Is the CD a dead medium? What is the best way to listen to music?

[neorev]

Maybe the guy doesn't like CDs and doesn't have to spend his own money to release his own music on an arbitrary format that he doesn't care for entirely to satisfy a specific group of obsessives that are never happy about almost anything he does anyways

Honestly, Nine Inch Nails is one of the first longtime bands that I know not to release a CD version and is does seem quite strange. And to be honest, I do feel it is a dumb move on Trent's part. CD is still a format people buy and the vinyl fad will fade again like it did before and you'll be left with no physical formats then. I do not want to be forced into a specific format. If you are a successful band like NIN with a dedicated fanbase, you bet your ass you can sell some CDs. Every other band I know is still selling CDs. But in the end, Trent simply doesn't care even when his vinyl mission blew up in his face. This whole experiment of vinyl only proved to me it is not worth it. Will I ever buy a record from the NIN store after this fiasco? No, never. I'd much rather a CD or Blu-ray or 24 bit digital.

Sadly, Trent has turned too corporate and listening to the wrong people. Of course Apple and other digital oriented companies will tell you that physical formats are dying because that's what they want. They are doing everything they can to destroy physical formats because it gives these companies more control over media. It still baffles me that someone like Trent who supposedly cares about quality went to a company like Apple in the first place. It feels more like a desperate latching on, especially after watching Defiant Ones.

[botley]

No offense to the NIN management but it would be good if they at least WOULD ADDRESS these issues to us.

We could wait for that, or we can make some inferences for ourselves.

First off, I suggest taking down that SILLY vinyl statement off the NIN official website.
If the fear is that things get digitized, it's not a vinyl only sale that will prevent this since you can have your LP digitize within 1 hour with, say, any decent turntable.
If the fear is that CDs will get ripped by software, this will not either prevent from content getting uploaded to whatever torrent tracker.
Also, when a digital download is offered, is even more dumb to assume that people won't put up on torrent trackers. This option is even easier and the person don't even need to rip the CD. And I've spotted 2 or 4 trackers with NIN direct downloads being seeded ad infinitum.

TR does not care about any of this and has said so repeatedly. The problem when it comes to physical media is simply (as the vinyl reissue fiasco has amply demonstrated) one of distribution. Apparently, Capitol is going to be distributing Add Violence.

1) Are we getting a NTAE EP on CD, or not?
2) Are we getting a AV EP on CD as well, because I really don't know if I can believe 100% since there is a thread going on about orders that are making buyers crazy.

If you happen to read this and be TR's cousin or distant relative, please take a picture of this post and message him. Thank you.
With all due respect.

There have never been any official announcements about Not the Actual Events coming out on CD, so until there is one, please let's just ignore all unofficial placeholder spots for it on Amazon and other retailers; just assume it isn't happening. Stream it, download it, burn it to CD-R if you want. Or don't. If you've given money to someone who has promised you a CD for this EP, ask for it back.

Add Violence is supposed to be coming out on CD in the next month via Capitol Records, and maybe other markets will pick it up too, who knows... maybe there will be an official NTAE release on CD later, too. Cool your jets until then. Self-releasing it just to get it out on some kind of fan-service timeline has proven to be a huge clusterfuck for NIN, so basically submitting to a record label release schedule is the other option, which is a bottleneck of its own kind.

Welcome to the music business in 2017.

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Maybe the guy doesn't like CDs and doesn't have to spend his own money to release his own music on an arbitrary format that he doesn't care for entirely to satisfy a specific group of obsessives that are never happy about almost anything he does anyways

Buying a CD of an artist you like is "obsessive"? LMAO. I would say plunking down hundreds of dollars on vinyls for instrumental movie soundtracks that you would never listen to in a million years but because it says 'composed by Trent Reznor", you buy it, is "obsessive"

Bottom line is, whether you think CD is dying or not, every big artist still puts their music out on CD..everyone but one...

[botley]

Didn't you get banned for talking out of your ass?

