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  1. #3181
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    Plenty of them while mentioning social and environment factors, claim that biological differences play a huge role in the differences between the sexes. You probably won't find a study saying that societal/environmental play a bigger role than biological, but then does that bring the question of how come in more egalitarian societies, where women have the privileged to choose whatever profession they want, they tend to go to more "people oriented" professions. A reason why you won't see that in less egalitarian societies is because women don't have that same privileged. Women didn't work at the factories during the WWII because they chose to, if given the choice they would've prefer other professions.

    Differences between men and women's neural wiring:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1202161935.htm

    http://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spri...different.html

    : “At the time, it seemed clear to me that any between-sex differences in thinking abilities were due to socialization practices, artifacts and mistakes in the research, and bias and prejudice. ...After reviewing a pile of journal articles...I changed my mind.Why? There was too much data pointing to the biological basis of sex-based cognitive differences to ignore, Halpern says. For one thing, the animal-research findings resonated with sex-based differences ascribed to people. These findings continue to accrue. In a study of 34 rhesus monkeys, for example, males strongly preferred toys with wheels over plush toys, whereas females found plush toys likable. It would be tough to argue that the monkeys’ parents bought them sex-typed toys or that simian society encourages its male offspring to play more with trucks. A much more recent study established that boys and girls 9 to 17 months old — an age when children show few if any signs of recognizing either their own or other children’s sex — nonetheless show marked differences in their preference for stereotypically male versus stereotypically female toys.”


    Last edited by Sallos; 08-11-2017 at 07:07 PM.

  2. #3182
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    Quote Originally Posted by telee.kom View Post
    See I don't really understand why does it even have to be 50/50 split, there's some sort of gender gap in every work field and I don't think it's necessarily wrong. Or better yet, why STEM fields are such a hot topic and not
    Don't you just hate it how society wants to turn men into boilermakers?

    Ok i take that back, boilermakers can make 60k a year, im impressed.



    look at them, all male, all white. This has to change!
    Last edited by Sallos; 08-11-2017 at 07:16 PM.

  3. #3183
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    I was in the Printing industry from age 15 to 24, doing everything in the shop, in a male-dominated industry, but my Dad (who owned a printing company) only cared that I was a worker. Blue collar work doesn't generally care about males or females. The Big Three have always had females working the lines. I grew up in a blue collar family, who never cared about male or female.

    When I went into white collar work? THAT'S when I started experiencing discrimination; age and sex and education discrimination. I was smarter and had more experience than those around me in management, but I was a 24-yr-old blonde cute female. It was hard getting them to take me seriously. Ultimately, my hard work proved my abilities and my intelligence, but it was harder for me than the white Ivy League guy in the Old Boy's network. Note that this was in the TECH field in the mid-80s.

    Since then, I've been in law where female attorneys still have trouble in male-dominated law firms. Law is not "people oriented" yet it's one of the fastest-growing female fields. In the not-too-distant future, the reality will be that at least half of law will be occupied by females. The really interesting thing is how males are now going into areas previously dominated by females. I was in grad school with guys who were going for post-baccalaureate paralegal certifications. I hired male high school students to do legal secretary work for extra school credit (when they answered our phones, clients assumed they were attorneys because they were male, lol). Male nurses are lots more common (and not "gay" as always assumed). Teachers used to be all female, but a ton of teachers are male. Ditto for flight attendants, etc. By opening up opportunities to females, you also do so for males.

    @telee.kom , you say you haven't "seen" it but you don't live in the U.S. and you're not a woman so you wouldn't be able to experience it, no more than I could experience your competive reality. I think each sex experiences pressures based on expectations from gender norms.

    I agree that "equalizing" all fields just for the sake of itself *seems* dumb, but the attitude behind it is usually (always) based on data supporting the idea that there are a lot of educated and qualified people out there not being represented or being neglected. Affirmative action here relates not only to sex but also to race, for the record.

    Last edited by allegro; 08-12-2017 at 09:14 AM.

