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  1. #3241
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    Full auto, semi auto. Who really gives a fuck?.. it's more auto than anyone even needs end of fucking story.

  2. #3242
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    @allegro - I am going to say that the weapons I heard were not full auto. If you listen, the rate is not consistent as you would expect with a full auto. You hear it sort of ramp up/down in speed. It was probably him "bump firing" off his shoulder or whatever. Maybe a crank?

    See this video for audio (this one doesn't have any people in it, so its safe)
    https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video...EK0mzBJrh5.mp4
    Dunno man what I heard on TV sounds like full auto to me; my husband commented that it sounded like what we used to hear with Vietnam coverage on TV every night, and those were M16s. It’s a really familiar sound to us per that. I’m sure we’ll get more info but even the cops there said full auto. They’re yet to say if it was modified semi-auto or actual auto. He evidently had ten guns, most of them rifles (which is how he was shooting people 3/4 mile away), and full auto enabled him to shoot nearly 600 people in a relatively short period of time.

  3. #3243
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    You are dramatically overestimating what it takes to build technology that is over 100 years old. Semiauto isn't a huge hurdle either. I can build a semiauto in my basement and all I need is the tooling that I can fit in a backpack.

    It needs to be said that we still don't know how his guns were sourced or if they were actually full auto. There are a variety of ways to fire a semiauto like that but it creates a pretty erratic destination for the bullets.

    I’ve fired semi auto many many times and I can’t figure out how I could pull a trigger over and over and over THAT quickly. I’ve never TRIED because the ranges I’ve gone to don’t allow that. But I still can’t grok it without some kind of mechanical assistance or cheat of some kind. He most likely modified straight semi auto high caliber light-weight rifles.

    This guy was a licensed pilot, has owned two planes, was an otherwise normal dude with zero politics or religion, except he wasn’t the most social guy. I’m guessing dementia.

    Edit: wait, the guy had CAMERAS in the hall? I guess it took over an hour for the cops to find him, and he was already dead when they stormed the room.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-02-2017 at 02:11 PM.

  4. #3244
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  5. #3245
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    emphasis for multiple posters
    I think it's a pretty innate human desire, when something senseless like this happens that isn't from a natural disaster or natural causes, to want to know "why." It just human nature. It happens, it's always happened, it's always going to happen.

    I was just telling G that I remember (as I've stated on this board, before) being afraid to go to a McDonald's for, like, A YEAR after the San Ysidro McDonald's Massacre in 1984.

    That shooter had:

    "a 9mm Browning HP semi-automatic pistol, a 9mm Uzi carbine, a Winchester 12 gauge pump-action shotgun, and a cloth bag filled with hundreds of rounds of ammunition for each weapon."

    Within a week after that, I went to the nearby McDonald's for lunch during work, and sat near an exit and mentally prepared an "escape" route. Because seeing something like that affects everybody. But, here we are, 33 years later, and it just gets worse, we're used to it, now, really.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-02-2017 at 03:48 PM.

  6. #3246
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    I'm on a tour with another major country artist right now, and we were just finishing our show when this news broke. We're all thankful that our friends and colleagues on the crew made it out safely (albeit scarred for life), but we're also absolutely gutted that someone would do this and our hearts ache for the fans who don't get to go home. As it is, we already had daily emergency plans emailed to us so we knew exit locations, meeting points, contacts, etc, but already we're being told that things will be changing for the remaining shows on our schedule.

    I won't speculate on motive or anything like that. But what I do want to ask is why are all the news networks on this and only this now? This was a horrific, tragic event. But there's news in the rest of the world (including at home) that is now being completely ignored on TV. Why? So they can show the same YouTube clips over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

    No new developments. No new announcements. Literally just repeating themselves ad nauseam. It's like these anchors have a fucking erection for this shit. I get it. It's important to cover. But sometimes when you don't have anything to say, try to talk about other things that matter instead of repeating yourself for hours on end.

  7. #3247
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    I still don't understand the entire response of the crowd though
    What's not to understand? It was the end of a country music festival. There were a LOT of drunk people there. People act / react in strange ways when they're drunk. It really doesn't go any deeper than that.

  8. #3248
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    What's not to understand? It was the end of a country music festival. There were a LOT of drunk people there. People act / react in strange ways when they're drunk. It really doesn't go any deeper than that.
    I think there are several factors, here:

    1) Lots of people there have never heard the sound of machine-gun or rapid-fired guns, even on TV, and they just couldn't connect the dots because it wasn't in their experience (I've heard "fireworks" LOTS of times and frankly it NEVER sounded like that, but when sound is bouncing all around the buildings and people never saw war coverage or war movies, it probably doesn't connect);

    2) I saw some people on TV saying they were instinctively looking up toward the Mandalay Bay and saw "green lights" coming out of a window, but the lights weren't matching the sounds, and they didn't put two-and-two together until much later (that light travels much faster than sound);

    3) Yes, and add a LOT of beer to all of that. It may be why the shooter waited so long, ugh.

