Likes: 
Faceplams: I have said it before. The answer is, “I’m Looking Forward To Joining You, Finally.” It’s a boring meandering song that feels like it never got finished. It’s got percussion...and not much else.
Trollhunter
I have said it before. The answer is, “I’m Looking Forward To Joining You, Finally.” It’s a boring meandering song that feels like it never got finished. It’s got percussion...and not much else.
Last edited by Swykk; 03-08-2018 at 07:44 AM.
Throbbing Member
Originally Posted by Swykk
Anyway, I was blown away by the teasers and hype for Year Zero, and I think I was trying to like it more than I did. It was a little too loaded and homogeneous for me. Some beautiful songs and ideas, though. Also, did this thread turn into controversial NIN opinions?
Active Member
You can't listen to it on your drive to work, ergo it was mixed wrong? I call some serious bullshit on that.
Active Member
No, it is mixed wrong because it is extremely quiet. Me not wanting to put it on my music player device is a result of that and not vice versa.
Trollhunter
That’s adorably funny coming from a person that didn’t get/love YZ but cool. Keep being you, I guess?
Anyway, I was blown away by the teasers and hype for Year Zero, and I think I was trying to like it more than I did. It was a little too loaded and homogeneous for me. Some beautiful songs and ideas, though. Also, did this thread turn into controversial NIN opinions?
grrr. woof.
i don't listen to nin much anymore. i've bought and played every record like the rest of us. what strikes me as odd is that i still know every lyric to every song, even albums i have only played a few times, like hm and yz. very weird.
someone mentioned "i'm looking forward to joining you, finally" in this thread, a song i usually slept through or skipped. just listened to it and, yep, every single lyric is still embedded in my mind despite the fact that a) it's almost 20 years old and b) it's not a song i've heard more than a few times.
Last edited by kel; 03-08-2018 at 02:43 PM.
Stubby Member
I've just realised that the sample of the beginning of Closer (that can be noticed specially in the live versions) is also playing during the quiet part in the middle of Mr Self Destruct (it can be heard specially just before the heavy parte comes back).
Throbbing Member
Well, I loved it when it came out, I just don't *love* it now meaning I don't return to it frequently. And I will
Active Member
I've listened to that song through car speakers, professional audio speakers, my own home speakers, and through a decent pair of headphones, and I've never had trouble hearing anything. I should also mention that my hearing is not the greatest. Either you're listening to the song through laptop speakers, or your hearing is for shit. Yeah, it's a quiet song, but there's nothing wrong with the mix on it.
she/her/hers
yeah, there's a difference between something being intentionally mixed quiet (see steven wilson's solo albums that have very quiet sections that are intentionally mixed that way so that there are extreme dynamics) and something being mixed poorly.
Active Member
It won't come as a shocker, but I listened to every other slow songs from NIN, and I never once had this problem with those tracks. AATCHB and ILFTMYF could be mentioned, but both of those songs are building up to something, so the quiet parts are not annoying. In LITS? Trent just whispers through the entire song. If that's good mix for you, then I am happy that every other slow tempo NIN songs were mixed in a different way.
I just hope 100 years from now The Slip will be regarded as the best NIN production of all time, and we will have come full circle with how literature is being taught in schools.
This is what I opened with: I am aware that they deliberately mixed it in a shitty way, and that it wasn't a mistake. But the older The Slip gets, the more annoying this rising sentiment will become, that the production of TS can'T be criticized, because everything that sounds funky is deliberately bad. Making a record hastily should not grant protection for the obvious flaws such a recording method produces.
Last edited by Volband; 03-09-2018 at 05:35 AM.
Down, but not out.
But they are still in fact, good. Very good.
she/her/hers
no one is saying it has the best production value, but that it's not shitty; you simply don't like it, and you're allowed to have that opinion. but don't conflate you not liking something with it being intentionally "shitty"
Active Member
Okay, calm down, Bill.
I never said it's above criticism, but if you're going to criticize it, you're going to have to come up with a better argument than "it sounds too quiet to me when I'm driving in my car".This is what I opened with: I am aware that they deliberately mixed it in a shitty way, and that it wasn't a mistake. But the older The Slip gets, the more annoying this rising sentiment will become, that the production of TS can'T be criticized, because everything that sounds funky is deliberately bad. Making a record hastily should not grant protection for the obvious flaws such a recording method produces.
Throbbing Member
Screw everything and everyone, The Slip kicks ass. I don't get the complaints about production, it's meant to be messy and dirty. It accomplishes that amazingly.