  4. #3184
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    Interesting from Sallos' above link (https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...02161935.htm):

    In one of the largest studies looking at the "connectomes" of the sexes, Ragini Verma, PhD, an associate professor in the department of Radiology at the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania, and colleagues found greater neural connectivity from front to back and within one hemisphere in males, suggesting their brains are structured to facilitate connectivity between perception and coordinated action. In contrast, in females, the wiring goes between the left and right hemispheres, suggesting that they facilitate communication between the analytical and intuition.

    "These maps show us a stark difference--and complementarity--in the architecture of the human brain that helps provide a potential neural basis as to why men excel at certain tasks, and women at others," said Verma.

    For instance, on average, men are more likely better at learning and performing a single task at hand, like cycling or navigating directions, whereas women have superior memory and social cognition skills, making them more equipped for multitasking and creating solutions that work for a group. They have a mentalistic approach, so to speak.

    Past studies have shown sex differences in the brain, but the neural wiring connecting regions across the whole brain that have been tied to such cognitive skills has never been fully shown in a large population.

    In the study, Verma and colleagues, including co-authors Ruben C. Gur, PhD, a professor of psychology in the department of Psychiatry, and Raquel E. Gur, MD, PhD, professor of Psychiatry, Neurology and Radiology, investigated the gender-specific differences in brain connectivity during the course of development in 949 individuals (521 females and 428 males) aged 8 to 22 years using diffusion tensor imaging (DTI). DTI is water-based imaging technique that can trace and highlight the fiber pathways connecting the different regions of the brain, laying the foundation for a structural connectome or network of the whole brain.

    The brain is a roadmap of neural pathways linking many networks that help us process information and react accordingly, with behavior controlled by several of these sub-networks working in conjunction.

    In the study, the researchers found that females displayed greater connectivity in the supratentorial region, which contains the cerebrum, the largest part of the brain, between the left and right hemispheres. Males, on the other hand, displayed greater connectivity within each hemisphere.

    By contrast, the opposite prevailed in the cerebellum, the part of the brain that plays a major role in motor control, where males displayed greater inter-hemispheric connectivity and females displayed greater intra-hemispheric connectivity.

    These connections likely give men an efficient system for coordinated action, where the cerebellum and cortex participate in bridging between perceptual experiences in the back of the brain, and action, in the front of the brain, according to the authors. The female connections likely facilitate integration of the analytic and sequential processing modes of the left hemisphere with the spatial, intuitive information processing modes of the right side.

    The authors observed only a few gender differences in the connectivity in children younger than 13 years, but the differences were more pronounced in adolescents aged 14 to 17 years and young adults older than 17.

    The findings were also consistent with a Penn behavior study, of which this imaging study was a subset of, that demonstrated pronounced sexual differences. Females outperformed males on attention, word and face memory, and social cognition tests. Males performed better on spatial processing and sensorimotor speed. Those differences were most pronounced in the 12 to 14 age range.

    "It's quite striking how complementary the brains of women and men really are," said Dr. Ruben Gur. "Detailed connectome maps of the brain will not only help us better understand the differences between how men and women think, but it will also give us more insight into the roots of neurological disorders, which are often sex related."

    Next steps are to quantify how an individual's neural connections are different from the population; identify which neural connections are gender specific and common in both; and to see if findings from functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) studies fall in line with the connectome data
    From Sallos' above Stanford link:

    But over the past 15 years or so, there’s been a sea change as new technologies have generated a growing pile of evidence that there are inherent differences in how men’s and women’s brains are wired and how they work.

    Not how well they work, mind you. Our differences don’t mean one sex or the other is better or smarter or more deserving. Some researchers have grappled with charges of “neurosexism”: falling prey to stereotypes or being too quick to interpret human sex differences as biological rather than cultural. They counter, however, that data from animal research, cross-​cultural surveys, natural experiments and brain-imaging studies demonstrate real, if not always earthshaking, brain differences, and that these differences may contribute to differences in behavior and cognition.
    Behavior differences

    In 1991, just a few years before Shah launched his sex-differences research, Diane Halpern, PhD, past president of the American Psychological Association, began writing the first edition of her acclaimed academic text, Sex Differences in Cognitive Abilities. She found that the ​animal-​research literature had been steadily accreting reports of sex-associated neuroanatomical and behavioral differences, but those studies were mainly gathering dust in university libraries. Social psychologists and sociologists pooh-poohed the notion of any fundamental cognitive differences between male and female humans, notes Halpern, a professor emerita of psychology at Claremont McKenna College.

