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Thread: The Smashing Pumpkins

  1. #2191
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    Wait so Billy says in those texts “you’re welcome to come play in any capacity you like that you feel up for, even if it’s just two songs a night, and we’ll even get you your own bus to accomodate you,” and then somehow they’re shutting her out? None of this makes sense and it’s a real shame because I was all aboard the OG SP hype train, being too young to have ever had the chance to see them together. Seeing Jimmy with the band in 2015 was mindblowing for me and the full lineup would have been insane. It’s one reunion I feel like everyone would have been game for.

  2. #2192
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleiner352 View Post
    Wait so Billy says in those texts “you’re welcome to come play in any capacity you like that you feel up for, even if it’s just two songs a night, and we’ll even get you your own bus to accomodate you,” and then somehow they’re shutting her out? None of this makes sense and it’s a real shame because I was all aboard the OG SP hype train, being too young to have ever had the chance to see them together. Seeing Jimmy with the band in 2015 was mindblowing for me and the full lineup would have been insane. It’s one reunion I feel like everyone would have been game for.
    Yeah, there's obviously a chunk missing there when they're talking about the new bassist.

  3. #2193
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    At least we know the shows will all be the same setlist in advance. The description of the show being a “Broadway” production feels ridiculous — I know they did that giant orb stuff for Oceania but SP has never felt like a band in need of heavy visuals.

    It’s like Billy Corgan calls a panel of experts before every decision he makes to ask for the best possible recommendations and then says “Okay, I will now do the opposite of everything you all just said” and he’s been doing this for about 15-20 years and in his times of doubt for this method he turns to Alex Jones and Alex insists that he’s “doing the right thing rejecting the globalist’s plans” and then he rents a bus and makes YouTube videos about old people for a month and we all just have to deal with it, all just have to accept that this is life in the pumpkin patch, kids.

  4. #2194
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    Quote Originally Posted by poro765 View Post
    https://www.alternativenation.net/sm...reunion-offer/

    Looks like Billy's not an asshole anymore, people.
    Actually no, Billy is part of the problem. He ruined this whole thing by rushing it and not even having the common decency of actually meeting D'arcy in person. I read a couple of things others have wrote on a certain Pumpkins forum about this that perfectly sum up my own thoughts, so I will quote them...

    "if you really plan to get 4 people together who indeed have not played together in 19 years, and you have the means and schedule to fly around the country all the fucking time (even to tape wrestling tv) -would you not maybe get your fucking ass to michigan and meet your former band mate at least ONCE face to face before you go ahead with your plans? and by ahead I mean get a full package going for the 30th anniversary?

    he never actually bothered to meet her in the past 2 years. but, planned the entire 30th anniversary shit. so what, thought from the get-go "if she agrees to do the steven adler thing, great, her involvement will be on my terms, doing the part I assign to her, if not, plan b anyway, kids gonna buy shirts without her on it, too?"


    "Because this isn't about making things work with the four of them in a low pressure environment, it's about Corgan doing whatever he can to leverage himself back into arenas

    Seriously, why would you not just meet up and jam, go out for dinner, have a good time, maybe book some small club shows or something to test the waters instead of the biggest venues possible?

    Insane way of thinking and I'm glad that D'arcy continues to be possibly the only person in the world who calls him out on this shit"


    "the fishy thing from corgan's part is the photoshoot that didn't inclu.de her.
    i get that they're in LA just working on demo's.... that they needed ONE song, and could get that done without her...
    but the photoshoot (which I bet we'll see final product thursday) is the only thing on corgan's part that irks me."


    What Billy tried to pass off as four old friends reuniting, healing, and playing music again has turned into Billy's rush to cash grab whatever he can no matter what whether they were involved or not. He didn't have to rush this and ruined what could have been something amazing by only seeing dollar signs instead of people. They can all be together as long as it is on his terms and timing. This contract makes this whole thing feel like one big cash grab rather than something natural. I don't get why Billy had to rush this so fast to be a huge event. I wish it was just four people coming together to jam and the rest could have developed later.
    Last edited by neorev; 02-13-2018 at 09:16 AM.

  5. #2195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jord View Post
    So Billy seems pretty reasonable from those messages?
    I have to agree that Billy came across sounding pretty reasonable and accommodating in those too. As far as "offering a GNR reunion deal" and suggesting that she only play for a handful of songs, he was right about this being a very big deal and a make it or break it moment for the band and she has barely played music for the past 18 or 19 years, let alone playing live onstage for 20,000 fans. If you ask me, it's pretty shitty of her to be talking to the media every other hour (seriously, I've lost count of the D'arcy news stories that have popped up in my news feed) and sharing screengrabs of her private conversations with Billy. If there was still a chance of this working out a few days ago, it's gotta be gone by now and she only has herself to blame.

  6. #2196
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  7. #2197
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    Yeah, what I'm getting out of those texts is that he assumed everyone was on board, was being very open and flexible in terms of how many songs she's play, suggested only a few songs a night, because of shit happening with her shoulder and he couldn't stop the machine. Her role was "getting smaller" to accommodate her injury.

