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Thread: Random NIN Thoughts

  1. #7471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    I guess I thought I pretty much said that already?

    Yeah, I guess "inefficacy/uselessness" was MAYBE a bit too vague...but we ARE talking about the same album Reznor promoted by CONSTANTLY second-guessing and doubting his place in the musical climate of '05, right? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but he mentioned about a THOUSAND times how uncertain he was about Mr. Concept Album transitioning successfully into the age of disposable, single-song downloads, etc. Hence, "Big Man with a Gun" becomes "Getting Smaller" and the sprawling, double-album eccentricity of The Fragile becomes the collection of catchy, radio-friendly songs which is With Teeth. I mean, he DID pretty much say that, didn't he?

    And are we just overlooking the fact that this very same statement came preceded by lyrics like "she comes on strong, it makes you hard, you finally found the place where you belong; with teeth" and "I'm trying to fit it all inside, I'm trying to open my mouth wide, I'm trying not to choke inside, I am a big boy and I will swallow it all, swallow it all, swallow it all, swallow it all"...?!?

    LOL. I mean, just sayin'!!!

    It seemed clear enough to me that he was relating his potential irrelevance to the current musical scene in terms of his vitality and/or mpotence, which is basically a motif spanning his entire career.Curious to hear wtf @eversonpoe was thinking facepalming one statement and liking another saying basically the same thing, btw.

    No biggie, though! Just a friendly conversation here.

    you hadn't said that already. you made a little rant that sounded kind of homophobic and ridiculous, which is why i facepalmed it. also, people take facepalming WAY too seriously.
    @GibbonBlack stated that the song seemed to be more about trent's celebrity status and i agreed with that...why is that confusing?

  2. #7472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    ...
    Jesus, the companion piece for the e.p. named after his e.d. is even called FIXED, people!
    ...
    So, does "fixed" mean permanent/staying or cured/gone?

  3. #7473
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenAkenobi View Post
    So, does "fixed" mean permanent/staying or cured/gone?
    I've always thought it was a tongue in cheek title. Broken is, well... broken, and Fixed sounds even more broken with all the fucked up remixes, though it was title Fixed. That's how I've always thought about it in my mind anyway.

  4. #7474
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    @Ryan - I've also thought about that too, especially when considering it as a play on words of the following idiom: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

    As it's either simply unnecessary to fix something that still works, or that trying to fix something can sometimes actually increase one's problems and even inflict more damage than what already broke it in the first place. I've always enjoyed having that in mind, especially when listening to Fixed right after Broken.
    Last edited by Halo Infinity; 09-05-2015 at 06:53 AM.

  5. #7475
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    I always thought it more or less meant "on drugs", literally or metaphorically.

  6. #7476
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    Considering the lyrics suggesting that even "hope and vaseline" couldn't fix his "broken machine, I've always concluded that naming the companion piece Fixed was a deliberate double entendre referencing both repair work and, more cleverly, castration.

  7. #7477
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    Personally, I think "Fixed" was just chosen because it's a word associated with "Broken." I think the other meanings of fixed might have been intentional, but more in a humorous pun sort of way.

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    I was actually quite passive about The Line Begins To Blur for a while, but when I seen the BYIT performance,
    especially with the background effect of the cascade coming closer down behind them,
    I just fucking loved the song after that!
    (I bought the dvd in Manchester on its release 27/2/07 after seeing them in the Apollo the night before )

  9. #7479
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    Quote Originally Posted by m15a View Post
    Personally, I think "Fixed" was just chosen because it's a word associated with "Broken." I think the other meanings of fixed might have been intentional, but more in a humorous pun sort of way.
    I definitely agree, in most senses, it's actually fucked, the record I mean

  10. #7480
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    I believe Sunspots is the best song from With Teeth.

  11. #7481
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    I've become obsessed with the song playing after Reptile in this radio show by Trent, Peter Murphy et al
    https://youtu.be/Elbsomblod4

  12. #7482
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorzelG View Post
    I've become obsessed with the song playing after Reptile in this radio show by Trent, Peter Murphy et al
    https://youtu.be/Elbsomblod4
    That's "Haunted When the Minutes Drag" by Love And Rockets

  13. #7483
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    Listening to my iPod on shuffle. Randy Newman's cover of Peter Gabriel's "Big Time" seemed to fit perfectly after "Perfect Drug" for some reason.

  14. #7484
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    I was just thinking about the words Left and Right being used on The Fragile for quite some time again. It made me think about how the Left had mentions of leaving or at the very least the desire to escape or actual things being put away with what was left and/or all that's left, while the Right had mentions of trying to set things right and fix them, and trying to fight for a certain right, even mentally and emotionally, or just to be right as a means to prove something, but eventually failing and setting himself up for more suffering and destruction due to being the fragile or how it sometimes seems like nothing is ever got enough whenever it comes to getting it right. Perhaps it can also be about how his best efforts were also useless at the time. And speaking of the left again, I can see how that word can also apply to loss as well, as things have to be away, taken away or go away to constitute a loss.

    This isn't to say that neither are only left to one CD or the other, as both themes are present on both CDs, nor am I trying suggest that these were Trent's actual intentions, but it certainly made me speculate a bit, as I've done with his other releases. And with that particular thought, some lyrics stood out far more than others for me to follow it for the other definitions of the words Left and Right. Anyway, it really just randomly occurred to me though. And if anything, this random thought actually increased my fascination and admiration of The Fragile. That is, aside form my right brain and left brain idea, or how Left and Right are the two sides of Trent Reznor that were broken and split in two as mentioned in Now I'm Nothing and In Two.

    And perhaps in some ways, the Left could be about witnessing the destruction until he sees what little is left of him, and the Right is about him trying to pick up the pieces only to witness further destruction in spite of his efforts to make it right, hence leaving him even more discouraged, broken and hopeless. This probably would've also never occurred to me if he simply named the CDs Disc 1 and Disc 2 though, so it still makes me wonder if he had that in mind too.

    Left

    Somewhat Damaged - Made the choice to go away. / Lost my faith in everything. / This machine is obsolete. / Would always say we'll make it through, then my head fell apart, and where were you? How could I ever think it's funny how everything you swore would never change is different now, like you said, you and me make it through didn't quite, fell apart. Where the fuck were you?

    The Day The World Went Away - The day the whole world went away.

    The Wretched - The far aways. / You're finally free.

    We're In This Together - Well they've got to make it go away. Well they've got to make it disappear.

    The Fragile - We'll find a perfect place to go where we can run and hide. We'll build a wall and keep them on the other side.

    Even Deeper - Everything that matters is gone. All the hands of hope have withdrawn.

    No, You Don't - Teeth in the necks of everyone you know. You can keep on sucking until the blood won't flow. When it starts to hurt it only helps it grow. Taking all you need, but not this time, no you don't.

    La Mer - For I am going home.

    The Great Below - Makes me disappear.

    Right

    The Way Out Is Through - All I've undergone, I will keep on.

    Into The Void - Tried to save a place from the cuts and the scratches. Tried to overcome the complications and the catches. Nothing ever grows and the sun doesn't shine all day. Tried to save myself but myself keeps slipping away.

    Where Is Everybody? - Pleading and needing and bleeding and breeding and feeding, exceeding. / Trying and lying, defying, denying, crying and dying. / Maybe I wish I could try.

    Please - Now everything is clear. I erase the fear. / Never be enough to fill me up.

    Starfuckers, Inc. - Now I belong. I'm one of the chosen ones. Now I belong. I'm one of the beautiful ones.

    I'm Looking Forward To Joining You, Finally - I've done all I can do.

    The Big Come Down - There is a game I play. Try to make myself okay. Try so hard to make the pieces all fit. Smash it apart just for the fuck of it. / Try to get back to where I'm from.

    Underneath It All - After all I've tried.

    @BenAkenobi - And now, after actually taking the time to write all of this, it's probably another reason why you've said this all along in the Hesitation Marks thread.

    http://www.echoingthesound.org/commu...238#post247238

    I still find it to be very flattering though, and well, thank you, as I was just reminded about that post of yours yet again.
    Last edited by Halo Infinity; 09-09-2015 at 08:10 AM.

  15. #7485
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    Yeah, the way that the Left disc ends with the "La Mer" and "The Great Below" pairing is like suicidal and wishing for grim death, while the Right side begins with "The Way Out Is Through" is evidence that he stopped himself from ending it and is clawing his way back up.

    It's interesting that you bring that up right now, because just the other day I was realizing how the lyrics to "La Mer" are just dark as fuck (reappraised in context of how TR went on to state that he wrote it while in a suicidal headspace) and how "The Way Out Is Through" has such a hopeful couplet in "all I've undergone, I will keep on" as a stark contrast to that.

  16. #7486
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    piggy by nine inch nails is the greatest jazz song ever written

  17. #7487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfkiller View Post
    piggy by nine inch nails is the greatest jazz song ever written
    I don't like piggy as much on the album but it's so much better live. The lyrics suddenly seemed to make sense when someone said it was about Richard Patrick leaving the band, there seems more to that feud than has ever been let on to the press

  18. #7488
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    Whatever nerd.
    Eraser "remastered" high was giving me seizures. I'm convinced parts of this "remastered" the downward spiral are alternate takes.