    In her preface to the first edition, Halpern wrote: “At the time, it seemed clear to me that any between-sex differences in thinking abilities were due to socialization practices, artifacts and mistakes in the research, and bias and prejudice. ... After reviewing a pile of journal articles that stood several feet high and numerous books and book chapters that dwarfed the stack of journal articles … I changed my mind.”

    Why? There was too much data pointing to the biological basis of sex-based cognitive differences to ignore, Halpern says. For one thing, the animal-research findings resonated with sex-based differences ascribed to people. These findings continue to accrue. In a study of 34 rhesus monkeys, for example, males strongly preferred toys with wheels over plush toys, whereas females found plush toys likable. It would be tough to argue that the monkeys’ parents bought them sex-typed toys or that simian society encourages its male offspring to play more with trucks. A much more recent study established that boys and girls 9 to 17 months old — an age when children show few if any signs of recognizing either their own or other children’s sex — nonetheless show marked differences in their preference for stereotypically male versus stereotypically female toys.

    Halpern and others have cataloged plenty of human behavioral differences. “These findings have all been replicated,” she says. Women excel in several measures of verbal ability — pretty much all of them, except for verbal analogies. Women’s reading comprehension and writing ability consistently exceed that of men, on average. They outperform men in tests of fine-motor coordination and perceptual speed. They’re more adept at retrieving information from long-term memory.

    Men, on average, can more easily juggle items in working memory. They have superior visuospatial skills: They’re better at visualizing what happens when a complicated two- or three-dimensional shape is rotated in space, at correctly determining angles from the horizontal, at tracking moving objects and at aiming projectiles.

    Navigation studies in both humans and rats show that females of both species tend to rely on landmarks, while males more typically rely on “dead reckoning”: calculating one’s position by estimating the direction and distance traveled rather than using landmarks.
    Interesting that some of this totally refutes the data provided in the study linked higher up in this page.

    I took grad school level neuroscience classes and one thing we learned from the TONS of research we studied: we don't know a whole hell of a lot, relatively speaking, about the human brain. A lot of it is still a mystery and a miracle.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-11-2017 at 11:21 PM.

  5. #3185
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    Really, this has drifted off the fucking rails from the headlines here re the Google firing.

    Companies in casual employment states can fire at-will. Freedom of speech is not extended to employees. It only protects you from being arrested, not employed. People have made public statements on Facebook re all kinds of shit and were fired. A college professor at Wheaton College was fired for saying that "all religions follow the same God" (she was quoting the Pope re Islam and peace). Wheaton College is an Evangelical College and professors agree, in employment agreements, to adhere by the Evangelical rules. If a company policy is made clear, that's going to protect the company. They don't really care about diversity or whatever; they care about SHAREHOLDERS.

    Sorry, didn't mean to take up so much of this thread, I'm out, promise.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-12-2017 at 12:05 AM.

  6. #3186
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    I missed how they contradicted each other, though contradicting studies in science is a norm. Bottom line is there are differences in male and female brain and those differences play a role in the sexes preferences and choices they make.
    How come more men are in jail? Social biases? Or is it because they're more violent? Why are they more violent than women? Social and environmental reasons? Or does testosterone play a role?

    What do you mean Law is not a people's oriented? It's actually very people oriented.

    A funny or worrisome article about boy vs girls preferences (and the possible impact of nurture vs nature):
    http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/01...nder-equality/

    Also about hiring, recently in Australia, in the public sector a blind application process was used, so you couldn't tell wether they were male or female, and their racial background, turns out with this method, more men were getting hired. A big no no.

