range is the difference between the quietest and loudest signal. you could have a song with a dr of 1db and it could never clip, or a 10dr and clipping at every loud part.

Yes, I understand the that clipping is not part of the DR. I am talking about the quality. Ideally you do not want the clipping, and the mastering of songs has become more interested in amping the frequency resulting in more clipping and less DR.

[BenAkenobi]

tracklist for next nin album

1 getting noisier
2 i'm distorted
3 brickwalling myself
4 loudness is a warzone
5 push it to the limit
6 skin of your eardrum
7 graphic presentation
8 meters in the red
9 levels of pain
10 bridge (quiet)
11 waveformation
12 ping clip
13 zero crossings
14 equal eyes
15 minus 32767

[SchwarzerAbt]

5 push it to the limit

A cover of the Scarface song? Awesome! :-D

[eversonpoe]

dude, my favorite records have been made since 1989. things aren't "bad." some things sound good, some things don't.
https://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep...s/loudness.htm

sorry, i was being REALLY sarcastic haha. i often forget that it doesn't come through in text posts on the internet. i just thought seed_0's "revelation" that PHM was the only album with a good DR was a funny statement.

[implanted_microchip]

tracklist for next nin album

1 getting noisier
2 i'm distorted
3 brickwalling myself
4 loudness is a warzone
5 push it to the limit
6 skin of your eardrum
7 graphic presentation
8 meters in the red
9 levels of pain
10 bridge (quiet)
11 waveformation
12 ping clip
13 zero crossings
14 equal eyes
15 minus 32767

2/10 needs more Apple references

[Seed_0]

sorry, i was being REALLY sarcastic haha. i often forget that it doesn't come through in text posts on the internet. i just thought seed_0's "revelation" that PHM was the only album with a good DR was a funny statement.

It was not a revelation. The point being was that NIN songs have not relied on having a vast DR.

[m15a]

Yes, I understand the that clipping is not part of the DR. I am talking about the quality. Ideally you do not want the clipping, and the mastering of songs has become more interested in amping the frequency resulting in more clipping and less DR.

What do you mean by "amping the frequency"? (I don't have an opinion to add to the thread. Just trying to follow the discussion.)

EDIT: Random geek thought. Just realized that every time I see "DR", I think "damage reduction" and have to internally correct myself.

[BenAkenobi]

2/10 needs more Apple references

Manson already wrote Apple of Sodom, sorry!

[Ryan]

skin of your eardrum, haha

[Seed_0]

What do you mean by "amping the frequency"? (I don't have an opinion to add to the thread. Just trying to follow the discussion.)

EDIT: Random geek thought. Just realized that every time I see "DR", I think "damage reduction" and have to internally correct myself.

Watch the video on post #7004

[m15a]

Watch the video on post #7004

I just got around to re-wartching that video. I didn't hear the phrase "amping the frequency", can you point to it or just tell me what you mean? I'm guessing you're just talking about limiting or compression (or filtering?), but I wanted to check if there was some mixing/mastering concept or terminology I am not familiar with. Thanks.

[Seed_0]

I just got around to re-wartching that video. I didn't hear the phrase "amping the frequency", can you point to it or just tell me what you mean? I'm guessing you're just talking about limiting or compression (or filtering?), but I wanted to check if there was some mixing/mastering concept or terminology I am not familiar with. Thanks.

You lost me. You don't understand amplification?

[seasonsinthesky]

I just got around to re-wartching that video. I didn't hear the phrase "amping the frequency", can you point to it or just tell me what you mean? I'm guessing you're just talking about limiting or compression (or filtering?), but I wanted to check if there was some mixing/mastering concept or terminology I am not familiar with. Thanks.

You're not missing anything. Seed_0 has a very inaccurate way of typing about these matters. Reading all his posts about the DR issue, it becomes quite clear there are many jumbled terms and not a lot of understanding happening in there.

[m15a]

You lost me. You don't understand amplification?

Uh, don't worry about it. I think I get what you meant.

[Seed_0]

You're not missing anything. Seed_0 has a very inaccurate way of typing about these matters. Reading all his posts about the DR issue, it becomes quite clear there are many jumbled terms and not a lot of understanding happening in there.

Once again for those that fail to understand. Just about all of NIN's releases have not had an over all great DR. While DR can be considered an aspect of quality, it has not hindered the popularity of NIN's songs. A great DR was not required to find enjoyment in them. I feel that any unwanted distortion caused by clipping is much worse than a lack of high DR. Columbia is more than likely responsible for the squashed HM. If you look at Ghosts and TS they were not as bad as that.

[Halo Infinity]

[HWB]

Came here just to say that I adore this album, I've bought it several times without any regrets, each listen is a journey, love it to pieces, after all those years it held up really amazingly and I love every track this album has to offer, I love its connections to The Downward Spiral, it can be easily be listened to as a sequel to it (I wrote analysis looking at it from that point of view not so long time ago). It's just an amazing experience and it was very different take on NIN.

[sick among the pure]

Re-listening through Hesitation Marks for the first time after letting it sit for a while, using headphones. Picking up on a lot of sounds I never caught before, and really enjoying everything more than I had before.
Honestly, I have never listened to ANYTHING that Trent has done and not grown to enjoy it more and more years later. As much as there have been songs that were "love at first listen", everything he puts out grows on me with time.

All in all, I think this album gets more hate than it should. I think too many people go straight to comparing albums instead of just liking them for what they are. Nothing will ever live up to what NIN fans feel about The Downward Spiral or The Fragile. But we shouldn't let that keep us from loving what is a really god damn good album.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I'm telling you guys, Hez Marks is the best Massive Attack album since Mezzanine..

[Shadaloo]

For a fair few months after it was released I was calling this my third favorite album right under TDS and TF.

Opinions change. I don't hate it, but I'd say I don't think quite as highly of it as I once did - it's somewhere in the lower middle for me now. Live drums could have helped a ton. NTAE is several orders of magnitude better.

[henryeatscereal]

I'm telling you guys, Hez Marks is the best Massive Attack album since Mezzanine..

Funny, i said the same thing about "Welcome Oblivion" by HTDA

[ultimatebdp]

I like the album, but I don't think a lot of the songs translated well live...especially in big outdoor arenas. Weird to say, but it's a pretty "quiet" album...much like "Welcome Oblivion." With headphones, they sound really cool. In the car or at a show...they lose details.

Hearing NTAE for the first time made me VERY happy he was shifting out of that phase!!