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Thread: The Feminist Thread

  1. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khrz View Post
    There's an awful lot of extremes, don't you think ?

    When you teach respect to kids, you teach them to respect everyone, sure. But you don't address the subject the same way whether you're talking about sex, race, class, etc. Each instance of that lesson is a different one. Each reason you have that conversation is a different one. You educate your kids on a case by case basis : Fire is dangerous so don't go near the stove again, bleach is poisonous so don't touch that bottle. Broad statements don't work. "Respect every human being" doesn't mean shit to a 5 year old. So yeah, you teach respect to women because you teach that kid that you should respect that woman there, and the others too by the way. That's how it works.

    Also please don't #alllivesmatter in the feminist thread.
    ... and respecting women might be older than our civilisation, but even if we skip the times when it was only because of our instinct, it's still pretty old. Sure, there's no harm in saying that you will do the same, it just sounds mundane.

    That's why I mentioned the respect everything part. Not sure what you mean with that #alllivesmatter stuff, I don't think in blocks, I don't consider ideas something I either have to embrace fully, or flat out reject. I'm aware that everything we discuss here is under the umbrella of feminism, and it's just funny how your knee-jerk reaction when I'm talking about respecting everyone is to gasp "oh no, he didn't!!". If you want less dumbasses harassing women, then like it or not, you and me have to make sure we raise decent people. Overly focusing in just one area can have negative effects later on.

    But that's why I said the most important thing you can do is the friendly approach, whether you are raising be a kid, a teacher, or other indirect way of "raising" or shaping someone. You can doctrine everyone what's good or what's not, he or she will have no idea what the fuck to do, because life is not a math equation, so imo (and parents can chip in to that) the most important thing when they have questions for you, and then you can really hit some educational nails into them.
    Last edited by Volband; 06-09-2016 at 06:56 AM.

  2. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorzelG View Post
    I was only referring to me and my own kids in my comment and doesnt the situation with Brock Turner suggest that boys DON'T get taught to respect women as a matter of course?
    This father really says it well, I think.

    Edit: Here are the U.S. statistics.
    Last edited by allegro; 06-09-2016 at 10:33 AM.

  3. #543
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    i love it when dudes get their just desserts for being douchebags.

    Man sends woman an unsolicited d*ck pic, woman responds brilliantly. Man regrets it.

  4. #544
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    Years ago a pharmacist friend of mine worked near a university and she was so annoyed by student girls who came in for the morning after pill because they'd got drunk and had unprotected sex. The same girls would come in time after time (contraception is free in the UK). She'd have to give them a lecture on how the pill had side effects and was for emergencies like condoms breaking or something, but you have to wonder how much of that could be construed as rape? It's no wonder men are uncomfortable with the idea but there's no way you should be having sex with someone completely insensible.
    Britain has a really terrible attitude towards alcohol and people tend to see it as fault on both sides but there's definitely an attitude that 'well if she's stupid enough to get so drunk no wonder that happens' that almost absolves men of any blame. I don't really know how that attitude can change
    Last edited by WorzelG; 06-15-2016 at 12:59 PM.

  5. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorzelG View Post
    Years ago a pharmacist friend of mine worked near a university and she was so annoyed by student girls who came in for the morning after pill because they'd got drunk and had unprotected sex. The same girls would come in time after time (contraception is free in the UK). She'd have to give them a lecture on how the pill had side effects and was for emergencies like condoms breaking or something, but you have to wonder how much of that could be construed as rape? It's no wonder men are uncomfortable with the idea but there's no way you should be having sex with someone completely insensible.
    Britain has a really terrible attitude towards alcohol and people tend to see it as fault on both sides but there's definitely an attitude that 'well if she's stupid enough to get so drunk no wonder that happens' that almost absolves men of any blame. I don't really know how that attitude can change
    i am battling to define this myself, in the sense that our current culture DOES NOT support women getting drunk or drugging (lack of better word), because it is not safe. at the same time, women should obviously be able to do so without worrying about being taken advantage of. yet, people take advantage. but, for better or worse we live in a culture where getting fucked up off your arse is a type of right of passage. etc.
    there is never any case whatsoever of a woman asking for it, other than she literally walks up and asks you for sex, yet how to wrap your head around the fact that it isn't safe, currently, for women to indulge.
    i was thinking maybe we should have a type of sober brigade that watches over women who are out to get drunk or whatever...but that only feeds back into the reality we have and doesn't address the fact that women should be safe, regardless period no matter what state they are in, etc.
    hamster wheel, man.