  7. #3187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sallos View Post
    What do you mean Law is not a people's oriented?
    I've been in law since 1988. It's focused on reviewing, writing, editing, managing and coordinating things related to laws and legal procedures; it's no more "people"-oriented than any other portion of Corporate America. The clients bring us their cases and transactions, but after that we spend nearly all of our (billable) time working on all things legal with limited contact with clients. Lawyers, Paralegals, Legal Secretaries, etc., seem to be some of the least people-oriented employees on the planet. The gang consists of passive-aggressive, anal retentive, obsessively detail-oriented, introverted, competitive, Type A workaholic alcoholics. The major skills needed for my field (Paralegal) are: Highly organized, attention to detail, excellent writing and research skills, ability to multitask, ability to work independently, advanced computer skills, ability to work under pressure. I love this job because I DON'T have to work with people (I hate people).
    Last edited by allegro; 08-13-2017 at 02:19 PM.

  8. #3188
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    This is a very good article:

    Column: Why Google was wrong to fire James Damore.

  9. #3189
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    it's all kind of non-relivent, you move where opportunities are and where things move, i for example I don't have a comp science degree mine is in fine art I started in Q.a. for a software company, i learned that 90% of my time was telling developers telling then they were wrong and if I was to be taken seriously i had better learn code and comp science, later as things evolved moved to mobile then security as i sought opportunity and increase in pay, I've worked along side MIT grads Stanford grads all walks of life gender and races, I approach it as my solution might not be the best I can always learn and multiple perspectives and solutions are far better than one, as someone much smarter than me said, " there is no luck only opportunity and preparedness"
    -Louie
    Last edited by Louie_Cypher; 08-13-2017 at 03:42 PM. Reason: same olw song and dance

  10. #3190
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    http://wncn.com/2017/08/14/protester...ty-courthouse/

    Well, this pretty much confirms this year is going to be even more of a shit show than originally thought. It's one thing to debate on whether or not it should of came down, but this happening feels completely wrong. It should have been put in a museum.

  11. #3191
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    this is only going to escalate dumb, dumb Donnie, will do nothing, a.g. who's also a racist, congrats America, you finally pulled you own plug
    -Louie

  12. #3192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Beach View Post
    http://wncn.com/2017/08/14/protester...ty-courthouse/

    Well, this pretty much confirms this year is going to be even more of a shit show than originally thought. It's one thing to debate on whether or not it should of came down, but this happening feels completely wrong. It should have been put in a museum.
    I saw the video. Even the guy playing guitar got aggressive and kicked it (?).

    In other news, the Charlottesville suspect can't afford a lawyer, and the public defender is a relative of one of the victims of the attack.

  13. #3193
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    Quote Originally Posted by onthewall2983 View Post
    I saw the video. Even the guy playing guitar got aggressive and kicked it (?).
    Some guy even tried to punch it, which is incredibly dumb. Talk about asking for a broken hand.

  14. #3194
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    Lots of middle fingers too. Their heart is in the right place, but all that's a bit too much and stupid.

  15. #3195
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    I'm surprised no one has brought up the terror attack in Spain.

  16. #3196
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    I've been watching it on CNN as is my mother on CNN Espanol. So far, 13 people dead and 50 are wounded. ISIS is involved. Fuck these assholes too.

  17. #3197
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    Cars are the new weapon of choice in Europe, we have no guns but we have a lot of cars, there is literally nothing they can do about it, at some point people will have enough of it, given how dark Europes history was in the 20th century I dread to think what this will stir....its already destroying the European Union...its obvious there are systemic structural problems within the EU that they have no idea how to handle the refugee crisis, they had to bribe Turkish dictator Ergodan to stop the flow of refugees, I know these were not all refugees but every terror attack fuels Islamophobia in Europe and cracks the fabric of the EU when its trying to deal with a deep crisis

    Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Baltic States want nothing to do with the migrants, there will probably be a few more of these sort of attacks by years end, do people just sit and watch forever...not going to happen.