    Also, I guess there was a big fence surrounding all of them, like most festivals, so they were trapped and had to climb over fences to get out, so the shooter was easily just shooting fish in a barrel. Idiot news commentators saying "he must have had tremendous aim" ... wtf, no, he had over 22,000 people locked in a giant pen and he had high-powered rifles with ammo that could travel over a mile, so he just needed to spray a bunch of bullets, he probably could have worn a fucking blindfold and shot a shitload of people.


    @DigitalChaos , yeah, avoiding crowds has been my solution for a while. We go to CLASSICAL outdoor concerts, now, and they're searching everybody's bags for pressure cooker bombs. Really old people there don't get it, this is totally new to them; but we've been getting frisked and practically getting cavity-searched at club shows for many years. It's the world in which we live.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-02-2017 at 04:23 PM.

  9. #3249
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalChaos View Post
    Also, Looks like his dad was on the FBI most wanted list decades ago, if you believe that has any influence on the resulting children.
    Nearly SIXTY years ago, I think this is just a dopey red herring.

    Now it ends up this shooter IS A MULTI-MILLIONAIRE real estate investor.

    Okay, so he did use a bump-stock device to mimic full-auto.

    G is saying that the TV is reporting that the guy had TRIPODS for the guns.

    http://www.kwch.com/content/news/Isl...449071193.html

    "Guns & Guitars general manager Christopher Sullivan said in a statement Monday that 64-year-old Stephen Craig Paddock showed no signs of being unfit to buy guns."

    1:25 p.m.

    A brother of Las Vegas shooter Stephen Craig Paddock says he was a multimillionaire who made much of his money investing in real estate.

    Eric Paddock told reporters Monday in Orlando that his brother was also an accountant for many years.

    He was not aware of his brother having any recent financial difficulties.

    Stephen Craig Paddock recently sent a walker by mail to his 90-year-old mother.

    The brother says the shooter collected coins when he was a child.

    Police have said the suspect killed at least 58 people in the worst mass shooting in recent U.S. history.
    I guess police also found ingredients for bombs in the guy's car.

    I just wish we could grok this guy's motive, he doesn't fit ANY profile at all.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-02-2017 at 06:15 PM.

  10. #3250
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    Potential actually helpful gun control legislation could include: No more gun shows. No sales over the internet. Increase the waiting period. More effective and standardized background screening, including private sales. Mental health screening. Limit the number of firearms a person can own. No more hollow tip or other specialized bullets. No more concealed carry. Limit all magazines to 10 bullets or less. Mandatory insurance. Mandatory licensing. Strictest controls possible on guns that self-feed or are semi-auto. Possible GPS tracking that calls LEO if tampered with.

    Anyway, that's the dream board. I'd be happy with 1/10th of that, some sort of actual shift instead of toothlessness. Just something, like with healthcare, that brings us up to speed with the rest of the developed world.

    Conservatives are going to have to get over this "too soon to talk about it" garbage.

  11. #3251
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    I agree with some of that, but no concealed carry hurts people who are trying to legally protect themselves. And mental health screening is overly broad and would need to be narrowed down. Limit to number of guns owned makes sense to ME but these collectors won’t like it. Too hard to please everyone, that’s for sure. I do think waiting periods and training should be mandatory but that wouldn’t have stopped the Vegas shooting, nor would mental health screening. I HATE internet sales and private sales. But this guy bought his guns legally at gun stores. I don’t know an answer. “Ban guns” is about as possible in this country as banning obesity.

  12. #3252
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    In the videos I've seen (and heard), the shooting starts while the music is still playing. So I've tried listening to the audio only and if I had been in that audience, I would have probably thought that the first couple of seconds of the shooting was a snare drum roll because that would have been the closest sound I could associate with that particular gun fire. I've never been around guns in my life so I don't know what they sound like in real life (I know what they sound like in films and on tv though).

    It's now evident that this was a very carefully planned event. As to the "why": I don't believe there will ever be a "satisfying" answer to "why". Whatever was going on in this person's mind would make no sense to us anyway.

    I've heard someone mentioned the 1966 University of Texas tower shooting on CNN and what's interesting about it is that the shooter, Charles Whitman left documents behind implying he did not know "why" he was doing it, just that he "had" to do it. He even went as far as asking for an autopsy to be performed on himself. Turned out he had a small brain tumor that may or may not have contributed to his actions.

