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onthewall2983
01-01-2018, 09:14 AM
I suggest now would be a good time to lock the 2017 thread up, and keep the party going here! woo-hoo...

theimage13
01-01-2018, 09:34 AM
I would suggest we just drop the "2017" from the title and have one thread for the administration instead of breaking it up. Trump's already dividing America; don't let him divide ETS threads too!

onthewall2983
01-01-2018, 10:27 AM
And rid the world of one of my best puns?

thevoid99
01-03-2018, 08:32 PM
Can we subtitle this as MINUS YEAR ONE?

RhettButler
01-03-2018, 08:48 PM
How about Trump: 2018--the resignation.

Louie_Cypher
01-03-2018, 10:00 PM
heard something interesting that he never thought he would get elected which is why he never showed his taxes it was all just an exercise in branding, the deal he made with the Russians he could get the money and never have to pay up. sorry I'm just s regular citizen, sorry Vlad.
_louie

RhettButler
01-03-2018, 10:23 PM
So apparently there's some kind of book coming out:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/03/donald-trump-michael-wolff-book-highlights

allegro
01-03-2018, 11:00 PM
So apparently there's some kind of book coming out:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/03/donald-trump-michael-wolff-book-highlights

yeah it’s been a crazy News day https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5a4cde0be4b0b0e5a7a9fe93

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/us/politics/trump-bannon.html?referer=https://www.google.com/


theimage13 : Manafort suit = typical legal defensive stuff

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-03/manafort-claims-mueller-overstepped-authority-with-his-charges

RhettButler
01-04-2018, 05:36 AM
Some highlights (lowlights) from the new book:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/15-behind-scenes-tales-new-book-trump-s-white-house-n834476?cid=sm_npd_ms_fb_ma

allegro
01-04-2018, 10:18 AM
Sessions HATES pot, but this could spark an uprising that will lead to his demise:

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/04/politics/jeff-sessions-cole-memo/index.html

allegate
01-04-2018, 11:16 AM
Republicans: All about States Rights until it's something they don't like.

skullboy0
01-04-2018, 12:11 PM
Republicans: All about States Rights until it's something they don't like.

Deficits matter, until we raise them, then they don't.

Sarah K
01-04-2018, 12:50 PM
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/michael-wolff-fire-and-fury-book-donald-trump.html

Horrible.

YouOftenForget
01-04-2018, 01:55 PM
Republicans: All about States Rights until it's something they don't like.

A good quote taken from twitter: "'Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work, then get elected and prove it' - P.J. O'Rourke"

mrselfdestruct94
01-04-2018, 04:21 PM
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/michael-wolff-fire-and-fury-book-donald-trump.html

Horrible.

When this presidency is over, whether by impeachment or in 2020, or after eight long years, we as a country are going to have to reflect and do some serious soul searching about our elected officials, our political parties, the entire election process, and how we have spoken about and treated one another throughout this entire joke of a political era. How our citizens either rallied behind a loud, pathetic, and ludicrous figurehead who personified and gave voice to their fears of social, racial, progressive, and political issues, however misinformed, or bitched and moaned behind a computer screen or phone or tablet while complaining to their echo chambers on social media and refusing to enact real protest and change, or those who were indifferent to voting in 2016 and remain indifferent because they feel that no matter what it's all the same bullshit. Unfortunately, judging from this article, we have yet to scratch the surface to the endless layers of bullshit that have yet to play out from our country's great mistake. And when our first real crisis plays out under this administration we will see in all its horrifying glory the utter incompetence that these so called political figures will display. Rest assured, this nonsense has only just begun.

richardp
01-04-2018, 04:26 PM
When this presidency is over, whether by impeachment or in 2020, or after eight long years, we as a country are going to have to reflect and do some serious soul searching about our elected officials, our political parties, the entire election process, and how we have spoken about and treated one another throughout this entire joke of a political era. How our citizens either rallied behind a loud, pathetic, and ludicrous figurehead who personified and gave voice to their fears of social, racial, progressive, and political issues, however misinformed, or bitched and moaned behind a computer screen or phone or tablet while complaining to their echo chambers on social media and refusing to enact real protest and change, or those who were indifferent to voting in 2016 and remain indifferent because they feel that no matter what it's all the same bullshit. Unfortunately, judging from this article, we have yet to scratch the surface to the endless layers of bullshit that have yet to play out from our country's great mistake. And when our first real crisis plays out under this administration we will see in all its horrifying glory the utter incompetence that these so called political figures will display. Rest assured, this nonsense has only just begun.

If one buys into Generational Theory, then after Trump IS out of office, I imagine it'd be the end of the 4th turning that we are "in" and would restart the whole cycle again, leading the American society into a civilizational high after overcoming the crises.