  19. #7489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kris View Post
    I was just thinking about the words Left and Right being used on The Fragile for quite some time again...
    Me too, but in another context.
    We know that there's a lot going on between Left and Right, however... what if 12 tracks that are on 1st disk were released on their own?
    How would we treat it today?
    halo fourteen: The Fragile (1999): CD we know as Left but the rest all the same - cover, title, only a thinner booklet.
    (same singles may have remained but no cross-reference to 2nd CD: TDTWWA+TDTWWA (quiet) and WITT+TPD)
    halo sixteen: Into the void (minus WITT and TPD plus a remix)
    halo severteen: The Big Comedown (?) (2000 or 2001): what we now know as Right CD (incl. TMH) under different cover
    halo eighteen: Starfuckers, Inc. (video version + a remix)
    halo nineteen: TFA (2001 or 2002, EP because many remixes went to previously dropped singles)
    halo twenty: Live/Still
    ...
    It's not hard to guess that With Teeth would probably be considered a bigger success compared to each of those hypothetical half-double albums

  20. #7490
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    What frame of mind was trent in when he wrote "big man with a gun?"
    it's the only nin song that kind of bothers me.

    I've heard it said that it was supposed to be a "parody of hip hop" but i don't see that.
    Then there's the whole "it's a story about a character" thing, but i've never bought that either. On TDS and TF, trent is obviously the "character."

  21. #7491
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    I think it's a consequence of hanging out with Manson

  22. #7492
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    What frame of mind was trent in when he wrote "big man with a gun?"
    it's the only nin song that kind of bothers me.

    I've heard it said that it was supposed to be a "parody of hip hop" but i don't see that.
    Then there's the whole "it's a story about a character" thing, but i've never bought that either. On TDS and TF, trent is obviously the "character."
    If Trent is the character of TDS, then he's a rapist and dead.


    He obviously heavily inspired the album from himself, but it's still a story, especially with songs like Hurt, Big Man With A Gun and The Downward Spiral, which tell events which haven't happened to Trent. I think Big Man was his insertion of story and also a very creepy catharsis towards someone or some thing. I also dislike it, probably for the same reasons, and I never once bought the parody of hip hop bullshit, especially considering the friends he keeps.

  23. #7493
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    I like it, in the context of TDS it's the inevitable explosion of lust, violence and hatred the character has been nursing during the whole first segment, all expressed at once.

    It could probably have been expressed more cleverly or subtly, but as elaborate as it is TDS isn't a "clever" record, nor a subtle one. It's extremely good at bludgeoning and does it expertly, but it's still expressing itself by giving heads, getting butts, and various other headbuttings.
    Plus, the vulgarity and immorality of BMWAG is kind of the whole point, in my opinion...

    @elevenism : You never write in a vacuum, and in the case of Reznor we all know most of his material is inspired by himself, but I think that TDS was written by fishing in his own dark parts. Think of the shit that pops in your mind sometimes, random spontaneous bouts of ephemeral yet boiling hatred, the fucked up perverted shit that bubbles up to your conscious mind in the middle of the day.
    "I wonder what would happen if I pushed that kid in front of the bus. What if I just punched your face off you fucking hag ? How would Sheila react if I fucked her mother ?"
    I think Big Man... is just that, a pure flow of lust and fury released all at once. It's not Reznor any more than those nasty thoughts are you. But they're there, and in the context of TDS they've been brewing for eight tracks before they just explode in a messy rage.
    Last edited by Khrz; 09-09-2015 at 12:31 PM.

  24. #7494
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    What frame of mind was trent in when he wrote "big man with a gun?"
    it's the only nin song that kind of bothers me.

    I've heard it said that it was supposed to be a "parody of hip hop" but i don't see that.
    Then there's the whole "it's a story about a character" thing, but i've never bought that either. On TDS and TF, trent is obviously the "character."
    Aside from the other points that were already mentioned, I have also wondered if it was also set up to look like an intentional reference or response to Me And A Gun by Tori Amos on her album Little Earthquakes. What you've said reminded me of their conspiracy, as it was called. I'm not sure if it's still going on, but it seemed to be very much alive from the early 1990s to the mid 2000s.

    @Charmingly Miserable @RhettButler - I'd definitely be interested in what either of you might have to say about it as well.

    On the other hand, I could also still see that as a satirical parody of hip hop, as well as a parody of people acting like tough guy rappers and gangsters, but that's just me. I'd even go out on a limb and venture to say that if it was intended to be a parody of such on any kind of level, it's probably somewhat akin to say, 50 Cent's Wanksta in some ways. Aside from that, I don't know what else to say, because I still found what Trent said about Big Man With A Gun to be very believable.