  8. #2198
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    In all fairness if Billy is going to act like he never offered her the job then she has every right to show that he’s full of shit.

    I’ve got to admit, we don’t even have an official announcement and this reunion is already more entertaining than anything the guy has done in this past decade, even more than the Siddhartha boxsets. A true showman

  9. #2199
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    I love the Pumpkins, and I honestly do not care at this point who plays bass. I know that puts me in the minority of fans for some reason, but I really don't. I do not understand at all this need for it to be the same lineup from 20 years ago. It's not 20 years ago.
    Last edited by think i'm a fire engine; 02-13-2018 at 09:25 AM.

  10. #2200
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    It's apparently the same bassist he used from the Mason co-tour. I just wish Billy let this developed naturally and didn't go overboard too quick. They don't need to be this big, theatrical, Broadway show, arena band right now. He put too much pressure and tried to rush this whole thing. It sounds like Billy doing the usually Billy shit and he hasn't really grown or changed one bit. Playing the same exact setlist and everything times down to the exact minute is not what the original Pumpkins were ever about. He should have taken this year to simply jam amd rehearse with his "friends" and allowed them the time to just have fun and reconnect and become the unit they once were. But no, nothing can stop Billy's fight for relevance.
    Last edited by neorev; 02-13-2018 at 09:29 AM.

  11. #2201
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    If tickets aren’t $600 and there’s a FL date I’ll probably go to a show but if Billy is doing the whole thing out of a desperate bid to feel relevant enough by his own bizarre set of standards when he should be grateful he’s still a theatre band in an era where so many of his peers aren’t (down to Manson playing state fairs, for fuck’s sake), then it’s frustrating as hell when he wants to act like it’s some good vibes friendfest.

    Seeing him say it doesn’t matter that there’ll always be fans wanting to see them says a lot about his attitude — the guy has some weird myth in his head about his band and believes they should be able to do stadium shows in an era where almost no one can do those, and honestly, who wants to go to one? It’s ridiculous. Their music has always been at its best when it’s been raw, confrontational and intimate and the guy seemed to be embracing that with those In Plainsong tours, and now it’s back to the dream of being some 70s-era arena band. He hates the constant focus on older material so he does an extensive reissue campaign. He hates being held to the image of the old band so he gets a female bassist and Jimmy on drums. He encourages the nostalgic image of the band, then gets pissed at it.

    The guy seems incapable of being happy with what is overall an amazing legacy, even if the last fifteen years have been less kind (and a big part of why is due to his insistence on doing shit as difficulty as possible). He was responsible for a band that inexplicably was the biggest thing in the world, released two instant classics still well-remembered and got away with some of the most indulgent, weirdo shit in the mainstream at the time because of it. A cult debut, two iconic records and niche releases like Adore and Machina being given massive label support is a career anyone should be proud of. People across several generations still listen to and remember his work when most bands get forgotten within a year of being relevant. He’s able to run a hippie tea shop and drive around the desert and never work a day in his life if he doesn’t want to because of it and yet he still has this impossible standard for the band.

    He seems less interested in being some artistically respected musician and more in leaving behind a Kiss-style legacy, which most would regard as an insult and yet he’s openly said as much in recent years. He’s got some of the most raw talent of his generation at what he does but seems totally uninterested in it. He seems less disappointed by the sellout culture of arena rock and more jealous of it, and it’s just lame. If this reunion had been planned out right it could be an amazing moment and instead it’s a dramafest of weird instagram posts and back and forth text messages and internet countdowns. I don’t think he has any idea what he really wants out of any of this, let alone artistically, and that’s why every project is some weird half-formed mess. It felt like he knew what he wanted with Oceania and it’s the only developed thing with its own identity since Machina. It’s baffling and hard to root for and feels like endless amounts of good will getting cashed in on, railed against and squandered project after project.
    Last edited by implanted_microchip; 02-13-2018 at 09:48 AM.

  12. #2202
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    I don't think it's so much that he's not happy with his legacy, but that he wants to eclipse it, which he does not understand is just not fucking possible, and would be a fool's errand even if sell-out arena tours were still a thing that worked in rock and roll land to any but three bands of his generation. He doesn't want to feel trapped by the past - he's not the first artist to dislike kowtowing to fan demand and playing the hits - the fact that he's even doing this at all is amazing - but he's never had good perspective or a clear view on what 'being a respected artist' constitutes. He's tried to cultivate respect as an artist, but because he's so goddamned neurotic and sensitive, all it took was some asshole on the internet going "pick up an electric guitar" to make him shelve a heartfelt project about his hometown. So he conflates respect with fame because he just does not understand that a world where everyone respects everything he does is nothing but fantasy. He can't take criticism and never could.

  13. #2203
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    Alternative Nation apparently conducted a 4-hour interview with D'Arcy which should go up tonight. And her Facebook has again gone missing.

    I'm getting alcohol on the way home.

    And I'm starting my own Smashing Pumpkins. With hookers and blackjack.

  14. #2204
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    MCIS is still my favorite record ever...and it's not even close.

    The talent, writing, emotion, and atmopshere is almost impossible to beat for me. Especially during my teenage years.

