Random NIN Thoughts

[mauro995]

Never heard this one before

[botley]

I think Danny Hyde described that version as just "faders up" on the master reel they received from the band, hard stereo panning on certain tracks and centre-panning others. Not so much a remix, or even a demo, as "multi-track stems bounced to stereo without a lot of thought put into it".

[nooneimportant]

I hate that I even think this but whenever I hear Orgy's cover of "Blue Monday" it just reminds me of Nine Inch Nails. It's like the band attended a NIN show and decided "Hey, that's cool, I wanna do that." I mean I enjoy the track but it wouldn't be out of place for NIN either.

[MrSlfDstruct]

I hate that I even think this but whenever I hear Orgy's cover of "Blue Monday" it just reminds me of Nine Inch Nails. It's like the band attended a NIN show and decided "Hey, that's cool, I wanna do that." I mean I enjoy the track but it wouldn't be out of place for NIN either.

The first time I heard it, shortly after it was released, I thought it was a new Manson track.

[eversonpoe]

I hate that I even think this but whenever I hear Orgy's cover of "Blue Monday" it just reminds me of Nine Inch Nails. It's like the band attended a NIN show and decided "Hey, that's cool, I wanna do that." I mean I enjoy the track but it wouldn't be out of place for NIN either.

my wife and i were listening to Candyass in the car yesterday (and singing along...shut up) and i mentioned that i actually like orgy's cover better than new order's original version. the original feels like a straight line (no dynamics, no emotional catharsis), whereas orgy's version is very dynamic and very emotional. and don't get me wrong, i love new order, but that song in particular really benefited from being slightly reworked and made more intense.

i've always felt like orgy is the perfect balance between the good parts of nu-metal that happened around that time, and the more accessible parts of NIN.

[Bachy]

Listened to Memorabilia for the first time in years. Now that's what I'd call an industrial track.

[Harry Seaward]

I think maybe I'm Looking Forward To Joining You, Finally is my favorite song from The Fragile, both lyrically and musically. It took me years to really come around to it, but damn. That effect Trent does where he's whispering in the foreground and faintly screaming the same lyrics simultaneously in the background really fucks with me.

[reznovka]

I like to get my thoughts on whole "Trent VS youtube"-thing out.
I am shattered to hear that Trent is speaking out against it.
Sure, he's an artist and he produce something you should pay for but I guess we all know how much an artist gets for a sold CD or mp3, right?
Artists have to go on tours and produce merch to make enough money to live.
As a fan/part of the hardcore scene I know a lot of bands who are on tour 6 months a year and sleep in their bus or if they're lucky the get a couch at a fans house and even then they can't make enough money to get health insurance in the US. https://www.gofundme.com/aqb5umd8 <---The Ghost Inside needed a crowd funding campaign to get their bills paid.
These bands need youtube and other free media to become as big as NIN and other bands.
Arctic Monkeys were a phenomenon because they never a had record deal and played in big stadiums just because they uploaded their stuff on MySpace (R.I.P.).
A famous asshole and big music producer in Germany gave an interview years ago and was asked what he thinks about torrent and YT and he said that he likes it, because illegal downloads reach way more people than CDs do.
He also said that people should use illegal options and if they like it, they'll visit gigs and stuff and THAT's what brings money to an artist.
I don't want people to stop buying CDs and MP3s but I use youtube too. I found a lot of awesome bands on YT, bought a CD and went to a gig.
If not anybody would've uploaded the record on YT I'd never found it and the artist would have one less fan. (sentence feels wrong, sorry for my english :P)
It's not an artists POV Trent's speaking from it the POV of an business man and that's sad.

[Khrz]

It's not an artists POV Trent's speaking from it the POV of an business man and that's sad.

Why not both ?
The interview is in the context of the streaming service he helped to build.
I have discovered a lot of bands via spotify and google music, and contrary to youtube, those bands actually go money from me merely checking them out. Not a lot, not enough, but that's still better than peanuts.
SO yeah, that's a businessman's POV because Reznor has been actively trying to find business solutions to the huge business problem in the music industry.
The artist, on the other hand, has been trying for 15 years to come up with a solution equally satisfying for the creator and for the fans when it comes to distribution and costs. He funneled a ton of money in various ventures, he tried self-publishing and advertising, he tried various "pay what you want" models...

I'm not trying to sanctify the guy, but really all this ranting feels a bit entitled to me. You can't say the guy hasn't fucking tried at least, he's done more that 90% of the artists out there to come up with a decent business model for a whole industry who'd rather sue your ass and bury its head in the sand.

It's a bit late to complain about his venture in streaming territory now : If he's doing this, it's because none of the earlier solutions felt fair to him.