Louie_Cypher
01-04-2018, 05:25 PM
interesting if mercers and bannon mercers is the sorohs of the alt right they are done bye bi wont miss you at all!
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/
-Louie

allegro
01-04-2018, 07:16 PM
A good quote taken from twitter: "'Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work, then get elected and prove it' - P.J. O'Rourke"

Also from O’Rourke:

“Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.”

RhettButler
01-04-2018, 08:07 PM
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/michael-wolff-fire-and-fury-book-donald-trump.html

Horrible.Crying, but not tears of joy...wow.

thevoid99
01-04-2018, 08:33 PM
And thus, the Grand Wizard asks "where is my Roy Cohn?"

Roy Cohn is trending right now on Twitter and he's been dead for 32 years. Cohn was this asshole's personal lawyer/fixer until Cohn was diagnosed with AIDS and fired him. Cohn was a real piece of shit for anyone that knew what he's done during the 1950s witch hunt.

Louie_Cypher
01-04-2018, 09:46 PM
used to really like p.j. with reptilian republican party and holidays in hell. then like Dennis miller he went right and like Dennis became unfunny. yeah i don't like anything that leans right, its the non thinking conflict first fuck the environment money first hypocrisy, look i try not to judge and not hate because that what the labels say, but my issues with right wing politics are the same i have with organized realigns.i always make my best effort to listen. but i have been wrong before and can safely say it will most likely happen again.
-Louie

allegro
01-05-2018, 12:18 AM
used to really like p.j. with reptilian republican party and holidays in hell. then like Dennis miller he went right and like Dennis became unfunny. yeah i don't like anything that leans right, its the non thinking conflict first fuck the environment money first hypocrisy, look i try not to judge and not hate because that what the labels say, but my issues with right wing politics are the same i have with organized realigns.i always make my best effort to listen. but i have been wrong before and can safely say it will most likely happen again.
-Louie

P.J.was always a Libertarian, which I guess is considered right wing (fiscally conservative, socially liberal). He’s never been a Democrat or a Republican.

I read his book “Parliament of Whores” back in the 80s during Reagan, one of the funniest books I’ve ever read.

theimage13
01-05-2018, 07:59 AM
When this presidency is over....we as a country are going to have to reflect and do some serious soul searching

This is the sort of mentality that troubles me. "When it's over"? No, we need to be searching our souls long and deep RIGHT NOW. We should have been doing it back when a bullying trust fund baby with a decades-long history of fraud was given enough votes to gain the party's nomination. This never should have happened in a "civilized" nation.

eskimo
01-05-2018, 08:39 AM
This is the sort of mentality that troubles me. "When it's over"? No, we need to be searching our souls long and deep RIGHT NOW. We should have been doing it back when a bullying trust fund baby with a decades-long history of fraud was given enough votes to gain the party's nomination. This never should have happened in a "civilized" nation.

Is the west really as civilized as we once believed it to be?

We've got security theatre at airports. We've got a Hollywood full of sexual predators making movies that show good overcoming evil. We're the land of the free, as long as you're white and not demonstrating for BLM. We've got sexual harassment in almost every level of business. We've got a USA that has a mass shooting every few weeks. We've got reality TV shows making idiots famous for treating each other like crap. The USA has no decent health care. We've got a huge wealth gap between the top few and the bottom many. In Canada, we've got an MP who was just ousted because she claimed that the residential school system that ripped families apart did more good than bad.

If Trump has done one thing, it's to show me that the world I once believed was civilized is really far more rotten than I thought, and that politics had up until that point done a pretty good job of creating that illusion. The illusion is broken now though, at least for me.

We're now at a point where we need to make the west civilized. Not the illusion of civilized, but actually civilized.

theimage13
01-05-2018, 08:55 AM
Is the west really as civilized as we once believed it to be?

We've got security theatre at airports. We've got a Hollywood full of sexual predators making movies that show good overcoming evil. We're the land of the free, as long as you're white and not demonstrating for BLM. We've got sexual harassment in almost every level of business. We've got a USA that has a mass shooting every few weeks. We've got reality TV shows making idiots famous for treating each other like crap. The USA has no decent health care. We've got a huge wealth gap between the top few and the bottom many. In Canada, we've got an MP who was just ousted because she claimed that the residential school system that ripped families apart did more good than bad.

If Trump has done one thing, it's to show me that the world I once believed was civilized is really far more rotten than I thought, and that politics had up until that point done a pretty good job of creating that illusion. The illusion is broken now though, at least for me.

We're now at a point where we need to make the west civilized. Not the illusion of civilized, but actually civilized.