    It also helped that the production team was close to perfect, and it was all four of them at their very peak.

  15. #2205
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    Oh BTW, I found the quote from Flood.

    https://tapeop.com/interviews/115/sm...tudio-history/

    Flood: When you watched them live, at that time, during Mellon Collie..., I don't think I've recorded a better band. They were so amazing, but it had to be all four of them there. They all needed each other in different ways. The groove and the feel of the combination of all of them; when they were really on it, nailed it, and knew what they were doing, it was amazing.

    AND

    Billy Corgan: Most producers usually get out of the way with me with guitars. They know that I'm a charging bull there. They don't have a whole lot to work to do with me on the guitar, so one could argue I've rarely been produced on the guitar. Vocally, however, I think I've benefited from working with great producers like Flood, who've gotten the best out of me as a vocalist. I probably haven't done as good a job when I've produced myself.

    (sounds about right)

  16. #2206
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    The same set list thing is ridiculous, unless it's a Pink Floyd The Wall show (or in Billy's case, a MCIS show). Big arena tour + song rotation can very well coexist. See: LITS, Tension, Muse tours.

  17. #2207
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    So D'arcy can be like the Steven Adler of the Smashing Pumpkins, when all is said and done

  18. #2208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    So D'arcy can be like the Steven Adler of the Smashing Pumpkins, when all is said and done
    That'd be better than her not being involved at all. I feel like that ship may have sailed after all of this drama unfolded very publicly 2 days before the announcement, though.

  19. #2209
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    ^
    That. I'm sure it's incredibly unfun dealing with a total egomaniac, but D'arcy's not doing herself any favors by airing the dirty laundry so publicly. It feels kind of gross actually.

  20. #2210
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    from a soundgarden profile in SPIN magazine, 1994



    source

  21. #2211
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    Quote Originally Posted by eversonpoe View Post
    from a soundgarden profile in SPIN magazine, 1994



    source
    Oh my God nothing has changed.

  22. #2212
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    All of this Billy Corgan/D'arcy Wretzky drama has really left an even more sour impression than I had before from the "Billy Corgan show"
    Bill has rubbed me the wrong way for the last couple years already. I used to love the pumpkins, but then his attitude as of recently has come off even more pompous than usual. I don't think I can support this project in anyway now.

    Not like this "reunion" will come to Vancouver anyway. He already swore off Van as being a place that doesn't sell tickets in 2012. He had the show all booked for months and literally 3 days before the show, he just decided to cancel it for "no reason" and then re-routed his tour and did a "pop-up show" in Missoula, MT on the same night that the cancelled Vancouver show was to take place. completely ignored everyone on social media as to what the reason for cancelling the show was, just to schedule a new show in it's place. It's quite clear nobody was sick or injured. He did it for no reason other than the show sold poorly because he over-estimated the attendance level and booked an arena show on the Oceana tour. As an artist that has an obligation to play a show, you don't just cancel it like that without an explanation, only to go play a different city instead. What a dick.

  23. #2213
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    Quote Originally Posted by eversonpoe View Post
    from a soundgarden profile in SPIN magazine, 1994



    source
    I'm sorry folks, but Billy IS an asshole. He's been one since day one.

    Funnily enough, D'arcy is the one who actually calls him out on it. He seriously needs someone to call him out and reel him back in.

  24. #2214
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManBurning View Post
    Not like this "reunion" will come to Vancouver anyway. He already swore off Van as being a place that doesn't sell tickets in 2012. He had the show all booked for months and literally 3 days before the show, he just decided to cancel it for "no reason" and then re-routed his tour and did a "pop-up show" in Missoula, MT on the same night that the cancelled Vancouver show was to take place. completely ignored everyone on social media as to what the reason for cancelling the show was, just to schedule a new show in it's place. It's quite clear nobody was sick or injured. He did it for no reason other than the show sold poorly because he over-estimated the attendance level and booked an arena show on the Oceana tour. As an artist that has an obligation to play a show, you don't just cancel it like that without an explanation, only to go play a different city instead. What a dick.
    Wow, that is gross. I remember that tour rolled through the greater Detroit area, playing the Palace which was an incredibly inappropriate venue for them at the time. I didn't go, but I suspect they had to have had the upper bowl curtained off. They still didn't cancel though :/

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    Billy boy gettin schooled by the great Nick Cave

  26. #2216
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    Wow. The William Patrick Corgan Lollercopter continues to fly very, very high in 2018.

    This is getting as hilarious as that fake Smiths reunion last month. An event of this magnitude, and it's a classic case of WPC Egoveride on full display. I am ceaselessly amazed at how this guy always manages to top himself in the pudwhack department. It's like a bad life skill he just can't get away from..

  27. #2217
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    This thread is giving me lolfluenza.

  28. #2218
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    Rolling Stone: 7 Questions We Still Have about SP's 'Reunion' Tour

    Basically saying what everyone is thinking.

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    This is the one included in the Aeroplane Deluxe boxset? Too bad it's without Jimmy...

  30. #2220
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    It is, but they absolutely destroy without him regardless. The live TAFH performances in 1997 were insane.

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