Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

[DigitalChaos]

Your reply was just as I expected.

I'm done in here.

please be true

[Jinsai]

Your reply was just as I expected.

Good

please be true

Yep. Enjoy talking to yourself

[DigitalChaos]

lol, George Zimmerman is now patrolling gun stores to protect them from burglars.

http://www.guns.com/2014/07/29/georg...reak-in-video/

[DigitalChaos]

The state sends a SWAT team and knocks down your front door and confiscates your gun and ammo? Sounds great, but that won't happen. Not in the interest of protecting your civil rights (although, that would be nice for abused spouses), but because that's not a priority for law enforcement and never will be

Until they start throwing money at law enforcement every time they make a gun bust, much the same way they do it with the drug war.

Also, "mentally ill" is also way too nonspecific. Remember when homosexuality was classified as a mental illness (pre-1973)? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/0...mental-illness

[allegro]

Until they start throwing money at law enforcement every time they make a gun bust, much the same way they do it with the drug war.

Also, "mentally ill" is also way too nonspecific. Remember when homosexuality was classified as a mental illness (pre-1973)? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/0...mental-illness

HIPAA is way too strict to allow anybody access to anybody's health records, let alone mental health records. So it doesn't matter how we define it. Ain't happening. The fact that we ASK anybody about their mental health on gun forms is laughable, at best. It's like asking people if they're carrying any weapons on security forms. lolright.

NYC cleaned up their streets (NYC was a fucking CESSPOOL back in the 70s) by violating a whole lot of civil rights but, ultimately, sometimes you have to trade one freedom for another freedom (some shitty people's right to privacy for a lot of family's RIGHT TO LIVE).

Also, See today's New York Times' OpEd piece, a call for marijuana legalization, which would do a lot toward decreasing crime involving guns, decreasing our prison population of victimless non-violent crimes, etc. Bravo.

[allegro]

I said we should shut down sales of guns at gun shows. I do not think any guns should actually be sold at the shows.

For what it's worth, not many (hardly any) "bad guy guns" are sold at gun shows. The biggest culprit in bad guy guns are "straw man" sales, which are purchased at legitimate licensed gun stores. The same rules about buying guns that apply at gun stores apply at gun shows.

While the image of that Dad crying and railing against the system after his daughter was shot by that crazy guy in Santa Barbara is sad, banning every gun in the country right now wouldn't do jack shit. Seriously. Not one damned thing. That guy STABBED three of his roommates to death. We can't protect our kids from everything. I get more pissed off when I see some kid who survived Iraq and then comes home and gets killed by some stupid fucking drunk driver. And that happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME. We can't seem to keep these drunks from behind the wheel of a car. They get drunk then they want to DRIVE. After several DUIs, we just can't seem to stop them. Even when we attach a breathalyzer to the ignition; they have a friend (ha) breathe into the breathalyzer. They're selfish pricks who don't care about who they endanger or kill. They're in denial, they don't think they're a danger, and they kill over 10,000 people per year. How the fuck do we stop THAT? How do we legislate THAT? Meanwhile, everybody's focused on mass murders which hardly ever happen, and over 10,000 people get killed by drunk assholes driving motorized vehicles every year.

[DigitalChaos]

HIPAA is way too strict to allow anybody access to anybody's health records, let alone mental health records. So it doesn't matter how we define it. Ain't happening. The fact that we ASK anybody about their mental health on gun forms is laughable, at best. It's like asking people if they're carrying any weapons on security forms. lolright.

Yup!
Right now there are laws that block doctors from even asking about guns (which I really disagree with).

NYC cleaned up their streets (NYC was a fucking CESSPOOL back in the 70s) by violating a whole lot of civil rights but, ultimately, sometimes you have to trade one freedom for another freedom (some shitty people's right to privacy for a lot of family's RIGHT TO LIVE).

I may not agree with the approach, but I won't deny the potential for a positive impact. Those kinds of situations are almost always racially biased though. I mean, take a look at NY's stop-and-frisk crap that is closely connected to gun control.

Also, See today's New York Times' OpEd piece, a call for marijuana legalization, which would do a lot toward decreasing crime involving guns, decreasing our prison population of victimless non-violent crimes, etc. Bravo.

Whoa, I'm looking forward to what they publish. I really can't think of a single issue in this country that could result in so much positive. There is so much corruption and so much addiction to money within the drug war that it is going to be very hard to crush, but we seriously need to try. I hate single-issue voters, but this is one area that could seriously sway me.



Also, I did some digging about the denials for CCW permits in Chicago. It doesn't seem like there is any tangible data, but out of the 200ish people suing there are quite a few claiming that the denials are racially motivated. There seem to be a few examples where an african american had a pristine record and even military service, but was denied. If they were simply trying to stall, why did they authorize 5k of the 50k applications?

