2018 Midterm Elections - The Aftermath [Archive]

Patrick_Nicholas

05-01-2018, 08:52 PM

I didn't see a thread for this. It's important to vote for your state's senators and representatives, especially if you wish to combat the Trump administration. Don't assume that only the Presidential elections are important.

If you don't know who's representing your district, go here. https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative

My representative is Joseph Crowley and my senator is Kirsten Gillibrand. Both of them are Democrats. I will look into them and who they're running against later, but I'll post them here so I can remember them. There are currently four Republicans running against Kirsten, but none of them have Wikipedia articles. I'm pretty sure my state (New York) will keep its incumbent Democrats, but it's best to keep an eye on them just in case.

Anyone here following their representatives/senators and who they're running against?

sick among the pure

05-01-2018, 09:07 PM

I am in NY, so I am excited to see if Cynthia Nixon can beat Cuomo for governor in the primaries.
I personally like using ballotpedia.org to see who is running for what elections on what days for my city (don't have to remember district numbers, just type in city and state, and it'll give a list of elections you can take part in, when, and who is running for which party).

Maybe sure you are registered to vote, and if your state doesn't do open primaries, that you're in the right party to be able to vote in primaries. I know a lot of people who want to be green/ind/other to help their numbers, but are then locked out of primary elections.

Research, know what's up, prepare, and vote. Vote every time voting can be done. Vote all the time.

allegro

05-01-2018, 10:19 PM

I’m in the Illinois 10th Congressional District, Democrat Brad Schneider is the incumbent, Republican Doug Bennett is the challenger. Republican Mark Kirk was our Representative for a long time, but he was a pretty moderate Republican at the time, pro environment, etc. Bennett is a Trump supporter so I just don’t see him winning up here on the North Shore.

Louie_Cypher

05-02-2018, 07:13 AM

allegro

05-02-2018, 10:24 AM

kind of curious i try not to paint things with to broad a brush i spent a little over a week in downtown Indianapolis for eli Lilly one thing surprised me was most people running for seats were running on a pro trump platform, realize Chicago is different than Indy but is that also the case there? thought about gong into Chicago but i rarely rent a car was also sup prized at the lack of public transit.
-Louie

Indianapolis is 3 hours from Chicago so public transportation to/from Chicago isn’t possible. Indiana is way more Republican in general than Illinois. And the City of Chicago is pretty Democrat, natch. Trump hates Chicago because UIC protests forced him to cancel his rally during his campaign.

ryanmcfly

05-02-2018, 12:43 PM

Ideally, Beto O'Rourke will beat Ted Cruz. I'm sad because he spoke at the university i went to a couple weeks ago but i was working. Really hoping I can see him speak soon.

Mantra

05-02-2018, 03:43 PM

Minnesota is gonna be so hellish this election cycle.

Our governor, Mark Dayton, isn't seeking another term, so we'll be dealing with the battle for his seat. It makes me nervous, cause Dayton's actually been pretty good to us. I'm hoping that we'll manage to replace him with someone who's at least as good as him. Right now, he's the only thing stopping the dogshit Republicans in the state senate (who currently hold the majority by ONE seat) from defunding and totally ruining our whole state. On top of that we now have BOTH senator seats up for re-election after the Al Franken thing. Originally it was only going to be our other senator, Amy Kloubachar, who was up for re-election. Honestly, I think her seat is pretty safe. Franken's seat wasn't going to be up for reelection until 2020, but his resignation changed all that.

So yeah. The Governor's seat and BOTH senator seat are in play this November, and even though we tend to lean blue somewhat, we're definitely still a battleground state. You just know the GOP is salivating at the chance to flip our state Red like they did with Wisconsin. It's gonna get fucking ugly over here.

Pillfred

05-02-2018, 04:52 PM

allegro

05-02-2018, 07:57 PM

flip our state Red like they did with Wisconsin. It's gonna get fucking ugly over here.
I wouldn’t characterize Wisconsin as a flip to red. Democrats had control for 8 Presidential elections, but by a pretty slim margin. And it was the other direction for decades before that. Wisconsin’s blue collar more-populated factory towns were largely Democrat, while the rural areas were Republican. The economy tanked, factories long ago closed, minorities in Milwaukee, Racine and Kenosha are overlooked, the education system is in debt up to its eyeballs, then Rep. Scott Walker promised change. So far, not much change except he distanced himself from Trump; a lot of the voters who did vote for Trump are Democrats who are fed up. The Democratic candidates who’ve ran against Walker have had scandals and poor track records. Ryan has been representing that district since 1999. Scott Walker has been Governor since 2011.

Mantra

05-03-2018, 05:40 PM

I wouldn’t characterize Wisconsin as a flip to red. Democrats had control for 8 Presidential elections, but by a pretty slim margin. And it was the other direction for decades before that. Wisconsin’s blue collar more-populated factory towns were largely Democrat, while the rural areas were Republican. The economy tanked, factories long ago closed, minorities in Milwaukee, Racine and Kenosha are overlooked, the education system is in debt up to its eyeballs, then Rep. Scott Walker promised change. So far, not much change except he distanced himself from Trump; a lot of the voters who did vote for Trump are Democrats who are fed up. The Democratic candidates who’ve ran against Walker have had scandals and poor track records. Ryan has been representing that district since 1999. Scott Walker has been Governor since 2011.
Yeah, that's all true.

Although, when I said flip the state red, I wasn't so much thinking about Trump winning Wisconsin. I was referring more to Walker and Ryan and the big shift that took place back around 2011. Since then, Republicans have gerrymandered the hell out of it and controlled both the legislature and the governor's seat. Before then, the state tended to be more battleground-y, similar to Minnesota in some ways, but in the last ten years the Republicans have decimated Wisconsin, particularly in the realms of education and the public sector and unions. And that's what everyone is afraid of happening here since Republicans currently hold a slim majority in our state senate. Keeping the governor seat Democrat is crucial.

The thing is, Minnesota and Wisconsin have sort of become these competing ideological symbols, with each state representing its own model for the economy. Right wingers resent the fact that Minnesota is right next door and has a superior economy. It's bad for the Republican brand, since they're always pretending to be the ones who care so much about the economy. They hate the example we set, which is why I guarantee they'd love the chance to tear us down.

allegro

05-03-2018, 09:49 PM

Yeah well fwiw Wisconsin is regretting what happened to its education system; it’s so bad, they can’t even attract good employees for FoxConn. It’s like O. Henry’s “The Gift of the Magi.”

Pillfred

05-04-2018, 02:20 AM

Yeah well fwiw Wisconsin is regretting what happened to its education system; it’s so bad, they can’t even attract good employees for FoxConn. It’s like O. Henry’s “The Gift of the Magi.”

I know a guy who's a professor over there he's not been to happy about that situation for a few years now.

Patrick_Nicholas

06-26-2018, 09:51 PM

Crowley has lost the Democratic primary to Alexandria Ocasiao-Cortez. My district's population is largely Hispanic, and has voted for Democratic Presidential candidates consistently since 1992, so there's a good chance she'll get a set in the House.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/rep-joe-crowley-loses-28-year-old-newcomer-alexandria-ocasio-n886851

Information about Alexandria.
https://ballotpedia.org/Alexandria_Ocasio-Cortez

GulDukat

06-26-2018, 10:06 PM

ltrandazzo

06-27-2018, 09:39 AM

And Trump is taking credit for his defeat.

He can try to.

I thought it was classy of Crowley to not only announce his support of Ocasiao-Cortez but to also dedicate his band's performance of "Born To Run" to her last night at this campaign party. I'd like to see what the news pundits have to say about civility with that.

I knew 100% nothing about Alexandria until last night and now I'm kind of jealous that I can't vote for her where I live. This was a big game changer and I'm excited to see what her win does to the party.

bobbie solo

06-27-2018, 01:58 PM

Cortez is an AMAZING candidate. So happy she will be in the House come next year. She was an organizer for Bernie, and is an unabashed progressive. And here is CNN so transparently trying to get her to shit on the nat'l party....really pathetic and obvious what Harlowe is doing here in the first two minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xsgzNwYkZQ

Gotta try & get that sound byte. Fucking hack.

And here's that piece of shit Pelosi downplaying the win:

"Asked directly about a characterization from Republicans that democratic socialism (https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-democratic-socialists-of-america-are-dreaming-big-but-acting-locally) was “ascendent” in the Democratic Party, Pelosi dismissed the notion.

“It’s ascendent in that district perhaps,” she said of New York’s 14th congressional district, an exceptionally diverse swath of Queens and Bronx counties. “But I don’t accept any characterization of our party presented by the Republicans. So let me reject that right now. Our party is a big tent, our districts are very different, one from the other.”

“Each of our members is elected to be the independent representative of their district, Pelosi continued. “So nobody’s district is representative of somebody’s else’s district.”

Patrick_Nicholas

07-16-2018, 01:44 PM

As it becomes more obvious that Trump would be impeached if the Dems win in the midterms, Mother Russia is clearly looking to prevent that from happening. Relevant now that Trump and Putin have publicly confessed their love for one another while still denying that Russia had any involvement in 2016.
http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-russian-bots-trolls-test-waters-ahead-of-us-midterms-2018-7

sinspots

07-16-2018, 04:38 PM

GulDukat

08-07-2018, 09:02 PM

This is a nailbiter.

https://www.politico.com/election-results/2018/ohio/special-election/aug-07/

theimage13

08-08-2018, 12:22 AM

I don't know anything about Ohio's 12th or Joe Manchik, but so help me, if the handful of votes he took would have otherwise gone to O'Connor...

Jinsai

08-08-2018, 11:42 AM

As it becomes more obvious that Trump would be impeached if the Dems win in the midterms, Mother Russia is clearly looking to prevent that from happening.

It's also so obviously the crucial issue at this point that Trump's cult is mobilized.... this is terrifying. Is this really going to come down to whether or not sane people hate this madness or supportive denial? Which of those incentives is the greater pull to get people to actually get off their ass and vote in an election they usually don't bother to?

Psychologists are going to have a field day with this shit, regardless.

Louie_Cypher

08-08-2018, 11:58 AM

i know it it's msnbc but bot bad analysis https://www.youtube.com/
-Louie

allegate

08-14-2018, 10:24 AM

An 11-Year-Old Hacked Into a U.S. Voting System Replica in 10 Minutes This Weekend (http://time.com/5366171/11-year-old-hacked-into-us-voting-system-10-minutes/)

Well I feel so much safer now.

Speaking of Florida:

Florida State House Candidate Admits She Faked College Diploma (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/florida-state-house-candidate-admits-she-faked-college-diploma/ar-BBLTiNx?OCID=ansmsnnews11)

theimage13

08-14-2018, 11:00 AM

I'm really pissed off that I can't find the rebuttal article to the 11-year-old thing. The gist of it though was that they're basically given free reign to physically access the machines in conditions that are not comparable to what an actual in-service election machine would be under. They were basically saying "yeah, no shit someone might be able to steal your gold if you just toss it in a shoebox under your bed, but not when that shoebox is in a safety deposit box".

Electronic voting has always worried me, but I think the headline is more alarmist than the reality calls for.

allegate

08-14-2018, 12:29 PM

For sure, and the article even touches on it a little bit, but the news lately is alarmist af because everything is on fire.

sick among the pure

08-14-2018, 01:18 PM

Yeah, I am a poll worker every election, and physical tampering just isn't going to happen. There are multiple numbered seals on everything on those machines, down to the seal that holds the fabric cover in place over it during transport. And there is always one dem and one repub with it at all times, including drop off after polls close.
Any digital meddling would have to be done remotely.

Patrick_Nicholas

09-24-2018, 06:24 PM

A reminder of the obvious reason why the GOP is in such a rush to confirm Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court despite his sexual misconduct allegations: They're doing this to get themselves re-elected out of fear of losing their conservative base by inaction, even if it means dismissing the allegations as complete lies without actually knowing any facts.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/republicans-are-going-to-plow-right-through-a-minefield/2018/09/24/ea1bab1e-c035-11e8-90c9-23f963eea204_story.html?utm_term=.a4703daff061

Why are Republicans in such a hurry? There’s a chance Democrats could take control of the Senate in November, turning McConnell back into the minority leader and dramatically reducing the chance that Trump will be able to appoint another far-right conservative ideologue to the Supreme Court. The odds of the Senate switching hands have been seen as pretty long, however — although the Kavanaugh fiasco seems to be improving them.

GOP senators are primarily motivated by fear. The party’s activist base believes Kavanaugh will provide a decisive fifth vote to overturn Roe v. Wade, end affirmative action and weaken protections for same-sex married couples in the name of “religious freedom.” Republicans control the presidency and both chambers of Congress. If GOP officials can’t deliver now, why should conservatives bother voting for them?

EDIT: One of the only positive things to come out of this is that it has people absolutely furious at the GOP, though only time will tell if they will be furious enough to actually vote them out in November.

ryanmcfly

09-25-2018, 08:29 AM

Got to go see Beto O'Rourke speak in Denton weekend before last. Had a great time. Really hope enough people show up and vote.

Mantra

09-25-2018, 02:05 PM

https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1044552538689802240

I seriously can not stop laughing my ass off at this.

Patrick_Nicholas

10-06-2018, 03:58 PM

After the very narrow victory for Kavanaugh, we need to make damn sure that we all go vote in the midterms in November. We need to push harder for our candidates. Hopefully we will still be furious enough at the GOP by then to actually go out and take the appropriate action.

onthewall2983

10-08-2018, 10:13 PM

Taylor Swift's instagram post had an effect (https://abc7.com/entertainment/voting-registrations-spike-after-taylor-swifts-political-post/4442341/)

Deepvoid

10-09-2018, 07:51 PM

So you take out Biden and Bernie and you guys are back to square run.
I truly don't believe Warren can beat Trump. Beto won't even beat Cruz so how could he make a run against Trump on the back of a losing senate run?

Primaries are in 16 months. Coming faster than you think.

allegro

10-09-2018, 11:40 PM

Obama came out of nowhere at the start of the primaries.

Cruz is in one red state. Different game.

Trump only won the Electoral College by 77,744 votes: https://www.weeklystandard.com/john-mccormack/the-election-came-down-to-77-744-votes-in-pennsylvania-wisconsin-and-michigan-updated

There are lots of names circulating, especially Deval Patrick: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2018/03/07/deval-patrick-the-democrats-could-do-worse/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f756cd723b85

Barack Obama follows Patrick on Twitter, and Patrick is an Obama Foundation board member. Patrick has skeletons in his closet, though.

I still think Elizabeth Warren is smart enough and tough enough to take on Trump and kick his ass. Whether or not black women voters will like her, I don’t know. Black female voters are the biggest Democratic voting group.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ap-black-female-democrats-call-for-changes-in-party-2018-9

ryanmcfly

10-12-2018, 02:53 PM

I wonder if Beto O'Rourke loses in 2018, if he would try again in 2020. I honestly think he may have a better shot against John Cornyn than Ted Cruz.

elevenism

10-12-2018, 07:13 PM

I have a feeling that Beto could be the next Obama.