  6. #546
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  7. #547
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    Giving up alcohol opened my eyes to the infuriating truth about why women drink

    Maybe women are so busy faking it — to be more like a man at work, more like a porn star in bed, more like 30 at 50 — that we don’t trust our natural responses anymore. Maybe all that wine is an Instagram filter for our own lives, so we don’t see how sallow and cracked they’ve become.

  8. #548
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    Lena Dunham Is A Fuckboy

    A great example of the loud, gross, hypocritical "feminism" of today that seems to only exist for the profit of a few people.


    note: this was written by one of the idiots who pushed Bernie Sanders away from his podium so they could shout about BLM, but it doesn't change the accuracy of the words.

  9. #549
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    Yeah. Many(most?) people who identify as feminists dislike that type of feminism. AKA - White Feminism. It's useless.

  10. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Lena Dunham Is A Fuckboy

    A great example of the loud, gross, hypocritical "feminism" of today that seems to only exist for the profit of a few people.


    note: this was written by one of the idiots who pushed Bernie Sanders away from his podium so they could shout about BLM, but it doesn't change the accuracy of the words.
    See the last few pages of "Random Celebrity Headlines" thread.

    It's not only white feminism, it's whiny useless bullshit feminism.

  11. #551
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    god damn it. now i have to actually go in *that* thread.
    but yes, i put it here because its a better thread for it. Lot's of the people who have issues with feminism today are seeing feminism as displayed by people like Dunham.

  12. #552
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    Yep. Without realizing that those types of voices are absolutely not representative of feminism as a whole.

  13. #553
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  14. #554
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    ^^ The weird thing about that is when I was a girl, nobody "taught" us that; many of the BOYS actually ACTED like that. It was like the boys didn't know how to process a crush, so they acted the opposite. And it made us females HATE them. (I think it was because we were a lot more mature than the boys.)

    When I was in my early-20s, I was with a group of friends in downtown Detroit to see the annual fireworks on the Detroit River. The fireworks were over, the crowd was thinning out, one of my girlfriends and I were waiting for the guys to go get the car, and we were standing in front of a popular concert venue, St. Andrews.

    Suddenly, this guy comes up to me and says, "are you [says my full name]?" Um, yeah. He says, "I'm Marty S___ and I was TOTALLY IN LOVE WITH YOU in Jr High School."

    I was, like, um ... Seriously??

    He says OMG yeah, totally.

    So then the car arrived and I said, well, nice seeing you again, and my friend and I got in and left.

    AND THEN I TOLD MY FRIEND: MARTY HAD TORMENTED ME all during 7th and 8th grade!!! Thumbtacks on my chair, throwing shit at me in class, the whole nine yards. My friend and I laughed for about 10 minutes while our drunk guy friends in the car squeamishly admitted to having done the same stupid shit to girls they liked. I FUCKING HATED MARTY BECAUSE OF THAT SHIT, but too much time had passed and I figured he was probably pretty embarrassed for being such a DICK.

    Not ALL the boys were like that; I think the worst time for that stupid boy abuse shit, really, was 7th and 8th grade ... Puberty.
    Last edited by allegro; 09-13-2016 at 10:34 PM.

  15. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    ^^ The weird thing about that is when I was a girl, nobody "taught" us that; many of the BOYS actually ACTED like that. It was like the boys didn't know how to process a crush, so they acted the opposite. And it made us females HATE them. (I think it was because we were a lot more mature than the boys.)

    When I was in my early-20s, I was with a group of friends in downtown Detroit to see the annual fireworks on the Detroit River. The fireworks were over, the crowd was thinning out, one of my girlfriends and I were waiting for the guys to go get the car, and we were standing in front of a popular concert venue, St. Andrews.