[neorev]

Buying a CD of an artist you like is "obsessive"? LMAO. I would say plunking down hundreds of dollars on vinyls for instrumental movie soundtracks that you would never listen to in a million years but because it says 'composed by Trent Reznor", you buy it, is "obsessive"

Bottom line is, whether you think CD is dying or not, every big artist still puts their music out on CD..everyone but one...

He's got a point.

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Didn't you get banned for talking out of your ass?

So I should get banned for saying Trent should release his music on CD? LMAO okie doke...

[botley]

NIN is releasing Add Violence on CD, the press release from Capitol said it'd be out this month... which would mean most retailers should have them next week. Is there a reading comprehension problem here or are you just trolling us, again?

[Quantum550]

Hi again.

Yes, it looks like Capitol/US will be releasing Add Violence on CD.

Problem #1: According to NIN.com it said: CD available on 1st September.
Problem #2: Trent said "I will say this as a barring act of God" (the following).
Problem #3: "We will make sure that everything that is available, gets available at NIN store first than anywhere else."
Problem #4: - it didn't turn out the way you wanted it to... -

Folk who said the 3 EPs compiled on an album, well, I can't see that happening because none of their songs relate as an album. Unless there is a magic connecting these songs I'm not aware of it yet.
Due to different artwork and packaging, it reinforces that these EPs are separate pieces and will remain that way. Actually they have more value as separate, for the collector, than compiled.

Now, on to the "reverse" tracks on SIDE B of NTAE.
I still did not understand... Are the tracks reversed as in "ORDER" (14, 13, 12) - or - you have to spin the record backwards to listen to it?
(If the last affirmative it is true Doesn't it spin the record backwards is a bit awkward and against the proper use of the turntable equipment?

I can only think that these tracks from The Downward Spiral are directed to new NIN fans. That would be a bait for me to go to this another record...

[Quantum550]

I was simply makig a larger point which is that tbis entire argument of "No one else who is a major artist releases things without CDs" is totally made up. It has utterly nothing to do with anybody's quality of work. A largescale household name has done the same thing but even more extremely with zero physical tie-ins at all and was completely successful while doing so. It really doesn't matter beyond the desire to have a plastic case to sit on a shelf and stick in a car somewhere.

I got you. Your overall point was understood.
It's just that I wanted to add a personal emphasis on what I think of that kind of music.

[Halo Infinity]

Maybe the guy doesn't like CDs and doesn't have to spend his own money to release his own music on an arbitrary format that he doesn't care for entirely to satisfy a specific group of obsessives that are never happy about almost anything he does anyways

I actually didn't think that I'd have any reason to bring up this particular part of this very interview until now. Trent Reznor called CDs ugly little pieces of shit, and that was back in 1994 when CDs were all the rage with absolutely no signs of slowing down yet.

However, I still actually like CDs, but also understand that, aside from what you just said, Trent is also at the stage of the career when he can simply call all sorts of shots he would've killed for back then. As for getting Not The Actual Events the way it was, there are certainly no complaints from my end. I got my physical component, and thoroughly enjoyed the download itself. Will get to Add Violence soon, but am also holding out for the CD releases as well.

And while I haven't been getting into vinyl as of late, I finally understood the angle Trent was speaking of when I examined The Downward Spiral's artwork on vinyl, and then compared the experience to going through my TDS CDs. I felt like it showed me the "bigger picture" of the presentation itself that simply can't be done on CD packaging.