Also, Deepvoid , this is TEXAS. The fact that Beto is polling at 45% is pretty inspiring.

And, he's got the support of 52% of women.

aggroculture

10-12-2018, 08:15 PM

elevenism what's the vibe like on the ground? Is there a sense among people you know that Beto could win?

Louie_Cypher

10-13-2018, 09:54 AM

there are probably going to be a ton of shenanigans this election when ever you hear "voter fraud" that usually code for voter repression what Kemp is doing in GA should be criminal and he has been sued and lost before look the president is very unpopular progressive issues are poling well like medicare for all even fox has quit showing trump rallies. look the thing the republican's have is straight up cheating like Gerrymandering while voter roll purges are necessary from time to time if you look at theses they usually target minorities and hence democrats one reason the push to get kav in in a hurry the last time the supreme court got involved in our election we got "W" then 9/11 Iraq and the economic meltdown if you are a afraid of the illuminate you should probably turn your attention towards the neocons with climate change in full effect you will see a much more Elysium type existence with an extreme class divides were only the rich mater i hope we can wake up and quickly.
-louie

elevenism

10-13-2018, 02:19 PM

@elevenism (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2475) what's the vibe like on the ground? Is there a sense among people you know that Beto could win?
I mean there is a lot of support but it still doesn't look good.

I'm certain Texas won't stay red forever though

ryanmcfly

10-13-2018, 04:38 PM

I mean there is a lot of support but it still doesn't look good.

I'm certain Texas won't stay red forever though

Yeah. I live in the DFW area and there are sooooo many Beto signs. Beto support here is surging. However, I went to Lubbock last weekend for a wedding and there were hardly any Beto signs. If Beto is going to win, he's going to need to convince some of the more rural Texans and the 18-25 demographic to vote. It's going to be a wild ride for sure.

theimage13

10-13-2018, 06:46 PM

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/10/brian-kemp-polls-georgia-voting.html

Good / depressing article on all the Republican-led voter suppression happening. This is one of the things that scares me most about the GOP having power.

elevenism

10-13-2018, 09:06 PM

Rubeninphoenix

10-14-2018, 03:43 AM

"ARE GRATE PRECEDENT!!!", as I've seen him be called a few times, is coming to my neck of the woods this upcoming Friday. Thankfully, it will not be downtown again so we shouldn't have a repeat of the last time Cucknald J Dump was here.

elevenism

10-14-2018, 04:12 AM

Mantra

10-14-2018, 12:30 PM

Last time Trump visited my state he left with a long wad of toilet paper dragging from his shoe, so I'm actually kind of excited to see how he'll humilate himself the next time he decides to show his face here.

M1ke

10-16-2018, 04:06 PM

I'm not entirely sure which thread to put this in, but an interesting article on our general political discourse:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/11/newt-gingrich-says-youre-welcome/570832/

ltrandazzo

10-17-2018, 09:50 AM

Early voting starts today in Tennessee, so I'm heading out to vote this afternoon. Let's get this fucking thing started.

Patrick_Nicholas

10-21-2018, 12:08 AM

House Democrats’ hope for wave election diminishes as Republicans rebound
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/house-democrats-hope-for-wave-election-diminishes-as-republicans-rebound/2018/10/20/3b28d9b4-d31e-11e8-83d6-291fcead2ab1_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.401f02f506a4

Democratic hopes for a wave election that would carry them to a significant House majority have been tempered in recent weeks amid a shifting political landscape and a torrent of hard-hitting attack ads from Republicans.

Democrats remain favored to win, but GOP leaders believe they can minimize the number of seats they would lose — and, perhaps, find a path to preserving their advantage in the chamber.

The tightening, with just over two weeks left, reflects how President Trump’s rising approval rating and the polarizing fight over Supreme Court Justice Brett M. Kavanaugh appear to be boosting the party’s candidates in a number of conservative and rural districts that have been considered up for grabs.

But Democrats have retained their strength in key suburban areas, where polls show female voters furious with Trump are likely to help flip Republican-held seats.

“The past few weeks haven’t really diminished Democrats’ chances of a takeover by that much, but they’ve increased the chances of a small Democratic majority,” said David Wasserman, House editor for the nonpartisan Cook Political Report. He estimated Democrats have a 70 to 75 percent chance of winning the House.

At stake is the fate of the Trump presidency — whether Democrats will gain the power to investigate his administration and thwart his agenda, or if emboldened Republicans will fulfill the president’s vision for the nation, from building a border wall to repeal of the Obama-era health-care law.

Together, both parties have reserved about $150 million worth of airtime for TV and radio commercials between Tuesday and the Nov. 6 midterm elections, according to data obtained by The Washington Post, with most of the money coming from Democrats. Many are expected to be attack ads...

Deepvoid

10-23-2018, 04:32 PM

ltrandazzo

10-23-2018, 04:38 PM

https://www.salon.com/2018/10/23/republicans-outpace-democrats-in-early-voting-in-key-swing-states/

GOP outpacing Dems in key states early voting. What a catastrophic outcome it would be if Dems can't even get control of the House.

Early voting is zero percent indicative of how the final results will end up. Dems showed up in masses in 2016 to vote for Hillary and look how that turned out. Same results in 2014 for those midterms. Two weeks left to get out the vote and drag as many registered voters that you know to the polls.

Conan The Barbarian

10-23-2018, 06:41 PM

With all the fuckery going on with voting and such, I really dont trust early voting. Should I wait till vote day or should I just go and do it early?

ltrandazzo

10-24-2018, 07:17 AM

With all the fuckery going on with voting and such, I really dont trust early voting. Should I wait till vote day or should I just go and do it early?

Go and do it early or do it on election day. It's the same as if you go on election day, just with less people and hopefully, less stress. If there's an issue, you still have time to get it sorted out by going early. We also need to utilize it often so more states start to allow it. I voted on the first early day I could here in TN and was able to walk in and out in less than five minutes.

botley

10-24-2018, 07:28 AM

Conan The Barbarian

10-24-2018, 07:31 AM

It's absolutely BONKERS to me that some Americans don't have any concept of how great it is having advance polls open for your elections. So time-saving and convenient... I really can't imagine an election without it.

I agree it’s great , just with current political climate, not sure if my vote would be safe.

botley

10-24-2018, 08:25 AM

I agree it’s great , just with current political climate, not sure if my vote would be safe.
I don't know anything about the physical safeguards in place but I imagine there are scrutineers there, just like at a regular poll. And it's less busy... so that's kind of likely to be more scrutineer-ing per vote, maybe?

ltrandazzo

10-24-2018, 12:20 PM

I don't know anything about the physical safeguards in place but I imagine there are scrutineers there, just like at a regular poll. And it's less busy... so that's kind of likely to be more scrutineer-ing per vote, maybe?
@Conan The Barbarian (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=498) - If poll workers or anyone there is being difficult, check and see if they have an attorney on-site. If not, call 1-866-OURVOTE to report the activity. Do not say anything partisan at the polling place as it could be viewed as illegal campaigning at the polling place. You have your rights.

Conan The Barbarian

10-24-2018, 12:37 PM

Will do, thanks.

allegate

10-27-2018, 12:33 AM

During the past month or so, volunteers texting me about various ballot measures and asking if they have my vote have been met with explanations about why voting is immoral.Guy I sorta-know said that. Voting is immoral. Jesus.

elevenism

10-27-2018, 07:42 AM

@thelastdisciple (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=199) turned me into this nightmarish bullshit: voting machines in Texas are switching some people's votes from Beto to Cruz (and Cruz to no selection in a few cases.) This is happening to people who are choosing straight ticket, so, the way I see it, there's a good chance of people not noticing.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/texas/article/Voting-machine-errors-changed-some-Texans-13339298.php

Louie_Cypher

10-27-2018, 09:30 AM

going to see a ton of this going on this year. i still think trump is an idiot but i think he mentioned a red wave because he was told to cover their tracks. all the voting role purges all seamed to targeted towards democrats. funny how the attack bombs were mailed no mention was made if it would effect mail in voting, spent some time @ voting village at def con this year. not as much time as i would have liked. like all the villages it's a good place to jaw and get info from people who have put a little more effort into the village then most folks. i did find out most voting machine manufacturers are republican doners. so i'm not going to disregard midterm results. there is going to be sceptical.
-louie

Louie_Cypher

10-27-2018, 09:33 AM

video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M8iSRqlNuo
-louie

ltrandazzo

10-30-2018, 12:16 PM

This article makes me insanely furious but this one really pisses me off - https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/10/12-young-people-on-why-they-probably-wont-vote.html

Aaron | Age 25 | Atlanta, Georgia | Last Voted: 2016

I volunteered for Bernie Sanders. I went to many rallies, I was at the first presidential debate in Las Vegas. But when he folded, then immediately went and defended Hillary, a person who he’s been campaigning against for 18 months, that just really killed it for me. I just have no respect for that. It’s the same thing on the other side. Look at Ted Cruz, who’s spent his last two years being made fun of by Donald Trump, and then we see Trump saying Cruz is the right guy in Texas to go against Beto O’Rourke. It’s just so much political theater, and it really just turned me off entirely. I wasn’t planning to vote in 2016. I was with my mom, we were at Albertsons grocery store around the corner from my house, and they were in there voting. My mom voted, and it took her literally ten seconds. She said, “You should do it,” and I said, “I don’t know, I don’t really think I want to.” And she was like, “Aaron, it just took a minute.” So I said, “Okay, fine.” I just voted for Hillary. I felt bad about it for two years. I look at it this way: That report just came out the other day about global warming, talking about how we have 12 years, until 2030, for this radical change unlike the world has ever seen. And The Hill newspaper just put out that article about how the DNC does not plan on making climate change a big part of their platform, even still. I just do not understand why I would vote for a party that doesn’t care about me in any way. They can say, “Sure, we’ll lower student interest rates.” Well, I don’t give a shit about student interest rates if I’m not going to live past 13 more years on this planet. Everyone on Twitter can be like, “Oh, we need the Democratic Senate to pack the courts.” But have they watched the Democratic Party at any time during my lifetime? They have not done anything. Like, they don’t stand for anything. And I just don’t see the point anymore. There are people that are exciting. Bernie was exciting, Cynthia [Nixon] was exciting, and Alexandria [Ocasio-Cortez] is exciting. So would I vote in the future? I don’t know. If somebody came along that was exciting like that? Yeah. Probably.

*deep breath* STACEY ABRAMS IS RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR IN YOUR STATE YOU DUMBASS.

I want to educate these morons but I also feel like they need ridicule for this nonsense, too.

Louie_Cypher

10-30-2018, 03:06 PM

one of the last HST interviews on journalism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbG5Awb7gK4
-louie

onthewall2983

10-30-2018, 07:30 PM

Voted today. I feel very depressed and worried. There's a part of me that wonders if that's a good sign, because two years ago I was feeling hopeful and optimistic I'd never have to care at all about anything *he* says anymore.

allegate

11-01-2018, 12:22 AM

https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1057703421778845696

So......my brain hurts looking at this. Will he say he was hacked?

(In case it is taken down, Ted Cruz just posted a Zodiac code for Halloween)

M1ke

11-01-2018, 06:33 AM

theimage13

11-01-2018, 06:43 AM

$20 says it's a "free publicity" stunt. Either he was hacked by one of his own supporters who wanted to make sure his name stayed in the news, or he did it himself for the same reason.

ltrandazzo

11-01-2018, 07:19 AM

Someone decoded it already -
1057711373390696448

marodi

11-01-2018, 08:57 AM

I think it's hilarious. Maybe he just has a great sense of humor? The free publicity doesn't hurt either.

elevenism

11-01-2018, 09:15 AM

Yeah. I live in the DFW area and there are sooooo many Beto signs. Beto support here is surging. However, I went to Lubbock last weekend for a wedding and there were hardly any Beto signs. If Beto is going to win, he's going to need to convince some of the more rural Texans and the 18-25 demographic to vote. It's going to be a wild ride for sure.

Regarding Beto: he's not going to convince people in these panhandle farming communities, period.
Trump totally fucked over texas farmers. Then he offered them a bailout. Trump doesn't understand that these people don't WANT a fucking bailout.
They are insulted by the idea.

But EVEN AFTER all this bullshit, the majority of these farmers still support a straight red ticket.

It's sad, really.

Edit: i'm mostly talking about low income people below, not farmers

I think it's the great deception of the republican party. They stand for "old timey values." They prey on xenophobia and racism.
In this manner, they are able to garner support from people who would BENEFIT THE MOST from the social programs the left wants to enact.

Worse yet, a recent poll shows that the majority of Texans support the expansion of medicaid. Medicaid is all but unobtainable here: a single mother of 2 can't receive it if she makes more than like $3500 a month.

But our elected officials are HELLBENT on undoing ANYTHING that has to do with the ACA. Hell, our attorney general has tried to SUE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT to have the ACA declared unconstitutional.

I also remember that, when the ACA was first enacted, texans stood to benefit the most from the program, and were also the most vehemently opposed.

I fucking LOVE texas. I'm a Texan first and an American...i was going to say 2nd, but i REALLY don't want to be part of this country AT ALL.
I love our rebellious spirit. Texas is home. It's in my blood, literally, as my ancestors were here when texas was still a country.

But we are currently, on the whole, misguided. I DO expect that to change, at least to some degree, sooner than later.

THIS IS WHY WE NEED BLUE DOG DEMS.
If we can't change people's minds about social conservatism, we need candidates who will be socially conservative and fiscally liberal.

Louie_Cypher

11-01-2018, 11:29 AM

just reading a huffington post article of national enquirers smear on ted cruz https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ted-cruz-ami-national-enquirer-donald-trump_us_5bd8a992e4b019a7ab57d70e. again i find trump to be an utter idiot. he does have away of using media to his advantage. and although people find it worthy of wrapping fish or lining birdcages. i still gets eyeballs. i n almost every grocery checkout stand in America. and you may not read it but still sits in your subconscious. imagine the outrage if you drove by a billboard the read trump is a fraud. now i am curious how they are still in business? i do think it is subscription based. and i know checkout lane realeastate is not cheap.
-louie

Mantra

11-01-2018, 12:18 PM

Remember that time when Ted Cruz tweeted some porn

allegro

11-01-2018, 01:13 PM

THIS IS WHY WE NEED BLUE DOG DEMS.
If we can't change people's minds about social conservatism, we need candidates who will be socially conservative and fiscally liberal.
You need to get a Democratic Governor who can at least fix the voting system, then worry about all of the rest. Your voting system is FUCKED. F U C K E D. Intentionally fucked-up stupid. Voters choosing straight-ticket Democrat who look on the screen to verify their votes are seeing that they voted for TED CRUZ. They complain, and nothing is done. With Republicans in charge, nothing will change. Gerrymandering and cheating and computers weighting the system in the Republicans' favor will continue.