I agree that more CCW will improve things, but how fucked is your local system if they are that important? It's like the vigilante groups that are rising up in Mexico for the same reasons. There should be some level of response against the local government as well. Vote everyone out, stop paying taxes, fuck... i don't know. How is it that a known criminal can be caught with a gun and then quickly turned back out onto the street? Similar things are happening out here in SF and crime is increasing as a result. It's getting just silly out in Oakland.

I think I posted this before but this stuff goes on almost every night in Oakland. I know it's nowhere near what happens in Chicago but... still wtf?!

[Satyr]

I said we should shut down sales of guns at gun shows. I do not think any guns should actually be sold at the shows. Then there won't be any possibility for loop holes, which you claim don't exist. I actually think the entire way we sell guns should be regulated and handled in a completely different way. I love that you think you're offering some kind of intellectual argument, in between comparing guns to games and posting pictures of fetish guns. You already earlier said that you use ridiculous words like hoplophobe because you were hoping to "elicit that reaction." So you wanted a semantic shot at your silly bullshit, just so you could cry about it later? Nobody's impressed by your pretentious gun hobbyist lingo, nobody gives a fuck about your videos of the guy from KMFDM shooting a gun. If you stop boosting this thread with this horseshit, it'll die. And since that sounds great right about now, I'm done in here.

It's pretty obvious to any rational human being that you actually are a hoplophobe.......I had to look it up but its obvious that you have a deep seeded irrational fear of firearms.

[allegro]

Oh bullshit, he's been here since 2005, he's not irrational about anything, stop being a troll. I think he just doesn't like the rednecks buying guns at gun shows.

[DigitalChaos]

Today there is going to be a hearing with the ATF about a case that I have some stake in. It's a pretty interesting one from the legal perspective. It's a situation made possible by states with very restrictive gun laws like California. This video sums up most of the situation but doesn't mention some of the legal angles being explored. Depending on the angle the ATF takes, this may actually become a first amendment issue (some of the docs claimed their issue is with visual markings on the material).



This is the magic that can occur if you follow the law VERY closely

[DigitalChaos]

See today's New York Times' OpEd piece

I somehow missed the additional parts on this.

I don't know where it is coming from, but it seems others are starting to pick up on this issue. I just watched Rand Paul and Cory Booker work together (REDEEM Act) and discuss their plan on MSNBC.
So happy to see this NOT become a partisan topic.

[Deepvoid]

I guess the 2nd Amendment comes in handy with those children crossing the Mexican borders.
You know have armed militia pointing guns at those kids. Should we take some bets on the number of days before some trigger happy maniac shots one?

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news...5652531.php#/0

[DigitalChaos]

I guess the 2nd Amendment comes in handy with those children crossing the Mexican borders.
You know have armed militia pointing guns at those kids. Should we take some bets on the number of days before some trigger happy maniac shots one?

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news...5652531.php#/0

What a bunch of douchebags. They have no business doing this shit unless it happens to be on their own property.
If I lived around there, I would be tempted to drop by and ensure the free an unhindered movement of any individual that wanted walk around. We seriously need to fix our immigration situation and make things much more open.

[elevenism]

If I lived around there, I would be tempted to drop by and ensure the free an unhindered movement of any individual that wanted walk around. We seriously need to fix our immigration situation and make things much more open.

i agree 100 percent.
How the fuck can a government tell a man where he is allowed to move in physical reality? it blows my mind.
And we need to give amnesty to EVERYONE here...they are already fucking here!
The anti immigrant arguments are all so ridiculous and easily refuted.
I'm not latino but this issue makes my blood boil.

The gun control issue is a tricky one. However, i honestly believe, as i stated before, that it is used as a smokescreen...a diversion tactic...to keep people from paying attention to foul shit the government is doing.

[thelastdisciple]

Here's something I'm sure is going to raise @DigitalChaos 's blood pressure.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opin...guns/14240001/

[Timinator]

Do Americans think (or care) about what the rest of the world thinks of their use of guns?

[marodi]

Do Americans think (or care) about what the rest of the world thinks of their use of guns?

Half the country is sane and rational while the other half simply doesn't grasp the inconsistencies and historic lunacy of its position, which springs from the second amendment right to keep and bear arms, and is derived from English common law and our 1689 Bill of Rights. We dispensed with these rights long ago, but American gun owners cleave to them with the tenacity that previous generations fought to continue slavery. Astonishingly, when owning a gun is not about ludicrous macho fantasy, it is mostly seen as a matter of personal safety, like the airbag in the new Ford pick-up or avoiding secondary smoke, despite conclusive evidence that people become less safe as gun ownership rises.