    The French Neo Liberal tool Emmanuele Macron whose popularity has plunged at a speed unknown in French history spent his whole campagin talking about building a new Europe and about it being open , he has not taken in one refugee.
    people are just bored of empty rhetoric
    Last edited by Exocet; 08-17-2017 at 10:37 PM.

  18. #3198
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    The wreck of the USS Indianapolis has been found

    In case the name of the ship sounds familiar


  19. #3199
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    And another car has been used as a weapon!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-france-police

    THE FUCKING HELL IS HAPPENING!?

  20. #3200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haysey View Post
    And another car has been used as a weapon!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-france-police

    THE FUCKING HELL IS HAPPENING!?
    Not to minimize the loss of a life, but....

    French officials said the van’s driver, arrested after the crashes, is being treated for psychological problems. The incident is not being treating as terror-related.

  21. #3201
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    As I said on Twitter, my memory is long. I hate Mitch McConnell right now. So much. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/21/mitc...t-ceiling.html

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    Hurricanes suck.

  23. #3203
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    Quote Originally Posted by mostlymad View Post
    As I said on Twitter, my memory is long. I hate Mitch McConnell right now. So much. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/21/mitc...t-ceiling.html
    If we don't raise the debt ceiling, we will be in default, and that will be very very very bad. The Republicans got hammered for not raising the debt ceiling under the pressure of Tea Party idiots.

    https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-debt-...crises-3305868

    Do you mean you hate McConnell because he USED to be against it, with the Tea Party jerks?
    Last edited by allegro; 08-27-2017 at 03:50 PM.

  24. #3204
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    Didn't we have this issue a couple of years ago and at that time it wasn't properly resolved wasn't it?
    I vaguely remember.
    I swear it's like we are stuck in an absurd cycle.

  25. #3205
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziltoid View Post
    Didn't we have this issue a couple of years ago and at that time it wasn't properly resolved wasn't it?
    I vaguely remember.
    I swear it's like we are stuck in an absurd cycle.
    See Wikipedia:

    Depending on who is doing the research, it is said that the US has raised its debt ceiling (in some form or other) at least 90 times in the 20th century.

    The debt ceiling has been raised 74 times since March 1962, including 18 times under Ronald Reagan, eight times under Bill Clinton, seven times under George W. Bush, and five times under Barack Obama. In practice, the debt ceiling has never been reduced, even though the public debt itself may have reduced.

    Congress has raised the debt ceiling 14 times from 2001-2013. The debt ceiling was raised a total of 7 times (total increase of $5365bil) during Pres. Bush's eight-year term and it has been raised 7 times (as of 10/2013 a total increase of $5385bil) under Pres. Obama's term as of 2013 (five years in office).
    The debt ceiling is like your credit card limit. If your limit isn't raised and you use your card, anyway, you're in default. If the U.S. debt is higher than the debt limit, we're in default. Much chaos ensues.

  26. #3206
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    If we don't raise the debt ceiling, we will be in default, and that will be very very very bad. The Republicans got hammered for not raising the debt ceiling under the pressure of Tea Party idiots.

    https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-debt-...crises-3305868

    Do you mean you hate McConnell because he USED to be against it, with the Tea Party jerks?
    Yes. Yes I do. He was right there with them. Now of course, listen to him fucking sing a new fucking tune. The man makes me want to puke.

    And yes, he did always cave, but I heard him, and I watched him use that debt ceiling as a ploy, many times. And he blew his dog whistle loudly, all through Obama's presidency. Contrast that to this new statement that he won't dare let it default.
    Last edited by mostlymad; 08-27-2017 at 06:41 PM.

  27. #3207
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    Nurse handcuffed and put in the back on an unmarked car for protecting her patient from detective unlawfully collecting his blood.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...police-n798021

    My wife is a nurse practitioner, so obviously I find this very upsetting! The officer in question should lose his job, his pension, and should be arrested for breaking the law!

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    Looks like Irma is gonna hit Florida around September 11, 2017.

    http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gtwo.php?basin=atlc&fdays=5

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    Stay safe american friends

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