Even if every non-Republican went INDEPENDENT in Texas right now, it wouldn't make one damned bit of difference if the Republicans are cheating.

And the Republican voters LIKE that because they vote for two single issues: Guns and abortion.

The only way that anybody BUT a Republican has a chance of winning the Governor's and Secretary of State race (to fix the election system, probably the MOST important races in Texas) is: Get crossover votes (note: this does not mean a Dem who is pro-life) re guns and abortion. It's how Democrats won in other Red states.

Other areas in the country focused more on jobs as the key issue, but Texas? Guns and abortion. The right is brainwashed into believing that ALL people who aren't Conservative hate all guns and run screaming from them in the other direction. There is an entire Twitter UNIVERSE out there with people talking about how, if there is a "REVOLUTION," the poor stupid "Libtards" will be completely unarmed and the Conservatives will be the only ones with guns.

This is why a lot of black folk are doing the opposite: When there is an uprising of racism, disarming is NOT the thing to do. Especially when their ancestors have been hung from trees. They sure as shit ain't aiming to go through that, again.

That's why they point to when the NRA supported gun control (https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act) when the Black Panthers had weapons.

allegro

11-01-2018, 01:23 PM

See this message from Oprah Winfrey and Maria Shriver:

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/1057277250524012544

ltrandazzo

11-01-2018, 01:41 PM

You need to get a Democratic Governor who can at least fix the voting system, then worry about all of the rest. Your voting system is FUCKED. F U C K E D. Intentionally fucked-up stupid. Voters choosing straight-ticket Democrat who look on the screen to verify their votes are seeing that they voted for TED CRUZ. They complain, and nothing is done. With Republicans in charge, nothing will change. Gerrymandering and cheating and computers weighting the system in the Republicans' favor will continue.

Even if every non-Republican went INDEPENDENT in Texas right now, it wouldn't make one damned bit of difference if the Republicans are cheating.

And the Republican voters LIKE that because they vote for two single issues: Guns and abortion.

The only way that anybody BUT a Republican has a chance of winning the Governor's and Secretary of State race (to fix the election system, probably the MOST important races in Texas) is: Get crossover votes (note: this does not mean a Dem who is pro-life) re guns and abortion. It's how Democrats won in other Red states.

Other areas in the country focused more on jobs as the key issue, but Texas? Guns and abortion. The right is brainwashed into believing that ALL people who aren't Conservative hate all guns and run screaming from them in the other direction. There is an entire Twitter UNIVERSE out there with people talking about how, if there is a "REVOLUTION," the poor stupid "Libtards" will be completely unarmed and the Conservatives will be the only ones with guns.

This is why a lot of black folk are doing the opposite: When there is an uprising of racism, disarming is NOT the thing to do. Especially when their ancestors have been hung from trees. They sure as shit ain't aiming to go through that, again.

That's why they point to when the NRA supported gun control (https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act) when the Black Panthers had weapons.

Only thing I'll add is to also elect more Dems to the state legislature, but this is exactly correct. There are also PLENTY of numbers and evidence that supports the fact that Texas is a low-voter turn out state. Much of that is gerrymandering on the rest of it is just the state making it hard for folks to register to vote. Those fixes start with local government and shifting the balance there. Texas, IMO, is a purple state that could turn blue down the road.

@elevenism (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2475) - your points are valid and please don't misinterpret this critique as me trying to discount you, but the last thing progressivism needs is more blue dog democrats. No more Joe Manchins.

allegro

11-01-2018, 02:02 PM

Joe Manchin is a GREAT example. (A Democrat who caucuses with Republicans in order to win elections. See also: DINO.)

elevenism

11-01-2018, 10:09 PM

You need to get a Democratic Governor who can at least fix the voting system, then worry about all of the rest. Your voting system is FUCKED
I agree, but I think you are overestimating the control that i, personally, have over these things :p
ltrandazzo , I think you're right. I think Texas IS already a purple state. If we weren't gerrymandered to hell, things would definitely be different.
Also, brother-man, I know you aren't trying to discount me and I LOVE discussing these things.
allegro , DEFINITELY. A pro-gun dem who is a social centrist could get the job done.

I'm SO glad you guys have an understanding of the truth about Texas politics. I don't think many people do.

elevenism

11-01-2018, 10:14 PM

Also, I've spent my entire life around Texans and in texas. And Ted Cruz is about the least texan guy in the state.

He is a fucking poseur. He can't pull off a cowboy hat and boots. I can, and I have 1" plugs in my ears and 2 foot long hair.

Ted Cruz is so disgustingly fake. Texas is a state of mind, and/or a genetic thing. Cruz has neither.

allegate

11-01-2018, 11:05 PM

Cruz has neither.
and yet...

elevenism

11-01-2018, 11:42 PM

and yet...
Sadly...

Louie_Cypher

11-02-2018, 09:11 AM

Only thing I'll add is to also elect more Dems to the state legislature, but this is exactly correct. There are also PLENTY of numbers and evidence that supports the fact that Texas is a low-voter turn out state. Much of that is gerrymandering on the rest of it is just the state making it hard for folks to register to vote. Those fixes start with local government and shifting the balance there. Texas, IMO, is a purple state that could turn blue down the road.

@elevenism (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2475) - your points are valid and please don't misinterpret this critique as me trying to discount you, but the last thing progressivism needs is more blue dog democrats. No more Joe Manchins. my opinion democratic views are very popular popular, my view is dem's are always running to the right. claiming to be moderate name one moderate republican. they have huge branding problem. not being able to shake myth's like liberal media. tax and spend. roger knew what he was doing and had advised Nixon the television was the future. you can say well the left has msnbc or CNN. but they don't near the viewership of fox. look i know the have to cater to advertisers. there are 6 companies that control every thing you see. so if you think. they are going report unbiased on this no more than they are going to start sending you checks.sorry to always rant here but I find it important people see what's happening.
-louie

theimage13

11-02-2018, 12:59 PM

I really like this approach. I hope it comes to fruition.

Democrats say house majority would mean investigative barrage; not impeachment (https://www.npr.org/2018/11/02/662112853/democrats-say-house-majority-would-mean-investigative-barrage-not-impeachment?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=202902&fbclid=IwAR1yv9fvnSMolNVTtEqtgzUseHk8AO4PPdF2y5zdk AnMazP4h_cL1S4ZWN8)

One of the things that has driven me mad is the ability for everyone in the administration to get a free pass because the party isn't going to investigate and punish themselves. Every time someone gets caught breaking ethics rules, for example, it's up to...well...themselves to hand out any sort of punishment. So they don't. I would LOVE to see that shift.

allegro

11-02-2018, 01:52 PM

Deepvoid

11-02-2018, 02:11 PM

Trump now complaining that the pipe bombs "incidents" and synagogue shooting interrupted GOP's momentum for the mid-term.

Coming straight from POTUS' mouth. Can't make this shit up.

elevenism

11-02-2018, 02:31 PM

Early voting by young people, many who are likely first time voters, is up by FIVE HUNDRED PERCENT in texas.

I strongly doubt 18-25 year olds figured into the poll numbers we have for Beto/Zodiac, as seniors are the largest voting bloc by FAR.
And studies have shown that young people are likelier to vote blue than red. Also, shit: if you were 19 and didn't know a whole lot about politics, would you vote for the impish old cunt, or the young guy who was in the punk rock band with a future members of The Mars Volta and At the Drive In?

Combining these things makes me think Beto DEFINITELY has a chance!

allegro

11-02-2018, 07:28 PM

God, I hope so.

G and I will be up ALL NIGHT on election night, with pizza and wine, and hopefully not in need of CPR or an ambulance due to stress. Might have to get out the BP machine to check G's BP, LOL.

* Andrew Gillum and Bill Nelson in Florida
* Beto O'Rourke in Texas
* Stacey Abrams in Georgia
* Getting rid of Devin Nunes in California
* Kyrsten Sinema in Arizona
* "Ironstach" Randy Bryce taking Paul Ryan's seat in Wisconsin's First District
* Tony Evers taking the Governor seat from Scott Walker in Wisconsin
* Lauren Underwood in Illinois' 14th District
* Lauren Kelly for Governor in Kansas

AND SO MANY MORE ...

G and I voted on Monday. We ran into Democratic 58th District State Representative candidate, Bob Morgan (http://www.bobmorganforillinois.com/about/), shook his hand, and he thanked us for voting. Really nice guy. We ran into him again on the way out, as the poll location (our police headquarters) was closing, and I said "I can't wait until Tuesday" and he said, "God, ME NEITHER!" and we all laughed. (Of course, we voted for him.)

We also again ran into a really nice high-school-aged girl who has been tirelessly stumping for Illinois State Senate candidate Julie Morrison (https://www.juliemorrisonforstatesenate.com/), door-to-door, then again at the polling location. So glad to see young people so involved.

G and I then went grocery-shopping and it wasn't until I got home that I realized that I'd grabbed and applied an "I voted" sticker en español. :)

theimage13

11-02-2018, 07:39 PM

allegro

11-02-2018, 07:49 PM

I will be taking a Xanax and going to bed early Tuesday.

On the night of the general, I started watching returns. As it became increasingly clear that I was witnessing a tragedy unfold, I did something I've literally never done: drank. I mean, I love a good beer with dinner. But I drank for the purpose of escaping, which in my 30+ years I had never done (and haven't again since). I can't put myself through that again, so Tuesday (and election night 2020) I will be doing everything in my power to call it an early night - that is, to be in bed before results even START coming in. I'll deal with it in the morning instead of subjecting myself to the slow burn.

I think this Tuesday is going to be different, though. I mean, I REALLY hope it's going to be different; so many people are voting early, the early voting and registrations are setting RECORDS.

2016: I had something of a premonition. I had a hotel room booked for a celebratory party with food and a fireplace and expensive champagne, but I had some weird "feeling" a few days ahead of time, and canceled it and opted to stay home and call it a quiet night, and then of course watched as it all went so terribly wrong, but my "intuition" was right.

My "intuition" this time is more hopeful. Not certain, mind you, but hopeful.

A really good friend of mine used to drink box wine (gah) every election night like it was the biggest night ever; he died at 52 of liver failure. Every election night, I think of him. RIP, Jay.

Louie_Cypher

11-02-2018, 08:53 PM

Watching Obama stump for Gillum and Nelson in Florida and some crazy asshole hecklers are screaming shit at him and interrupting him.

Ugh.

My Mom was on the phone asking me last night, “these conservative Trump people, why are they so MEAN? So heartless and so uncaring? Do they only care about money?”

Well, that and hate and fear and guns.was watching the young Turks they send this one poor lady out to all the trump rallies this one guy said his sister was some stupid liberal in Washington state he actually said, if there was a civil war and she was on the wrong side he would shoot her in the face. his own sister. they are so blinded by rage and hate there is no longer reality. the whole caravan thing has turned into a comedy. he doesn't even attempt to tell the truth anymore. they'd be better off becoming Scientologists at least they could claim tom cruise and john Travolta as one of their clan i guess it's Klan
-louie

theimage13

11-02-2018, 09:39 PM

Oof. Sorry to hear about your friend...that's rough :(

I feel like I was one of the few people who called 2016. Every time someone said he'd fail, he only got further. One of my friends is a political strategist in FL and is amazing at analysis and told me in October 2015 that the guy *couldn't* - not wouldn't, but couldn't - win the primary. He's helped elect Democrats to historically Republican seats. He knows how to read things....usually. As soon as I saw him blow that call, I knew we were dealing with something different.

Granted, I'm prone to pessimism. I very frequently employ the "expect the worst so you can be pleasantly surprised if something else happens" mentality. So while I kind of expected the outcome, I didn't necessarily believe that it would happen, if that makes sense.

elevenism

11-03-2018, 08:39 AM

Yeah theimage13 ,it's a trip. My mom called it too, from the get go. As soon as she saw the PRIMARY debate, she called it. My wife and I laughed at her. A newscaster bet her life trump wouldn't win.

This time I think we've got a good chance. And with Beto, I don't expect him to win, but will be SO thrilled if he does. And I think he has a chance.

Louie_Cypher

11-03-2018, 10:45 AM

case in point same troll I've been dealing with on face book said about how much winning DJT was doing, i replied we will see come Tuesday. this was his reply. "David Lucero dude yer kind are this close... I am a minister of death praying for war! i know so you can see my last name. i like what Obama said, you won why are you so angry?
-louie

Louie_Cypher

11-04-2018, 08:51 AM

having an unfounded fear of another human being because of the color of their skin doesn't make you a racist it makes you a coward.
-louie

theimage13

11-04-2018, 09:38 AM

having an unfounded fear of another human being because of the color of their skin doesn't make you a racist it makes you a coward.
-louie

It makes you both.

zero

11-04-2018, 09:45 PM

having an unfounded fear of another human being because of the color of their skin doesn't make you a racist it makes you a coward.
-louie

Xenophobia is a mental disorder, and I don't think that labeling an affected person with a derogatory term will have any positive effect. Social shaming only works within groups who already share common beliefs. Love and compassion can change hearts and minds, and help others to overcome their mental health burdens. But compassion is too damn difficult so fuck it. Or is it?

botley

11-04-2018, 10:32 PM

Xenophobia is a mental disorder
I smell bullshit. Extreme examples of bigotry are sometimes characterized as pathological, but I've never seen xenophobia itself listed in any manuals of diagnosis for mental disorders. Just because it's irrational and wrong and causing lots of problems for humanity doesn't mean it's a mental disorder; it's not a burden on everyday functioning for most of its "patients" or even that unusual among certain populations. Just like stupidity.

elevenism

11-04-2018, 11:44 PM

I smell bullshit. Extreme examples of bigotry are sometimes characterized as pathological, but I've never seen xenophobia itself listed in any manuals of diagnosis for mental disorders. Just because it's irrational and wrong and causing lots of problems for humanity doesn't mean it's a mental disorder; it's not a burden on everyday functioning for most of its "patients" or even that unusual among certain populations. Just like stupidity.
Right dude. Xenophobia is NOT like agoraphobia or claustrophobia. It's not an actual medical condition. Rather, it's a socio-political term.

I mean, good show trying to take the high road zero , but yeah.

I would go so far as to say that xenophobia is more about hate than fear.

Personally, I think should actually be misoxeny (hatred of strangers) or misotramontism (hatred of what's over the mountains,) but those words are archaic and don't roll off the tongue so well.