Nailed it. There is no point discussing gun ownership with some Americans because it always comes down to SECOND AMENDMENT, BITCH!

[DigitalChaos]

Here's something I'm sure is going to raise @DigitalChaos's blood pressure.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opin...guns/14240001/

Really couldn't care less. Kroger is private property and they can make whatever rules they want.

Nailed it. There is no point discussing gun ownership with some Americans because it always comes down to SECOND AMENDMENT, BITCH!

So amend the constitution just like they did with your quoted topic on slavery. Oh what's that? Your shoddy justifications such as "conclusive evidence that people become less safe as gun ownership rises" falls apart when the majority of people in this country hear it?

That article is 1 year old and it hinges off the ridiculous and very nonspecific "gun deaths" statistic that has been beaten to death. A very large portion of that stat comes from cops killing people. Which of you is up for taking away the weapons from cops? As the Ferguson situation unfolds, I see that ETS is basically silent on it. But hey, go ahead and use the deaths of people like Mike Brown to further your political agenda without ever doing shit to help them.

[tony.parente]

As the Ferguson situation unfolds, I see that ETS is basically silent on it.

The board may be silent but it's members aren't. I've been having quite the discussion with a few members on facebook.

[allegro]

The board may be silent but it's members aren't. I've been having quite the discussion with a few members on facebook.

It's been the topic of discussion in the "Things the Piss You Off" thread.

I was born and raised in Detroit and remember the 1967 race riots very clearly from my childhood; the tanks, the curfews, the fires. While this is not the magnitude of Detroit, this is definitely bringing back childhood memories of Detroit. I've been following Ferguson on television and radio and online all day and night. We are witnessing history.

[allegro]

(But I think Ferguson really needs its own thread if we were to discuss it, since it has no place in THIS thread.)

[tony.parente]

NO FERGUSON THREAD

For the love of all that is holy that would be a fucking atom bomb for this board haha
Srs, I already had one member on this board go off on me saying i'm racist and a bad person (they're a FTP nutcase anyways) and another one who probably came close to unfriending me. That shit will tear this board apart I think.

Very polarizing, too polarizing IMO

[DigitalChaos]

I call bullshit. I'm willing to bet that almost everyone on ETS is in the "fuck the police" camp. I think we need a ferguson thread to prove it.

[tony.parente]

I call bullshit. I'm willing to bet that almost everyone on ETS is in the "fuck the police" camp. I think we need a ferguson thread to prove it.

Well if you make one I'm not going in there, I want to keep liking you guys even if most of you don't like me.

[DigitalChaos]

Well if you make one I'm not going in there, I want to keep liking you guys even if most of you don't like me.

[Timinator]

So amend the constitution just like they did with your quoted topic on slavery. Oh what's that? Your shoddy justifications such as "conclusive evidence that people become less safe as gun ownership rises" falls apart when the majority of people in this country hear it?

That article is 1 year old and it hinges off the ridiculous and very nonspecific "gun deaths" statistic that has been beaten to death. A very large portion of that stat comes from cops killing people. Which of you is up for taking away the weapons from cops? As the Ferguson situation unfolds, I see that ETS is basically silent on it. But hey, go ahead and use the deaths of people like Mike Brown to further your political agenda without ever doing shit to help them.

The only thing that's been beaten to death is the responsible analysis of gun death causes. And I maintain that that can only be done by publicly funded medical researchers. This should be looked at as a public health issue. Anyone else could be accused of bias. Unfortunately, the US Congress has a moratorium on funding firearm injury prevention research.

Nevertheless, some studies are being done by health researchers getting funding elsewhere, as it's the best they can do. For example: High gun ownership makes countries less safe, US study finds [2013]. This is discussed well in this Guardian article.

According to these numbers from the Economist, gun deaths caused by police look to be under 5% of the total. But I would agree that the same gun fervour that affects the entire US affects their police, too.

I'm not going to comment on Ferguson because the issue of racism in the US is one I don't care to tackle. We have our own issues with racism here in Australia that I spend more time worrying about and talking about. But at least we sorted out our gun issues after just one massacre.

[Swykk]

I wouldn't mention me by name either, Tony. Then people might be able to go and see how easily I took apart your argument that consists solely of "police talking points."
If you're siding with the police in this (and most things), you are wrong. It's pretty simple. Only takes a cursory Google and YouTube search to gain perspective and figure out what's really happening. What I can't quite figure out is if he's trolling, ignorantly racist, or naive. Maybe a combination of all.

[Sarah K]

Tony is getting information from totally legitimate sources such as this:

http://threepercenternation.com/

Just for some perspective on the whole situation.

[tony.parente]

ITT: grasping at straws because your argument is falling apart day by day.

[Sarah K]

ITT: You defend linking to racist shit... Which is actually really, REALLY disappointing.