Stubby Member
I don't care about what the intention was, but to me the vocals are a little quiet on LITS. It is fine for some occasions, like when I listen to it alone or on headphones for example but it seems a bit mumbly if there is anybody else there at the time and we are having a conversation. I was driving the kids to school the other morning and I had The Slip on in the car and the only time I had to turn it up was for LITS, at which point the instrumentation (piano) seemed overpowering while the vocals were just loud enough to be clear.
So while writing this it struck me... maybe the intention is for it to be best enjoyed alone.. I don't know but the vocals are certainly low in the mix, intentional or not. I have to think that with the experience of TR it must be intentional even if I don't really understand the intention.
Edit: Just wanted to say Intention one more time
Active Member
I'm gettin' reeeal tired of NIN emails titled "(insert international festival here) presale code inside" in my inbox and getting my hopes up for a split second. ^^'
Active Member
You get up in arms because an awfully quiet song was called awfully quiet. I'll try to meet you guys halfway then: the production is good, but the decision to tune the volume so, so, SO down on LITS was shitty and pointless. It is not enjoyable to listen to during a daily commute*, and what's worse, the song wouldn't lose any value if it would have a proper volume range.
There is no need to be revisionist and try to imply that everything on TS sounds how it sounds for a reason, when even Trent himself admitted that he is not so sure about that record.
As an experiment, I can see how putting an under tuned track on a raw and loud material like TS can be tempting. It sounds very artistic on the drawing board, but the final version was more annoying than awe-inspiring. Which is a pity, because LITS might be one of the most underrated songs in the catalog, but the circumstances turned it into a raw gem, which can only be seen shining when Trent performs it live. But he's not performing it live, because it's not called Hurt. A pity.
*And for the love of God, @BRoswell, don't strawman me with this. Whenever I try to not write a wall of text, my fear of not explaining everything in 5 extra sentences just comes true. LITS is not quiet because it's quiet on the street; it's extremely quiet on its own, which is annoying on its own. Not being able to bring it to myself to my commute is just another personal annoyance of mine on top of that.
Last edited by Volband; 03-09-2018 at 01:59 PM.
Active Member
Sorry, but your argument against how it's mixed basically holds no water, especially when you bring up listening to it in a car. Between road and engine noise, plus various other sounds you encounter while driving, of course it's going to sound too quiet. Using the fact that the album was recorded quickly doesn't support the fact that listening to a quiet song in a noisy environment and then saying that it sounds too quiet to you is really, really dumb.
I'd rather you write a wall of text that properly explains your point of view than dumb it down. It doesn't really matter though, because in this case, the issue lies with you, not the song. If you think it's too quiet, so be it, but to say that it's some sort of error in the mix is just wrong. Honestly, I've rarely even heard of anyone else complaining about how it sounds, and the people who did talk about it were idiotic fans who skip it because they only want the songs that "RAWK HAAARD!!!".
Last edited by BRoswell; 03-09-2018 at 02:12 PM.
she/her/hers
thanks, NIN mailing list, i needed that today :}THIS EMAIL WAS SENT TO YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE GOOD TASTE, YOU'RE AHEAD OF THE CURVE, YOU LOOK GREAT TODAY AND YOU SUBSCRIBED TO OUR EMAIL LIST
Active Member
It’s in her kissssss . . .
Hairy Member
I also think that basing a quiet song mix's quality around how it sounds in a noisy enviroment is a bit unjustified. "If it sounds good in the car, it's good" is a recurring trope among sound engineers, but I thought it was obvious not every song is meant to be heard that way, and LITS is of course supposed to be REALLY quiet. There are many other wonderful masterpieces that are hardly audible at the noisiest places.
bastard from blue city
Yeah, I'm sure it's quite lackluster waiting for The Mark Has Been Made to finally move out of endless silence into Please when you're driving!
God is an American
Hate to differ with you, but it isn't. Someone recently determined that the loop in "Closer" was a sped-up sample lifted from a Roxy Music song, and the faint echoey things going round and round in the middle of "Mr. Self Destruct" are just treated guitars. Check out the 5.1 surround mix (or various instrumental versions on YouTube )... you can hear them more clearly.
Last edited by botley; 03-11-2018 at 10:51 AM.
Stubby Member
I made a video to compliment that thread and then never posted it...
Throbbing Member
Case in point:
Almost entire first minute of "And All That Could Have Been"
The middle section of title track "With_Teeth"
The middle section of "Various Methods Of Escape"
The middle section/bridge section of "In Two", its opening also counts.
Pinion's beginning can be heard very hardly in noisy places.
Pretty much entirety of "Another Version Of The Truth" especially towards its end.
A lot of "Find My Way" falls into this.
As does "While I'm Still Here"
Any idea how you miss out with "This Isn't The Place" in crowded places? Albeit it gets louder as it goes on.
"The Way Out Is Through" mostly until its end
Lesson learned? NIN music wasn't made in made to be listened to "on-the-go" or whatever. Lighs In The Sky indeed isn't a good "radio" or "headphone in public" song, but a lot of NIN songs aren't, NIN albums were always at their best when they are paid full attention to, preferably at peace at one's home.
Active Member
Slightly unrelated - This makes me think of Trent's push for vinyl records as a preferred method of listening to music (not just his), but also makes me think of how ridiculous it is to have a tiny, portable device that you put on your records to play them on-the-go. You aren't SUPPOSED to take your records to the park with you. You aren't SUPPOSED to just bring records to a house party. Would you bring your records on the train for your daily commute? No. Because that's dumb. They're meant to be played on a turntable in an appropriate setting. Going to a party with a record-spinning DJ? Sure. Taking records to a buddy's place to listen together? Rad. But if you want on-the-go, then maybe you should listen to something else.
Active Member
I think it's that records weren't meant / made to be played on the go. Today that's not the case, and I believe that's what's wrong with the industry. So many artists are putting out albums with two or three radio friendly singles and then phoning the rest in because people aren't buying the whole album, they're sampling 30 seconds on iTunes and buying (read: renting a license for) the two or three songs with the most little bars next to them. The band sees this and says, "well, if people only give a shit about two or three songs which they're just going to toss on a playlist, we should just make two or three 'good' songs per album", and so on and so forth until every album is 75% filler.
And, while I will sit down with a record and listen to it as intended, I do run around with 18,000+ songs on my iPhone, but I have excellent, noise-cancelling headphones so I can experience the music as opposed to just using it to pass the time on my commute or block out bible shouting maniacs on the subway.
When it comes down to it, everything is a personal choice and while I don't really think there's a "right" and "wrong" way to experience music, I do believe there's an "intended" and "unintended" way to experience music.
Active Member
I tend to listen to albums I enjoy more so than just single tracks. If an album has just has 1 or 2 good songs on it, there's a very good chance that even if I love those 1 or 2 songs, I won't be listening to them anywhere near as much compared to an album that is full of songs I love. Silly for people blaming digital music as the reason some people don't buy or listen to albums anymore like kids didn't borrow friends' records to make mixtapes or record songs off the radio back in the day. It's the same shit that's always been happening. It is nothing new. Artists don't have to cater to the half hearted listener.
I have never chose to listen to the radio ever in my life. So I have never been a singles playlist type of person. I have only listened to the radio if I was in a setting where I'm forced to listen to it, like at work or a waiting room. But on my time, I have never had the need for radio. I'm not into listening to playlists. I don't even have a single playlist on my computer or phone. Whether I'm on the go or at home, I have albums with me. I find the notion that you can't bring an album you love on the go with you and it is not meant to be on the go ridiculous. I got a nice pair of headphones to shut the world out. In my car? My windows are rolled up and the radio is blasting to shut the world out.
I'm sorry, but I don't need an album to be on a record to make me appreciate it or force me to listen to it in full, I can do that just fine on my own, even if it is on CD or hi-res files. I find the notion that only record is the true medium for folks who really sit back and listen to an album just silly. I've been listening to albums since I was a kid. As the the way I listened to music changed from CD to digital, I still listened to albums. Even on my phone, I have full albums that I can enjoy because I don't want to have to keep switching tracks or create a playlist or click the random button. No, I want an album that I can put on, drive, and listen to from front to back. I don't need a specific medium of music to force me to do that, I can easily put on album from front to back on my own whether I'm at home or in my car. I guess I am not a part of the A.D.D. generation that is easily distracted.
And if an artist doesn't have the ability to deliver a good album and only a track or 2, then that artist should give up writing albums. You can't write a good album, then I will be giving that artist less of my attention for one that can. I find blaming the section of "listeners" that don't really care about music and just go around buying the popular songs that make them feel a part of the cool club to soundtrack their Instagram day as a reason an artist should be allowed to phone it in absolutely ridiculous. If an artist cannot write a good full album, then stick with the radio crowd. If you are gonna write an album, then put the effort in to make it good all the way through. If it is good, it will be loved and listened to. Stop caring about the half ass listeners and catering to those whi only buy the single or who only pay $10 per month to stream everyone's music. I do not believe the album is dead. Artists just have to make a goddamn good album. As for the rest of us, go out and actually support the artists you love by buying that album or shirt or concert ticket.
Death to the single.
Last edited by neorev; 03-11-2018 at 02:32 PM.
Throbbing Member
I really like The Hand That Feeds. It was one of the first NIN songs I ever heard (Thanks alot Rock Band) and I honestly can't listen to it much anymore because the fan reaction to it at this point bums me out. I mean, I shouldn't let others dictate my enjoyment of something but it's just something that happens I guess.
Reply With Quote