But yeah, I was actually thinking about this: the phobia part of xenophobia DOES falsely suggest a medical condition. I tried to find a better word, but those two were the best I could do.

elevenism

11-04-2018, 11:47 PM

@zero (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=6414) , xenophobia is ACTUALLY a specific form of Assholery, and is, at LEAST a PSEUDO conscious decision, if not a full on choice.

richardp

11-05-2018, 12:16 AM

Xenophobia is a mental disorder

Absolutely fucking not, dude. Xenophobia is a fucking choice. You can make a choice as whether to like or to dislike a person. Having a mental illness is not a fucking choice.

elevenism

11-05-2018, 01:33 AM

Absolutely fucking not, dude. Xenophobia is a fucking choice. You can make a choice as whether to like or to dislike a person. Having a mental illness is not a fucking choice.right.
I think dude was confused because of "phobia" being in the word.
I will also say that I'm not so sure you can choose to like or dislike an individual person. But you can choose how you treat people, and you can choose to not judge people based on things like race.

WorzelG

11-05-2018, 06:03 AM

Haysey_Draws

11-05-2018, 06:11 AM

The thing about xenophobia is a lot of it seems to be practised by people who haven’t even had experience of the culture they’re xenophobic towards, case in point in the UK a lot of ‘leave the EU’ voters were people in small towns or rural areas who didn’t experience any influx of ‘foreigners’ due to free movement. The people who experienced other cultures in cities tended to want to remain, which does show if you actually mix with other cultures, the fear of the unknown is reduced

I'd love to agree with you, but my family live in and around London, spend most of their holidays in Spain/Greece/Portugal/France and work with people from all over the world (my mother especially) and they are some of the most narrow minded, racist fuckers i know...and wanted nothing more then to be out :( Sometimes people are just utter cunts, but in a broader sense you might be right.

WorzelG

11-05-2018, 07:54 AM

I'd love to agree with you, but my family live in and around London, spend most of their holidays in Spain/Greece/Portugal/France and work with people from all over the world (my mother especially) and they are some of the most narrow minded, racist fuckers i know...and wanted nothing more then to be out :( Sometimes people are just utter cunts, but in a broader sense you might be right.
Sorry you have a shitty family, but I’m not quite prepared yet to write off most people as cunts! Ha ha, we’ll see how things pan out

theimage13

11-05-2018, 08:55 AM

ltrandazzo

11-05-2018, 10:27 AM

You have got to be shitting me.

Kemp claims Democrats are hacking the election in Georgia (https://www.npr.org/2018/11/05/664271330/georgias-brian-kemp-announces-election-hacking-charge-against-democrats)

"Sir, we've tried gerrymandering. We've tried voter suppression. What else have we got?"

FFS. My better half is desperate for a real job and asked how I felt about applying for a job near Atlanta. I said no. This utter bullshit is largely why.

Running away from job opportunities because of which party is in control of that state's government doesn't help anything at all. I'm from Missouri and now live in Tennessee, and I've been doing whatever I can to change TN as a red state to a blue one. Georgia is not far away from becoming a purple/blue state and if Stacey Abrams wins tomorrow, it'll be a change that's coming quickly.

Louie_Cypher

11-05-2018, 11:06 AM

)i got jumped coming home from the Fillmore, look i was well lubricated(drunk) was cold late, so in my screwed up state of mind i stupidly, there was no uber at the time and couldn't hail a cab, so i elected to take a short cut through a neighborhood, that wasn't the greatest, anyways, got jumped by a group of blacks got about $80 passport and broke my jaw. and although having your jaw wired shut for two month's sucks, i don't blame them. i was drunk made a stupid decision and have lo live with the results. look American's aren't the sharpest bunch, looking at you trump supporters. OK, after a couple hundred years we elect a half black president. and America's are ta duh. solved that whole racism thing yea! my two years touring as playing bass the only white dude in an all black reagee band and it was only the bay area and that was ten year ago, but really did open my eyes about racism and white privilege and that was before those were things. best i can say. try and put yourself in their shoes. look those were some of my funnest and best day's those guy's are still some of my closest friends. when you realize it's a chemical that makes their skin a different color due to evolution for a race being born on an arbitrary spot on the globe is so silly it's stupid. to say their smarter dumber, more prone to violence. is ignorant. and smells of facsaim. almost every dictator or tyrant has pointed to people who are in some way different the blame for their social ills. that argument lacks though any intelligence or any productive solution to rational problem solving. just so we're clear
-louie

hellospaceboy

11-05-2018, 06:13 PM

I just got home from voting!!! I'm 36 years old, and I just voted for the first time in my life (I left Hungary when I was 19 and only became a US citizen last year). It was great, hour in line, but some good citizens dropped off a stack of free pizza for everyone, and my wife was with me, I was so happy... It was a long road to get here!

zero

11-05-2018, 06:29 PM

I would go so far as to say that xenophobia is more about hate than fear.

Perhaps it begins with fear, which is not a choice, but is then expressed as hate, which could be viewed as a choice in most cases. I am someone who is truly searching for solutions, instead of just adding to the shitpile of hatred on all sides. It's a very lonely position to be in. To me it seems beyond silly to hate someone just because they hate someone else. Nothing positive can be accomplished like that, and our current society is so chock full of negativity that striving for something positive is worth the effort (and the consequences).

allegro

11-05-2018, 08:05 PM

Perhaps it begins with fear, which is not a choice, but is then expressed as hate, which could be viewed as a choice in most cases. I am someone who is truly searching for solutions, instead of just adding to the shitpile of hatred on all sides. It's a very lonely position to be in. To me it seems beyond silly to hate someone just because they hate someone else. Nothing positive can be accomplished like that, and our current society is so chock full of negativity that striving for something positive is worth the effort (and the consequences).
Okay, I edited my post, boiling down to this:

Here it is: Attrition.

That's it. Attrition.

Eventually, if we GREATLY INCREASE OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM (akin to that of Asia, etc.), younger people will be far more educated than their ancestors and hate (based on stupidity) will have no place in a civilized society and hate will die off.

Mantra

11-05-2018, 08:16 PM

God, the next 24 hours are going to be pure anxiety and dread and nausea. Ugh, fucking hell.

allegro

11-05-2018, 08:24 PM

God, the next 24 hours are going to be pure anxiety and dread and nausea. Ugh, fucking hell.

I took my Mom (80) to vote, today. For the 2nd time, I had to "assist" her, which means (in Cook County) I had to provide my driver's license and explain WHY I was assisting her (she has glaucoma and she is 80 and they have electronic voting machines that even sometimes *I* can't figure out, LOL). They were VERY nice.

Out front of the building, it was fast. But the guy warned us, once inside it would take A HALF HOUR. (It took us at least this long, and this is in GLENVIEW.) Sure enough, they handed us a number ... 88, and they called out #12. Seeing the news on TV about people waiting THREE HOURS, we felt lucky.

We sat down and waited, chatted ... more than 30 minutes later, Mom seated in the voting booth, I saw WHY it took so long. There were SIX PAGES of choices, holy crap. Mom, heeding Greg's negative opinion about judges, voted NO on retaining every.single.Cook.County.Judge. LOL LOL.

Anyway, next time, Mom is voting by MAIL, LOL. She almost didn't vote, but she felt terrible about it, and changed her mind. She's not "never" voted in her 80 years.

THIS IS SO EXCITING, I WISH I LIVED IN TEXAS FOR ONCE IN MY LIFE SO I COULD HAVE CAMPAIGN FOR BETO!!!!! :)

Oh, and on the way in today, we ran into a very smartly dressed lady (RED BUFFALO PLAID, OMG, I TOTALLY LOVE, MY FAVORITE) who said "HI, I'M JAN SCHAKOWSKY (https://schakowsky.house.gov/)!" and we said "HI!" :-)

It was actually a really fun adventure, we had a great time.

Mantra

11-05-2018, 08:39 PM

I took my Mom (80) to vote, today. For the 2nd time, I had to "assist" her, which means (in Cook County) I had to provide my driver's license and explain WHY I was assisting her (she has glaucoma and she is 80 and they have electronic voting machines that even sometimes *I* can't figure out, LOL). They were VERY nice.

Out front of the building, it was fast. But the guy warned us, once inside it would take A HALF HOUR. (It took us at least this long, and this is in GLENVIEW.) Sure enough, they handed us a number ... 88, and they called out #12. Seeing the news on TV about people waiting THREE HOURS, we felt lucky.

We sat down and waited, chatted ... more than 30 minutes later, Mom seated in the voting booth, I saw WHY it took so long. There were SIX PAGES of choices, holy crap.

Anyway, next time, Mom is voting by MAIL, LOL. She almost didn't vote, but she felt terrible about it, and changed her mind. She's not "never" voted in her 80 years.

THIS IS SO EXCITING, I WISH I LIVED IN TEXAS FOR ONCE IN MY LIFE SO I COULD HAVE CAMPAIGN FOR BETO!!!!! :)

Oh, and on the way in today, we ran into a very smartly dressed lady (RED BUFFALO PLAID, OMG, I TOTALLY LOVE, MY FAVORITE) who said "HI, I'M JAN SCHAKOWSKY (https://schakowsky.house.gov/)!" and we said "HI!" :-)

Haha, that's awesome. Good for your mom.

I don't know, I'm trying to be upbeat, especially since all the polls here in Minnesota are looking pretty good. I guess I'm getting PTSD flashbacks to 2016. Also, if I go into this thing with low expectations, then I won't be let down. I'm getting up at the crack of dawn tomorrow to vote right when the polls open. Gonna be hard to stay focused at work tomorrow.

It's gonna be REAL interesting to see what happens with with our attorney general election. Last I heard Keith Ellison had pulled ahead.

Now that I think of it, I don't have any alcohol!!! Fuck, I'm gonna need to pick up some hard stuff on my way home from work tomorrow, either for celebrating or for grieving.

Mantra

11-05-2018, 08:42 PM

Did you see this thing from SNL the other day? It's basically how I feel right now.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OdNNjCHGixE

Hahaha

allegro

11-05-2018, 08:46 PM

Haha, that's awesome. Good for your mom.

I don't know, I'm trying to be upbeat, especially since all the polls here in Minnesota are looking pretty good. I guess I'm getting PTSD flashbacks to 2016. Also, if I go into this thing with low expectations, then I won't be let down. I'm getting up at the crack of dawn tomorrow to vote right when the polls open. Gonna be hard to stay focused at work tomorrow.

It's gonna be REAL interesting to see what happens with with our attorney general election. Last I heard Keith Ellison had pulled ahead.

Now that I think of it, I don't have any alcohol!!! Fuck, I'm gonna need to pick up some hard stuff on my way home from work tomorrow, either for celebrating or for grieving.

Ugh, God, I fucking hate Keith Ellison. Why the fuck do people still like him? Different thread, I guess.

My hubby went to the Binny's (liquor stores in Chicago area) and bought a BUNCH of champagne and some red wine, and he bought a pretty expensive bottle of champagne in case of a Blue Wave. (crosses fingers) We are getting a bunch of shrimp and pizza and snacks.

I'm pretty hopeful! Cook County has over 1.8 MILLION NEW VOTER REGISTRATIONS THIS TIME, more since 1982! Like, wtf? Not that it could MATTER for US, we're totally blue, and it's probably going to PRITZKER (https://www.jbpritzker.com/) (I voted for him 100% only to legalize pot, otherwise he's a total crook), the EXCITEMENT even around here is NUTS.

But the voter suppression elsewhere is what worries me. In Georgia, Kansas, Texas, Florida, Virginia, Wisconsin, etc. Those Governor's races REALLY matter. The GOVERNOR races can affect the VOTING and gerrymandering.

I'm more excited about the GOVERNOR'S races than ANYTHING, honestly.

Stacey Abrams in Georgia would be the FIRST FEMALE AFRICAN AMERICAN GOVERNOR IN HISTORY.

allegate

11-05-2018, 08:47 PM

That's too accurate to truly be funny. :)

allegro

11-05-2018, 11:08 PM

Mantra

11-05-2018, 11:33 PM

Ugh, God, I fucking hate Keith Ellison. Why the fuck do people still like him? Different thread, I guess.

I mean, not necessarily off topic for this thread. It's the midterms thread after all.

Out of curiosity, if you lived in MN, would you vote for Ellison? Just wondering. I always appreciate hearing your take on things.

Cause this is something I've really had to grapple with for a while now. I voted for his Democratic competitor in the primary after the allegations against him came out, but Ellison still won. So now it's kind of a shitty situation. Doug Wardlow, the Republican running against Ellison, is a fucking nightmare. He said that on his first day in office he'll be firing all Democrats across the board. He's a huge Trump guy. He has a history of being viciously homophobic, even going so far as to laugh at a gay classmate in highschool who had attempted to commit suicide, telling him he "couldn't even do that right." I don't even want to imagine what kind of damage he'll do.

So it's like, wow, great choice we've got here. I love how so much of our politics in this country turns into the crudest exercise in utilitarian ethics, where we find ourselves in these ridiculous situations trying to measure and calculate which person will be "less damaging" than the other. It sucks.

Honestly...I'm probably gonna vote for Ellison tomorrow, and I'm probably gonna feel pretty shitty about it.

Louie_Cypher

11-05-2018, 11:41 PM

Okay, I edited my post, boiling down to this:

Here it is: Attrition.

That's it. Attrition.

Eventually, if we GREATLY INCREASE OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM (akin to that of Asia, etc.), younger people will be far more educated than their ancestors and hate (based on stupidity) will have no place in a civilized society and hate will die off.if we put .001 percent of our current military spending into education we could pay our teachers a living wage. they want you smart enough to get back to work on maggies farm.
-louie

allegro

11-06-2018, 12:08 AM

Out of curiosity, if you lived in MN, would you vote for Ellison? Just wondering. I always appreciate hearing your take on things.

Okay: Personally, myself, I would NOT vote for Ellison. I would not vote for his Republican opponent, either, but I would NOT vote for Ellison. NO fucking way. Nope. Misogynistic, abusive, anti Semitic, NO fucking way. He should not even BE on the ballot, and he’s one big reason why I’m no longer a Democrat and I’m an Independent (who mostly votes Democrat but does NOT support the DNC). Ellison is only there because the Democrats were afraid to tell him to fuck off. N.O.W. came out against him, then backed off. It’s all STUPIDLY PC because he’s black, turning a blind eye toward the female victim. He’s FRIENDS WITH FARRAKHAN, for fuck’s sake. How much more “Gahhhhhh!” do they need?

Mantra

11-06-2018, 01:12 AM

Okay: Personally, myself, I would NOT vote for Ellison. I would not vote for his Republican opponent, either, but I would NOT vote for Ellison. NO fucking way. Nope.
Yeah...I definitely lean this way sometimes. I don't know.

The thing is, I feel sick at the thought of that Republican freak getting in, and I feel like abstaining from voting is the same as voting for him because it ultimately will lead to the same result. If it was you, wouldn't you feel upset knowing that guy got in because Dems abstained? What about all the harm that guy is going to inflict on us?

