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Thread: Random NIN Thoughts

  1. #11641
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    Quote Originally Posted by piggy View Post
    Agreed. There will most likely be a "Deviations 2" of TF and hopefully it will be the 5.1 mix.

    Now, speaking of that Bob Ezrin essay, does anyone have scans or photos of it? I've been wanting to transcribe it for the NIN wiki.
    Found a very large PDF of the essay on reddit: http://www.mediafire.com/file/2b7zme...nd+Nowhere.pdf


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  2. #11642
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    i used to think to meet the man behind the music would be the coolest thing; the cherry on top of the sundae i call my bucket list.
    now i find myself realizing that at that moment in time my brain would def fail me and not one thing coherent and intelligent would come out of my mouth and it would turn into an absolute nightmare...


  3. #11643
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    Random NIN Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Eichalvindore View Post
    i used to think to meet the man behind the music would be the coolest thing; the cherry on top of the sundae i call my bucket list.
    now i find myself realizing that at that moment in time my brain would def fail me and not one thing coherent and intelligent would come out of my mouth and it would turn into an absolute nightmare...

    A couple of college friends got to work with him (or rather, meet him). They worked at the precursors to Apple Music in the Bay Area, where he was brought in as a consultant. I think they got to meet him somewhere around 2008-09? Can't remember. They weren't fans or anything. I was briefly jealous but then realized the same thing you did. I'd probably have fainted. TR had an outsized influence on my life since I didn't really like the role models I got at birth. And what would I say? "I listened to your music thousands of times as a teenager and basically started making hermetic electronic music because of you." He'd run out of the building.
    Last edited by Pbgut; 10-02-2017 at 06:54 AM.

  4. #11644
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    Quote Originally Posted by streetman View Post
    Howard Stern once again offhandedly insults Trent Reznor (at around the 39:10 mark): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QqnDZ4KfaY
    Meh, that's just Howard schtick pretending to be big and important. He knows Trent would never do it, so he acts like a bigshot. It's tongue and cheek.

    Its more annoying when he laments that Trent is cleaned up and doesnt wear cornstarch anymore

  5. #11645
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pbgut View Post
    A couple of college friends got to work with him (or rather, meet him). They worked at the precursors to Apple Music in the Bay Area, where he was brought in as a consultant. I think they got to meet him somewhere around 2008-09? Can't remember. They weren't fans or anything. I was briefly jealous but then realized the same thing you did. I'd probably have fainted. TR had an outsized influence on my life since I didn't really like the role models I got at birth. And what would I say? "I listened to your music thousands of times as a teenager and basically started making hermetic electronic music because of you." He'd run out of the building.
    that last part made me laugh so hard i thought i might piss myself...
    ty for that


  6. #11646
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pbgut View Post
    With pretty much any album recording session, alternate mixes/takes/arrangements are tried out. With the advent of digital recording, it became incredibly easy to tweak things and create alternate versions. That's just standard. We know from the old studio diaries posted online that there were several different arrangements of SD and WITT made in a week or two, and that was just in the last couple months of recording. With TR's obsessive work ethic, and his initial difficulty writing new material, it doesn't surprise me that there were tracks like "Claustrophobia Machine" to get the juices flowing. Nothing new was added. He spent two years working on it, with various segues and intros being cut off and added on for flow. Were the instrumentals mixes made more recently? Probably. But they're just the pre-existing alternate arrangements and mixes that are made for any Pro Tools-era album with the vocals muted. I guess your assumptions are coming from not understanding how he works and how many alternate arrangements he tried but - they're not gonna record an acoustic guitar part for The Wretched (which also shows up on The Wretched remix from 2000, so - it's from that era) 18 years later just for the hell of it. It makes no sense. It's a document of the alternate mixes from the original sessions, like any other boxset/reissue, with the vocals muted.

    And again, Bob Ezrin said there were four hours of music. TR said a couple of years ago that he found a large number of demos as well. Also it's pretty unusual to think or worry about the concept of many of these tracks as "finished" when they're all instrumental and several of the vinyl-exclusive tracks are little segue tracks like "Last Heard From." If that's "finished" enough to put out, why would you assume that any work was done on the rest. People are annoyed because the thinking is so irrational - like assuming that Instagram post of the Add Violence CD was fake because "you could just make your own CD with the vinyl artwork" or whatever.

