halo twenty eight. hesitation marks. 09.03.2013

[BRoswell]

It often comes off as superficial and full of cliches.

Please. Those cliches have been built into the lyrics since Pretty Hate Machine. I've said it before, but with a few exceptions, Trent has never been a great lyricist. He certainly can evoke certain feelings through his words, but his lyrics have never been particularly amazing. That's not to say I hate them. I enjoy his lyrics quite a bit, but if you think he's only recently turned to those cliches, you might want to think again.

Also, am I the only one who has never felt that Trent's music is a completely accurate reflection of who he is? I've always seen his music like I see the relationship between an author and a book they may write. They may speak of feelings and situations we can relate to in some way, and sometimes the inspiration comes from their own lives, but in the end, it's fiction. Trent even said that The Downward Spiral only became autobiographical in some ways AFTER it was made. I don't think Trent has to be wallowing in misery to write and record music about it. Trent knows his genre and he sticks to it. If you're tired of the genre, stop reading. Simple as that.

[Halo Infinity]

Or that getting older somehow removes all your problems and makes you immune to feeling anything negative or painful in life, a criticism NIN seems to have gotten since The fucking Fragile. You'd think people would have the opposite attitude, that as you age you have more reasons to be upset, but not music critics apparently.

I actually brought this up recently. (Well, more like last month.)

http://www.echoingthesound.org/commu...217#post255217

It always occurred me as well, since a lot of those topics can also be very relatable in advanced age, especially from all the losses that will be experienced or witnessed by then, aside from other reasons to suffer and worry in those years. I understand that it doesn't always have to be that way, and that there are choices to make one's life better, but sometimes suffering and worrying is obviously and inevitable and irrevocable part of life. (And life sometimes seems to eat itself and crash down on itself too, with very little to no explanation or meaning.)

To me, Nine Inch Nails was also about dealing with pain and loss, and owning up to it, but overcoming it. If it turns out to be cycle, I'm able to understand and accept that, because such is life from time to time depending on one's life and overall situations, as morbid as that sounds and is. One thing often starts where another thing ends anyway, good or bad. As nice as it would be, none of those "bad" things ever completely go away no matter how old you are, and there is no such thing as being prepared and equipped to deal with all sorts of fates. But of course, some might have it worse than others, better than others and everything else between.

I'm also thinking about the line of The Wretched that made me think of it. "You can try to stop it, but it keeps on coming." But how you deal with it is your choice, but at the same time, sometimes it isn't. One thing is for sure is that it'll keep on coming no matter what, just like the truth itself, which got me to think of Hurt's "I focus on the pain, the only thing that's real."

That is not to say that life is supposed to be all about pain and death either, but it's a harsh reality that all of us must face, and I think that's the nerve Nine Inch Nails seems to constantly strike on his albums. I don't think pain can be outgrown, but of course, there are still more mature and rational ways to deal with it. But even so, there are still levels of suffering and loss that nobody will ever be ready for, no matter what. It's why Hurt really cut through me the first time I listened to it. I also liked the way you summed up Demon Seed and Black Noise by the way, as I've always felt that way about both songs as well, since it can strike at any time. Clarity and solace itself can also be very "fragile" as well. "Watch the white. Turn to red. It fills up the hole, but it grows somewhere else instead." and "Nothing ever grows and the sun doesn't shine all day." came to mind whenever I thought about this as well.

I'm also convinced that it's probably because discussing mental health issues is generally a taboo in most cases. I also wish that I realized it sooner, but if it's not necessarily a controversial and depressing topic, it can also lead to all sorts of arguments and ridicule as well, even if you're trying your best and it doesn't even matter if you're being absolutely sincere while making absolutely no excuses. It also doesn't help that we're sometimes forced to pretend to be happy, enthusiastic and positive in certain situations due to stigma attached to any sort of negativity in general, so I can actually accept why Trent's lyrics get criticized for those very reasons, aside from repeating certain lyrics over the decades, since those sort of topics are expected to be privately solved and just kept to ourselves.