I use the term to describe a country that (usually) has things like easy access to clean drinking water, indoor plumbing, public education, etc. I don't use it to describe our actions or values - if that were the case, then yeah, I'd say we've never really been civilized. We owned humans as property for a shocking amount of time, and then continued to tell people they couldn't even use the same fucking water fountain depending on their skin color until well into the 20th century - and now we still have laws that largely exist to create a way to oppress them. We still have "white pride" rallies. We still think the death penalty is a good thing. We still think that marijuana is more dangerous than mass-prescribed drugs that are killing people in record numbers. We still can't grasp the concept of feminism (simple equality of the sexes) and fear that it's a radical movement in which women want to cut our dicks off and take over the country. We treat corporations better than the actual human beings who make them successful. We worship the dollar above the health and future of the planet we live on. I could go on, but I'm getting sad just thinking about it.

Louie_Cypher
01-05-2018, 09:06 AM
watching everyone scramble about this book, which is doing what it is suppose to, sell books. watching "sir lies a lot" Sandra huckabee. saying it's 100% lies. even if you had 100 monkeys with typewriters in a room you're still going to just by luck hit on one or two facts, if that is the case this really scary that this thing was allowed into the O.O.
-Louie

allegate
01-05-2018, 09:50 AM
When this presidency is over, whether by impeachment or in 2020, or after eight long years, we as a country are going to have to reflect and do some serious soul searching about our elected officials, our political parties, the entire election process, and how we have spoken about and treated one another throughout this entire joke of a political era. How our citizens either rallied behind a loud, pathetic, and ludicrous figurehead who personified and gave voice to their fears of social, racial, progressive, and political issues, however misinformed, or bitched and moaned behind a computer screen or phone or tablet while complaining to their echo chambers on social media and refusing to enact real protest and change, or those who were indifferent to voting in 2016 and remain indifferent because they feel that no matter what it's all the same bullshit. Unfortunately, judging from this article, we have yet to scratch the surface to the endless layers of bullshit that have yet to play out from our country's great mistake. And when our first real crisis plays out under this administration we will see in all its horrifying glory the utter incompetence that these so called political figures will display. Rest assured, this nonsense has only just begun.

Can you imagine the government's response to 9/11 if it happened now? The world would be over in a flash.

Louie_Cypher
01-05-2018, 02:09 PM
i think if we do reflect which i doubt will happen i think if people will find 1) we are not that smart2) how easily manipulate we are. even though we have access to more information than anytime in history 3) we have not caught up to the amount information we can receive and the ability to process it rationality. there are people i conciser intelligent that still get their news from Facebook wall or health advice dr Dr. OZ. without asking the simple question, what do they have to gain by giving me this information. I think you'll nost people that are disseminating info are doing as a form of manipulation i hope after the information age will understanding dawn. until then question everything!
-Louie

Jinsai
01-06-2018, 12:39 AM
watching everyone scramble about this book, which is doing what it is suppose to, sell books. watching "sir lies a lot" Sandra huckabee. saying it's 100% lies. even if you had 100 monkeys with typewriters in a room you're still going to just by luck hit on one or two facts, if that is the case this really scary that this thing was allowed into the O.O.
-Louie

I'm just overjoyed at how furious it's making Trump. Also, I thought it was fucking hilarious that he thought he could block it from being published, so I bought a copy. Unfortunately I couldn't find a printed copy... the guy at the Barnes and Noble said "sorry, it sold out in five minutes." So I bought a digital copy.

RhettButler
01-06-2018, 06:30 AM
Anyone reading Trump's tweets this morning?

theimage13
01-06-2018, 06:35 AM
Anyone reading Trump's tweets this morning?

Fuck no.

theimage13
01-06-2018, 06:38 AM
I'm just overjoyed at how furious it's making Trump. Also, I thought it was fucking hilarious that he thought he could block it from being published, so I bought a copy. Unfortunately I couldn't find a printed copy... the guy at the Barnes and Noble said "sorry, it sold out in five minutes." So I bought a digital copy.

Yeah. What I'm loving is that he spent year and years and years claiming - with absolutely no evidence whatsoever - that Obama was literally constitutionally unqualified to be the president and working to undermine everything he did. So here's the thing: while I hope that people don't believe every word of this book as truth (although sadly, many will), I am absolutely LOVING that someone is doing to Trump what he did to Obama. Karma's a bitch, crybaby.

RhettButler
01-06-2018, 08:10 AM
Fuck no.Too bad, because he's like, really smart and a stable genius.

