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Faceplams: WHAT THE HOLY SHITTING FUCK, CNN!!!?
Throbbing Member
WHAT THE HOLY SHITTING FUCK, CNN!!!?
Administrator
Lives destroyed? OMG how about the rape victim?! Fucking rape culture.
Active Member
wtf. When did CNN turn into Fox? Yea, those poor rapists have ruined their future chances of raping more people.
Pro tip: don't rape people!
tempus est umbra in mente
It's like an Onion article... an incredibly dark Onion article.
That's just unbelievable. I feel sick.
Last edited by Jinsai; 03-17-2013 at 10:02 PM.
Bite me
I dunno, if you watch the whole thing she seems to be saying their "promising lives" are over because they're now registered sex offenders. Or something.
if there is a moral to this story, it's this: KIDS, DON'T DRINK!!! Teens have bad enough judgment as it is; add too much booze and CELL PHONES and it gets way out of hand. This DRINKING culture is the real root of the problem. And trading cell phone photos of a passed out drunk assaulted girl? Wtf. Our entire culture is so full of disgusting lack of empathy and people who only give a fuck about taking and sharing cell phone pictures. THEY SHOULD ALL GO TO JUVIE JAIL!!!
Judge Lipps described much of the evidence as “profane and ugly.” In sentencing the boys, he said rape was among the gravest of crimes and noted that they could have been tried as adults with far harsher punishments. He also said the case was a cautionary lesson in how teenagers conduct themselves when alcohol is present and in “how you record things on social media that are so prevalent today.”
The trial also exposed the behavior of other teenagers, who wasted no time spreading photos and text messages with what many in the community felt was callousness or cruelty.
And that aspect of the case may not be complete. The Ohio attorney general, Mike DeWine, said after the verdict that he would convene a grand jury in a month to finish the investigation.
In an interview, Mr. DeWine said that while it was not clear that more people would face charges, prosecutors might consider offenses that include obstruction of justice, failure to report a felony and failure to report child abuse. State officials have interviewed almost 60 people — students, coaches, school officials and parents — but 16, most of them juveniles, have refused to speak to investigators.
Last edited by allegro; 03-20-2013 at 03:18 AM.
tempus est umbra in mente
actually, the Onion did post something like this about a year ago.
Stubby Member
Wow, are you serious? I can't tell.Originally Posted by allegro
Administrator
Or you know, young men could be taught what rape is and not to do it.
Active Member
I'm pretty sure that no matter how drunk me and my (male) friends get (and believe me, we like to get BLOT-TO), we never forget that stuff like rape is bad. That like, touching up a girl who's unconscious is bad and that filming it and sharing it is also bad.
How about females have to be taught not to wear short skirts?
How about females have to be taught not to wear make up?
How about females have to be taught never to go outside?
Because, you know, men are defenseless cockmonkeys with no social skills or moral compass and we can't help that!
I'm most disgusted at how female "newsreaders" in the media are pushing this.
Administrator
I want to make sweet consensual love to that post, Shreena.
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Male and female teens should NOT be drinking. Period. Especially not to the point where they pass out. You could get MURDERED for Christ sake. This is NOT the same as "wearing a short skirt." It IS, however, important to use the limited brain that you have as a teen and assume that teens these days are apparently careless, crude and POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS assholes with zero compassion and zero common sense. The dozens of teens - boys and girls - who saw the teen girl passed out after ILLEGALLY drinking VODKA SLUSHIES should have called a parent or the police. The PARENTS didn't raise ANY of these kids right. Drinking VODKA SLUSHIES at a teen party? ADULTS can't handle that shit, let alone teens!! How the hell did they get that shit? Where was the parent at this house party? That girl could have had alcohol poisoning; she could have DIED. The adult binge-drinking culture is bleeding into teen culture. And it's all dangerous and stupid. Defending that behavior is just as stupid and dangerous. Note that those drunk teens then went out and DROVE A CAR. With the unconscious drunk girl in the car!