As The Day The World Went Away goes "The plastic face forced to portray.", The Collector's "I am a good boy and will swallow it all. Swallow it all. Swallow it all." and Every Day Is Exactly The Same's "Sometimes I think I'm happy here. Sometimes, yet I still pretend."

It sort of helped me understand why Trent Reznor admitted that it felt like he put his soul out on display for everybody to tear it to shreds. I can't seem to find it now, but he actually said something along the lines of, and I'm merely paraphrasing here: "Here's my soul being bare to the public. Have at it. Tear it to shreds." I think he said that when he put out Pretty Hate Machine. He also seemed to admit that it was "embarrassing shit" as well. This is probably the closest thing I could find on it. So it would seem that he was aware that there was a chance that his lyrics would be perceived/deemed to be "embarrassing shit" from the start.

Trent Reznor: I didn't really find my own voice until I realized I'd been keeping a journal of embarrassing shit. It was filled with things that I felt like I had to get out of my head because I felt like I was losing my mind. Lots of angry feelings. I started to realize that a lot of that writing could work as lyrics. I wondered what would happen if I matched them up with music.

Source: http://www.vice.com/read/nine-inch-n...he-midwest-456

I also wouldn't put him still using personal journals as inspiration/ideas for lyrics past him either, since these types of thoughts of emotions can be carried on and/or followed for decades, and as a result, I can see why that would provide a wealth of song writing. I suppose I'm also used to his lyrics, so I was never really disappointed in them either. And even with marriage and having children, living happily ever after is just far from the truth in most cases after that, as awesome as that would be. There will always be a lot of things to wrestle, sort out and work out.

And to somehow get back on topic, Hesitation Marks seemed to be about surviving it all, but still reliving some of it from time to time mentally and emotionally since some wounds never fully heal, considering the name of the album itself and songs like Came Back Haunted and Find My Way. I went on a lot longer than I thought I would again, but it always struck a nerve with me. I'm also fully aware and accept that it's not for everybody and also understand how and why some fans would sometimes tire of those topics too, so I still didn't forget to consider those factors either. If it's not for you in the long run, then that's that. It always seemed like one of those things to me anyway.

[Dr Channard]

...what's bothering me personally with NIN is not the fact that the lyrics concern those topics. It's more in the way they're adressed. It often comes off as superficial and full of cliches. And as someone who knows his NIN you've heard them a million times before.

Yup. Love it or hate it, that’s our Trent. But hey, to my knowledge he has never put on any pretense about his lyrics. He doesn’t go around billing himself as some kind of modern William Shakespeare, *ahem* William Corgan. And what Trent may lack in lyrical genius, he makes up for with emotional intensity of delivery. As a random example, have you heard the man deliver the lyrics,

Me and my fucking gun

Me and my fucking gun

Me and my fucking gun

Well, if you haven’t heard it, let’s just say that he sings the hell out of it. It is a real treat. Of course the emotion in the delivery of HM is of a different sort and intensity, but it is still there.

I think in his interview with RS he said that the album (HM) was supposed to feel “sparse and minimal.” Could that creative approach have extended to the lyrics as well as the music? The music was as much of a polished and smooth ride as we’ve ever gotten from nin, the accompanying lyrics didn’t hit me as being all that out of place.

[BenAkenobi]

... Of course the emotion in the delivery of HM is of a different sort and intensity, but it is still there...

I like how you guys tend to... diplomatic ways of describing this album

[BRoswell]

I like how you guys tend to... diplomatic ways of describing this album

As opposed to, what, complaining about it? Personally, all of the complaints I've seen are kind of ridiculous, and a lot of them have come from people who weren't going to like the album anyway, so who cares? I have a couple issues of my own (a lack of real drums, Everything and Satellite showing off their "made for Greatest Hits album" feel a bit), but I'm not going to post page after page of complaints. I'd rather talk about what works than what doesn't.

[nineinchnerd]

HM and TDS are my two favorite NIN albums. They're pretty much life bookends.

[BenAkenobi]

As opposed to, what, complaining about it?

I'm not sure if this is a complaint, but it just seems funny to me, because...