    Suddenly, this guy comes up to me and says, "are you [says my full name]?" Um, yeah. He says, "I'm Marty S___ and I was TOTALLY IN LOVE WITH YOU in Jr High School."

    I was, like, um ... Seriously??

    He says OMG yeah, totally.

    So then the car arrived and I said, well, nice seeing you again, and my friend and I got in and left.

    AND THEN I TOLD MY FRIEND: MARTY HAD TORMENTED ME all during 7th and 8th grade!!! Thumbtacks on my chair, throwing shit at me in class, the whole nine yards. My friend and I laughed for about 10 minutes while our drunk guy friends in the car squeamishly admitted to having done the same stupid shit to girls they liked. I FUCKING HATED MARTY BECAUSE OF THAT SHIT, but too much time had passed and I figured he was probably pretty embarrassed for being such a DICK.

    Not ALL the boys were like that; I think the worst time for that stupid boy abuse shit, really, was 7th and 8th grade ... Puberty.
    yeah, i always gave people shit if i saw them doing that. i've never understood it.

    i actually had multiple girls over the years (starting in freakin' pre-school when this girl would literally CHASE ME AROUND TRYING TO TACKLE ME at recess almost every day...can't believe i remember that) who were mean to me because they liked me. so i don't think it's a gender-specific thing, but it's definitely more rampant in boys than in girls. and given today's social climate, the message on the jacket seems apt.

  16. #556
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    Yeah, I remember thinking all the boys around me either (a) had cooties or then (b) were not interesting to me at all. I know that most of my girlfriends in grade school genuinely hated boys for all kinds of reasons, and I saw a lot of mean activity between the sexes back then that had NOTHING to do with "crushes" but probably more an extension of the sibling rivalry aggression they regularly exhibited at home extended to school.

    My little bro and I fought like crazy, I mean physical wrestling, punching, kicking, chasing, head-locks, hair-pulling, omg. The odd thing is that it made me NOT afraid of ANYONE in school, I just ignored them all, even during the horrible 7th - 12th grade times when certain girls were beating the shit out of random girls in school. Didn't scare me one bit, because I guess I knew I could kick their asses after having survived MY BROTHER AND OUR COMBAT DEN. I avoided aggression, though, because, really, it's exhausting and just stupid.

    But, yes, aggression is a juvenile emotion that is expressed when we can't express our other suppressed emotions. And it's not gender specific.
    Last edited by allegro; 09-14-2016 at 12:31 PM.

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  18. #558
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    i love you, my sisters.
    bless you.

  19. #559
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    @eversonpoe <3
    extra bless, you...for helping me see sisterhood from another perspective.
    thank you for being. (well, thank your folks, right? lol)

  20. #560
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    nvmd.
    Last edited by Lew; 01-23-2017 at 06:42 PM. Reason: da fuq, son?

  21. #561
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    It's been a while since I asked a question which - as is tradition - spiraled out of control, so here I am with a new one, possibly the lightest one compared to the previous ones!

    So, I recently watched The Hateful Eight, and while I am aware that this alone could be a great topic to discuss, as I've seen all kinds of responses ranging from "I turned it off after 1 hour, the fuck is this shit??" to "ANOTHER EPIC FROM MR TARANTINO!!!!", let's ignore what any of us think about the quality of the movie, unless you feel it relates to the answer to my question.

    The question is: do you think the portrayal of Daisy was misogynistic and an opposite step towards feminism?

    For those of you who did not see the movie (no spoilers): Daisy is a bandit/killer with $10,000 bounty on her head (we are shortly after the Civil War) and a bounty hunter catches her. She gets beaten up all the time, rather brutally. Pistol to the head, elbow to the mouth, fist-punched in the face plus some nice comments like bitch or whore.

