Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

[Louie_Cypher]

so many holes in the idiots plan: funny how every solution envoles buying and selling more guns. NRA's by it's true name America Association of Arms dealers.
-Louie

[Louie_Cypher]

Let's talk about the holes in everyone's plan though. Here's a headline from the same day as the FL school shooting.

In California, Convicted Felon Amassed Huge Arsenal Of Self-Built Guns, Ammo
https://www.dailywire.com/news/27487...n-saavedra?amp

Yup. Dozens of guns, about half were self built. Some were full auto. Nearly 70,000 rounds of ammo.

The only reason they found out is because of the 4 guns he had registered and didn't turn into the state. There are many more who didn't make that kind of mistake.

When do we stop focusing on c and start focusing on what's causing people to do the things we don't want them to do?

i think you answered your own question but that doesn't mean prohibition should be taken off the table. high capacity magazines
other countries don't have theses issues. when i ask people who i consider smart intelligent responsible people why they own a gun it becomes more about status then anything image i knew a guy who came a large amount of stock money so he bought lambo i asked why he said it would be "cool" a year later he said it was stupid traffic id so bad it can't be opened up properly has to find a specialty shop for service and costs around 2k to change the oil. last i checked we're a top the food chain there is no zombie apocalypse, this ain't clint Eastwood this isn't thr movies most gun owners and up shooting themselves or their family.
-Louie

[Mantra]

When do we stop focusing on prohibition and start focusing on what's causing people to do the things we don't want them to do?

What I don't want people to do: go on mass shooting sprees.

What's causing this: a culture of violence (e.g: the glorification of deadly weaponry).

[thelastdisciple]

A culture of violence but do we blame video games and movies? i don't think so, other first world countries have these things as well and they do not suffer anywhere near the same dysfunction.

[allegro]

when i ask people who i consider smart intelligent responsible people why they own a gun it becomes more about status then anything. i knew a guy who came a large amount of stock money so he bought lambo i asked why he said it would be "cool" a year later he said it was stupid traffic id so bad it can't be opened up properly has to find a specialty shop for service and costs around 2k to change the oil. last i checked we're a top the food chain there is no zombie apocalypse

I shouldn't be laughing in such a serious thread but this post is hilarious and pretty true, thanks Louie!

Now it ends up that THREE MORE (total = four) armed Sheriff's deputies stayed outside, didn't go into the school in Parkland. Like, wtf, Opie. Fucking chicken shits.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ooting-n850946

A note has been passing around online pointing out that President Reagan and James Brady were shot even though they were surrounded by armed Secret Service agents, fwiw.

[thevoid99]

A culture of violence but do we blame video games and movies? i don't think so, other first world countries have these things as well and they do not suffer anywhere near the same dysfunction.

Didn't we have this argument many years ago and we're back to it again?

[allegro]

Have you guys seen this kid in Florida's history? Like, 12 years of the neighbors calling the cops and stuff? Like, threatening and killing animals and stuff? Transcripts of warning to the FBI of multiple weapons.

The right is blaming mental illness, but they won't let this kid out of a trial due to mental illness; they'll be going for the death penalty.

[theimage13]

https://waynelapierre.com

Head of the NRA, Wayne LaPierre, has a new website.

[Mantra]

Now it ends up that THREE MORE (total = four) armed Sheriff's deputies stayed outside, didn't go into the school in Parkland. Like, wtf, Opie. Fucking chicken shits.

Bet the conspiracy theorists are gonna latch onto this.

[allegro]

Yup. But it's not a reason to ignore it.

The FBI had 2 opportunities to investigate the kid.
The local police were called to his house 39 times.
And 4 cops waited outside while children were shot up and bled to death.
The kid was posting online with his full name making threats that were reported to the Feds, but they couldn't find him.


Yet these are the same people I am supposed to give my guns up to because they are going to protect me? LOLNO That this is an acceptable political response is enough of a conspiracy on its own. As is how ridiculously bad government is at doing their fucking job.

Kinda nitpicking but they were Sheriffs deputies; the Coral Springs PD arrived and saw the SD outside and got pissed, the CSPD ran into the school.

But, to make things worse, the CSPD had been monitoring security cams inside the school which were on a 20 minute delay ... http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/br...222-story.html

Holy shit

The “communication failure” led police to believe they were tracking the shooter in real time, when in fact they were seeing footage from 20 minutes earlier, the chief said.

Cruz had already killed 17 and fled.

[allegro]

Yes, typo, eating dinner and watching Olympic Closing Ceremony while typing. The quoted article said minutes.

They WERE familiar with the delay to their feed, it was a communication error to the dispatch team.

It’s especially freaking me out since my little brother went to high school at that school; in the 90s, but if our Dad and his Mom were still alive, they’d be pretty freaked out right now.

I just want some fucking Rambo security in place so no other kids can ever die again. I’m sick of this bullshit.