I'm merely paraphrasing here: "Here's my soul being bare to the public. Have at it. Tear it to shreds."

that's my reaction: "here Trent, shred me, tear my bare soul" but instead of kicking my ass senseless all he did was a relaxing massage and a free taxi ride home

[BRoswell]

that's my reaction: "here Trent, shred me, tear my bare soul"

What is this, 1992?

[BenAkenobi]

No, it's not 1992, i was too young then. But i have examples of 2002, 2005, 2007 and 2008 all genuinely kicking ass like there's no tomorrow

[Dr Channard]

that's my reaction: "here Trent, shred me, tear my bare soul" but instead of kicking my ass senseless all he did was a relaxing massage …

　
Well, in the last 10 to 15 seconds of the album the smooth electronics fell away as the roar of some horrendous machine finally came grinding up to the surface. So ...was that at least like a happy ending?

[CRIMinal]

From Russell Mills' newsletter in regards to Hesitation Marks:

Cargo In The Blood | The Reverse Is Also True

The limited edition multiple focusing on the art works made for Nine Inch Nails’ Hesitation Marks album is currently in production. The multiple, which will be produced in a limited edition will include a five colour 320 page fully illustrated hardback book showing all the works made for the commission with interpretative texts and essays charting the ideas behind and processes used in each work. Each will also contain an original mixed media work framed in Corten steel and a uniquely coded etched Corten Steel plate. Every copy will be encased in a folding and individually cauterised suede portfolio. Edition number, price and publication date tbc

[Shnoorum]

Completely side tracking all the The Fragile hype with this post but I just discovered the 3 demos from Hesitation Marks. I had no idea of their existance up 'till now. They are incredibly good. Kinda makes me sad that they won't ever be finished. Currently listening to the demo version of All Time Low which I also never knew existed. Anyone else getting serious Hotline Miami vibes from demo 3?

Mostly posting this for the other poor buggers who missed these but also to see if there are any other delicious secrets that I may have missed?

[nineinchnerd]

Wow, some of the reviews here on Amazon are freakin' hilarious! Read at your own risk:

http://www.amazon.com/Hesitation-Mar...&pageNumber=37

[sheepdean]

Wow, some of the reviews here on Amazon are freakin' hilarious! Read at your own risk:

http://www.amazon.com/Hesitation-Mar...&pageNumber=37

Nothing compares to how P4K reviewed The Fragile http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/5799-the-fragile/

[Dr Channard]

Wow, some of the reviews here on Amazon are freakin' hilarious! Read at your own risk:

http://www.amazon.com/Hesitation-Mar...&pageNumber=37

Yeah funny, out of the 370 customer reviews HM is averaging a sturdy 4.1 out of 5 stars. Not bad.



I’d like to see any of these people bitching about the album try to do any better.

[nineinchnerd]

The titles to some of the reviews are priceless:


'Hesitate For the Electro-Jazzy Jam Lullaby Party'

'I didn't know Trent was in Daft Punk ...'

'No Effort, Too much Hesitation'

'Step away from the blips, bleeps, and loops. It's been old since Year Zero.'

'The worst thing trent reznor has ever done'

The majority of these people bash the album for it not being more like what came in the past. Which is baffling to me. Why would they pay for more of the same???????

[BenAkenobi]

I’d like to see any of these people bitching about the album try to do any better.

Wait, do you mean you'd like anyone not impressed by a work of famous artist to produce their own work of art? that's not how it works.

[Krazy]

Any "non shitty" album or TM review gets around 4 stars. Go look around ticketmaster or iTunes, it's all redundant, so whether you like the music/artist or not its a moot point.

Theres a a lot of fans that don't care for HM (myself included), life goes on. To be honest though I'd rather have it than not have it.

[Dr Channard]

Wait, do you mean you'd like anyone not impressed by a work of famous artist to produce their own work of art? that's not how it works.

No, not quite…

Wait, do you mean you'd like anyone not impressed by *[bitching about] a work of famous artist *[HM] to produce their own work of art *[do any better]?

*Fixed.