  13. #3253
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    Quote Originally Posted by marodi View Post
    I've heard someone mentioned the 1966 University of Texas tower shooting on CNN and what's interesting about it is that the shooter, Charles Whitman left documents behind implying he did not know "why" he was doing it, just that he "had" to do it. He even went as far as asking for an autopsy to be performed on himself. Turned out he had a small brain tumor that may or may not have contributed to his actions.
    Wow, that’s really interesting.

  14. #3254
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    Sarah Fuckabee Sanders today repeated an oft-repeated bunch of bullshit about Chicago:

    "I think if you look to Chicago ... they have the strictest gun laws in the country. That certainly hasn't helped there."
    Except WE DON'T HAVE THE STRICTEST GUN LAWS, NOT EVEN CLOSE. DIDN'T YOU GET THE FUCKING MEMO???

    Chicago's gun ban was overturned in 2010 by the SCOTUS Heller decision as well as the McDonald vs. City of Chicago SCOTUS decision.

    See this.

    And Gary Indiana is less than a 25 minute drive from south Chicago; Indiana has REALLY loose gun laws.

    So, really, people, if you're gonna use Chicago as an example, think again. The newest FBI stats on the most dangerous cities in America don't even have Chicago in the Top Ten. Because per capita is important.

  15. #3255
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Sarah Fuckabee Sanders today repeated an oft-repeated bunch of bullshit about Chicago:



    Except WE DON'T HAVE THE STRICTEST GUN LAWS, NOT EVEN CLOSE. DIDN'T YOU GET THE FUCKING MEMO???

    Chicago's gun ban was overturned in 2010 by the SCOTUS Heller decision as well as the McDonald vs. City of Chicago SCOTUS decision.

    See this.

    And Gary Indiana is less than a 25 minute drive from south Chicago; Indiana has REALLY loose gun laws.

    So, really, people, if you're gonna use Chicago as an example, think again. The newest FBI stats on the most dangerous cities in America don't even have Chicago in the Top Ten. Because per capita is important.
    Yes. There are gun shows and shops that purposely camp on the IN state border.

  16. #3256
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    Quote Originally Posted by polski View Post
    Yes. There are gun shows and shops that purposely camp on the IN state border.
    And strawmen purchasers buy guns at Indiana gun stores. Easily. And in Wisconsin, too. And southeast Wisconsin is like a nearby neighborhood of Chicago. Our Metra line goes to Kenosha.

    I suppose this discussion should be in this other thread.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-03-2017 at 12:38 PM.

  17. #3257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
    Thousands of Spanish riot cops are blocking Catalan voters from casting their vote at the referendum for independence, all across Catalunia. Catalan firemen try to protect the people. Things are getting very intense, at the heart of Europe.]

    I'm amazed at how badly the Spanish government have shot themselves in the foot. There has been a MASSIVE strike today in Catalonia, I worry things have taken a turn for the worse, I never thought the Ukraine situation would get as fucked as it did...if Catalonia just had the stupid referendum I'm fairly certain they would have remained....Spain would have come out looking way better.
    However I do get Spanish concern, if Spain lost Catalonia they would loose a huge chunk of their economy, the richest part of the country, and about 20 percent of their population.
    I'm convinced the only reason the UK government gave Scotland the referendum is because Scotland is of much smaller importance to the UK.nobody lives there only about 5 percent of the UK population, it makes a small fraction of our economy, if we lost Scotland it really would not make much difference at all, we would just have to find somewhere else to store our nukes and we wouldd look fucking tiny on the map, but geographic size has never really been much of an issue for the UK. in terms of money.

    Spain is a relatively new democracy too shit like this reminds me its only been 40 years since it was a fascist dictatorship, they solved the Galician crisis, but this seems different
    Last edited by Exocet; 10-03-2017 at 04:58 PM.

  18. #3258
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    Good Boy - Bad Bomb Sniffing Dog

    One particular quote from this story is insane though...

    Dogs in the corps have to be able to sniff out 19,000 explosive scents which they learn in an intensive 10-week training program, with 10 tests at the end.
    19,000 kinds of explosives?! WHAT?! I didn't even know there were that many things that could go boom. No wonder that pupper didn't want anything to do with this.