Misogynistic, abusive, anti Semitic, NO fucking way. He should not even BE on the ballot, and he’s one big reason why I’m no longer a Democrat and I’m an Independent (who mostly votes Democrat but does NOT support the DNC). Ellison is only there because the Democrats were afraid to tell him to fuck off. N.O.W. came out against him, then backed off. It’s all STUPIDLY PC because he’s black, turning a blind eye toward the female victim. He’s FRIENDS WITH FARRAKHAN, for fuck’s sake. How much more “Gahhhhhh!” do they need?

Well, the NOI/Farrakhan shit is old, and Ellison disavowed Farrakhan and NOI years ago for their beliefs. Some people claim that Ellison is actually still on good terms with Farrakhan because there have been a couple documented incidents over the years where they've been in the same meetings, but I feel like those accusations are pretty flimsy. And I mean, Farrakhan has publicly trashed Ellison and seems to view him as a "traitor". Left wing Jewish groups in MN have generally described the accusations of antisemitism as "smear tactics." So I don't know, I myself don't feel comfortable labelling him as an antisemite, not based on the things I've read. The evidence just doesn't seem strong enough and seems wildly inconsistent with the rest of his politics and values.

The homophobia thing is brand new to me. What specifically are you referring to? Do you have a link?

But the abuse allegations... that's the shit that really gets me. I don't know. I keep trying to think "what's the choice that does the most good/least harm?" and can't seem to find a satisfying answer for myself.

Andallthatcouldhavebeen

11-06-2018, 04:45 AM

Getting off of nightshift to head straight to the polls and vote. Its discouraging how many people around me at work tell me there's no point, my voice doesn't matter, blah, blah, blah. Most of these people know I am not as conservative as they are. It's my first mid term election I'm going to vote in (for shame) but I am happy to go. Just had a tornado warning in my area, but if the roads are open, nothing will stop us.

allegro

11-06-2018, 04:54 AM

Mantra, I’d be (sorta, maybe) willing to consider giving Ellison the benefit of the doubt on everything else, like Farrakhan and NoI etc. etc. if I could get past the abuse shit, bleh. Admittedly, I probably listen to Dershowitz too much*. :-). I agree that there is likely some level of smearing involved, because there always is in politics. It’s hard to tell what’s just news and what’s bullshit or what is opinion disguised as news.

Just found this article, thought it was pretty good (https://theslot.jezebel.com/whats-the-deal-with-the-smear-campaign-against-possible-1789571348).

*For instance (https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/national-party-news/321040-i-will-leave-the-democrats-if-keith-ellison-is-elected).

theimage13

11-06-2018, 05:25 AM

Barack Obama was on stage in Chicago’s Grant Park right now declaring victory 10 years ago tonight.

We will always have that. He won by 8.5 million votes.

I was in paralegal grad school at Loyola’s Watertower Law School Campus that night. I drove south down Michigan Avenue toward Grant Park, got as close as I could, in tears, toward the celebration. It was all electric. I still can’t believe it. It’s still miraculous to me.

And now, Stacey Abrams in Georgia. We SHALL overcome.

And to think, the current so-called President LOST by three million votes. I've read article after article after article trying to explain / defend / justify the EC, and I just don't buy it in 2018. That shit needs to go.

I'm going to be livid if Kemp wins. Cruz...I'll be depressed, but not at all surprised. But Kemp is a really dangerous person...he controls the election. If it goes to recount, HE is the one in charge of it and he has refused repeated calls to step down until such time as the election results are clear. Couple that with the overwhelming voting suppression that he's responsible for, and...yeah. Will likely be literally shaking with rage if he wins.

allegro

11-06-2018, 05:44 AM

And to think, the current so-called President LOST by three million votes. I've read article after article after article trying to explain / defend / justify the EC, and I just don't buy it in 2018. That shit needs to go.

I'm going to be livid if Kemp wins. Cruz...I'll be depressed, but not at all surprised. But Kemp is a really dangerous person...he controls the election. If it goes to recount, HE is the one in charge of it and he has refused repeated calls to step down until such time as the election results are clear. Couple that with the overwhelming voting suppression that he's responsible for, and...yeah. Will likely be literally shaking with rage if he wins.

Now Kemp is accusing the Democrats of hacking into the voter database, which is total B.S. and a last-minute attempt to fuck up the election. He is SUCH an asshole.

The EC made sense until the Republicans found a way to game it via gerrymandering etc.

Several states have passed legislation where their EC votes automatically go to the winner of the national popular vote. If all of the states do that, it will render the EC useless

theimage13

11-06-2018, 06:33 AM

Now Kemp is accusing the Democrats of hacking into the voter database, which is total B.S. and a last-minute attempt to fuck up the election. He is SUCH an asshole.

The EC made sense until the Republicans found a way to game it via gerrymandering etc.

Several states have passed legislation where their EC votes automatically go to their state’s winner of the popular vote. If all of the states do that, it will render the EC useless

Yeah, I posted that "hacking" thing a few pages back. What a cock.

Haven't states historically given the EC votes to their respective popular winner anyway? I get that there's a difference between at least having the right to say "nah, fuck the popular vote" and an automatic process, but effectively speaking, hasn't it gone that way most (if not all) of the time anyway? Has there ever been an election that was decided based on the electorate going against their states' popular vote results?

halo eighteen

11-06-2018, 08:54 AM

Just got back from voting. Gretchen Whitmer absolutely must win governor here; Schuette is basically a mini-Trump that already knocked down LGBTQ discrimination protection earlier this year as Attorney General. Not to mention that, working in the media, I can tell you that we've been giving every candidate across the board fair coverage and the ability to come in and make an introduction video/interview. He had rescheduled with us no less than 4 times over the course of about a month and when he finally came in last Thursday, he had the audacity to say that he's pressed for time and needed to be somewhere so make it quick. I hope we didn't even air it.

Also recreational marijuana is on the ballot, and I've no idea what way that'll go but I suspect it'll pass.

Mantra

11-06-2018, 09:22 AM

@Mantra (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=925), I’d be (sorta, maybe) willing to consider giving Ellison the benefit of the doubt on everything else, like Farrakhan and NoI etc. etc. if I could get past the abuse shit, bleh. Admittedly, I probably listen to Dershowitz too much*. :-). I agree that there is likely some level of smearing involved, because there always is in politics. It’s hard to tell what’s just news and what’s bullshit or what is opinion disguised as news.

Just found this article, thought it was pretty good (https://theslot.jezebel.com/whats-the-deal-with-the-smear-campaign-against-possible-1789571348).

*For instance (https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/national-party-news/321040-i-will-leave-the-democrats-if-keith-ellison-is-elected).

Yeah, I read that Dershowitz piece back when it came out, and I think it's really unfair. In general, I feel like Dershowitz went a little bit off the rails some years back. I saw him on TV arguing that torture is morally acceptable and the US has every right to pursue it in the war on terror. So I don't tend to put too much stock in what he says these days. If the DNC making a perfectly reasonable shift to the left means losing people who are so "centrist" that they literally advocate for torture, I can live with that. That other article you posted was really good, and pretty much sums my position on the antisemitism issue.

There's a Twin Cities artist named Ricardo Levins Morales who's kind of influential in the local left wing scene (or at least in the circles I travel in) and he posted this thing on Facebook about the Ellison situation: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157087658128755&set=a.52108378754&type=3

I read that yesterday and found it fairly persuasive. I think that, in general, Morales is a believer in the idea that one can engage in "strategic voting" and still maintain their political integrity. I don't know. I have a feeling I'm gonna find myself in the booth feeling sort of paralyzed by indecision. I wasn't able to make it in before work, so I'll be voting right when I get off.

allegro

11-06-2018, 09:57 AM

There's a Twin Cities artist named Ricardo Levins Morales who's kind of influential in the local left wing scene (or at least in the circles I travel in) and he posted this thing on Facebook about the Ellison situation: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157087658128755&set=a.52108378754&type=3

I read that yesterday and found it fairly persuasive. I think that, in general, Morales is a believer in the idea that one can engage in "strategic voting" and still maintain their political integrity. I don't know. I have a feeling I'm gonna find myself in the booth feeling sort of paralyzed by indecision. I wasn't able to make it in before work, so I'll be voting right when I get off.

Wow, good article. He makes me dislike Ellison even MORE! But, yes, he makes a good argument, PARTICULARLY related to the Attorney General position.

It’s funny about his “Obama Neoliberal Kool-aid” comment (which is true) because all the Trump people on Twitter think Obama is a far-left-wing super-liberal (they haven’t been introduced to the term “progressive,” yet: everyone left of them is just “liberal”).

Re Dershowitz, he sometimes goes totally off-the-rails, he’s often WAY too pro-Israel (to a FAULT, to the point of single-issue obsession), and therefore he can’t STAND Palestine, and I know many Jews who disagree with Israel’s stance on and treatment of Palestine, BUT he still often has what I consider a brilliant legal mind so I still follow him. The torture argument was mostly made relative to 9-11 and getting warrants for it, he wrote a book about the legal arguments and ramifications, etc. based on a “ticking time bomb” scenario that experts (and everyone else) agrees has never existed and likely will never exist. I’ve gotten into these torture arguments with my younger half-brother; torture advocates are under the false impression that torture yields actual, valid, useful data. Experts and reports have indicated, repeatedly, that torture yields faulty data: Dershowitz has said about plea deals that the Defendants often not only sing but also compose, and THE SAME IS SAID ABOUT TORTURE. Anyway ...

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/09/07/the-case-for-torture-warrants/

allegro

11-06-2018, 10:19 AM

Yeah, I posted that "hacking" thing a few pages back. What a cock.

Haven't states historically given the EC votes to their respective popular winner anyway? I get that there's a difference between at least having the right to say "nah, fuck the popular vote" and an automatic process, but effectively speaking, hasn't it gone that way most (if not all) of the time anyway? Has there ever been an election that was decided based on the electorate going against their states' popular vote results?

No, sorry, I meant to say the COUNTRY’s popular vote winner. I edited my above post, thanks.

See this: https://hellogiggles.com/news/states-electoral-college-popular-vote/

https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/written-explanation

Mantra

11-06-2018, 10:48 AM

Why the fuck isn't election day a holiday in this country?

theimage13

11-06-2018, 10:49 AM

No, sorry, I meant to say the COUNTRY’s popular vote winner. I edited my above post, thanks.

See this: https://hellogiggles.com/news/states-electoral-college-popular-vote/

https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/written-explanation

Oooooooooooooooooooh. Now that would be a novel concept. We have to elect the person that the most people vote for!

Surprise, surprise: the only states on board so far are all "blue states". Wonder if we'd ever see a "red state" agree to vote for the national popular vote winner?

Demogorgon

11-06-2018, 10:49 AM

theimage13

11-06-2018, 11:11 AM

If there were no Electoral College, California would decide every general election. If you think that's acceptable because California is progressive, think about if California was a red state and not a blue. Conservatives every four years forever. That's what the EC is supposed to protect against: big states making decisions for everyone. It's not perfect, but it was designed to protect you from a single party essentially creating a dynasty for itself. Remember also that Obama got two terms, and many of you absolutely still love him, and he won EC votes on both occasions. If he had lost the popular votes, those EC votes would have kept him in office regardless, and if that had been the case, i can't imagine most of you would be complaining about it.

Since 1876, every President who lost the popular vote but still made it to office belonged to one party.

"It's not perfect"? "Protects from a single party creating a dynasty"?

Funny, it's only stood to benefit a single party over the last 140 years. Seems like it's utterly failing to do precisely the thing you claim it's good at preventing.

And why on earth does Obama winning the EC mean we're not allowed to like him? He won the popular vote. Literally the only vote I care about. If he'd somehow lost the popular but won the electorate, I'd be the first to concede that Republicans have every right to feel cheated. I also like how you assume that most of us support flaws as long as they help us get what we want. I enjoy being presumed a person of no integrity.

halo eighteen

11-06-2018, 11:15 AM

If there were no Electoral College, California would decide every general election. If you think that's acceptable because California is progressive, think about if California was a red state and not a blue. Conservatives every four years forever. That's what the EC is supposed to protect against: big states making decisions for everyone. It's not perfect, but it was designed to protect you from a single party essentially creating a dynasty for itself. Remember also that Obama got two terms, and many of you absolutely still love him, and he won EC votes on both occasions. If he had lost the popular votes, those EC votes would have kept him in office regardless, and if that had been the case, i can't imagine most of you would be complaining about it.

But he didn't lose the popular vote so there's no use throwing a hypothetical situation that didn't even occur and projecting how people would or wouldn't have approved of that. You're also pretending like no Republican ever has ever won the state of CA, or that everyone in the state votes the same way. Texas is also a highly populated state.

Demogorgon

11-06-2018, 11:51 AM

Since 1876, every President who lost the popular vote but still made it to office belonged to one party.

And that party wasn't ALWAYS the maniacal evil machine that you're saying they are now. *shrug*

"It's not perfect"? "Protects from a single party creating a dynasty"?

Yes on both counts.

Funny, it's only stood to benefit a single party over the last 140 years. Seems like it's utterly failing to do precisely the thing you claim it's good at preventing.

And again, that party was probably not the evil rampaging monster you claim it to be over that entire span. You're so stuck in this us against them mentality. Let it go, dude.

And why on earth does Obama winning the EC mean we're not allowed to like him?

Where did I say that? You're making an implication and an inference that isn't true.

He won the popular vote. Literally the only vote I care about. If he'd somehow lost the popular but won the electorate, I'd be the first to concede that Republicans have every right to feel cheated.

I never said Republicans were cheated. I simply pointed out what the system is designed for and gave you hypothetical examples, because that's how critical thinking works.

I also like how you assume that most of us support flaws as long as they help us get what we want. I enjoy being presumed a person of no integrity.

Again, I did not say that. You are, as per usual, projecting a bunch of antagonistic feelings on me because you don't like what I said.

The point is, with the EC, you win some, and you lose some. Some times you get an amazing candidate who takes it all. Sometimes you get a piece of shit. Without the EC as a possible balance, you run the risk of always getting a piece of shit. If it was clear that one party would always win the popular vote, then every candidate would run on charisma and not on actual governing ability. That's not speculation, that's fact. You can keep on claiming i'm insulting you when I'm not, have at it, but at least try, for the sake of actual conversation, to look at the way government is supposed to work OBJECTIVELY.

Demogorgon

11-06-2018, 11:53 AM

But he didn't lose the popular vote so there's no use throwing a hypothetical situation that didn't even occur and projecting how people would or wouldn't have approved of that. You're also pretending like no Republican ever has ever won the state of CA, or that everyone in the state votes the same way. Texas is also a highly populated state.

My point is not a new point, it's that if there was only popular votes, big states would be the only states that count. Every voice should be important individually, not just the ones assembled into the biggest crowd.

allegro

11-06-2018, 12:08 PM

I used to be a huge proponent of the EC. But the winner-takes-all EC “battleground” states have been deciding entire elections, which isn’t fair, either.