[Louie_Cypher]

The fact that they were deputies certainly doesn't make me want to transfer more power to the whole system. It's all way too fucked up for the suggestion to even be viable.

It was a 20 MINUTE delay. That is something that makes you facepalm, but it somewhat excusable. They aren't going to be familiar with how everyone's security systems work. Hopefully the impact was truly as minimal as they claim.

but teachers with guns will get the job done haha ha ha haha,no one remembers the shop teacher with the missing digets but sells more weapons. makes manufacturers more money do it must be the best solution. are we really that stupid, is anyone?
-Louie

[Mantra]

Yup. But it's not a reason to ignore it.

The FBI had 2 opportunities to investigate the kid.
The local police were called to his house 39 times.
And 4 cops waited outside while children were shot up and bled to death.
The kid was posting online with his full name making threats that were reported to the Feds, but they couldn't find him.

I know, which is fucking crazy and the authorities deserve all the shit they're getting over not doing enough. Totally agree with all that.

That post of mine was just me thinking about those super fringey types of people, the ones who think that Sandy Hook was all staged, that everything under the sun is a false flag, that pizzagate is real, etc. As soon as they hear that the idiot cops sat around doing nothing while a fucking mass shooting was taking place inside, the wheels in their heads are gonna start spinning and they're gonna see it all as part of a big covert plot.

Yet these are the same people I am supposed to give my guns up to because they are going to protect me? LOLNO

I mean, I could just flip this reasoning around. If a bunch of highly trained law enforcement professionals can't manage to keep from horribly fucking up or from killing innocent people left and right, how's the average untrained American going to deal with it? Most people don't handle themselves well in a crisis at all. I know I certainly don't. People are idiots. Give them a bunch of guns and now they're just extremely DANGEROUS idiots.

[Mantra]

The average concealed carry person seems to have better accuracy and/or perform better under pressure. I would guess this is because, on average, they train more. I don't have the exact numbers off the top of my head, but it's something like 200% more bystanders get hit by police than private citizens, measured per gun use situation. It makes sense. Cops do their yearly qualification and it's treated as "just do good enough to keep the job" while concealed carry people take it more serious as a life choice.

Ha, if that's true, that's funny. And fucking horrible and depressing as shit. Add this to the long list of reasons why I do not trust the police, categorically.

Still doesn't make me support conceal and carry, btw.

IMO, it's the classic public vs private business incentive pathways.

Seems like a weird application of free market/privatization politics to me. Some dude walking around with his conceal and carry isn't motivated by "business incentives" of any kind, private or otherwise. He's just trying to live out an ideological performance. It's the gun-lover's version of virtue signaling.

[theimage13]

@Mantra - I'm not exactly arguing for the inverse situation. It's more of an "it's the 3rd/4th/5th option that's isn't in the '2 sides' dichotomy"

That said, your inverse actually goes against the data. The average concealed carry person seems to have better accuracy and/or perform better under pressure. I would guess this is because, on average, they train more. I don't have the exact numbers off the top of my head, but it's something like 200% more bystanders get hit by police than private citizens, measured per gun use situation. It makes sense. Cops do their yearly qualification and it's treated as "just do good enough to keep the job" while concealed carry people take it more serious as a life choice.

Lots of people expect police to be "well trained" but it's really a bar of "don't be so bad you get fired". IMO, it's the classic public vs private business incentive pathways.

Without seeing any data on that at all, I find it all pretty hard to believe. BUT even if you do come up with some concrete data, I still have a problem with the logistics behind it.

Police are in situations in which they're likely to need to discharge a weapon on a regular basis compared to the "average c&c". Put them in a higher number of chaotic situations and you're going to have a higher number of accidents (I'll give you the notion that many officers need to spend more time on the range). But I also don't get how you could possibly collect meaningful data on the "average conceal & carry" user, especially with data points like "performing better under pressure". That, to me, implies that you have an extraordinarily high amount of data about how accurate private citizens are at stopping a situation under an extreme amount of duress. And there's a huge difference between being accurate on the range and being accurate when you're packing a pistol and there's a madman firing at anything that moves.

[Louie_Cypher]

i going to be a little harsh here but needs to be said most people don't need a c&C" license, it's mostly about status and image, we don't live in Syria, yet. you want to play cowboy, go rent a woody costume or I'll send you my barely played copy of red dead redemption. most can barely drive correctly, much less carry a deadly weapon on their hip, to be fair I would say the same thing if it was suddenly started carry around samurai swords. war death shooting some kind macho badge of honor. talk to a veteran or victim of gun violence. this is the 21st century not the 1800's so if you thinking about getting a gun take a minute and ask you self do I really really need a gun.
-Louie

[thelastdisciple]

Careful Louie you don't want to bring up veterans or victims of gun violence because they're all emotionally compromised and aren't qualified to have an opinion on the matter.