    Quote Originally Posted by BenAkenobi View Post
    I think it's a consequence of hanging out with Manson
    I could actually see that in some ways, even though that sort of thing was already visually accomplished on the Broken movie. I also thought that Big Man With A Gun could've also inspired the way the final version of Get Your Gunn (At least in a minor way.) came to be, even though most of the inspiration from The Downward Spiral ended up on Smells Like Children and Antichrist Superstar. But yes, in that era, I wouldn't put it past Nine Inch Nails and Marilyn Manson influencing and inspiring each other with ideas being bounced around from both camps as a result of their collaboration and friendship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khrz View Post
    You never write in a vacuum, and in the case of Reznor we all know most of his material is inspired by himself, but I think that TDS was written by fishing in his own dark parts. Think of the shit that pops in your mind sometimes, random spontaneous bouts of ephemeral yet boiling hatred, the fucked up perverted shit that bubbles up to your conscious mind in the middle of the day.
    "I wonder what would happen if I pushed that kid in front of the bus. What if I just punched your face off you fucking hag ? How would Sheila react if I fucked her mother ?"
    I think Big Man... is just that, a pure flow of lust and fury released all at once. It's not Reznor any more than those nasty thoughts are you. But they're there, and in the context of TDS they've been brewing for eight tracks before they just explode in a messy rage.
    I just loved the way you put that, as this is exactly what I had in mind, not only with Big Man With A Gun, but the entire Broken movie as well. Depending on who you are, if your brain has ever functioned like that whenever you're very angry, it's actually very relatable and understandable. You've also summed it up so much better than I ever could have, which is great, because I had a very hard time trying to describe the Broken movie in that kind of way.

    And not to mention, I can also still see how those types of songs also set the perfect mood for destroying instruments and equipment on stage with or without them messing up. It's also still one of my favorite reasons for watching Closure.

    I also saw Big Man With A Gun as the final explosion before slowing down for A Warm Place and then facing further demise and lows afterwards. I have also read descriptions of The Downward Spiral having some of the songs are of the character trying to get higher and higher in songs like Closer and Ruiner only to go lower and lower in songs like A Warm Place and Eraser as the character gets more vulnerable and suicidal after those bursts of aggression and perceived invincibility and power, with Hurt being the bottom the downward spiral as well as the final blow.
    Last edited by Halo Infinity; 09-09-2015 at 03:48 PM.

  25. #7495
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    Reznor undeniably intended to piss lots of people off (not to mention deliberately antagonize the hypocritical American moralist Christian groups, who would actually protest outside of NIN concerts) by including that song on the album and performing it live. Hard rock music was still the devil incarnate circa 1993-94, and until Manson was blamed for supposedly inciting the Columbine massacre, NIN was taking a lot of that heat in the mass media for apparently corrupting and warping the minds of children. Though it serves its purpose in painting that internal narrative of The Downward Spiral, in a broader context that song was also fuck-you to corporate media sanitization under the banner of moral authoritarianism. This is something Reznor flirted with on each NIN album, up until leaving the corporate structure of Interscope/Vivendi/Universal etc. in 2007, by which time the media landscape had begun to fragment. But it was a different world back when both major American political parties had active proponents advocating for the censorship of popular music.
    Last edited by botley; 09-09-2015 at 01:48 PM.

  26. #7496
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    Tim Cook has One Republic as one of his favourite bands, what? Is Trent happy plugging a product that is a promotional tool for One Republic???

  27. #7497
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    Are you for real ?

  28. #7498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khrz View Post
    Are you for real ?
    Just looking at the twitter feed for the Apple event today and One Republic are the band. Someone just said 'if I find a one republic album on my iPhone tomorrow I'm switching to windows'
    Last edited by WorzelG; 09-09-2015 at 02:32 PM.

  29. #7499
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    No, sorry, the elaborate version of what I meant would be "do you really care ? Why do you care ? Who cares ?"

    Reznor promoted and participated in a product meant to distribute music. As much music as possible. From the largest range of bands as possible, to the maximum amount of consumers possible.
    The CEO of the company that released this product loves a band you hate.

    Honestly, who gives a fuck ? Why in high heavens should Reznor give a fuck ? Why do you ? Why should we ?

  30. #7500
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    It's alright, I'm not that bothered. I'm actually on the free trial although I've turned off auto renewal, streaming music isn't really a priority in our house at the moment.

    Do you really believe they're one of tim cooks favourite bands though? He's just a middle aged man sucking up to what he thinks young people like
    Last edited by WorzelG; 09-09-2015 at 02:48 PM.

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