Likes: 
Faceplams: Yeah, I meant in general. Not Tool specific.Originally Posted by Krazy
Active Member
Yeah, I meant in general. Not Tool specific.
Hairy Member
Yeah I don't disagree with this part, but I don't think the...
...have any impact on album production. I don't think Tool really give too many fucks about them at all.
Active Member
Really? Given that it became a minor brushfire when Maynard criticized those people, I'd say it does.
There were ample reasons for a delay on the album and, yet, for the last 10 years all the band members have done is field questions about the new album. I mean, some of that was secret. But after it became public knowledge it got even worse.
It's ironic that a group of "think for yourself" fans would be so beholden to this band. I mean, particularly when Lateralus's message seems to be: embrace new stuff.
It's like your family asking you when you're having kids for 10 years while you're getting married and divorced twice and you just bought two houses that you're trying to renovate all at the same time. The guys are doing shit and all people can do is ask them about when they're finally having a kid.
Hairy Member
So are you saying that the fans are the major driver in the lack of production?
Or that it is primarily the other, well documented external factors and the fans are just annoying and unjustified in their rabid pestering?
This ^ is what I was suggesting; that the fans seem to play a very minor part in whether or not the band releases new material in amongst all the other stuff the band has dealt with in the last 10 years.
Dis-member
Have no clue why someone would suggest that some fans would be the reason why Tool hasn't put out new material yet. Some of these so called "fans" are a direct result of Tool trying to hold this secretive and cryptic image that they decided to go with- they're bored and look into things to deeply. Every big band has nut jobs who follow them a little too religiously.
Maynard has always come off as an asshole, so it doesn't matter how weird or down-to-earth his fans would be- he'd hate them equally. Adam has seemed to be lazy over recent years. Both would be more than happy to take anyone's money- something that's a sure thing once they do release new stuff... or even "old" new stuff like Opiate and fucking blankets and VIP tickets.
Active Member
Okay, okay. Fans aren't the reason for the delay. But we do know a lot of the reasons.
On the other hand, fans and their obsessiveness kept the questions about a new album coming.
Asshole or not, I legitimately understand Maynard's stated frustration with questions about Tool when he's with A Perfect Circle, Puscifer, or when he's at a wine event.
Tool hasn't kept themselves in the news for 10 years. The media has and so have fans upset at a lack of progress--usually while blaming Maynard. That goes all the way back to APC in '99.
My point isn't that the fans aren't keeping the band from writing a new album. My point is that the fans haven't given the band any real reason to move forward. It's all friction and negative pressure. People don't seem to know that bands DO read message boards and stuff. Hell, Billy Howerdel used to post on APC.net sometimes. So they see the negativity and obsessiveness.
I haven't seen any respect for the band members' personal lives around. Have you? Adam went through a lot almost immediately after 10k Days. Danny has always done his stuff. Justin... Disappeared for a long time. They had the lawsuit. Someone had a life threatening condition. And now that that's all clear people immediately assumed the band would all pow wow and knock out an album in six months. But people are mad at Maynard again for touring with Puscifer. Because for some reason they don't think Maynard can collaborate with the other guys on the road through Dropbox or some FTP server--which Adam confirmed is the case.
I will also bet you serious money that the band wouldn't record or release any new material while the lawsuit was ongoing. If they lost, anything would be up for grabs up to and including demos.
tl;dr Fan obsessiveness, negativity, and lack of respect is a drag on creativity. The band was smart not to release anything until the lawsuit was settled.
Hairy Member
Yeah probably true to some degree.
I hadn't really thought of this as a possibility, ie that it has been intentional to hold back material for considerations around legalities and ownership. I still don't really think this was the case, but it's an interesting point to consider.
In summary, I guess everything is all wrapped up together and we can only speculate on the impact each negative factor had on the overall result, being a lack of creativity and production over the last 10 years. IMHO
Dis-member
I'll agree to disagree. The negative fans are SUCH a small portion (go to a show, no one there boos them off stage of talks bad about them, yet they sell the house out every night)- if any of the members were that sensitive to the online stuff they wouldn't have made it this far (this can go for any musician, not just Tool)- and if they did they would've said "fuck it, it's not worth it anymore, I'm rich" a long time ago. Maynard joining APC, which apparently put some friction amongst them, surely didn't drag on the creativity front since Lateralus was released after Mer De Noms. Releasing material during the lawsuit? They did that Opiate re-release thing. Not sure why writing/composing music would've strung them, they can put it together and work it out later without recording. It's been almost a year since the lawsuit has been settled.