I know that when I was a teen girl, I assumed drunk or high teen boys were potential crazed maniacs and I couldn't predict their behavior so I stayed the fuck out of those situations. Drunk teen FOOTBALL PLAYERS? Bring a fucking UZI!! The best way to protect our daughters is to try to raise good sons but that's NEVER worked so the next best thing is to teach girls to protect themselves. Don't drink, always be aware of your surroundings, carry pepper spray and never go anywhere alone. My feminist mother taught me JUDO.
As I said, the police should charge every one of those teens who did nothing and/or posted pics and vids with CRIMINAL CHARGES. This girl was very brave for filing charges against these animals. That's what they are: animals. But this is also a teachable moment for teens and parents as to the callous jungle in which we live. This ain't fucking Happy Days; this is more like Lord of the Flies.
Case in point: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...s-report-says/
Last edited by allegro; 03-18-2013 at 02:39 PM.
Throbbing Member
I'm... really surprised at the tone of your whole post, but especially this. I would have thought the moral to be: don't rape, and don't let your friends rape.
Bite me
read my above post.
OF COURSE people should not:
- get people so drunk that they're passed out
- have sexual relations with people without their CONSCIOUS CONSENT
- take VIDEOS AND PHOTOS of drunk passed out people
- post said videos and photos of drunk and naked passed out people to the general public
- neglect to call the authorities or at least a parent to assist a drunk passed out girl who could have DIED from drinking
Those are all givens.
But TEENS SHOULD NOT DRINK should be in there, too. This is NOT saying that victims "deserve" to be victims; that's fucking faulty logic. I'm simply saying PROTECT YOURSELF! Not just from rape, videos, assault, but FROM DEATH!
There is a REASON why alcohol is illegal to minors or people under 21 (in this country). Binge drinking is a big problem, here. Overly drunk adults are stupid enough; teens don't even have fully-functional cerebral cortexes, yet.
It's also DANGEROUS behavior; you could get in a drunk driving accident, you could get alcohol poisoning, you could die. Everyone seems to love binge drinking so much that they're defending drinking, despite the fact that this poor girl was UNCONSCIOUS and could have DIED. Never mind all the other HORRIBLE things that happened to her because she was unable to defend herself due to these idiots feeding her and themselves vodka.
Teens should be READING THIS: http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-shee...e-drinking.htm
Fact Sheets
Underage Drinking
Alcohol use by persons under age 21 years is a major public health problem.1 Alcohol is the most commonly used and abused drug among youth in the United States, more than tobacco and illicit drugs1, and is responsible for more than 4,700 annual deaths among underage youth2. Although drinking by persons under the age of 21 is illegal, people aged 12 to 20 years drink 11% of all alcohol consumed in the United States.3 More than 90% of this alcohol is consumed in the form of binge drinks.3 On average, underage drinkers consume more drinks per drinking occasion than adult drinkers.4 In 2010, there were approximately 189,000 emergency rooms visits by persons under age 21 for injuries and other conditions linked to alcohol.5
Drinking Levels among Youth
The 2011 Youth Risk Behavior Survey6 found that among high school students, during the past 30 days
39% drank some amount of alcohol.
22% binge drank.
8% drove after drinking alcohol.
24% rode with a driver who had been drinking alcohol.
Other national surveys
In 2011 the National Survey on Drug Use and Health reported that 25% of youth aged 12 to 20 years drink alcohol and 16% reported binge drinking.7
In 2011, the Monitoring the Future Survey reported that 33% of 8th graders and 70% of 12th graders had tried alcohol, and 13% of 8th graders and 40% of 12th graders drank during the past month.8
Consequences of Underage Drinking
Youth who drink alcohol 1, 4, 9 are more likely to experience
School problems, such as higher absence and poor or failing grades.
Social problems, such as fighting and lack of participation in youth activities.