Also, CA’s largest-growing voting group right now ISN’T Democrat or Republican; it’s Independent (http://www.ppic.org/publication/californias-independent-voters/), which the EC completely ignores. The EC is antiquated and unfair.

Demogorgon

11-06-2018, 12:12 PM

I used to be a huge proponent of the EC. But the winner-takes-all EC “battleground” states have been deciding entire elections, which isn’t fair, either. Also, CA’s largest-growing voting group right now ISN’T Democrat or Republican; it’s Independent, which the EC completely ignores. The EC is antiquated and unfair.

I agree that it has problems. I don't like "winner-take-all" and i think the system should be the same across the board. I also think Independents should be given just as much representation as the others because the two-party monopoly is broken. But i also don't think a purely popular vote would help in the long run, mostly for the reason i stated; votes would lean heavily on charisma with the voters and less on actual capability to govern.

theimage13

11-06-2018, 12:12 PM

My point is not a new point, it's that if there was only popular votes, big states would be the only states that count. Every voice should be important individually, not just the ones assembled into the biggest crowd.

So instead the big region of small states with a ton of combined EC votes counts more than a few states with a large share of the actual voting population?

Right. Makes total sense. Great system. You've changed my mind.

(Sorry, I get snippy on election days)

allegro

11-06-2018, 12:17 PM

I agree that it has problems. I don't like "winner-take-all" and i think the system should be the same across the board. I also think Independents should be given just as much representation as the others because the two-party monopoly is broken. But i also don't think a purely popular vote would help in the long run, mostly for the reason i stated; votes would lean heavily on charisma with the voters and less on actual capability to govern.
Some of the biggest “problems” is that the EC in many states can vote for whomever they WANT, and the votes in each state are already so fucking gerrymandered in districts, and the winner-take-all system means all those votes don’t matter, anyway, and the EC is not working when four states in the Rust Belt can determine an election for the entire country by 77,000 fucking votes and, yeah, completely shutting out any candidate other than Democrat or Republican STRICTLY BECAUSE of the EC (because it’s pretty much impossible to get enough EC votes).

And what the FUCK is up with the State of NEW YORK?!?

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-problem-with-voting-rights-in-new-york

If you’re Independent, you’re FUCKED in primary voting. There’s NO early voting except for absentee ballots. The whole thing is crazy archaic bordering on suppression, people are waiting for hours to vote. Why don’t they upgrade and modernize that shit? Or is status quo better?

theimage13

11-06-2018, 12:18 PM

The point is, with the EC, you win some, and you lose some. Some times you get an amazing candidate who takes it all. Sometimes you get a piece of shit. Without the EC as a possible balance, you run the risk of always getting a piece of shit. If it was clear that one party would always win the popular vote, then every candidate would run on charisma and not on actual governing ability. That's not speculation, that's fact. You can keep on claiming i'm insulting you when I'm not, have at it, but at least try, for the sake of actual conversation, to look at the way government is supposed to work OBJECTIVELY.

No, you don't win some and lose some. You only lose some.

And I am looking at it objectively. 3,000,000 MORE people voted for the candidate who didn't win. Objectively, the desire of the United States of America was ignored. Objectively, the EC failed to listen to the will of the majority of voters. Objectively, the loser of the election was declared the winner.

The EC isn't a balance. Name one instance where a horrible monster ran on charisma, won, and the EC stepped in an said "you guys realize he's a serial killer and will plunge the country into chaos, right?" When has that happened? It hasn't. They may have the *option* to vote against the state's ballots, but they don't. Never have, never will.

Demogorgon

11-06-2018, 12:18 PM

So instead the big region of small states with a ton of combined EC votes counts more than a few states with a large share of the actual voting population?

Right. Makes total sense. Great system. You've changed my mind.

(Sorry, I get snippy on election days)

I get what you're saying, brother. I really do. But i think, as i mentioned with allegro, that if the "winner-take-all" was taken out, and the districts in every state were drawn up fairly (which is probably a pipe dream, but oh well) that the system would work as designed more often than not.

Demogorgon

11-06-2018, 12:29 PM

Never have, never will.

Yes, it will, and it will probably happen in your lifetime. It happened in 1930's era Germany, it happens in the Middle East in places that actually hold elections, it can happen here. I hope it doesn't. But this is what the midterms are all about: putting in the people who will (supposedly) use their EC vote to support the best candidate. I've said over and over and over that the midterms are the most important votes you can make, and i mean it. Your midterm votes directly impact the EC you're upset with. Just because the EC picked a shit candidate this time around does not mean it will do the same next time. Next time, we may very well get the charismatic monster, and the EC vote will be the only thing that saves us from having them gain the office.

allegro

11-06-2018, 12:32 PM

I get what you're saying, brother. I really do. But i think, as i mentioned with allegro, that if the "winner-take-all" was taken out, and the districts in every state were drawn up fairly (which is probably a pipe dream, but oh well) that the system would work as designed more often than not.

And by FAIRLY, that would mean that Bernie Sanders or whomever would not be forced to run as a Democrat even though he’s an Independent and Californians (or anybody else) can vote other than Democrat or Republican and their vote would actually COUNT instead of being thrown away because ... EC. The idea that CA would decide every election is probably false, because they don’t all vote one way, anymore. But I’m okay with it, more than I am a mere 77,000 people in the Midwest deciding it for the entire country.

Demogorgon

11-06-2018, 12:35 PM

And by FAIRLY, that would mean that Bernie Sanders or whomever would not be forced to run as a Democrat even though he’s an Independent and Californians (or anybody else) can vote other than Democrat or Republican and their vote would actually COUNT instead of being thrown away because ... EC. The idea that CA would decide every election is probably false, because they don’t all vote one way, anymore. But I’m okay with it, more than I am a mere 77,000 people in the Midwest deciding it for the entire country.

I would be 100% okay with Independents getting a vote on the EC without having to declare as one of the other parties. I don't believe for one second that that EC votes should be restricted to only a particular set of parties. I agree that it does need fixed, and i think it can be fixed. Someone needs to have the guts to propose it and actually get enough momentum to make it happen.

Louie_Cypher

11-06-2018, 12:58 PM

22o million on made up bullshit https://reason.com/blog/2018/11/05/report-pentagon-says-migrant-caravan-doe?fbclid=IwAR1jpEqUsuTJ4Y8B8KPCZRUSSeDosg_AbwmgZ sOSs70q640M_os-1voK4Ec
-louie

Mantra

11-06-2018, 01:01 PM

ltrandazzo

11-06-2018, 01:08 PM

I can't wait for the results to come out so I can lock this thread.

allegro

11-06-2018, 01:09 PM

I would be 100% okay with Independents getting a vote on the EC without having to declare as one of the other parties. I don't believe for one second that that EC votes should be restricted to only a particular set of parties. I agree that it does need fixed, and i think it can be fixed. Someone needs to have the guts to propose it and actually get enough momentum to make it happen.

The thing is re your assertion that the EC prevents a Hitler scenario: (1) Germany didn't see Hitler as "HITLER" when they elected Hitler, and (2) the EC went ahead and elected Trump, anyway, even though there were protests trying to get the EC NOT to vote for Trump.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/12/13/donald-trump-electoral-college-protests-hillary-clinton/95384578/

https://mic.com/articles/162386/anti-donald-trump-groups-will-hold-electoral-college-protests-in-all-50-states-on-december-19#.giH6Td48E

So, these groups in all 50 states SAW the damage that Trump would cause and the EC said "yeah, well, whatever, we are going to elect him because that's democracy blah blah blah." So if Trump turns out to be a total Authoritarian (signs point to him already BEING one), the EC didn't protect us from that AT ALL. It's all just partisan BULLSHIT. The whole thing is really just a dog and pony show made to LOOK like some novel way of making things "fair" but it's just bullshit.

Name one instance where a horrible monster ran on charisma, won, and the EC *failed to step* stepped in and said "you guys realize he's a serial killer nightmare and will plunge the country into chaos, right?" When has that happened?

TRUMP.

Anywayyyyyyy I think, technically, this discussion is in the wrong thread ... eek.

allegro

11-06-2018, 01:16 PM

I can't wait for the results to come out so I can lock this thread.

:)

mostlymad

11-06-2018, 01:22 PM

I can't wait for the results to come out so I can lock this thread.

Now you’re taunting fate to have a clusterfuck like 2000 happen.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Louie_Cypher

11-06-2018, 01:30 PM

Yeah, I just don't buy this theory that the EC somehow prevents the situation where a small number of states dominate the elections. That is literally the exact situation that we face every single election. All that changes with the EC is that it switches what those states are. So rather than the election being dominated by CA, NY and TX, our elections instead are dominated by OH, PA, and FL. How is that better in anyway whatsoever? this is a huge problem. it's def time for a congressional congress. although people smirk when i say this. to put simply time to move our democracy into the the 21st century. there our a ton of things to review examine, 2nd amendment, private money gerrymandering 13th amendment, electronic voting machines. not to throw shade the founders did an amazing job. but maybe just me. but the intentions were that it would be a living document.
-louie

allegro

11-06-2018, 01:52 PM

Meanwhile, in the MidTerm Voting good stuff category:

Yesterday, while waiting in line for my Mom to vote, I noticed this giant, tall poster thingie that said something like "Selfie I-Voted Here" and I was, like, what is that? I was having a brain fart.

Then, a few minutes later, a teenaged girl and her Dad walked up to it, and the girl was, like, "Daaaaaaaaad" and the Dad said, "yeah, come on, we have to do this!" and she stood in front of the sign and held up her "I Voted" sticker and smiled ...

And the Dad proudly took a photo of his daughter, smiling and holding up her "I Voted" sticker in front of the giant poster full of "I VOTED" stickers, after she'd voted for the first time.

IT WAS AWESOME!!!!!

theruiner

11-06-2018, 02:10 PM

^^That makes me so happy!! That's awesome!

I have to say, this was most definitely not my first time voting (as I am of the advanced age of 35) but I felt so much pride after voting last week. And yes, I stopped on my way to the car and snapped a selfie with my I Voted sticker. I hope I never lose that feeling.

theimage13

11-06-2018, 02:11 PM

I'm normally cynical as hell about selfies, but I dig that story.

I'm rarely able to vote in person these days; today being an exception. Made a spur of the moment decision to pick my mom up and go vote together instead of just doing our own thing. Made tea and talked politics afterwards. Nice way to spend the morning. Turns out we're starting to have more differences in that arena than I thought, but we still hold the same general values.

Mantra

11-06-2018, 02:15 PM

Also, I just want to point out that the EC strongly discourages many people from voting. For example, if you're a Republican in New York, there's pretty much no point in you voting in any presidential election. Your vote is essentially cancelled out by the Dems around you. Same holds true if you're a Democrat voting in Alabama. It literally makes no difference whether or not you vote in the presidential election. It's just not a system that encourages all people to vote, which is why I would argue that the electoral college itself is a kind of voter suppression. A simple majority vote would mean that every single vote counts.

Andallthatcouldhavebeen

11-06-2018, 03:11 PM

So, my husband and I went and voted this morning and I guess I can say it was an interesting line waiting experience. We got there and there were supposed to be 3 different lines. Get in line based on what your last name starts with, A-H, I-P, Q-Z. Makes sense. Well, the A-H line was 20 people long when we got there at 8:05 and the other two lines were bare. People kept walking in, and soon the A-H line got to 40 people while anyone who walked in with any other last name got to vote within 5 minutes of walking into the building. It was that awful feeling of being at an amusement park and watching people who paid for fast passes surpass you, as you wait for what feels like an eternity for your turn. We all joked about how inefficient things were there, and I basically had to keep singing songs to my 1 year old so she wouldn't throw a tantrum waiting in line.

We voted though. First time voting in the midterms, and it felt pretty good. One of our options was to allow liquor to be sold in our city and I'm hoping that option finally gets passed, driving 30 minutes for a bottle of anything hard is a bit much. Oh yeah, and I hope Bredesen beats Blackburn. She gets on my nerves.

sweeterthan

11-06-2018, 03:25 PM

I voted for Stacey Abrams today! Fingers crossed.

I saw a clip yesterday of Trump saying he regrets his tone during the election season. I really hope that means the gop is about to lose big.

theimage13

11-06-2018, 05:10 PM

There's a nonprofit set up just to deliver free pizzas to polling places with excessive lines. God Bless America.

https://polls.pizza/

If this doesn't get lazy people to get out and vote, I just don't know what will.

Mantra

11-06-2018, 05:33 PM

Wasn't there some east coast city a few years back --I want to say Philadelphia?-- that wanted to conduct a small lottery among voters? Everybody who voted would automatically be entered, and whoever's name got drawn would win ten grand.

EDIT: yeah this is what I was thinking of: https://www.google.com/amp/s/theweek.com/articles-amp/586623/why-cant-just-pay-people-vote

One city believes it found a way to get more people off their computers and in the voting booth on Election Day. The Philadelphia Citizen, a media company based out of the City of Brotherly Love, gives $10,000 to a random voter — effectively turning the city's local elections into a lottery. While the Citizen's editors recognize that giving out a prize for voting is "sorta icky," the group justifies it by viewing the low voter turnout as "chronic civic participation malaise," arguing that "desperate times call for desperate measures."

lol

Demogorgon

11-06-2018, 05:37 PM

Republicans win Kentucky House seat; first blood. Not like anybody expected much different from Kentucky though, to be honest. Pretty solidly conservative down there.

theimage13

11-06-2018, 05:47 PM

Wasn't there some east coast city a few years back --I want to say Philadelphia?-- that wanted to conduct a small lottery among voters? Everybody who voted would automatically be entered, and whoever's name got drawn would win ten grand.

EDIT: yeah this is what I was thinking of: https://www.google.com/amp/s/theweek.com/articles-amp/586623/why-cant-just-pay-people-vote

lol

I mean....it's depressing as hell that they even have to think of things like this. But my only major concern with it would be if they were doing it in a heavily gerrymandered area. As in "hey, we can increase turnout from X party if we put a financial incentive on this". If you were doing it in an area that was legitimately diverse as far as voter registration goes, I'd be less concerned with it.

allegro

11-06-2018, 05:51 PM

Last-minute lawsuit filed in Georgia to try to extend the polling times past 7, because several polling locations were closed down for more than 2 hours because the voting machines' batteries died and nobody could find the power cords. Totally serious. Wtf. Also, many voters were turned away due to "exact match" even though the recent lawsuit against Kemp was to prevent this.

This is per MSNBC coverage.

That Kemp, what a total piece of shit. Georgia polls are to close at 7 pm Eastern, like MINUTES from now. There are still HUGE lines.

Meanwhile, in Chicago, five polling locations have extended their hours past 7. Also, many voters in Chicago were not given Page 2 of the ballot in several locations. Wtf.

allegro

11-06-2018, 05:54 PM

Republicans win Kentucky House seat; first blood. Not like anybody expected much different from Kentucky though, to be honest. Pretty solidly conservative down there.

It's tie right now according to MSNBC .. are you talking about McGrath / Barr? (Or Rogers, probably.)

Demogorgon

11-06-2018, 05:55 PM

Why in the hells would they run voting machines on batteries to begin with? That's asinine.

Demogorgon

11-06-2018, 05:57 PM

It's tie right now according to MSNBC .. are you talking about McGrath / Barr?

Rogers vs. Stepp. Race is called in favor of Rogers (Republican) according to Associated Press.

Edit: i see the race you're talking about, it's just been updated. Currently leading Blue by a smidge according to AP.

Mantra

11-06-2018, 06:06 PM

allegro

11-06-2018, 06:11 PM

Alright, just got back from voting straight blue, including Ellison. Man I hope I don't live to regret that. *sigh*

Picked up a bottle of Jameson on the way home and I'm about to crack it open while I heat up some soup and fire up approximately 80 chrome tabs of election coverage on my laptop and pray for the best. Cheers y'all. *Raising glass* Here's to our glorious american democracy.

I'm passing ya some of our shrimp and cocktail sauce, we got a pound of it. Or we have Detroit-style deep dish pizza if you don't like shrimp. Cheers. :)

I'm glued to MSNBC and Steve Kornacki's Big Board all night plus Twitter.

MSNBC has a feed but it appears to be a bit delayed: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc-live

Demogorgon

11-06-2018, 06:15 PM

Bernie easily takes Vermont, by the look of things. A lot of the "well, no surprises here" seats might be getting finished up right out the gate.

allegro

11-06-2018, 06:27 PM

One thing that some people may not know about Georgia: Either Kemp or Abrams MUST win at least 50% or they have to have a runoff in December.

MSNBC says that Cruz team modeling had TWO MILLION LESS VOTERS than what actually showed up in Texas; and nobody knows anything about those additional 2 million voters ...

Now trending on Twitter, #stayinline, if you are in line in Florida or Georgia, stay in line, they MUST leave the polls open to let you vote. Pizzas are being delivered.

Mantra

11-06-2018, 06:33 PM

I'm passing ya some of our shrimp and cocktail sauce, we got a pound of it. Or we have Detroit-style deep dish pizza if you don't like shrimp. Cheers. :)

I'm glued to MSNBC and Steve Kornacki's Big Board all night plus Twitter.

MSNBC has a feed but it appears to be a bit delayed: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc-live

Ooh, awesome, thanks!

Demogorgon

11-06-2018, 06:37 PM

The senate race in Florida is intense. Seems like every time i refresh the map, the color changes.

sweeterthan

11-06-2018, 06:40 PM

allegro

11-06-2018, 06:42 PM

I really hope there’s not a run off. The turn out is already so huge. It would be tough to do it all again.

UNLESS there is evidence of a lot of voter suppression, and the Dems and the NAACP etc. are able to win a suit to REMOVE Kemp from the Secy of State position before the runoff so that he has NOTHING to do with the runoff so he and his staff can't suppress the vote, again?

I mean, can't find power cords? FOR TWO HOURS? In minority areas that would heavily lean toward Abrams? Seriously? THAT really sounds deliberate.

Mantra

11-06-2018, 06:44 PM

Oh great, it's fucking snowing. It's our very first snow of the season, tonight of all nights. Great.

This isn't an omen, right? RIGHT?!

allegro

11-06-2018, 06:46 PM

A good omen!!!!! ;) (I got new ski boots the end of last season, heh)

Tiny amounts of votes coming in from Georgia in outlying counties that are heavily Republican white areas, still waiting for the populated areas ... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE IF THERE IS A GOD, LET STACEY ABRAMS WIN BY A LANDSLIDE!!!

sweeterthan

11-06-2018, 06:57 PM

UNLESS there is evidence of a lot of voter suppression, and the Dems and the NAACP etc. are able to win a suit to REMOVE Kemp from the Secy of State position before the runoff so that he has NOTHING to do with the runoff so he and his staff can't suppress the vote, again?

I mean, can't find power cords? FOR TWO HOURS? In minority areas that would heavily lean toward Abrams? Seriously? THAT really sounds deliberate.

That sounds really optimistic to me. I’m cynical of the politics in my state. I don’t understand how he was able to get this far while keeping his SOS position. Before voting started lots of people were like how can this be? And here we are at Election Day.

Demogorgon

11-06-2018, 06:59 PM

Kaine wins senate seat in Virginia.

Mantra

11-06-2018, 07:01 PM

Oh this is unfuckingbelievable

https://twitter.com/wsbtv/status/1059946786515759107?s=19

zero

11-06-2018, 07:03 PM

https://i.imgur.com/RM9R0ij.jpg

Demogorgon

11-06-2018, 07:04 PM

Oh this is unfuckingbelievable

If i were to place a bet, i'd say that's already setting groundwork to attempt to justify a recount if his election chances go sideways.

Demogorgon

11-06-2018, 07:06 PM

5 more senate seats turn blue including Warren in Massachusetts.

october_midnight

11-06-2018, 07:08 PM

Holy shit Ted Cruz is getting slapped around. I know it's early, but come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

allegro

11-06-2018, 07:18 PM

Here is some good news for tonight:

DEFEATED: Kim Davis, Who Refused to Issue Marriage Licenses to Gay Couples, Has Lost Her County Clerk Seat In Kentucky’s Rowan County

allegro

11-06-2018, 07:41 PM

AMEN TO THIS TWEET:

https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1059900735880601601?s=21

Mantra

11-06-2018, 07:42 PM

Man... Florida :(

allegro

11-06-2018, 07:44 PM

Yeah, James Carville is saying he's disappointed that this ain't gonna be a blue wave. Dems may flip the House but maybe just squeaking by ... HEY, I'LL TAKE IT!!

Still hoping for some of these Governor's wins, though, the night is still young ...

Pritzker just won the Governor race in Illinois. Which means we are likely to get legalized recreational pot.

Mantra

11-06-2018, 07:59 PM

It's just crazy how the polls were showing Gillum consistently ahead: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2018/governor/fl/florida_governor_desantis_vs_gillum-6518.html#polls

And then you see how it's actually going down. Ugh.

allegro

11-06-2018, 08:11 PM

As Joy Reid (MSNBC) just said in Florida, though, just wait ... Broward County etc comes in slow, don't count it all out, yet. Florida is notoriously slow, it's what fucked up the 2000 election.

re polls and Gillum, the concern is if the Bradley Effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect) is in play, here.

Mantra

11-06-2018, 08:14 PM

Mantra

11-06-2018, 08:17 PM

allegro

11-06-2018, 08:19 PM

Fucking tired of these people claiming the Kavanaugh vote is some deciding factor in all this. Like, North Dakota has had major issues with voter suppression, Native Americans specifically being targeted and disinfranchised, but they're not talking about shit like that, instead they're just claiming it was all about the Kavanaugh vote, just straight up manufacturing narrative.
If it IS true, we're fucking doomed because we're fucking stupid. Dems should have simultaneously pushed the narrative that Kavanaugh lied under oath in the Senate hearings in 2003 and 2006, PLUS they should have PUBLICLY OUTED THIS CASE WAYYYYYYY MORE THAN THEY DID (https://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/C81A5EDEADAE82F2852581C30068AF6E/$file/17-5236-1701167.pdf).

Deepvoid

11-06-2018, 08:24 PM

Doesn't look there will be a huge blue wave.
Republicans will increase their majority in the Senate. Hopefully, Dems can still take the House but it's definitely not the tsunami some predicted.

allegro

11-06-2018, 08:32 PM

It's pretty damned hard to turn a red state blue these days because ... racism.

Mantra

11-06-2018, 08:40 PM

Yeah I mean, that's the thing, isn't it? America is fucking racist. The end.

Mantra

11-06-2018, 08:45 PM

Deepvoid

11-06-2018, 08:47 PM

Yeah I think that's a legit conclusion. Racists have now a leader they never had and they are coming out in force.

I know it's pretty early but this doesn't bode well for 2020. Dems need to get their shit together and find a way to connect with voters. They are not being effective right now. There's a struggle between progressives and establishment Dems within the party.

allegro

11-06-2018, 08:53 PM

What's the deal in Vermont? I don't get it. Sanders won by a landslide, but the Republican governor is way ahead? Who are these strange human beings who are voting for both Sanders and a fucking Republican.

Sanders is an Independent who has adequately represented his wealthy constituents.

Sanders has two personas: one serves the national progressive interests, the other serves the interests of his wealthy constituents in Vermont.

Mantra

11-06-2018, 08:58 PM

Minnesota is looking great so far!! Oh thank God, my soul needed this.

Conan The Barbarian

11-06-2018, 09:13 PM

ABC is calling Cruz for the win. Fuck. So close.

Deepvoid

11-06-2018, 09:15 PM

ABC is calling Cruz for the win. Fuck. So close.

No one else has called it for Cruz yet. It's definitely closed than I thiught it would be.

Mantra

11-06-2018, 09:15 PM

Fuck

Mantra

11-06-2018, 09:17 PM

No one else has called it for Cruz yet. It's definitely closed than I thiught it would be.

CBS called it for him too

I don't understand WHY, cause it's still incredibly close and 79 percent reporting in

Deepvoid

11-06-2018, 09:20 PM

CBS called it for him too

I don't understand WHY, cause it's still incredibly close and 79 percent reporting in

NBC called it too. CNN has not called it yet

onthewall2983

11-06-2018, 09:23 PM

Gretchen Whitmer just flipped Michigan

Conan The Barbarian

11-06-2018, 09:28 PM

Dems have taken the house.

Deepvoid

11-06-2018, 09:29 PM

CNN finally called Cruz and Senate to GOP.

Deepvoid

11-06-2018, 09:30 PM

Bloomberg just called the House to the Democrats

onthewall2983

11-06-2018, 09:31 PM

Things are gonna get ugly in Washington.

hellospaceboy

11-06-2018, 09:41 PM

Not the blue wave I was hoping for. (and now I truly believe that Trump can win reelection... fuck.)

Conan The Barbarian

11-06-2018, 09:49 PM

Not the blue wave I was hoping for. (and now I truly believe that Trump can win reelection... fuck.)

Plenty of fresh voters turn 18 between now and then, gotta get them kids out there and involved.

allegro

11-06-2018, 09:54 PM

NBC called it too. CNN has not called it yet

A few networks like CBS amended their call saying it’s too close and too early to call with not enough precincts reporting ... maybe it’s wishful thinking but I’m not giving up hope (re Beto).

Mantra

11-06-2018, 10:09 PM

God, I would do anything to see Walker go down.

allegro

11-06-2018, 10:16 PM

LAUREN UNDERWOOD WON IN ILLINOIS’ 14TH CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT!!! She’s a black Registered Nurse who ran because she has pre-existing conditions and was pissed at Randy Hultgren for siding with Trump on Healhcare so she ran for Hultgren’s seat. YES!!!

AND PETER ROSKAM LOST!!!!

Yes!!!!!

Kuame Raul just won Attorney General of Illinois.

Mantra

11-06-2018, 10:21 PM

Dryalex12

11-06-2018, 10:22 PM

Florida....i know the senate doesn't matter anymore......

but your at 99.5%......and you still cant fucking decide.........jesus fuck...

richardp

11-06-2018, 10:40 PM

A few things:

As no surprise, Missouri went deeper red then it already was. I wanted to believe that we'd come through and not elect that fucking nazi Josh Hawly, but alas. We'd finally rid ourselves of the atrocity that was Grietens, only to give this fucking assclown a higher position of power after BARELY serving a term as our AG. Dude gets elected to AG and literally does FUCK ALL with his job, and yet the dumb hicks in this state give him a fucking promotion because this state has that same absurd mentality with Claire McCaskill that everyone has with Hilary.

But I am fucking SHOOK at how hard Kansas went tonight. Democratic governor AND first Native American woman elected to Congress. I genuinely never thought I would be jealous of Kansas. Missouri is the fucking WORST. I'm genuinely very excited for the people of Kansas tonight. That state is beyond fucked so they need all the help they can get.

Back to Missouri, it's fucking fantastic to see Minimum Wage get approved. Hopefully it is able to fix the people in St Louis who voted for a hike, and then had it ripped out from under them a few months later by Eric Greitens. Also INCREDIBLY excited to see that Medical Marijuana passed. This is something that came a lot sooner in Missouri than I imagined, so I'm super SUPER thrilled with this.

And lastly, so now that the Dems have seemingly retaken the House, what is our next step? Does it actually matter since the GOP gained majority in the senate? Is there anything that the House can logistically and realistically do at this point to start putting a stop to the Trump agenda? Is this a bigger win than it feels like it is?

allegro

11-06-2018, 10:40 PM

God, I would do anything to see Walker go down.

I hate Scott Walker, he’s SUCH a dick. That Foxconn deal in Mt Pleasant WI cost the state billions and will net them zero jobs other than construction of the expressway and the building; and Foxconn has downsized its original plan and it’s going to use robotics on the line. It will take YEARS for WI taxpayers to recover from those concessions.

richardp, the Democrats taking the House is HUGE!!! They now take the head of every House Committee, including the House Intel Committee (formerly headed by crooked Devin Nunes). Also, the Republicans changed a rule in 2016 wherein the House could issue subpoenas WITHOUT obtaining permission from or informing the minority and now the Democrats have this ability related to Trump etc. Nancy Pelosi will be the Speaker of the House, again (which I fully endorse and applaud). That means she and the Democrats control: Entitlements, Tax Amendments, Impeachments, Ethics investigations, anything related to funding and money, etc.

Mantra

11-06-2018, 10:50 PM

Jesus, Wisconsin, PLEASE.

I can't believe how close it is. Unbelievable.

allegro

11-06-2018, 11:15 PM

Monumental in my home state, Michigan:

https://twitter.com/aclu/status/1060029865682964481?s=21

This modernizes the voting system for the first time since 1975. And it brought BACK our beloved straight-ticket voting for good!

Plus, they legalized recreational marijuana!

And elected a Democratic Governor!

richardp

11-06-2018, 11:18 PM

@richardp (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=139), the Democrats taking the House is HUGE!!! They now take the head of every House Committee, including the House Intel Committee (formerly headed by crooked Devin Nunes). Also, the Republicans changed a rule in 2016 wherein the House could issue subpoenas WITHOUT obtaining permission from or informing the minority and now the Democrats have this ability related to Trump etc. Nancy Pelosi will be the Speaker of the House, again (which I fully endorse and applaud). That means she and the Democrats control: Entitlements, Tax Amendments, Impeachments, Ethics investigations, anything related to funding and money, etc.