http://www.theninhotline.net/archive...plazm94a.shtml

A lot of it is marketing. MTV is telling you this is what is cool. Listen to what is cool. I think that the whole situation has made music less art-y and put more emphasis on music as a product. If you buy an album today and it has two good songs on it, it's okay. Before, if you bought an album and it had two bad songs on it, well...it's still an okay album. You got your money's worth. I can't tell you how many CDs we get from bands who want to open for us, you've never heard of them so you put it on and the first song is not bad. Then, well, that one sounds like the same song, sounds like that song...with CDs you can instantly hit that little button and skip to the next track. Albums, at least, you had to go to the trouble of moving the needle. With an album you had this big piece of art, something on the inside and the vinyl. You know, it was a cool thing. CDs are ugly little pieces of shit; art's gone. What really made me think about this was discovering a few records I hadn't really listened to, like: Bowie's Low album, or Hunky Dory, Iggy Pop stuff I had missed. You take a record like Low, or Hunky Dory where every song, to me, is awesome, different and challenging. I wish I could write one song that is as good as any song on that album. Then you compare it to what is out today. I hate to think in a retro mindset. You know, "the Beatles were the best thing.." Fuck the Beatles, I hated people who were always going on about the fuckin' Beatles. They're dead. They're ugly now. Get them out of my sight. There isn't much coming out, it seems to me, that has much depth. It's based a lot on what the trend of the second is. And I realize that we are dangerously close to that same thing. Whatever.

[tremolo]

I think Trent is too busy listening to his old friends at Apple, thinking people dont buy CDs anymore..Maybe Justin Beiber or Taylor Swift fans dont buy CDs anymore but knowing how obsessive NIN fans are and how much they are into collecting, its downright idiotic to not put these EPs on CD...It makes zero sense...Its not like hes some struggling indie band or some washed up bad that hasnt sold that many records in the past decade that is cutting losses...It literally is one of the most bizarre things he has ever done, to not release these EPs on CD....so fuck it, i would have gladly paid money for the CDs..instead I will just download them for free off a torrent site and burn em to CD

I think it just doesn't make monetary sense.

It would be different if each release would sell as much as CDs used to.

We (fans) would buy them, but we are not enough people to justify the manufacture, distribution and all costs associated with it.


It's over, the ways and formats that people use to listen to music in 2017 are different. It took the music industry WAY too long to realize that.

Time to move on.

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

NIN is releasing Add Violence on CD, the press release from Capitol said it'd be out this month... which would mean most retailers should have them next week. Is there a reading comprehension problem here or are you just trolling us, again?

this month huh? check amazon. AV went from Sept 1 to Sept 22 to now October 13th....but if you say it will be out next week, I guess amazon is wrong.....Wanna make a deal? If AV comes out next week, I take a lifetime ban,. If it doesnt come out on Cd next week, you gladly take a lifetime ban? Deal?

[Avarik]

The CD is a dead format. New computers omit optical drives. New vehicles omit optical drives in favor of a USB port & bluetooth.

CDs are shitty pieces of plastic with shitty limitations on duration and audio fidelity.

Trent choosing to offer hifi downloads with vinyl purchases is a great idea. You get bigger, cooler artwork on the physical component and a proper studio quality lossless audio download.

[botley]

Hi again.

Yes, it looks like Capitol/US will be releasing Add Violence on CD.

Problem #1: According to NIN.com it said: CD available on 1st September.

Yep, delays still happen even with a major label release. It may not be at every retailer in September, it may take longer for people outside North America to get them, for example. Again, this is how it goes for physical media in 2017.

All you truly fanatical CD-only guys surely have noticed as a general trend that fewer labels are releasing them in a timely manner, because there are not as many stores selling them anymore, and therefore the whole supply chain is backlogged.

Or are you just trolling?

"We will make sure that everything that is available, gets available at NIN store first than anywhere else."

Who are you quoting, here? Reznor stated that vinyl pre-orders from nin.com will ship before they are available elsewhere. That's all.

[neorev]

The CD is a dead format. New computers omit optical drives. New vehicles omit optical drives in favor of a USB port & bluetooth.

CDs are shitty pieces of plastic with shitty limitations on duration and audio fidelity.

Trent choosing to offer hifi downloads with vinyl purchases is a great idea. You get bigger, cooler artwork on the physical component and a proper studio quality lossless audio download.

Yeah, but could Trent possibly offer a separate digital option so I don't have to buy a record in order to get said digital file?

How about he pulls a Not The Actual Events and Add Violence and creates physical components for the Definitive Editions?

I'd love some artsy Fragile or Downward Spiral oriented physical component instead of a record. Trent could just print the art booklet from The Fragile vinyl on its own. I'd buy that. I just don't need a record and don't want to be forced into buying one just so I can get the 24 bit files and I don't want to be forced into going the illegal route.