    If reason isn't enough for you, here are the online diaries. One of the first phrases is "endless revisions." http://nineinchnails.tumblr.com/post...blished-on-the

    "Never before heard material from the original Fragile sessions" means that all that stuff existed, probably mixed down to DAT. (There was a bad DAT audio error of the alt. La Mer on Apple Music, and there isn't any reason to use DATs any more.) "Deconstructed" means that they put an entirely new sequence of the album together from outtakes and instrumental mixes of the pre-existing alternate arrangements we know exist.
    The thinking is so irrational? Seriously? You say nothing new was added. That is a fairly unambiguous statement. Should I presume you know all of this information for a fact? Can you say for a fact what condition the original recordings were in or to what extent they were finished? Well done if you can. I have also read those online diaries before and they don't give away very much pertaining to this particular release one way or the other, except to say there were many drafts of many of the songs. Fair enough about the DAT audio error, but that doesn't necessarily say anything about the rest of the extra tracks.

    This is nothing like presuming the AV cd was a fake. There was photographic evidence in that case from a guy who is friends with a forum user. So how is this anything like that? I would appreciate not being lumped in with that particular instance, thanks.

    Have we had any sort of confirmation either way that these tracks were all finished and nothing new whatsoever has been done to them? Or for that matter have we had any confirmation of anything that would support my feelings on it? None that I know of, so unless you have something up your sleeve in that regard, this comes down to a simple difference of opinion. You are entitled to think however you like about it, as am I.

    What I do not appreciate is you trying to say that my opinion is somehow irrational, or being compared to entirely different arguments which have taken place on the forums. I have given perfectly rational explanations for the thoughts I have around the release. I have no problem being proven wrong, if there is any actual proof of anything. Your saying if reason isn't enough just sounds like you are saying it is irrefutable, where there is nothing anywhere to say for sure one way or the other.

    I haven't said anywhere at all that there was definitely anything new added, either. The simple fact here is that I don't truly know the answer and haven't once claimed that I did. I expressed a feeling I get when listening to the thing.

    So peace and love and all that, and unless some new information surfaces around the mixing/sequencing process for Deviations 1, I don't have anything further to add to the discussion.

  7. #11647
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    Quote Originally Posted by quietime View Post
    Who is Josh Wink?

  8. #11648
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    Quote Originally Posted by astfgyl View Post
    The thinking is so irrational? Seriously? You say nothing new was added. That is a fairly unambiguous statement. Should I presume you know all of this information for a fact? Can you say for a fact what condition the original recordings were in or to what extent they were finished? Well done if you can.
    The pdf booklet says "All music is from the original Fragile sessions in New Orleans, 1997-1999." The old studio journals says that there were alternate versions of tracks, many parts that were not used. Bob Ezrin says there was four hours of music. Trent said there were a ton of "demos" - considering the state of the TDS demos, it's not hard to believe there were similar tracks for TF. Some of the tracks on the reissue barely sound like finished songs. Assuming all these people are lying to you, and not being able to extrapolate from this basic information well, if you don't like the "i" word, come up with your own but it makes no sense. It is the least likely explanation to assume, based on all of that evidence (and the basic sentence "All music is from the original Fragile sessions in New Orleans, 1997-1999."), that they made any new music to pass it off as old music for literally no reason.
    Last edited by Pbgut; 10-02-2017 at 08:13 AM.

  9. #11649
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pbgut View Post
    The pdf booklet says "All music is from the original Fragile sessions in New Orleans, 1997-1999." The old studio journals says that there were alternate versions of tracks, many parts that were not used. Bob Ezrin says there was four hours of music. Trent said there were a ton of "demos" - considering the state of the TDS demos, it's not hard to believe there were similar tracks for TF. Some of the tracks on the reissue barely sound like finished songs. Assuming all these people are lying to you, and not being able to extrapolate from this basic information well, if you don't like the "i" word, come up with your own but it makes no sense. It is the least likely explanation to assume, based on all of that evidence (and the basic sentence "All music is from the original Fragile sessions in New Orleans, 1997-1999."), that they made any new music to pass it off as old music for literally no reason.
    Right so, pics or it didn't happen...

    Joking. That pretty much solves that argument. I'll get back in my box.

    I hadn't noticed that on the pdf at all in fairness.

  10. #11650
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    Comparing live shows from 2008 and 2017 and while I miss the heavier parts I'm glad that TR's starting to sound like himself again. In a strange way, he does sound kinda younger now than he did almost 10 years ago. Maybe cause he's successfully hitting the higher notes again. And I guess his voice not being completely fucked helps too.

  11. #11651
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    I thought that Lights In The Sky tour had some amazing loud vocal moments from Trent, it seems like Trent stopped screaming mostly during the Tension tour, which also came with "Hesitation Marks" which featured some of his tamest vocals to date, not meaning to call any of those things bad, I actually enjoyed his vocals in HM.

    But I agree, his vocals in the 2017 performances are amazing, The Wretched took my fucking breath away, those whispers he does sound so amazingly disturbing, best performance I've seen of that song easily.

  12. #11652
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    I could not imagine TR adding additional part to those compositions. I remember an interview with him in regards to remastering PHM where he said there was a temptation to update things like outdated sounding reverb effects but that would needlessly change the spirit of the original recording.

    Has anyone considered the following? There is more material from these sessions that sounds like more completed songs but he didn't want Deviations to be an experience where the focus is taken away from the original songs? I can't see him just dumping a bunch of stuff onto a release like this for the sake of releasing unheard material. Using the Claustrophobia Machine example I think there was intent behind including it as opposed him thinking "what is the least shitty I can pad this release with".... "should I include Claustrophobia Machine or that 10 min outake of Danny playing the didgeridoo?"

  13. #11653
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    Look, I stand corrected about that thought I was having, but Claustrophobia Machine to me is right up there with the very worst of NIN. However, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and TR/AR saw fit to leave it in there so maybe it is just me.

    Actually, now that I think of it, that song sort of proves the point that they probably didn't touch any of it up, because to leave it in that condition while touching other things up would surely be madness.

    Like everybody else here, I would love nothing more than another 6 hours to a week of unreleased TF material. I would prefer to be wrong than right in that regard.

  14. #11654
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    Another random thought, just to deflect things a bit...

    Having given the last couple of days listening to Niggy Tardust, I am really surprised that TR didn't carry forward more of an influence from that than he appears to have. There are some really great ideas, both sonically and musically going on there.

  15. #11655
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    Quote Originally Posted by astfgyl View Post
    Look, I stand corrected about that thought I was having, but Claustrophobia Machine to me is right up there with the very worst of NIN. However, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and TR/AR saw fit to leave it in there so maybe it is just me.

    Actually, now that I think of it, that song sort of proves the point that they probably didn't touch any of it up, because to leave it in that condition while touching other things up would surely be madness.

    Like everybody else here, I would love nothing more than another 6 hours to a week of unreleased TF material. I would prefer to be wrong than right in that regard.
    Claustrophobia Machine reminded me of one quote of Trent's. Allegedly they made a list of artists whose music should act as an influence for what would become the new album, The Fragile. Among other artists I remember him mentioning Atari Teenage Riot, which that song bears a certain resemblance to, I think.

  16. #11656
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    Quote Originally Posted by r_z View Post
    Claustrophobia Machine reminded me of one quote of Trent's. Allegedly they made a list of artists whose music should act as an influence for what would become the new album, The Fragile. Among other artists I remember him mentioning Atari Teenage Riot, which that song bears a certain resemblance to, I think.
    If you mean it is a bad song, then I think it bears a striking similarity to ATR. Just kidding (a bit), I see what you are getting at.

    While we are on the subject of The Fragile, another thought I had (while looking at 31 Ghosts IV live), was that the closest NIN ever got to reaching anything like the heights of TF since it was released was on Ghosts I-IV.

    I am convinced there is the makings of an album in there that could be at least as good or possibly even surpass TF. If only he had given 2 solid years fleshing out those ideas and adding vocals to it...

    Hey, imagine if the next deviations was Ghosts I-IV: Deviations 2, where they basically went the opposite way to Deviations 1, and distilled down the 4 discs to 2 and added vocals. A wide awake wet dream for me right there.