Oh wow, HELL YES. Things are going to get fucking INTENSE very quickly if this is the case.

halo eighteen

11-06-2018, 11:31 PM

Monumental in my home state, Michigan:

This modernizes the voting system for the first time since 1975.

Plus, they legalized recreational marijuana!

And elected a Democratic Governor!

We truly are a swing state in that - as long as I've been alive - we've elected someone from alternating parties every time the term limit is reached. In that sense, I was expecting Whitmer but you never can be sure. It almost feels like we haven't even had a governor for the last 8 years though. Snyder is practically invisible, and I assume it has everything to do with his complacency regarding the Flint water mess, which is still just fucking absurd that nothing has been done about that.

Women have absolutely rocked the results here tonight in my district; Gretchen Whitmer as our 2nd female governor, Debbie Stabenow winning her US Senate re-election, Jocelyn Benson as Secretary of State, Dana Nessel as AG, Elissa Slotkin for US Rep, Kara Hope for State Rep. Some of those are too close to call yet. All that with the proposals passing too just has me feeling relief right now.

allegro

11-06-2018, 11:58 PM

We truly are a swing state in that - as long as I've been alive - we've elected someone from alternating parties every time the term limit is reached. In that sense, I was expecting Whitmer but you never can be sure. It almost feels like we haven't even had a governor for the last 8 years though. Snyder is practically invisible, and I assume it has everything to do with his complacency regarding the Flint water mess, which is still just fucking absurd that nothing has been done about that.

Women have absolutely rocked the results here tonight in my district; Gretchen Whitmer as our 2nd female governor, Debbie Stabenow winning her US Senate re-election, Jocelyn Benson as Secretary of State, Dana Nessel as AG, Elissa Slotkin for US Rep, Kara Hope for State Rep. Some of those are too close to call yet. All that with the proposals passing too just has me feeling relief right now.
Yup, I had a good feeling that the Dems would swing it back after Snyder should be IN PRISON because of Flint. Stabenow, I don’t know, there were a WHOLE LOT of Michigan Republican loudmouth douchebags on Twitter gunning against her. But it looks like the Flint Effect caused a Michigan Blue Wave. Yay, Michigan women!!!!

Term limits for Governor weren’t imposed until 1992. Engler served three terms until he was term-limited.

(I was born during Swainson, LOL LOL which of course I totally do not remember, but I DO remember George Romney and all the rest)

John B. Swainson 1961-1962 D
George Romney 1963-1969 R
William G. Milliken 1969-1982 R
James J. Blanchard 1983-1990 D
John M. Engler 1991-2002 R
Jennifer M. Granholm 2003-2010 D
Rick Snyder 2011-2018 R

Illinois is pretty much a swing state when it comes to Governors, too. Illinois hasn’t had a female Governor, yet, though! Wtf!

ALSO IN MICHIGAN: PROPOSAL 2 WON!!! AWESOME!!!!

https://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/11/what_the_passage_of_proposal_2.html

halo eighteen

11-07-2018, 12:04 AM

Yup, I had a good feeling that the Dems would swing it back after Snyder should be IN PRISON because of Flint. Stabenow, I don’t know, there were a WHOLE LOT of Michigan Republican loudmouth douchebags on Twitter gunning against her. But it looks like the Flint Effect caused a Michigan Blue Wave.

Term limits for Governor weren’t imposed until 1992. Engler served three terms until he was term-limited.

I was born during Swainson, LOL LOL.

John B. Swainson 1961-1962 D
George Romney 1963-1969 R
William G. Milliken 1969-1982 R
James J. Blanchard 1983-1990 D
John M. Engler 1991-2002 R
Jennifer M. Granholm 2003-2010 D
Rick Snyder 2011-2018 R

wow lol, I guess Milliken would've been governor when I was born, but I really only remember from Blanchard on. That's really fucking gross that Engler got 3 terms. Even more gross yet I still have to see his face on TV a lot since he's (laughably) the current President of MSU. I'm ashamed to be a Spartan lately.

leo3375

11-07-2018, 12:15 AM

Mantra

11-07-2018, 12:45 AM

Minnesota went hella blue this year! In addition to keeping Amy Klobuchar and Tina Smith in the US Senate, the Second and Third Congressional districts went to Democrats (buh-bye, Erik Paulsen!). Voters in Minneapolis elected Ilhan Omar to Congress, making her the first Somali-American Congressional representative and one of two Muslim women in Congress. (The other being Rashida Tlaib of Michigan.) The major State offices (Governor and Lieutenant Governor, Attorney General, Secretary of State, and State Auditor) were also won by Democrats. I love my state!

Also, Dave Hutch for Hennepin County Sheriff!

The previous sheriff, Stanuck, was just horrendous. He openly collaborates with ICE to help terrorize immigrants in our community. He also sent a bunch of our officers over to the Standing Rock protests. I'll never forgive him for that. Big surprise, he's a huge Trump idiot. Just an awful person in every single way.

Dave Hutch, on the other hand, is a great dude. I met him after my last caucus and I was so impressed with him. He's specifically talked a lot about Stanuck's abuse of immigrants. He explained that, as sheriff, there are certain things you're required to do by law with regard to undocumented immigrants, but Stanuck was incredibly aggressive and went way beyond the law. He talked at length about how we're a community, and immigrants are part of that, and in fact they often don't reach out to police when they're in trouble out of fear of being caught, which is why they're so vulnerable to crime and abuse. He stressed that police should serve everyone in the community. After hearing so much of Trump's rhetoric, his words were like a breath of fresh air, and I am overjoyed that he won!

allegro

11-07-2018, 01:03 AM

Tony Evers beat Scott Walker in Wisconsin.

(Doing my happy dance.)

Aladdinsanity

11-07-2018, 03:14 AM

My two cents.
https://twitter.com/Cassavete/status/1060016440999206912

elevenism

11-07-2018, 05:14 AM

I honestly thought Beto was going to beat Ted Cruz for a minute.

I still see him as a possible presidential candidate.

theimage13

11-07-2018, 05:23 AM

100% convinced that the Georgia race was decided via voter suppression. I do not believe that Kemp would have won in a fair, unrestricted election.

Haysey_Draws

11-07-2018, 05:43 AM

There's an Instagram post from The Independent doing the rounds showing someone using a touch screen to vote Democrat and it just constantly selecting Republican. I dunno whether it's real or not...but that's a scary thought.

theimage13

11-07-2018, 06:00 AM

Haysey_Draws

11-07-2018, 06:06 AM

Link? Not seeing that anywhere.

This was it

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bp4GFIHna5f/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=itc2a00lspn5

chuckrh

11-07-2018, 06:10 AM

back to gridlock. yay.

theimage13

11-07-2018, 06:14 AM

back to gridlock. yay.

Yeah, because total control by one party is sooooooo much better.

theimage13

11-07-2018, 06:17 AM

This was it

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bp4GFIHna5f/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=itc2a00lspn5

Interesting. My guess is it's a shitty digitizer, but I wouldn't rule out tampering without an independent investigation by tech professionals.

Haysey_Draws

11-07-2018, 06:38 AM

Interesting. My guess is it's a shitty digitizer, but I wouldn't rule out tampering without an independent investigation by tech professionals.

Yeah that was my assumption, i didn't want to go all in on "they've hacked the tech" just yet. Could just be an isolated incident...i hope it's just an isolated incident.

chuckrh

11-07-2018, 06:48 AM

Yeah, because total control by one party is sooooooo much better.
don't misunderstand me, none of it is good. & it's all a farce since the big corporations are the ones really running things. here in seattle we had a carbon tax on the ballot that was defeated. big oil dumped tons of money into defeating it, including buying endorsements from all the major newspapers in the state. totally disgusting.

ltrandazzo

11-07-2018, 06:57 AM

So, let's break this down -

This is the big national news - Democrats retake the House after losing it in 2010. This kills the legislative agenda of Donald Trump for the next two years. No more attempts to repeal ACA, no more tax cuts for billionaires and corporations, no strict immigration laws. Nancy Pelosi is likely to become the Speaker even though she will face a potential win by a smaller margin than previous speakers. Many young progressives won their House races.

Democrats picked up several Governorships, notable in Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, Kansas, New Mexico and Nevada. Some orgs have called Maine as well. This gives more states the ability to un-fuck their gerrymandered districts post-2020 census and will allow states to start passing progressive agendas that could gain popularity nationwide. Of note, Andrew Gillum lost to Ron DeSantis by what could be less than 1 point while Georgia has not been finalized. Stacey Abrams has predicted a runoff vote amidst reports of major voting issues at polls and constant fuckery by the SOS and her opponent, Brian Kemp. Kris Kobach, a staunch anti-voting rights SOS was defeated in Kansas by State Sen. Laura Kelly.

The GOP held onto the Senate and flipped several seats including Missouri, Indiana and North Dakota. Arizona, Montana and Florida have not been called yet, but Republicans are holding slim leads in those polls. This was always going to be the rough spot for Dems since they were defending so many seats in states that went for Trump in 2016 and Romney in 2012. Of note, Beto O'Rourke lost to Ted Cruz by less than 3 points in a race that Cruz should've blown out, and Beto's wave helped Dems flip two seats in the House.

In a world where Donald Trump lost to Hillary Clinton by 3 points nationally but won the right states to win the EC, and where Democrats look to have outvoted Republicans in this midterm by more than 9 WHOLE POINTS in a deeply gerrymandered political map, this is likely the best-case scenario overall. I will take these results, even though I saw tough losses in my home state of Missouri and my current occupied state of Tennessee, and I am VERY ENCOURAGED by the reported turnout along with the political action of many new volunteers to get out the vote and start taking this thing back.

We should be mad as hell about what's happening in Georgia, that racism motivated A LOT of voters to turnout and vote for Republicans, and that Beto O'Rourke won't be replacing Ted Cruz, but there is a lot of good news and good shifts in certain parts of this country that were seen as off limits to progressive ideas. We need to harness that momentum and continue to ride it forward. This wasn't going to be fixed in one election, and it's going to take MANY MORE elections to change a lot of this bullshit we deal with in the US, but the ballot measures that passed in states like Florida for convicted felons and their voting rights, minimum wages votes, medicaid expansion votes, the unanimous jury vote in Louisiana, and many others show that we can win common-sense arguments.

Deepvoid

11-07-2018, 07:01 AM

Trump is on a Twitter binge about how last night was a huge victory and whatnot. He cannot get more pathetic than that.

Haysey_Draws

11-07-2018, 07:08 AM

I'm genuinely surprised he hasn't started blaming Dem's for cheating or something.

klyrish

11-07-2018, 07:31 AM

Tony Evers beat Scott Walker in Wisconsin.

(Doing my happy dance.)
I can't believe he was finally dethroned. Maybe Kohl's will hire him as a spokesperson since his entire presidential campaign was built around getting a sweater for $1 from them.

theimage13

11-07-2018, 07:37 AM

I honestly thought Beto was going to beat Ted Cruz for a minute.

I still see him as a possible presidential candidate.

I hope to god he runs in the near future. I'm honestly not excited about ANY of the potential 2020 contenders I've heard mentioned.

Mantra

11-07-2018, 07:44 AM

Oh hell yeah, Walker's out!!!!!

I must have gone to bed right before they called it, I assumed it was going to be neck and neck all night and then end up being a recount. So glad to wake up and see that he's fucking GONE. Finally!! After all these years. Good riddance to that nightmare. So happy for Wisconsin right now. They REALLY needed this.

Louie_Cypher

11-07-2018, 08:53 AM

crazy not quite the wave had hoped for but did stay up till about 3 watching coverage. i know it doesn't matter Richie rich is still going to claim how greet he's doing this wasn't a rejection of him or his leadership. i know it's beyond hope that pelosi steps up hold this shit head accountable. mueller should be locked and loaded. i thing Flynn Cohen are due for sentencing. another thing i doubt is that we can quit hearing about the caravan. how their being bussed funded helped by anyone who opposes the shit head. an d shit head. get your ass back to Washington and do your damn job and quit flying around wasting the money i had to send you in April on jet fuel lodging and secret service for you hate rallies. i know you'll figure out some excuse to not do your job and run around sowing division and hate. and democrats you get your lazy asses to work too you know longer have the excuse of nothing you can do. let's get to work on dacca medicare for all 15$ minimum wage and a ton of other things you can do to make America function again and start building momentum for a real wave in 2020. sorry Cruz hung on Georgia results results still pending. but their is a tiny glimmer of hope and maybe just maybe we can ride out this shit storm and become a normal 1st wold nation again
-louie

ekrekel

11-07-2018, 08:58 AM

.....And it brought BACK our beloved straight-ticket voting for good!

I’m not a political guru by any means but why is this a good thing? Increased voter turnout or to speed up the line? I think it contributes to the us vs then mentality and disincentives researching candidates.

ltrandazzo

11-07-2018, 09:20 AM

Alright, time for some shit talk.

Claire McCaskill and Phil Bredesen earned their losses last night.

For me, Phil was a colossal disappointment and I was worried about him since this past summer. He sought a centrist tone that helped him win the TN governorship back in the day, but failed to understand that the politics of today are much different than they are now. He seemed like a nice guy, but was indecisive as hell and wouldn't be EXTRA clear to his supporters about what he stood for and why. It was all platitudes every day about bipartisanship and working with the other side and that he would be at odds with his own party. Guess what Phil? You needed us to vote for you first, dummy! His Kavanaugh announcement made zero fucking sense and reeked of DC paid advisory. I don't know if a liberal progressive can win in TN yet, but the next person to run for senator in two years against Lamar Alexander or his successor should give it a shot because we have Aunt Lydia as our senator now.

Claire. I really admire and like Claire McCaskill, and she constantly pissed me off this go-round. Josh Hawley is a complete moron who vowed in 2016 that he did not view his AG position as a ladder, and then announced his Senate run at around ONE year into his term. He was photographed buying wine on a Tuesday at 2pm and working out at the gym at 10am on a Thursday. His AG office in Jefferson City is run by DC consultants. He's an idiot. But he's a Republican, and while I don't have the final numbers in front of me, I can say that Claire struggled with turnout in the metro areas of Missouri and that her bipartisanship likely contributed to it. She said during her concession speech last night that as a US Senator, you can't say what you really feel, but that she would be saying more of what she really feels going forward. I can't miss the irony in that.

Ugh.

theruiner

11-07-2018, 09:22 AM

I’m not a political guru by any means but why is this a good thing? Increased voter turnout or to speed up the line? I think it contributes to the us vs then mentality and disincentives researching candidates.
I gotta say, as a trans person, one party is trying to take away my rights and the other party isn't. There is zero incentive for me to vote for a Republican. When a party's stance on you as a human being is that you shouldn't exist, there is absolutely no reason to ever consider supporting them.

And that's only one of the many, MANY reasons why that whole party is a dumpster fire.