[botley]

Yeah, but could Trent possibly offer a separate digital option so I don't have to buy a record in order to get said digital file?

Yes?

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

CD is a dead format? So hardcore music fans collect all their music on computers and iphones now?...I guess Joy Division and Cure fans wanna bust out those apple song lists when they wanna listen to Unknown Pleasures or Disintegration....collecting music on computers and iphones etc will be dead within 5 years. Hardcore music fans will take over and demand physical product again. record stores will thrive....at least thats my fantasy....sucks whats happened to technology (movies 2)..oh the memories of hanging out in video stores and record stores for hours as a kid

[ROFLRICK]

CDs are shitty pieces of plastic with shitty limitations on duration and audio fidelity.

16-44.1 is enough to capture and reproduce ANY sound that the human ear can perceive. Additionally, any preservation method that can last longer than the human lifespan (~100 years) isn't shitty. CDs are kind of the perfect medium.

That said, the files released by Trent are great, and can easily be put on CD in full redbook quality. Just use XLD, the same program Trent uses to create the MP3s we get.

[neorev]

Yes?

That comment is in regards to the rest of the Definitive Editions not the EPs. Plus I DO NOT TRUST 7DIGITAL when it comes to 24 bit. I've gotten bullshit 24 bit files that were just standard 16 bit and had to fight to get a refund proving they were 16 bit and not 24 bit. A week later after e-mails and explaining file size and sending pictures I got my money back.

[implanted_microchip]

In one page the discussion has now moved from "He should just release a CD because we like them and how dare you imply some people are too demanding and always unsatisfied, people who buy vinyl are idiots, our wants aren't obsessive, this request isn't niche" to "No one will be using digital files in five years, record stores will be dominant again, we're the true hardcore fans, and why isn't everything available in the very specific niche version of a format that I want it in at all times forever and always, even if it's almost exactly the same as the other version it's available in."

[botley]

Help Me I Am A Troll

[ninsp]

CD is a dead format? So hardcore music fans collect all their music on computers and iphones now?...I guess Joy Division and Cure fans wanna bust out those apple song lists when they wanna listen to Unknown Pleasures or Disintegration....collecting music on computers and iphones etc will be dead within 5 years. Hardcore music fans will take over and demand physical product again. record stores will thrive....at least thats my fantasy....sucks whats happened to technology (movies 2)..oh the memories of hanging out in video stores and record stores for hours as a kid

Collect vinyl for physical.
Digital files for everything else.
CD is a dead terrible format.

[Swykk]

Forget for one minute that CDs sound better than vinyl when mastered properly (STOP with the warmer sound schtick. Your weird beard grows three sizes when you try that inane argument).

Here's why I do and will always prefer CDs: They are smaller and easier to store. I have every available NIN release on CD (among hundreds of other CDs) so this is my preferred method of collection that I have invested in. I can listen to an entire CD on the go or rip the files on to my computer and throw them on my phone. I don't have to sit in a room with an outdated cumbersome record player to hear an album. I work, I go out with friends...I don't have the time. And yes, not to beat a dead horse and kick the hornet's nest (again) but I believe vinyl is the dead format that hipsters revived and now it's just accepted. Even I accept it more than I used to. I used to be a lot angrier about it but now it's more of a "Whatever you are into is fine. Knock yourselves out. It's not hurting me." Except now it kind of is. What's troubling is that TR seems to be anti CD now which sucks for me and other fans who really would like to buy things like the new EPs (which yes, I preordered on amazon but keep getting emails telling me they're delayed) and ESPECIALLY Fragile: Deviations, which wasn't even an option.

You vinyl folks get to have your niche.

Should those of us who prefer CDs for one or all of the reasons listed above just go fuck ourselves and start our collections over? No fucking way. Especially for a format that simply isn't a trade up.

[Canuckle]

I personally cannot press vinyl, but I can burn CDs.