    And lastly (because I am king of the long-winded post) has anybody here had a go of putting together a sort of less meandering version of Ghosts? Something like getting it down to 1 or 2 discs. I'm going to give it a go this evening.

  17. #11657
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    Quote Originally Posted by astfgyl View Post
    has anybody here had a go of putting together a sort of less meandering version of Ghosts? Something like getting it down to 1 or 2 discs. I'm going to give it a go this evening.
    Yeah, I got it down to one disc and tried to trim the fat a little. I even went to the multitracks to re-edit the endings/beginnings of some songs on there that fade into each other. The tracklist goes like this:

    01. 1 Ghosts I
    02. 2 Ghosts I
    03. 6 Ghosts I
    04. 7 Ghosts I
    05. 8 Ghosts I
    06. 14 Ghosts II
    07. 18 Ghosts II
    08. 16 Ghosts II
    09. 21 Ghosts III
    10. 23 Ghosts III
    11. 27 Ghosts III
    12. 28 Ghosts IV
    13. 29 Ghosts IV
    14. 31 Ghosts IV
    15. 32 Ghosts IV
    16. 35 Ghosts IV
    17. 33 Ghosts IV
    18. 34 Ghosts IV

  18. #11658
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    I wonder if somewhere down the line Trentticus will pull a Zimmer/Morriccone/Mansell thing and do a tour or a few shows playing only score material.

  19. #11659
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    Quote Originally Posted by fillow View Post
    I wonder if somewhere down the line Trentticus will pull a Zimmer/Morriccone/Mansell thing and do a tour or a few shows playing only score material.
    I'd expect that to be woven into the Still-style tour Trent discussed at the Chicago Q&A.

  20. #11660
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleiner352 View Post
    I'd expect that to be woven into the Still-style tour Trent discussed at the Chicago Q&A.
    Now I WANT this to happen

  21. #11661
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulerage View Post
    Now I WANT this to happen
    Yes, but at a place I can go to.


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  22. #11662
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    Where's Rob Sheridan?

  23. #11663
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    Quote Originally Posted by snaapz View Post
    Where's Rob Sheridan?
    He's all around us.

  24. #11664
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    Quote Originally Posted by snaapz View Post
    Where's Rob Sheridan?
    Right where he belongs.

  25. #11665
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    He's gone, he's gone, he's gone away

  26. #11666
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    Quote Originally Posted by r_z View Post
    Yeah, I got it down to one disc and tried to trim the fat a little. I even went to the multitracks to re-edit the endings/beginnings of some songs on there that fade into each other. The tracklist goes like this:

    01. 1 Ghosts I
    02. 2 Ghosts I
    03. 6 Ghosts I
    04. 7 Ghosts I
    05. 8 Ghosts I
    06. 14 Ghosts II
    07. 18 Ghosts II
    08. 16 Ghosts II
    09. 21 Ghosts III
    10. 23 Ghosts III
    11. 27 Ghosts III
    12. 28 Ghosts IV
    13. 29 Ghosts IV
    14. 31 Ghosts IV
    15. 32 Ghosts IV
    16. 35 Ghosts IV
    17. 33 Ghosts IV
    18. 34 Ghosts IV
    I never got around to doing my own yet, I ended up setting my face on fire so that sort of got in the way but I hadn't even thought as far as getting into the multitracks for my comp. I could even extend some of the shorter ones that way, but that might be getting a bit too much into making my own thing out of it. I'll probably start with keeping it to a single disc worth and see how mine matches up to yours.

  27. #11667
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    Not Anymore makes my head start to spin and pound. You know which part

  28. #11668
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ribbitman View Post
    Not Anymore makes my head start to spin and pound. You know which part
    ok, that sounded kinda hot...
    (sorry head in the gutter...)

    d'oh!
    Last edited by muse-lyre candy; 10-05-2017 at 10:20 PM.

  29. #11669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eichalvindore View Post
    ok, that sounded kinda hot...
    (sorry head in the gutter...)

    d'oh!
    rereading that… prob could have worded it better lol

  30. #11670
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    Watching the 2017/07/30 pro-shot from @ninlive .

    Holy. Shit.

    How did they become so dangerous again? Gave Up's outro nearly vaporized me.

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