[Substance242]

This was already posted (by me) in correct topic, but if interested:
"Do you make more money these days through live shows and touring than through album sales? That seems to be where the all money is now."
http://stevenwilsonhq.com/sw/steven-...ming-services/

[bobbie solo]

I'm not trying to sanctify the guy

[Khrz]

Honestly, whatever rocks your boat at this point. There's an inevitable self-awareness when using terms such as "sanctify", "disappointed "," hurt ", and I'm not going to jumps through hoops just to avoid the puns.

[Krazy]

Dont drag me into this.

[cashpiles (closed)]

I just had the thought that a Fall release for new NIN material would feel really good. Fall is such a romantic and bittersweet season. Trent could get all Victorian on our asses. He always talks about setting parameters or constraints on his projects..so for this project he could only use Victorian instruments in conjunction with synths and computers.

[BenAkenobi]

I wasn't following this entire "Trent + Apple = Love" topic lately, excuse me if i ask why there's this talk about Apple Music upcoming launch? I was under impression that it launched a year ago.
Honestly can't wait for the popcorn show how Trent will continue this topic about Youtube. It's practically inevitable that he'll get questions on that every interview from now on. What if he purges nin/htda accounts tomorrow?

[SchwarzerAbt]

I think that there is a difference between fans sharing pirated material and seeing it appear on YouTube.

Fans put it there and break copyright laws. But they do it out of enthusiasm mostly. YouTube (=Google) on the other hand has the tools to detect pirated material and take it down. But they don't do it. They broadcast it and earn money with it via ads.

So I can understand artists that feel angry when a big company like Google is making profits from their art while they don't get anything. And if Trent wants to build a fairerer business model he has to fight this injustice. I have no problem with that.

A website like YouTube is still a good thing. Bit there are ways to improve it so that it becomes fairer for all sides.

[HurtinMinorKey]

I think that there is a difference between fans sharing pirated material and seeing it appear on YouTube.

Fans put it there and break copyright laws. But they do it out of enthusiasm mostly. YouTube (=Google) on the other hand has the tools to detect pirated material and take it down. But they don't do it. They broadcast it and earn money with it via ads.

So I can understand artists that feel angry when a big company like Google is making profits from their art while they don't get anything. And if Trent wants to build a fairerer business model he has to fight this injustice. I have no problem with that.

I wonder how Trent would feel if YouTube banned all NIN related videos and material, even the material Trent uploaded himself.

[Khrz]

Sooooo, "What if Google missed the point entirely" then ?

[niggo]

Not a real spotting, but anyway:

The interviewer (who interviewed Trent a few years ago I believe) says that Trent was addicted to Quake for a long time. @2:30


Edit: Shit, wrong thread. Sorry!

[billpulsipher]

dont know why Trent is so anti google..where else can you find such great clips like this

[Vertigo]

Caught myself 'singing' the thwok-thwok song from Quake in the kitchen today (you know, Track 6, Life). There might be a parallel universe out there in which it was a #1 pop single.

[m15a]

Edit: So, uh, I saw the other thread also had posts about the YouTube thing with some links. So what I posted before is partly irrelevant. But I still want to see some artists with pro-YouTube opinions on the matter. I still don't understand what preventing unlicensed videos from being posted has to do with what the artist chooses to upload themselves.

It's not an artists POV Trent's speaking from it the POV of an business man and that's sad.

What is the artists' POV then? Like, can you reference some quotes where other artists talk about why they do or don't like YouTube's policies? Maybe I missed it since I don't visit the board every day right now, but I haven't seen much actual citation of different the perspective of artists other than Trent on here. If Trent's perspective is so anti-artist while also jumping on the bandwagon of artists that are critical of YouTube, don't you think it seems appropriate to discuss those perspectives expressed from actual sources instead of just speculation?

That said, I don't personally care very much about this topic in itself. I just want to understand the context of what you all are talking about.

[cashpiles (closed)]

if Trent's conflict with DMCA and artist's rights in general doesn't inspire emotionally charged, aggressive new music, I don't know what will.

[HurtinMinorKey]

Edit: So, uh, I saw the other thread also had posts about the YouTube thing with some links. So what I posted before is partly irrelevant. But I still want to see some artists with pro-YouTube opinions on the matter. I still don't understand what preventing unlicensed videos from being posted has to do with what the artist chooses to upload themselves.



What is the artists' POV then? Like, can you reference some quotes where other artists talk about why they do or don't like YouTube's policies? Maybe I missed it since I don't visit the board every day right now, but I haven't seen much actual citation of different the perspective of artists other than Trent on here. If Trent's perspective is so anti-artist while also jumping on the bandwagon of artists that are critical of YouTube, don't you think it seems appropriate to discuss those perspectives expressed from actual sources instead of just speculation?