  19. #3259
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  20. #3260
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  21. #3261
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    Look how quickly the media and Trump labeled this man a terrorist. Has the Vegas shooter even been acknowledged as a terrorist yet? Or is he still just a “lone wolf?”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachy View Post
    Look how quickly the media and Trump labeled this man a terrorist. Has the Vegas shooter even been acknowledged as a terrorist yet? Or is he still just a “lone wolf?”
    The Vegas shooter is seen as a lone wolf, the act itself in Vegas is very much like a terrorist attack, but it is more looked at as the shooter was deranged. It is changing things here is Vegas, whenever somebody comes to Vegas and is told about some ridiculous rule that a casino has, it is because somebody somewhere at sometime did something for that rule to become relevant. My guess is for the New Year Eve celebration here, Vegas is going to have security up the ass more so then it already has.
    Take today for example Halloween did you know, you can not wear a mask in a casino, the reason for this is casinos are just like banks and you wouldn't wear a mask in a bank. That is why Vegas has never been the go to place for Halloween, but Los Angeles is only 300 miles down the road and Los Angeles has some of the best Halloween events in the south west.

  23. #3263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachy View Post
    Look how quickly the media and Trump labeled this man a terrorist. Has the Vegas shooter even been acknowledged as a terrorist yet? Or is he still just a “lone wolf?”
    He yelled "Alla akbar" (per witness accounts) and left notes in the truck relating to ISIS.

    However, he had a shitty lightweight Home Depot rental truck, and he had a pellet gun and a paint gun.

    He's also from Uzbekistan and speaks Russian and English, so it's likely he learned this stuff online. Or something.

  24. #3264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Midnight View Post
    The Vegas shooter is seen as a lone wolf, the act itself in Vegas is very much like a terrorist attack, but it is more looked at as the shooter was deranged. It is changing things here is Vegas, whenever somebody comes to Vegas and is told about some ridiculous rule that a casino has, it is because somebody somewhere at sometime did something for that rule to become relevant. My guess is for the New Year Eve celebration here, Vegas is going to have security up the ass more so then it already has.
    Take today for example Halloween did you know, you can not wear a mask in a casino, the reason for this is casinos are just like banks and you wouldn't wear a mask in a bank. That is why Vegas has never been the go to place for Halloween, but Los Angeles is only 300 miles down the road and Los Angeles has some of the best Halloween events in the south west.
    Pretty much every liquor store in the Chicago area has signs on the front door saying you're not allowed to wear a mask inside the liquor store. Which makes sense but it's still hilarious every time we see it at Halloween.

    The FBI defines terrorism this way: https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/terrorism

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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Pretty much every liquor store in the Chicago area has signs on the front door saying you're not allowed to wear a mask inside the liquor store. Which makes sense but it's still hilarious every time we see it at Halloween.

    The FBI defines terrorism this way: https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/terrorism
    Okay so maybe I should rephrase that the Las Vegas shooter has not been found to have an affiliation with a terrorist organization. On a more humorous note it is funny to see people come to Vegas with elaborate costumes such as a Stormtrooper from Star Wars carrying their stormtrooper helmet in their arms through the casino. Its funny and sad at the same time funny to see a costume that has a threatening demeanor (Darth Vader as well) with a person wearing it that doesn't look threatening in the least. Its sad because this person spent a lot of money on a very cool costume and it looks so lame when they are not wearing the helmet.

  26. #3266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Midnight View Post
    Okay so maybe I should rephrase that the Las Vegas shooter has not been found to have an affiliation with a terrorist organization. On a more humorous note it is funny to see people come to Vegas with elaborate costumes such as a Stormtrooper from Star Wars carrying their stormtrooper helmet in their arms through the casino. Its funny and sad at the same time funny to see a costume that has a threatening demeanor (Darth Vader as well) with a person wearing it that doesn't look threatening in the least. Its sad because this person spent a lot of money on a very cool costume and it looks so lame when they are not wearing the helmet.
    Yeah well, I guess they should have checked the rules first, eh? Casinos have a ton of money in there, the rules make sense.

    And it's a good rule to not be able to walk into a liquor store while wearing a mask -- be it Halloween or Ski -- but it's still funny to me every time I see these signs on the door at Halloween, mostly because I think "who the fuck would be stupid enough to wear a mask into a liquor store unless you're holding the place up?" but then I remember: lots of fucking stupid people out there.

    On the other hand, this happened the other day in our nice quiet somewhat-affluent neighborhood, all the perps were wearing masks: https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/hi...d-at-gunpoint/

  27. #3267
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    This is a pretty big deal. Anybody else following this?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-zi...-idUSKBN1DE1NG

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    Computer glitch leaves American Airlines without any pilots for Christmas

    https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/29/...ation-december

    Holy shitballs.

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    I heard the tail end of that report on NPR last night and didn’t catch the airline name. Shit, I was going to book my flight today on American. Small hometown airport, limited airlines service the airport. Maybe I’ll be driving this year....

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    In the "gee, I'm shocked. No really." category:

    Putin says he'll run for new 6-year term as Russian President

    Reuters on MSN.com · 1h

    Vladimir Putin announced on Wednesday he would seek re-election in March 2018, as opinion polls show he should win comfortably.

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