Legal problems, such as arrest for driving or physically hurting someone while drunk.
Physical problems, such as hangovers or illnesses.
Unwanted, unplanned, and unprotected sexual activity.
Disruption of normal growth and sexual development.
Physical and sexual assault.
Higher risk for suicide and homicide.
Alcohol-related car crashes and other unintentional injuries, such as burns, falls, and drowning.
Memory problems.
Abuse of other drugs.
Changes in brain development that may have life-long effects.
Death from alcohol poisoning.
In general, the risk of youth experiencing these problems is greater for those who binge drink than for those who do not binge drink.9
Youth who start drinking before age 15 years are five times more likely to develop alcohol dependence or abuse later in life than those who begin drinking at or after age 21 years.10, 11
Prevention of Underage Drinking
Reducing underage drinking will require community-based efforts to monitor the activities of youth and decrease youth access to alcohol. Recent publications by the Surgeon General1 and the Institute of Medicine4 outlined many prevention strategies that will require actions on the national, state, and local levels, such as enforcement of minimum legal drinking age laws, national media campaigns targeting youth and adults, increasing alcohol excise taxes, reducing youth exposure to alcohol advertising, and development of comprehensive community-based programs. These efforts will require continued research and evaluation to determine their success and to improve their effectiveness.
References:
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The Surgeon General's Call to Action to Prevent and Reduce Underage Drinking. Rockville, MD: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services; 2007.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Alcohol-Related Disease Impact (ARDI). Atlanta, GA: CDC.
Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention. Drinking in America: Myths, Realities, and Prevention Policy [PDF-1.08MB]. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, 2005.
Bonnie RJ and O’Connell ME, editors. National Research Council and Institute of Medicine, Reducing Underage Drinking: A Collective Responsibility. Committee on Developing a Strategy to Reduce and Prevent Underage Drinking. Division of Behavioral and Social Sciences and Education. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press, 2004.
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, Center for Behavioral Health Statistics and Quality. The DAWN Report: Highlights of the 2010 Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) Findings on Drug-Related Emergency Department Visits [PDF-410KB]. Rockville, MD; 2012.
Eaton DK, Kann L, Kinchen SA, et al. Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance—United States, 2011 [PDF-3.46MB]. CDC Morb Mort Surveil Summ 2012;61(SS-04):1–162.
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. Results from the 2011 National Survey on Drug Use and Health: Summary of National Findings [PDF-3.22MB] (NSDUH Series H-44, HHS Publication No. SMA 12-4713). Rockville, MD: Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, 2012.
Johnston, L D, O'Malley P M, Bachman, J G, & Schulenberg J E. "Monitoring the Future national results on adolescent drug use: Overview of key findings, 2011 [PDF 1.64 MB] Ann Arbor, MI: Institute for Social Research, The University of Michigan.
Miller JW, Naimi TS, Brewer RD, Jones SE. Binge drinking and associated health risk behaviors among high school students. Pediatrics 2007;119:76–85.
Hingson RW, Heeren T, Winter MR. Age at drinking onset and alcohol dependence: age at onset, duration, and severity. Pediatrics 2006;160:739–746.
Office of Applied Studies. The NSDUH Report: Alcohol Dependence or Abuse and Age at First Use. Rockville, MD: Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, October 2004.
Last edited by allegro; 03-18-2013 at 02:54 PM.
Active Member
That's a very conservative view.
Even though our drinking age is 18 years old in Canada, I did some hardcore partying starting at 15. However, it was mostly under adult supervision. My parents didn't have any problems with me having parties in the basement, that way they could keep an eye if something bad happened (which never did).
I think it all depends on how you were raised and the values transmitted by your parents.
I will never forbid my kid to drink if he's 16. That's how kids rebel and that's when you lose control.
Bite me
It's not logical to compare Canada or Europe to the United States. We have very specific problems related to our own binge drinking culture.
See the above report issued by the CDC.
That could land your parents in jail in this country.
Last edited by allegro; 03-18-2013 at 03:00 PM.
Active Member
Fair enough.
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Active Member
Cultural drinking problem or not (which in itself sounds like a valid problem to be tackled), it doesn't legitimise what happened one bit. Even if you're so drunk you can't move or see, even if you lose consciousness, you're not automatically an open invitation for sex, being hit, being pissed on. Ever ever ever ever.
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Have you read any of the above data? NOBODY is saying that it LEGITIMIZES it. However, it DOES INCREASE THE RISK. Just like being drunk increases the chance of using unsafe sex, of communicating or acquiring an STD, of unwanted pregnancy, or death, or being sexually assaulted. Both girls and boys need to be educated about this problem as well as the problem of binge drinking in this country.
Yes, these callous morons who posted videos is an ADDITIONAL problem in this country. It's not uncommon, here, for people to first whip out a camera and take pictures instead of coming to the aid of any kind of victim. But, drunk teens are far less likely to use good judgment in most situation; they can't help it. Their judgment is already questionable; add binge drinking and they're about as intelligent as my pen holder.
We are CREATING this culture and we need to stop it.
Last edited by allegro; 03-18-2013 at 03:20 PM.
Throbbing Member
I don't disagree with your main point, allegro, but making a conversation about rape apologists into one where we're saying young women should be taught not to drink will pretty much always shift the blame from the rapist to alcohol, and isn't that part of rape culture in itself? Again, I don't disagree that teens shouldn't be drinking and also that we have a very destructive culture surrounding alcohol, but it seems to miss the point.
I just ran into this on the net:
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The above-linked Time Magazine article includes the following:
Although the CDC report does not speculate why women are binge drinking, Dr. David Jernigan, director of the Center on Alcohol Marketing and Youth, says that female-friendly alcohol-marketing strategies that emerged 10 years ago — including flavored vodkas, alcopops, Smirnoff Ice, Barcardi Silver and Mike’s Hard Lemonade — may be playing a role.
“All of these were clearly oriented to women. The data showed these products were most popular among females of every age group and were most popular among young drinkers. Those of us involved in alcohol prevention called alcopops ‘beer with training wheels,’” says Jernigan. “Women traditionally drank less than men — and still do — but there has been a very intentional effort to increase it, and this has started exposing young women to products and marketing at high rates. The numbers are not surprising to us and are of great concern.” Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2013/01/1...#ixzz2NvRGNmTh
See photographer Amanda Berg's Keg Stand Queens award-winning photography project.
A rise in the number of women who binge drink has been showing up all over America and in particular on college campuses.
This trend is especially relevant in light of the Convergence Hypothesis, a theory popularized in the '80s and '90s that speculated the alcohol consumption of undergraduate women would converge with that of their male counterparts. As women began to take on more stereotypically male roles, in the workplace, athletic arena and elsewhere, this theory posited they would make an effort to drink more like men. Standardizing drinking norms across gender boundaries can be seen as an attempt to standardize gender norms in general.
However, equal drinking does not necessarily correlate to equality. Compared to men, a woman’s body is more easily inebriated by alcohol. Having less body water then men, females achieve a higher blood alcohol level after consuming the same amounts. This leads to higher rates of the negative side effects associated with drinking (i.e. injuries, alcohol poisoning and non-consensual sexual activities). As Dr. Duncan Clark of the Pittsburgh Adolescent Alcohol Research Center described, the homogeneous use of alcohol between sexes presents a “perverse kind of equality.”
My project will focus on the cultural dialect surrounding this “perverse equality.” From anecdotal experience the language used by female binge drinkers themselves may be the most dangerous aspect of this trend. I know first hand how language and “group think” can change the meaning of an action. After a night of excessive drinking sexual assault can be redefined as a “hook up.” The loss of memory due to inebriation can proudly be termed “blacking out.” Words like “apparently” preface the stories told of the prior night. With this, women abdicate responsibility and give themselves permission to repeat the same behavior.
By using convoluted language female binge drinkers obscure the potential consequences of their actions. Robyn Warshaw demonstrates in her book "I Never Called it Rape" that out of the 25% of women in college who are victims of rape only 5% report the incident. Likewise, many students have described being too intoxicated to know if they consented to having sex.
In October 2009, the first semester of my junior year in college, I decided to bring my camera to a “Halloween party.” With the permission of the women and men at the party I recorded the scene. In distancing myself from the praters, I viewed the environment with a more objective perspective. It allowed me to recognize the complex relationship women undergraduates have with alcohol. By binge drinking, under their own volition women appear to be putting themselves in positions of higher risk. Rather than promoting equality, women who subjugate themselves to the dangerous drinking practices of their male counterparts are actually inviting in-equality.
By continuing this project I intend to explore the repercussions women who transgress gender boundaries face by going shot for shot, competing at the beer pong table and doing keg stands with men. I am determined to document the moments female binge drinkers choose to discard or painfully reinterpret through language. Through the stories of a variety of women from a cross-section of schools I hope to shed light on a culture so universal among my peers it is often disregarded and misunderstood. I will combine audio, natural sound and interviews, with the images to provide a comparison between the language used while one is enamored within the party culture and while one is independently reflecting. I ultimately aim to produce a body of work that will inspire female binge drinkers to confront a more objective image of themselves and begin to communicate their experiences to others.
Last edited by allegro; 03-20-2013 at 03:43 AM.
Stubby Member
Annnnd Fox News goes ahead and airs the 16 year old victim's name. Amazing!!
Allegro, here's the problem I see in your reasoning. You tell a girl NOT to get drunk at parties. You tell her it's risky and irresponsible to get drunk. You tell her if she gets drunk, she's increasing her odds of getting raped. But the the girl goes out, gets drunk and gets raped. You gave her all this advice about how SHE can diminish HER chances of being raped and she did it anyway. So you see, by this reasoning, it's partly the girl's fault for not doing everything in her power to diminish her chances of being raped. And that's kinda disgusting, at least in my view.
Rape isn't like some meteorological phenomena that comes along and it's your fucking fault for not staying indoors. It's embedded in a culture, and THAT is what needs to change, men not raping, not girls staying sober at parties.
This is also an interesting read: http://prospect.org/article/toxic-ma...occyw.facebook
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It's not "my" reasoning. It's been an increasing battle cry of feminists for years. See the above-referenced photo essay BY A COLLEGE FEMALE. "From anecdotal experience the language used by female binge drinkers themselves may be the most dangerous aspect of this trend. I know first hand how language and “group think” can change the meaning of an action. After a night of excessive drinking sexual assault can be redefined as a “hook up.” The loss of memory due to inebriation can proudly be termed “blacking out.” Words like “apparently” preface the stories told of the prior night. With this, women abdicate responsibility and give themselves permission to repeat the same behavior."
If that girl went out and got drunk and drove a car and killed a family of 5, is she not at least partly responsible for that? We avoid discussing the female taking control and then we're all too willing to relinquish her control. Be very careful with that. You're going backward, not forward.
They are not mutually exclusive; they both need to change. The media and marketing and culture has encouraged risky behavior and dangerous activity and consequences by encouraging binge drinking among girls and young women. Marketing and advertising and culture has told young women that getting shitfaced and compromising your choice and safety is "okay" and takes you off the hook for any bad choices you make or for doing things you don't want to do. This isn't good for women; it sets us backward hundreds of years. This isn't a single glass of wine, here; this isn't taking away a woman's right to drink; we're talking women and girls getting so shitfaced that they don't REMEMBER if they had sex. It's girls and young women being socially pressured to do things they don't want to do, or to be in unwanted situations, and using binge drinking as a way to handle it or to be "accepted."
Remember, the reason why these boys were determined by a judge as being responsible for this crime is because the female victim was so drunk, it was impossible for her to have had consented to ANYTHING let alone sexual activity. The only evidence in her favor (since the boys used fingers to rape her and did not leave any physical evidence, e.g. sperm or DNA) is all those videos and photos showing the girl as quite obviously UNCONSCIOUS and thereby not able to provide consent to the activities shown in the videos and photos.
The parents of these boys might have told them that "not being able to say no is the same as no" but all those idiots at the party - GIRLS INCLUDED - belong to a culture that seems to indicate that if you're THAT drunk, you are sending a message that you don't care or not you're not responsible for what happens to you (thereby relinquishing your control). Of course, this is too harsh for us adults to accept. That's crazy. But, that's the way these kids think. And, that needs to change. But, we also need these girls to take back their control.
Last edited by allegro; 03-18-2013 at 06:34 PM.
Bent Member
If you engage in risky behavior, there may be consequences. That's just part of life. And the consequences can be horrible or wonderful... that's why we engage in risky behavior.
In your hypothetical, you can't absolve the girl of any ownership of the consequences of her behavior. You also can't absolve a rapist of any guilt just because the victim has some ownership in the situation. There is no mutual exclusivity at play.
It's just so difficult because continually women aren't believed, are blamed, are shamed, are attacked for "ruining lives"... so any suggestion that we acknowledge the existence of personal responsibility can reflexively feel like just more of the same.
There is nothing wrong with suggesting that women, young or old, be careful while drinking in social situations. Just like there's nothing wrong with telling someone not to walk around alone late at night. It's one thing you can do to (hopefully) improve your chances of not becoming a victim. Frankly, if it gets to the point where we can't give women and girls such common-sense advice, we're further victimizing them.
Edit: Damn, it took me a while to write this. Just saw your post, allegro.
Last edited by jessamineny; 03-18-2013 at 05:23 PM.
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Right on, sister!!!
Active Member
It's sad that we have to teach women how to defend themselves from rapists, but the reality of life is that we do. Yes, it should be stopped, until it is, women need to know how to defend themselves. Part of defending themselves is not letting themselves get into bad situations.
I have a daughter, and there is a reason why she's been taking Karate for the part 4 years and will continue to do so until she earns her black belt. I don't want her to become a victim, and I can't change the rest of the world, so I have to prepare her to defend herself from it.
Bored
Saying that this young woman owed it to herself to keep herself away from a dangerous situation will never mean that she deserved to be raped. Teaching our kids, boy or girls (because boys do get raped too, by the way) to be safe is only good old common sense.
It's doesn't mean that nothing bad will never happen to them unfortunately but it will improve their chances to stay safe.
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By pressing charges, this brave girl is standing up as a role model for change in teen drinking culture and the dangers of being vulnerable because of drinking, as well as for boys and what they should NOT do when somebody is drunk. Never mind those morons standing around taking pics and posting them; I hope they all get sentenced, too, so that it sends a clear message of what can happen if you do that dumb shit. Standing around posting pics of the crime to Facebook when you could have some compassion and common sense and call a parent or the police is unacceptable and punishable behavior.
Last edited by allegro; 03-18-2013 at 10:04 PM.
BACKROLLS?!
I started drinking when I was 15/16 and even then I'm pretty sure I knew not to rape people.
Ah well, they'll learn a whole new perspective about rape in a week or so.
Active Member
Why is there always a need to distill problems into a single root cause with a single fix? Life is more complicated than that. How about everyone just takes responsibility for their own actions. End of story. These kids didn't do one single thing wrong, the did a bunch of things wrong. They did a bunch of immoral shit. I'm not a fan of punishing people for victimless crimes (ex: the simple act of drinking) but they need to pay the consequences for everything that created a victim. Make an example of them and hopefully it will make dumbshit kids think "hey, that could be me, maybe I should think about my actions a bit"
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