Anyways, we'll have differing opinions on this. Don't feel like arguing about it anymore to be honest. It also wouldn't be surprising if we're having this same conversation 2 years from now.
Active Member
Nah, I'm sorry it's an argument. I only feel passionate about stuff because I'm surrounded by people who are taking this stuff way too seriously.
That and I know way too many musicians getting hamstrung by online communities tapping into their self doubt.
It's a raw nerve for me
Banned
Toooolollololollo
tempus est umbra in mente
The fans are awful not because they don't appreciate the band, it's because they're rabidly foaming at the mouth. I've been to Tool shows, and most of them have been good... and then there's the person next to me running around screaming "STAND UP AND RESPECT THE FUCKING TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!" at everyone sitting down in the nose-bleed section. It's because when you tell someone that you like the album Lateralus, they just might respond with "well, you may think you like it, but did you know if you listen to it backwards with the tracks arranged in a Fibonacci sequence, and take the first letter from every other lyric in the song, and then convert those letters into hexadecimal format, and then divide that number by the number of time signature changes that occur on the album, you get the phone number to the Scientology reception desk in Hollywood? Stick that in your crack pipe and smoke it, broseidon, lord of the brocean." And then there's the fans who actually say shit like "I used to listen to a lot of different bands, but then I discovered Tool, and y'know, fuck everything else, right?" At one show I went to, this guy in the audience was yelling out "I want to give birth to your babies Maynard! Fill me with your babies!!!!"
That, and while they won't boo Tool (even at the shows where I saw them really phoning it in), they will get pissed and boo the opening act, no matter who it is... this includes the show I saw where King Crimson opened up.
Only By Night
I've been to 3 Tool shows total and never heard those reactions. Not saying the fans aren't crazy and ridiculous signature syncs aren't true (Remember the Tool thread when 10,000 Days came out??) because they really are... but this isn't the only band that has their fans begging for another album or "Foaming at the mouth". I feel it's just a band that has run it's course. If they wanted to be relevant in recent music, they would be. Aside from all the legality issues and what not, it just seems like the don't really care anymore. If an album comes out, I'll listen to it for a few months and forget about it. But to say because a lot of fans are negative about the new album not coming out is a reason for them to not make it is ridiculous Imo. Bands and acts deal with negative fans all the time, and it is usually a passion for the music or of course, the money that keeps them going. Numerous musicians have multiple bands and of course they are always asked in an interview what is going on with their main band... God forbid Maynard gets upset because others are asking about Tool instead of Puscifer and APC. You release an album every 6 to ten years? What do you expect?
Last edited by Self.Destructive.Pattern; 12-03-2015 at 06:03 AM.
tempus est umbra in mente
I went to go see Aloke Dutta perform (amazing, btw), and there was this guy in the audience wearing a Tool t-shirt screaming "FUCK YEAH!!!! FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!" the whole time. Yes, we know he's Danny Carey's tabla teacher, but could you please shut the fuck up for a second so we can actually listen to the music?
Dis-member
The pattern of this thread is like the Fibonacci sequence.
<---- non-psycho Tool fan.
Yeah, I've never ran into one of those psychopaths thank god. I'm sure they're out there but probably no more or less than your typical huge fan base. Been to many concerts where there is some drunk moron who didn't take his meds earlier screaming "FUCK YEAHHH!!!" all night. Hey, at least someone was having a too good of time with Mr. Dutta!
Billy Howerdel fanboy
This is clearly a decoy thread and the real thread will be released later.
Active Member
I've seen the Tool crazies first hand as well. My friends and I made the mistake of standing on the rail because it was open for Isis' set. Of course Isis was booed. Once the lights went down for Tool, everyone went nuts. A guy right behind me starting telling me to get the fuck out of his way and starting pulling at me trying to rip me away from the rail. About halfway through the first song, I just conceded and moved back because I wasn't going to watch a show like that. And it wasn't just the normal pushing and shoving of being at the front of the show. I've done that a dozen times and never saw so many people go insane. One of my friends managed to stay on the rail, but he was getting hit so hard, he finally had to have security pull him over the barricade to escort him to the back. Some dude starting punching my other friend in his head when the show started too! Luckily some other people were around to stop it and they must have sent him to security. I guess this stuff could have happened at any rock or metal concert, but I've been to 150+ shows and have never seen an audience that unruly. Usually it's just one or two bad eggs if anything
Administrator
The last time I saw Tool was in Cleveland in 2002 at the Gund Arena. I bought tickets the week of the show, and they were 12 rows from the stage - the arena had seats on the floor.