[allegro]

Speaking of victims of gun violence: There really should be a law allowing us to go after these abusive stupid useless pieces of shit online who feel the need to harass people who’ve been victims of violence or have been traumatized by violence:

https://thinkprogress.org/parkland-s...-6fc397ab2b9f/

[allegro]

i going to be a little harsh here but needs to be said most people don't need a c&C" license, it's mostly about status and image, we don't live in Syria, yet. you want to play cowboy, go rent a woody costume or I'll send you my barely played copy of red dead redemption. most can barely drive correctly, much less carry a deadly weapon on their hip, to be fair I would say the same thing if it was suddenly started carry around samurai swords. war death shooting some kind macho badge of honor. talk to a veteran or victim of gun violence. this is the 21st century not the 1800's so if you thinking about getting a gun take a minute and ask you self do I really really need a gun.
-Louie

Lots of people in or around urban areas really do feel the need for cc licenses for safety, not status. I’ve considered it. My little brother has a cc license. Cc licenses aren’t the problem.

And we’ve read about accounts here in Chicago where citizens with cc licenses used weapons to protect people. And they aimed and shot just fine. With target practice, you at least shoot better than gang members.

Comparing the U.S. to Syria: it’s funny that you say that, but Syria doesn’t have concealed weapons; they carry weapons around openly now. Because they are at war. But the U.S. has always been wide open territory of Cowboys and Indians and it never really changed. The settlers crossed to the West with guns, the South protected their property and prevented slaves from leaving with guns, the North and East protected themselves against gangland crime with guns, we have always used guns and we always will.

I’ve talked to “anti gun” Americans who went on long road trips across this HUGE country or camped out in the woods and suddenly expressed the desire for a shotgun or handgun. Because crimes of opportunity DO happen in those wide open or wooded spaces all the time in our country, that’s the way it’s always been. They’ve read Truman Capote’s “In Cold Blood.”

Re cops and accuracy, the vast majority of cops don’t fire at ranges, they fire in simulators, ammo and ranges are too costly and simulators are far more realistic.

See this: https://www.app.com/story/news/inves...iff/908919001/

[thelastdisciple]

That didn't take long, so what was that about the arming teachers in schools?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...school-n851986

[allegate]

[allegro]

LOL, not true, you should've seen the Republicans at the table yesterday when Trump was saying "take the guns first, THEN get a warrant" LOL LOL it was hilarious! Looked like they were gonna have a grabber!

Re teachers armed in schools, this was exactly what I was worried about, I said that to my husband, like arming pilots is a bad idea = remember when that pilot who took control of the airplane and crashed it, killing everybody on board?

[allegate]

So we can all be Captain America now? Awesome!

[Mantra]

^I wouldn't want to rely on that thing to protect me.

[eversonpoe]

got really stressed out yesterday because this happened right near where my wife works. didn't find out it was a hoax until after i had started driving into evanston to drive her to therapy from work so she wouldn't have to walk, because i'm a jewish mother and i get very worried.

Northwestern shooting report ‘a hoax,’ lockdown lifted: Evanston police

Glew called it a “swatting” incident — a false report intended to provoke a SWAT team response, sometimes to divert police attention away from other crimes. No other incidents were reported on campus Wednesday afternoon, Cubbage said.
The caller is still at large.

don't understand why anyone would do such a thing.

[sick among the pure]

Right after my local school's walkout, someone threatened making it the next school shooting scene. They have been charged, their house will be searched, and I am 0% surprised that happened.

[allegro]

got really stressed out yesterday because this happened right near where my wife works. didn't find out it was a hoax until after i had started driving into evanston to drive her to therapy from work so she wouldn't have to walk, because i'm a jewish mother and i get very worried.

Northwestern shooting report ‘a hoax,’ lockdown lifted: Evanston police


don't understand why anyone would do such a thing.

It's called swatting (like calling the SWAT team) and it happens a LOT more than people realize, people get KILLED by swatting.

there was a swatting near where I live.

I was watching that shit going down in Evanston yesterday, because I lived in Evanston for several years; the whole downtown area was on lockdown, nobody was allowed anywhere near downtown Evanston, totally nuts. At first, I thought it was on the main northeast campus area but then I saw it was at Maple and Emerson, wtf, that's not even the Northwestern campus, that's just downtown Evanston! Crazy stuff.

[thelastdisciple]

A group of military veterans came together to create an all-veteran PSA about gun control. It stars military veterans of all genders, ages, ethnicities and military backgrounds. Their message is clear, “...we carried the M4/M16, we know its power first hand, and there is no reason it should be for sale in this country.”

[telee.kom]

https://pitchfork.com/news/killer-mi...new-nra-video/

It's not his stance on gun ownership (which I think it's stupid but whatever), but what he says about his children "I told my kids on the school walkout: ‘I love you—if you walk out that school, walk out my house...’" that just rubs me the wrong fucking way. I can respect different opinions, but basically saying to your own children 'if you don't have the same opinion as me, I'm going to kick you out' that is too much.

[telee.kom]

His kids own guns.

And that's a problem maybe? I don't really care it's a hyperbole, it's a stupid point to make