The vinyl resurgence and CD decline (while partly due to hipsters like me who like to make the music listening experience a little more interactive, albeit cumbersome), ends up being more about the production of that format. One can be done by an individual through a little elbow grease; the other needs to be produced in mass quantity at very specific plants that specialize in creating that format.

So in that sense, I get the omission of a CD format. TR is giving you the tools to make your own CDs (for the most part). The one thing I can get behind though, is the frustration around the inability to purchase the albums digitally, outside of a physical component or vinyl (looking at you TFDE...).

Just from a product perspective, if you are going to remove CDs, I think you should make it easy for them to support you through a purchasable high-quality digital download so people can make their own CDs. Obviously there are costs I do not know about so those could be prohibitive...

[Quantum550]

16-44.1 is enough to capture and reproduce ANY sound that the human ear can perceive. Additionally, any preservation method that can last longer than the human lifespan (~100 years) isn't shitty. CDs are kind of the perfect medium.

YOU ARE THE BOSS! Yep. I agree.

I see some people are on the verge of rage here, actually putting their money where Reznor's mouth is.
It is with lamentation that I receive the news that Reznor hates CDs.
I was so glad when they became standard - no more white noise, no more cracks or pops, no more needle replacement, no more swapping sides, no more turntable speed quirks.
I think the artwork could still be the same (large) or as a book like "a-ha's hunting high and low 30th anniversary edition (2015)". Blame the jewel case creator.
I still have CDs manufactured back in 1983, that are as reflective as a mirror and you can all do an AccurateRip on them, without any single problem.
How come vinyl is superior? No way. If I had my vinyls from back 1990, I'm sure 99% of them would be 3-5%, warped by now.
And I have analyzed the mastering for 2017 Definitive versions: They removed the treble and cranked up the overall loudness FURTHER... they are less dynamic even on vinyl.
Weren't they supposed to be better? That be the case, I would run after a new turntable. But no.
For what is worth, the 1994 master of the The Downward Spiral is still the proper "master" to listen to, proper dynamics and all. Even being a very loud (to its time) and intentionally distorted sometimes.

Addressing folk about what I quoted, well...
I deleted the email. So I don't know. AFAIR, it said every "PRODUCT" announced would be available @ NIN.com first.
Unless I am really wrong about that email...

Cheers

[botley]

You are. And putting quotation marks around something you didn't actually quote is poor form.

Here is a real quote (emphasis mine):

"DEAR NIN.COM VINYL CUSTOMER, (...)
WE ARE TAKING ALL MEASURES AVAILABLE TO MAKE SURE ANY PREORDERS FROM NIN.COM ARRIVE IN YOUR HANDS BEFORE THEY ARE AVAILABLE ANYWHERE ELSE. I KNOW HOW FRUSTRATING IT IS WHEN THIS ISN’T THE CASE (LIKE WHAT JUST HAPPENED WITH BEFORE THE FLOOD). I ASSUMED WE ALREADY HAD THIS PRACTICE IN PLACE, I WAS INCORRECT."

[Haysey_Draws]

I for one can't wait for the Mini Disc resurgence...only me? Ah well.

I still like CD's (it's the format i grow up with) but get why everyone has gone digital (i still have a fear of hard drive crashes so it's all backed up...albeit on another hard drive) and the appreciation for vinyl and it's art work.

...in the end there was nothing to add with my comment, good day to you all.

[Avarik]

16-44.1 is enough to capture and reproduce ANY sound that the human ear can perceive.

This is incorrect.

Trent also knows this is incorrect because he's releasing higher fidelity files than 16-44.1.

[clarktrent]

Trent also knows this is incorrect because he's releasing higher fidelity files than 16-44.1.

Your statement is somewhat true, in a way. He's recording with the Nyquist Theorem in mind; recording at 24/88.2 to give headroom for perfect 16/44.1 compression. He's most likely releasing the master WAV files in order for fans to have a perfect archive copy that can be converted to whatever format you want without fear of a bad encoding. Or just to get audiophile placebo money.

[Avarik]

16/44 is for cell phones and earbuds, car stereos and portable bluetooth speakers.

For those with a better setup, there are hifi downloads.