That said, I don't personally care very much about this topic in itself. I just want to understand the context of what you all are talking about.

Here is the POV that Trent and Co. are failing to perceive/account for.

1) Most artists generally want to get their art in front of as many people as possible.

2.) Fans want access to a wide variety of music/video without having to spend a ton of money buying everything they every listen or watch once.

3.) YouTube provided a solution to (1) and (2) that neither the recording industry, nor Apple, or anyone else was able to come up with.

Now, the solution in (3) was built (to some extent) on the use of copyrighted material; however, I think the unmet needs of (1) and (2) drastically outweigh any "harm" done to the wealthy 0.01% of artists who may have lost some revenue because of it.

begin rant/
I'm sure Trent is convinced that the only reason Hesitation Marks bombed commercially was because all of the people who loved it were secretly pressing replay on YouTube 24-7 instead of buying it, but the reality is that it was probably the worst album he has ever made (by a lot) and he's just not as popular as he used to be (not even close). But I'm sure it's much easier for him to blame YouTube instead of coming to grips with his own decline as a "rock star."
/rant

[Khrz]

Reznor's implication with the project Daisy precedes HM, sooo...

[HurtinMinorKey]

Reznor's implication with the project Daisy precedes HM, sooo...

I'm not following (and I know what Daisy was). So what?

[m15a]

Here is the POV that Trent and Co. are failing to perceive/account for.

1) Most artists generally want to get their art in front of as many people as possible.

2.) Fans want access to a wide variety of music/video without having to spend a ton of money buying everything they every listen or watch once.

3.) YouTube provided a solution to (1) and (2) that neither the recording industry, nor Apple, or anyone else was able to come up with.

Now, the solution in (3) was built (to some extent) on the use of copyrighted material; however, I think the unmet needs of (1) and (2) drastically outweigh any "harm" done to the wealthy 0.01% of artists who may have lost some revenue because of it.

#1 isn't completely true. I've heard a lot of comments from artists that were pretty unhappy to find their music places where they didn't put it. And I'm not talking about just the "wealthy 0.01%" - people I personally know in the very non-commercial world of experimental computer music. They find their stuff on some crappy MP3 ringtone website and they're pretty unhappy about it. They find out their music was put on a compilation CD without their permission and they're pretty unhappy about it. These are real things I've heard people talk about. As far as more commercial artists, there are plenty of stories of bands that were annoyed that their music was used by some politician or whatever. Some are very reluctant to have their music in TV ads. Even though all these things increase the number of people that hear their music. Even I've been annoyed with how it has been presented in concerts to the extent that I wish it wasn't used, and barely anyone listens to what I make.

Most artists do want as their art in front of as many people as possible *if* they are choosing how it is presented. Sites like YouTube, Soundcloud, Vimeo, etc. do provide that while still satisfying point #2. The artist can upload their own stuff for free, YouTube still makes money of those uploads, and I don't think anyone is protesting that process. Maybe sites like YouTube can't exist without the posting of unlicensed material, so the trade off has to be considered (considered *by the artists* - fans don't get a say because they're not contributing anything to this unless the artists do happen to appreciate the exposure, in which case the artist can put a value to that exposure).

But if, like you said, only the "wealthy" 0.01% are losing revenue and all other artists are helped by the exposure, then it should be easy to find artists from the other 99.99% that have come out to speak against this open letter (and that's not the same as saying they value YouTube). I want to see what those artists are saying about their point of view and experiences and why they think the other point of view is wrong.

[cashpiles (closed)]

Here is the POV that Trent and Co. are failing to perceive/account for.

1) Most artists generally want to get their art in front of as many people as possible.

2.) Fans want access to a wide variety of music/video without having to spend a ton of money buying everything they every listen or watch once.

3.) YouTube provided a solution to (1) and (2) that neither the recording industry, nor Apple, or anyone else was able to come up with.

Now, the solution in (3) was built (to some extent) on the use of copyrighted material; however, I think the unmet needs of (1) and (2) drastically outweigh any "harm" done to the wealthy 0.01% of artists who may have lost some revenue because of it.

begin rant/
I'm sure Trent is convinced that the only reason Hesitation Marks bombed commercially was because all of the people who loved it were secretly pressing replay on YouTube 24-7 instead of buying it, but the reality is that it was probably the worst album he has ever made (by a lot) and he's just not as popular as he used to be (not even close). But I'm sure it's much easier for him to blame YouTube instead of coming to grips with his own decline as a "rock star."
/rant

true though Trent wanting to make more money out of his older releases is probably also part of it.

[ChipRock]

So today, of all days, I'd be really really frickin' grateful for a surprise NIN release. (from England)

[blassster]

I'd be pleased if David Fincher and Rooney Mara were involved in the next video.