It was a good experience, I was close and wasn't getting punched in the head, and I felt like as Tool shows go, it would be hard to top. Unless you're talking price. Tickets are absurd these days. I haven't been to a Tool show since.
tempus est umbra in mente
Pre-lateralus live Tool was one of the greatest concerts. They were hungry and pissed off, and still all of that humor that you see Maynard working with in Puscifer was actually part of the band. Nobody was jaded, you didn't have an arena full of dumb fucks. It was as intense as it was entertaining, and the joke wasn't "hey we'll exude pretentiousness because we know you dumb fuckers will swallow it and hopefully choke." Back then, it felt like the audience was in on the joke.
Active Member
I saw them in Cleveland Wolstein in 07(?) on the 10,000 Days tour when Isis was opening. People were booing Isis and making fun of the people who were up and getting into the music.
My girlfriend at the time had bad hips. While everyone was standing for Tool, she had to sit down and the people in front of us refused to move aside a little so she could see. The people behind us made fun of her for being insufficiency into Tool.
Active Member
Every single ticket for the Orlando show, even nosebleeds, is 85 dollars.
How? That's fucking insane.
Active Member
They used to be $66.66. I wish they'd stuck with that
Hairy Member
Did you get tickets? Nothing available as soon as they went on sale.
Active Member
Oh, and it doesn't even matter, because within three minutes "no tickets are available from the venue currently." Was planning on getting a couple and having the other be a Christmas gift to a friend of mine who also really wants to see them, suddenly doubting that heavily.
But seriously, no other band I have ever seen sells every single ticket regardless of seat or section at the same price. That's just insane. I'm so glad they're not my favorite band.
Edit: Now seats literally in the upper bowl as far as possible from the stage are being sold for $130 each on stubhub. I feel so punished for being a Tool fan.
Last edited by implanted_microchip; 12-04-2015 at 09:31 AM.
Dis-member
Go check CL in the coming days, and specifically the couple days before the show- you'll find something decent eventually.
Active Member
I know one big Tool fan and he is - to the letter - the person you have described.
Stubby Member
The only time I ever saw Tool was in 2002 for the Lateralus tour, and it was honestly one of the most disappointing shows I've ever seen. Visually there was a bunch going on, with lights and changing backdrops and floating props, but the band was so damn lifeless and boring. No energy, crowd engagement, movement...nothing. It seemed like a different band from what my friends told me about earlier shows. I really felt like I got fleeced at that show. I could've just stayed at home and listened to their records, the only real positive of the show was getting to see Tomahawk open.
Going by the footage of the recent Halloween show, Tool hasn't really changed since that tour. If you want to see a bunch of lasers, videos of Adams artwork and Alex Grey shit lighting up, spend all the money you're comfortable with, cause that's what you'll get. But you could probably wait until your local planetarium does a laser light show for Tool and see essentially the same thing for 1/10th of the price.
•••••¤○●○¤•••••
I saw them in '01 days before sept 11th and it was one of the greatest shows ive ever seen, next to fragility and roger waters the wall. It was a band at its peak. I dont even remember the crowd i was so transfixed and hypnotized by the performance. This was before i drank at concerts though. But since Lateralus era, the performances just arent the same for me. Its like they are just going thru the motions. Adam said recentely that he loves playing live and thats why they do this but i just dont see it. Seems like when he talks to music press, the bigger outlets, he says all the right things but it doesnt seem genuine to me for whatever reason. Those fuckers dont care anymore and thats fine too. Just call it quits then. Or do something different because 'the same' isnt working anymore. How bout this....write WITH maynard, try that out like old times. Try different guitar tunings, the drop d is played out. Maybe they should pull an an autolux/failure and have adam and justin switch instruments. Use a different producer or bring back Sylvia or Dave B. Anything....mix it up a little.
Active Member
People are probably sick of me saying this, but it seems like they do enjoy playing live. Adam always seems really focused to me and Maynard has toured with everyone lately.
Having said that, I do agree with people saying they HAD to tour for the money over the last couple years.
Active Member
It does make me wonder why each length of the tour is so short. I mean, if you need the money wouldn't you do a longer tour?
24.24.2.981
Limited edition Xmas merch on the Toolband page. Pretty decently priced too.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote