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  1. #31
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    Goldfoot, what's with 8 real songs on Undertow? Flood isn't filler if i understood it correctly

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenAkenobi View Post
    Goldfoot, what's with 8 real songs on Undertow? Flood isn't filler if i understood it correctly
    Oops, I will go fix that.

  3. #33
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    Wow, Goldfoot, what a post! I think we have to define filler. I definitely wouldn't count something like Eon Blue Apocalypse or Parabol filler, those are actually some of my favorite parts of that album. I was referring to the minutes filled up with weird sounds. Mainly towards the end of it. I guess your point still stands though. I like all of the albums, and as I said earlier, I think Lateralus has the best individual tracks. For me personally, Aenima is a stronger album. I guess maybe I wouldn't put 10,000 Days ahead of Lateralus now that I had to give it some thought. They can share the silver medal.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emil Dorbell View Post
    Wow, Goldfoot, what a post! I think we have to define filler. I definitely wouldn't count something like Eon Blue Apocalypse or Parabol filler, those are actually some of my favorite parts of that album. I was referring to the minutes filled up with weird sounds. Mainly towards the end of it. I guess your point still stands though. I like all of the albums, and as I said earlier, I think Lateralus has the best individual tracks. For me personally, Aenima is a stronger album. I guess maybe I wouldn't put 10,000 Days ahead of Lateralus now that I had to give it some thought. They can share the silver medal.
    I'm pretty passionate about Tool's music, hehe. Plus it gave me an excuse to try out the fancy new table function. I actually calculated the time for Lateralus counting Eon as filler, just in case. I mean, it's not necessary, but I love the way it transitions into The Patient. For me I guess there's fillers and then there's segues. Ænima has more filler than segues, while Lateralus has little to no filler (apart from Faaip), and 10,000 Days has tracks that double as filler and segues.

    Ænima - The only two I'd count as segues on this one are Useful Idiot and Intermission. Maybe it's because of how much I've listened to the album, but I quite like how H. and Forty Six & 2 are joined by Useful Idiot. Intermission is just neat and when actually listened to, it is a nice set up for the melody of Jimmy. Message, Die Eier, Cesarro, and Ions are all basically worthless in terms of value to the album. Die Eier is neat in a novelty sort of way, but it's along the lines of what they typically put at the end of the album. I think it's out of place in the middle and it should probably be after Third Eye. I really like this album, but it doesn't seem to be as cohesive to me as Lateralus.

    Lateralus - I'm particularly partial to this album because it helped me out of an extended period of depression. I won't go into that now, but the only thing I'd really call filler on here is Mantra. Well, Faaip is too, but I tend to think of their closing tracks in a different light than their typical filler or segue. I think this is a really great album because all of the songs deal with personal growth, in one way or another. In that way, it has more of a theme than the other albums. Well, maybe not Undertow, but I was never all that fond of Undertow. I mean, I like it, but I don't listen to it nearly as much as the following three.

    10,000 Days - As with Lateralus, there's not much here I would really call filler. The first track that could be called that is Lipan, but I don't think that's very fair. I think it creates a good atmosphere to lead into Lost Keys. With the droning in the background of Lost Keys, I can see people calling this filler, but I think it is a good segue between Lipan and Rosetta. The Lipan Apache are desert dwelling natives, and the chant in Conjuring seems like something that would occur in a ceremony laced with psychadelics. Then Rosetta tells the tale of a drugged out UFO chaser encountering aliens. I think Lost Keys fits nicely in the middle, explaining what happened after Rosetta. Other than that, I can't see what else could be considered filler except Viginti, but I explained my feelings toward Tool's ending tracks.

  5. #35
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    Ænima has some great songs but to me is pretty much ruined as an album thanks to all the filler.

    I wouldn't consider anything on Lateralus filler save for the final track, which I deleted and do not listen to. It might as well not exist on the album for me.

    I don't think 10,000 Days has a lot of filler, even if as far as I'm concerned Rosetta Stoned might as well be because of how much it sucks. I don't find silly music, or music about aliens enjoyable which is why I vehemently anathematize that song. 10,000 days has its moments but those moments do not compare to the highs of Lateralus or Ænima and the stuff dragging the album down is worse than even the most annoying filler on Ænima in my opinion.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfoot View Post
    Lateralus - I'm particularly partial to this album because it helped me out of an extended period of depression. I won't go into that now, but the only thing I'd really call filler on here is Mantra. Well, Faaip is too, but I tend to think of their closing tracks in a different light than their typical filler or segue. I think this is a really great album because all of the songs deal with personal growth, in one way or another. In that way, it has more of a theme than the other albums. Well, maybe not Undertow, but I was never all that fond of Undertow. I mean, I like it, but I don't listen to it nearly as much as the following three.
    What's so damn impressive about the lyrical content on Lateralus is how I find myself going back to it and understanding more and more as the years go by and I learn more about psychology, philosophy, and life in general. I had a few months this spring of drifting off from reality, after taking in way too many new ideas, expanding on my understanding of this life (and beyond), space, etc. A major help in getting back to the surface was clinging to this: "Feed my will to feel this moment."

    I'm sure as I get older, with more experiences behind me, I'll revisist these lyrics and once again see them in a whole new light.

    There are few bands you can say that about.

    I also had a revelation that the people I admire and like listening to, Joe Rogan, Tool, Hicks, all have something in common: Psychedelics! :P

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emil Dorbell View Post
    I also had a revelation that the people I admire and like listening to, Joe Rogan, Tool, Hicks, all have something in common: Psychedelics! :P
    I'd love to hear one of the guys in the band go on Rogan's podcast and talk about 'life and the universe and stuff, man.'

  8. #38
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    the filler track lengths on Ænima add up almost exactly to the length of their "No Quarter" cover (which, admittedly, includes excess silence at the end), which was recorded during the sessions for that album (but then finished and released afterward, obviously; also obviously, this doesn't include the segues that were left off Ænima and used for Salival). NUGGETZ

    [please don't go layer the segue tracks on top of "No Quarter" and then talk about how they make a secret song that works perfectly.]

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfoot View Post
    10,000 Days - As with Lateralus, there's not much here I would really call filler. The first track that could be called that is Lipan, but I don't think that's very fair. I think it creates a good atmosphere to lead into Lost Keys. With the droning in the background of Lost Keys, I can see people calling this filler, but I think it is a good segue between Lipan and Rosetta. The Lipan Apache are desert dwelling natives, and the chant in Conjuring seems like something that would occur in a ceremony laced with psychadelics. Then Rosetta tells the tale of a drugged out UFO chaser encountering aliens. I think Lost Keys fits nicely in the middle, explaining what happened after Rosetta. Other than that, I can't see what else could be considered filler except Viginti, but I explained my feelings toward Tool's ending tracks.
    "Lipan" is most certainly a 'filler' segue, à la those on Ænima (and very reminiscent of the extremely quiet transition between "Bottom" and "Crawl Away"). regardless of any "atmosphere" it creates, it is not necessitated by any other tracks. however, by this definition, "Lost Keys" cannot be filler, as it is a necessary and integral piece of "Rosetta Stoned" (it sets the scene).

    i'm not nearly as solid in my opinion with "Intension" and "Right in Two." i look at them as separate songs, but Tool rarely make songs transition directly unless they are meant to be together...

    slightly off this topic: anyone ever heard the perspective of "Rosetta" being about the tale of someone ODing? i heard it from a friend recently and i really don't think it adds up at all.
    Last edited by seasonsinthesky; 12-07-2011 at 08:16 PM. Reason: i keep thinking of more shit.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasonsinthesky View Post
    slightly off this topic: anyone ever heard the perspective of "Rosetta" being about the tale of someone ODing? i heard it from a friend recently and i really don't think it adds up at all.
    ODing as in the blue-green Jackie Chan and all that is a near-death experience?

    I don't think you can OD on X, DMT, or donuts. I figured it was just a DMT trip.

  10. #40
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    Tool Tour 2012.

    Tool will be playing in Tucson, AZ (Jan 17) and Albuquerque, NM (Jan 18).

    Tickets go on sale (Ticketbastard) on Friday, Dec 16.

    Enjoy, you lucky fucks.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Seaward View Post
    I'd love to hear one of the guys in the band go on Rogan's podcast and talk about 'life and the universe and stuff, man.'
    I guess you're being a sarcastic douche but I would enjoy the hell out of an episode like that.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emil Dorbell View Post
    I guess you're being a sarcastic douche but I would enjoy the hell out of an episode like that.
    Kinda and kinda not. I enjoy the Joe Rogan podcast and watch basically every episode. I just felt kinda corny saying that lol. No doubt that, I would quite enjoy it. I just really doubt any of the Tool guys would really fit in an environment like that.Maybe if their faces were covered ha.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pemulis View Post
    I don't find silly music, or music about aliens enjoyable
    Thus suggests to me that you're fairly familiar with music about aliens, which makes me curious. The only other song that comes to mind for me is Weird Al's Slime Creatures From Outer Space but, as you said, you don't like silly music so I doubt you know that one. I know it's off topic, but what else are you referring to?


    Quote Originally Posted by seasonsinthesky View Post
    i'm not nearly as solid in my opinion with "Intension" and "Right in Two." i look at them as separate songs, but Tool rarely make songs transition directly unless they are meant to be together...
    I see them as going together because Right In Two seems to illustrate how humans behave after becoming self-aware, albeit from the perspective of angels. In Intension, humans "move by will alone." This is very animalistic to me, and suggests that we don't have the ability to think at anywhere close to the level we do now. In Right In Two there's the line, "Father blessed them all with reason, and this is what they choose." Whether you believe God gave us the ability or not, the song is an outsider's perspective of the human race once we had that ability. To me the songs are like a before and after picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Seaward View Post
    slightly off this topic: anyone ever heard the perspective of "Rosetta" being about the tale of someone ODing? i heard it from a friend recently and i really don't think it adds up at all.
    ODing as in the blue-green Jackie Chan and all that is a near-death experience?

    I don't think you can OD on X, DMT, or donuts. I figured it was just a DMT trip.
    Don't forget LSD (blotter), though it takes a lot to OD on that. You can OD on X (MDMA), but I'm not sure about DMT. Also, it's probably easier to do so when mixing all of those.


    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Seaward View Post
    Enjoy, you lucky fucks.
    If that's true, and you don't include a source so I don't believe it as of now, I have no doubt it's going to be basically the same set and show they've done the past...three(?) tours.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfoot View Post
    If that's true, and you don't include a source so I don't believe it as of now, I have no doubt it's going to be basically the same set and show they've done the past...three(?) tours.
    Whoops, sorry about that.

    ...

    According to Ticketmaster, they no longer are playing those shows. The tickets were there all day, but now they're not appearing... Check Fourtheye to see that I didn't make this up.

    Also, keep refreshing this. http://www.ticketmaster.com/Tool-tickets/artist/720703

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Seaward View Post
    According to Ticketmaster, they no longer are playing those shows. The tickets were there all day, but now they're not appearing... Check Fourtheye to see that I didn't make this up.

    Also, keep refreshing this. http://www.ticketmaster.com/Tool-tickets/artist/720703
    Oh, yeah I guess you did say that they were on Ticketmaster, but as they are not there now, that isn't reason enough to believe that it is true. IMDB constantly has wrong information about movies that are in development. I'm not saying Ticketmaster is full of user submitted content like IMDB, but IMDB is a pretty good source and, to my understanding, they are supposed to check their info before posting it. It seems to me Ticketmaster should have the same kind of standards.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfoot View Post
    Thus suggests to me that you're fairly familiar with music about aliens, which makes me curious. The only other song that comes to mind for me is Weird Al's Slime Creatures From Outer Space but, as you said, you don't like silly music so I doubt you know that one. I know it's off topic, but what else are you referring to?
    Well, since we're on a Nine Inch Nails board a good example would be Year Zero. All of the talk about "The Presence", while perhaps not quite the image of alien most people conjure up, it was close enough. I enjoyed a lot of the music on that album but the subject matter was a huge turn off.

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pemulis View Post
    the subject matter was a huge turn off.
    What exactly did you not enjoy about it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Seaward View Post
    What exactly did you not enjoy about it?
    Pretty much all of it, really. Very little of the story resonated with me.

    Concepts albums are pretty hard to do right anyway and as I said I don't find aliens very good subject matter for music. Politics either for that matter. The former comes off as hokey, the latter preachy and I don't appreciate either quality.

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    Though I have to say that it's been quite awhile since the days of my Tool obsession, I do revisit their records from time to time and they'll always be really important, formative records for me. I remember 10, 000 Days being my most anticipated record (it probably still is to this day, matched maybe only by With Teeth or the upcoming A.C. record, but that's for another thread), and like many others, being totally underwhelmed after the first listen. Ironically, it's the one that I find myself coming back to most often now. What I first took to be haphazard or muddled in terms of production I eventually came to love - it's so visceral and dense and unhinged in a way that Lateralus is not. Then there's that whole trance-y, monastic desert vibe (Wings, Intension) that pulls the record into some other place, some deep reservoir of history or memory. Or something.



    Ok, fine. But then there's Lost Keys / Rosetta Stoned. Aliens and acid trips? What the fuck is this? It just seems so disjointed, completely jarring the flow of the record. More than anything, it was MJK's lyrics that I couldn't wrap my head around. As Pemulis and others have said, it all just seems so arbitrary and SILLY. Humor has always been a part of it, sure, but to make this 20 minute (or whatever) meandering gag the centerpiece to an otherwise pretty cool record? Let's try to give them the benefit of the doubt.

    Warning: This is not an attempt to fit Rosetta Stoned into some all-encompassing theory of the unity of 10, 000 Days. It's a disparate record, for sure. But maybe there's a way to think about it so that it doesn't ruin the record, for those of you haters out there.

    Anyone remember the early pre-release press for 10, 000 Days, when the band described it as their blues record, a reflection of the disillusionment that surrounds post-911 America, personal loss, a kind of epitaph or mourning for dead ideals? Think of the kinds of things they'd talk about in interviews before, often in earnest, things like subversive politics, the occult, collective unconscious, etc. If Lateralus represents at least the possibility of transcendence and enlightenment, then I think 10, 000 Days, and RS most radically, turns these ideals right on their heads. The world in 10, 000 Days is (for the most part) more violent, but also more blunt, more cynical and brutal. It's got a sadness, too, beneath it all.

    And then there's the Rosetta Stoned suite, smack in the middle of the whole thing. In place of the old, sweeping intensities and ideas and conflicts, we have stream-of-consciousness schizo-babble, brand names, bodily functions, celebrities. This is a guy who believes he's been offered a profound insight, a privileged position from which he can access the answer to our collective woes. He's so close. But he can't remember what he saw, can't say for sure whether it was even real. The message is lost, or at least, it can't be captured in any coherent or communicable way. He's alone. The pieces don't fit, you could say, and maybe they never did. Could there be anything more at odds with the lofty aspirations of Lateralus than those last lines of RS, repeatedly bludgeoning us with this record's new message? "Don't know. Won't know." It's self-parody, for sure, or maybe self-criticism, a long, level re-evaluation of the kinds of grand sentiments that belonged to more expansive, optimistic times. In this sense it's a serious song, too, and pretty brilliant, at least conceptually.

    It's not hard to see why some fans are turned off. In a real, obvious way, the song can be read as a caricature of the band's fan, eagerly deciphering the latest metaphors and clues, fitting this or that piece into some larger messianic web of meanings. While in reality, he's just fucked up, dreaming, shitting his (figurative?) pants, losing himself in symbols and signs.

    Lots of words spent on a Tool song. And maybe not even a great Tool song, comparatively. Certainly unique in their body of work. But I think there's more that we can say about it than, "they ran out of ideas and wrote about drugs and UFOs". Not that anyone said that, it just seems to be a general sentiment.

    And howdy! Long time lurker, first time poster. Glad to see this place up and running again. And Pemulis, I'm glad to see another DFW nut on board.

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    I agree with pretty much everything Mister Squishy said about Rosetta Stoned. I think it's easily the best song from 10,000 Days and definitely one of Tool's best. To take it at face value and write it off as a silly song about aliens seems to be a huge mistake. Sure, the lyrical content might not be as complex or 'serious' (for lack of a better word) as the rest of Tool's catalog, but I don't think it's simply a song about hallucinogens and aliens. Like any work of art, it's meant to be taken as a metaphor. Tool's other music is usually a complex metaphor for something more simple. I think Rosetta Stoned is unique in the fact that it's a simple metaphor (not simple meaning it's easy to decipher, but simple meaning the way in which the metaphor is articulated isn't as complex as Tool's other lyrical content) for something more serious.

    Or maybe we're just over-thinking it and it's really about one of the guys doing DMT and a recollection of his trip. Either way, it's a fucking rocking song. Lyrics aside, the musicianship on that song is beautiful.

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    The was some talk about fillers before in this thread...

    It's funny because I when I bought Lateralus and 10,000 Days, I couldn't stand the extra lead-in tracks, after two or three listens I burnt my own CD (like I used to all of the time) with those extras subtracted. And to me, man, It was so much better for me. I consider Lateralus and 10,000 both really strong albums, but then again, I am only listening to the songs not the lead-in tracks or fillers. I almost forgot some of the songs you mentioned until someone listed them (Lost Keys, Mantra, Faaip, etc...)

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Squishy View Post
    Though I have to say that it's been quite awhile since the days of my Tool obsession, I do revisit their records from time to time and they'll always be really important, formative records for me. I remember 10, 000 Days being my most anticipated record (it probably still is to this day, matched maybe only by With Teeth or the upcoming A.C. record, but that's for another thread), and like many others, being totally underwhelmed after the first listen. Ironically, it's the one that I find myself coming back to most often now. What I first took to be haphazard or muddled in terms of production I eventually came to love - it's so visceral and dense and unhinged in a way that Lateralus is not. Then there's that whole trance-y, monastic desert vibe (Wings, Intension) that pulls the record into some other place, some deep reservoir of history or memory. Or something.
    This is pretty much how I feel as well. A few months after 10,000 Days came out I sort of just stopped listening to Tool completely, which lasted right up until last week, where for whatever reason I found myself starting to really get back into their stuff. As it stands right now, I'd probably say 10,000 Days is my favourite, with Lateralus still being their overall best.

    As for Rosetta Stoned sticking out in the tracklist of 10,000 Days, I think that rings true with songs off of pretty much every album these guys have ever done... but I find Ticks & Leeches a lot more jarring and out of place on Lateralus than I do Rosetta Stoned.

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    I couldn't agree more about Ticks & Leeches. I recently picked up Lateralus on vinyl but haven't listened to it yet because my turntable bit the dust. Gotta get that shit fixed. The tracklist is slightly different, so I'm interested to see how the balance shifts with Ticks & Leeches being a little earlier. I can imagine it being pretty cool, with DC's crazy triplet part at the end of Schism breaking into the chaos that is Ticks & Leeches. What a beast.

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    ^ methinks you've been misinformed about the tracklist changes — the only change is "Disposition" being put after "Parabola." in fact, "Ticks" opens side C, so you won't be hearing it following "Schism" unless you lift the needle before "Parabol" starts!

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    WTF, Rosetta Stoned is an awesome song... and I love the lead in. It's a song about getting lost on acid with pretty good musicianship, why ask it to be something different? Seems par for the course for a band that's gone psychadelic rock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Seaward View Post
    Tool Tour 2012.

    Tool will be playing in Tucson, AZ (Jan 17) and Albuquerque, NM (Jan 18).

    Tickets go on sale (Ticketbastard) on Friday, Dec 16.

    Enjoy, you lucky fucks.
    Going to the ABQ show (if ticket buying proves successful at least)! At last, someone is actually playing here instead of skipping over NM.

    Local radio promoted the 'announcement' a lot, and tickets will go on sale on livenation they said, pretty sure. Will be checking both sites though.

    EDIT: Livenation and Ticketmaster are merged now? Jesus.

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    Live Nation and Ticketmaster have been merged for quite some time.

    My interested in Tool has waned over the years. I'm interested to hear what a new album would sound like at the very least. I loved 10,000 Days when it came out but I was also 17. It's not that great of an album but I do like Rosetta Stoned. Seeing Tool live was okay but their "fans" made it less than bearable.

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    My love for this band may be irrational, but isn't that the point of art?

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    So, current confirmed dates:

    Tucson, AZ (Jan 17, Tucson Arena)

    Albuequerque, NM (Jan 18, Tingley Coliseum)

    Toledo, OH (Jan 24, Huntington Center)

    Duluth, GA (Feb 8, Gwinnett Arena) (Confirmed by local radio station)

    Strange choice of destinations if you ask me. Going from New Mexico to Ohio in 6 days. It seems like there just has to be some shows in between those two. Maynard must be feeling younger. He just finished the Puscifer tour the other night, now Tool, and then Puscifer is touring again starting February 23rd. Not to mention the APC tour that finished up a few months ago. It's a good time for Maynard fans I guess. Also, once again, enjoy the shows you lucky bastards.

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    Also, Dallas, TX (Jan 20, Verizon Theater) (Confirmed by local radio station)

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