    Now, I personally would have never even thought about such a question, I just ran into these on the movie's wiki page: A.O. Scott felt the film "mutates from an exploration of racial animus into an orgy of elaborately justified misogyny".[67] Laura Bogart regarded the treatment of Daisy as a "betrayal" of the positive female characters in previous Tarantino films such as Kill Bill.[78] Juliette Peers wrote that "compared to the stunning twists and inversions of norms that Tarantino's other works offer when presenting female characters, The Hateful Eight's sexual politics seem bleakly conservative. Daisy is feisty and highly intelligent, yet the plotline is arbitrarily stacked against her

    I really don't get it, which is probably no surprise for you gals. But seriously now, the movie takes place in a time where everyone but one person calls the black guy a nigger and one of the guy's nickname is The Hangman, because he always tries to catch his targets alive, so he can see them hanged, even though it's more trouble and he gets the same amount of money as if he just shot them. Daisy is also a criminal with a snake tongue, so every time before she gets the life beaten out of her, she mocks someone.

    I don't know, I really loved her character because she was tough and sly as fuck with a hint of insanity, real shame she got no Oscar for that - though at least she was nominated, rip Amy Adams.

    Edit: to be fair, many critics (including women) actually praised Tarantino for showing a more equal and realistic approach when it comes to women, so it's not like it was universally panned; I am just curious what side are you on and why.
    Last edited by Volband; 01-25-2017 at 04:20 AM.

  22. #562
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    So, how about those marches?

    Very proud of everyone who went out there. It was the most hopeful thing that's happened in awhile.

  23. #563
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    I have very, very mixed emotions regarding the demonstrations.

  24. #564
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    I didn't care for what Madonna said and did but then again, I never have. She's always come across as false to me. I think the overall message and presence was strong. I think we needed that. I look forward to the Tax Day one and hope I'm able to participate.

  25. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah K View Post
    I have very, very mixed emotions regarding the demonstrations.
    i will say that the one in chicago was EXTREMELY diverse. it was not a sea of white women. there were also tons of men of different races, teenage girls, little kids. i don't know if chicago just has a stronger sense of unity or what, but the march here was great.

    i totally understand what you mean, though. if it was a black lives matter march, no matter how peaceful, i guarantee there would have been arrests and other issues. so the double standard is disheartening.

  26. #566
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    That definitely isn't my only issue with it though.

    - Their stance that kept changing on sex work, and then actually kind of painting sex work in a negative light
    - Initially allowing the anti-abortion group
    - The cis-centered focus

    Where were all of these people the last few years? Because activism and feminism are fucking worthless if they are not intersectional.

    Overall, I think it was more good than bad, and I hope that everyone who participated STAYS INVOLVED. Not only in issues that personally impact them, but also in issues that don't.

  27. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah K View Post
    That definitely isn't my only issue with it though.

    - Their stance that kept changing on sex work, and then actually kind of painting sex work in a negative light
    - Initially allowing the anti-abortion group
    - The cis-centered focus

    Where were all of these people the last few years? Because activism and feminism are fucking worthless if they are not intersectional.

    Overall, I think it was more good than bad, and I hope that everyone who participated STAYS INVOLVED. Not only in issues that personally impact them, but also in issues that don't.
    no, i totally agree with you. the stance on sex work was particularly upsetting. i didn't know about the anti-abortion group.

    there were plenty of trans-women (including myself) at the march in chicago. i wish i had made the sign i was thinking of ("hell hath no fury like a trans woman scorned").

  28. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah K View Post
    - The cis-centered focus
    Abortion and female birth control are always going to be cis-female centered (not gender) issues.

    The march was a great show of unity, a great family day, but marches with scattered focus that happen once and then "poof" don't really do much (if any) change, unfortunately.

    People go back to their lives of not doing unless somebody hands them something to sign or mail or directions when to show up.

    I like what Whoopie said:

    Last edited by allegro; 01-25-2017 at 10:19 AM.

  29. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    I look forward to the Tax Day one and hope I'm able to participate.
    You could have participated in the Women's one, there were lots of feminist guys there. Also, Madonna is now desperate for attention.

    But, yeah, if there is one specifically about Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, we're flying to fucking Washington D.C.
    Last edited by allegro; 01-25-2017 at 10:21 AM.

  30. #570
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    Yes, I know. I wanted to be there. I was sick throughout that week and wasn't up to going to Chicago.

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