[BenAkenobi]

There's a thin line to be occasionally crossed, though, don't you think?
For example, me saying things like "the eater of dreams" track was so promising, but it ends too soon, it's not fulfilling.
Same with closing track "black noise", it feels like teasing and cutting the album short. Surely could be expanded.
I mean, there weren't specific time limits, such as having to match sides on cassette tape, there's more than ten extra minutes left on CD.
The team could do wonders just with the intro/outro!
This is my bitching, sorry if anyone's offended.

[Dr Channard]

There's a thin line to be occasionally crossed, though, don't you think?
For example, me saying things like "the eater of dreams" track was so promising, but it ends too soon, it's not fulfilling.
Same with closing track "black noise", it feels like teasing and cutting the album short. Surely could be expanded.
I mean, there weren't specific time limits, such as having to match sides on cassette tape, there's more than ten extra minutes left on CD.
The team could do wonders just with the intro/outro!
This is my bitching, sorry if anyone's offended.

I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to come across like an ass. Nothing against you or your thoughts about the album. I was refering to the HM bitching in that amazon link nineinchnerd posted. Bitching like, “stop making this CRAP and come to your senses!” or, “this thing is a a true turd without water.”

There is a difference between that kind of pointless bitching and just saying, “I listened to the album and I wasn’t impressed.”

Personally HM isn’t a favorite of mine either. And I may agree with some of the things you pointed out about it. I think the album hit some high notes, but a number of the tracks just weren’t for me.

There is nothing wrong with not liking the album, and sharing thoughts about it. Still, I don’t think that validates the overt disrespecting or bashing of Trent and the album that we see in that link.

[Copy_of_an_Echo]

Did anyone ever poke fun at this Ozric Tentacles song here? I thought Born To Be Alive by Patrick Hernandez was kind of funny because of it's slight resemblance to Copy of A, but this freaken song below here makes me question where Trent got his ideas in the first place lol.

I mean, listen to how the bass synth around the time signature when the drums come in haha wtf.

[katara]

this freaken song below here makes me question where Trent got his ideas in the first place lol.

It's called an arpeggiator. Honestly, it reminds me more of retro videogames than anything else, which used arpeggios (split chords) to make up for the technical limitations of the hardware (which didn't support chords).

[Khrz]

It's called an arpeggiator. Honestly, it reminds me more of retro videogames than anything else, which used arpeggios (split chords) to make up for the technical limitations of the hardware (which didn't support chords).

Yeah if anything, in the context of CoA, it feels like a better comparison.



But, it's just an arpeggio. Given Reznor's musical background, it's not surprising that he would use it, and I don't really think it's a nod to anything in particular, other than "How do I conclude that song... Hey, I've never done arpeggi..."

[eversonpoe]

Did anyone ever poke fun at this Ozric Tentacles song here? I thought Born To Be Alive by Patrick Hernandez was kind of funny because of it's slight resemblance to Copy of A, but this freaken song below here makes me question where Trent got his ideas in the first place lol.

I mean, listen to how the bass synth around the time signature when the drums come in haha wtf.

also, this riff resolves into an even 4/4 eventually, whereas the arpeggio in copy of a stays "off" consistently.

[snaapz]

I know my opinion is my own and doesn't mean a thing, but HM is the one album I never listen to, I haven't accepted it yet... I don't really get excited. I don't like it other than the first few songs.

I'm gonna give it another go right now while I work.

[Microwave Jellyfish]

You should listen to it after work, with a cold drink in your hand. Best possible circumstances to make friends with any record.

[BRoswell]

Yeah, never listen to a full album at work, especially a NIN album.

[Dr Channard]

Well, that may depend on what your job is. If you’re at the office making copies of the report for the big meeting, Copy of A may be called for. If you’re a pizza delivery person struggling to find the right house, racing against the “free pizza” delivery deadline clock, then perhaps Find My Way or Running might be appropriate. If your career path has lead you to the gainful employment of whoring your body on the cruel streets to unsavory individuals for 5 bucks a pop, maybe All Time Low should be spinning.

[theimage13]

Yeah, never listen to a full album at work, especially a NIN album.

Recording engineers, please disregard this advice.