Louie_Cypher
01-06-2018, 08:43 AM
Anyone reading Trump's tweets this morning?ell, you’ll show ‘em. Nothing says stable like a midnight tweet about “Sloppy Steve” followed by a 7:00 a.m. tweet calling “hoax” on an investigation that has already led to charges against 4 people. Except maybe maniacal laughter. Try some of that too. https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/949616329463615489 … (https://t.co/X7c8LOhR30)

Swykk
01-06-2018, 10:15 AM
It’s crumbling down. The questions are who will be left standing in the administration and more importantly, how will the worst among the LCDs react?

I legitimately don’t think violent outbursts are beyond the realm of possibility, especially if Trump himself goes down.

telee.kom
01-06-2018, 11:16 AM
I think he must be using some speech to text app that writes his tweets for him and he's too lazy to even edit it or something, because there is really no other explanation for the way he phrases his sentences.

allegro
01-06-2018, 11:55 AM
Fuck no.

Trump's trolling, he's become pretty good at it. Read the Twitter COMMENTS on his feed, now, they're about 98% "you are a moron" or "have fun in prison" and 2% "MAGA! We are praying for you, sir!"

My husband is reading "Fire and Fury" on Kindle right now, and I'll start reading it later today.

Louie_Cypher
01-06-2018, 12:06 PM
Trump's trolling, he's become pretty good at it. Read the Twitter COMMENTS on his feed, now, they're about 98% "you are a moron" or "have fun in prison" and 2% "MAGA! We are praying for you, sir!"

My husband is reading "Fire and Fury" on Kindle right now, and I'll start reading it later today. currently reading it what surprises me most is how much power we have given fox"news" in our political dialog, i don't like saying this but i'm glad this demographic is dying off.
-Louie

kel
01-06-2018, 01:30 PM
could you imagine president obama proclaiming in a tweet that he's a genius? like, really smart? oh my god, get me off this crazy boat ...

theimage13
01-06-2018, 01:39 PM
Trump's trolling

What makes you so sure? A dearth of actual supportive comments and a barrage of criticisms doesn't strike me as evidence. Just makes me think that he's even more stubborn that I thought, and that he feels like he has to rant and rave and bang his fingers on his little keyboard in the desperate hope that people will believe he's their god. Nothing that I've ever read about him or witnessed him do has made me believe that he's capable of what would basically amount to self-deprecation (setting himself up for all the negative comments) for the purpose of having a laugh at people. That strikes me as the complete antithesis of his personality.


could you imagine president obama proclaiming in a tweet that he's a genius? like, really smart? oh my god, get me off this crazy boat ...

Yeah, that's the thing about people who are truly smart...they generally never need to say they are, and they probably never even would because they're typically too focused on things that are more important than tooting their own horn.

onthewall2983
01-06-2018, 01:46 PM
He's trying to distract people from the book. Also could explain the furor he raised with the comments made about North Korea just before the book's excerpts came out.

Jinsai
01-06-2018, 02:22 PM
you don't squash the claim that you're unstable by assuring everyone that you're really smart... these are not mutually exclusive things! You can be like, really smart, and still be fucking insane and unstable. You cannot, however, be like, really smart, and not understand the difference between instability and intelligence.

allegro
01-06-2018, 05:19 PM
What makes you so sure?

Yeah, that's the thing about people who are truly smart...they generally never need to say they are, and they probably never even would because they're typically too focused on things that are more important than tooting their own horn.

He loves stirring up shit. He loves attention. Trolls love that, too. It's the primary reason for trolling. He knows he can gloat over keeping his base, no matter what; the majority of his hardcore fans aren't even hardcore Republicans and think he's like a Rock Star. He also thinks he's a really good comedian. But, he is also totally serious, below, and he's right. He's sarcastically poking fun at his own dedicated base; he knows he's a genius by comparison (and they think he's one, too).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkz7xgsPGmQ

eskimo
01-06-2018, 05:41 PM
What happens if he orders a nuclear strike on the FBI?

Does someone stop him? Or does he to do it because he's the president?

He's losing it even harder than normal here, and likely to start behaving more erratically than before. This is going to get uglier than it already is.

allegro
01-06-2018, 07:44 PM
What happens if he orders a nuclear strike on the FBI?

Does someone stop him?

Yes.

See this: https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/14/trump-nuclear-launch-authority-244889


But retired Gen. C. Robert Kehler, the former head of U.S. Strategic Command, said checks exist on any president who orders a nuclear strike absent an imminent attack on the U.S.

Kehler said that in his former position, he would have questioned and ultimately refused to follow an order from the president to launch a nuclear weapon if it seemed illegal or not a proportional response. He said that would be especially true in the case of a preemptive attack where an attack was not imminent and more time could be spent on the decision.

“I would have said I have a question about this and I would have said I’m not ready to proceed,” Kehler told the panel.

All members of the military are required to follow legal orders, but are also required to reject an illegal order on any matter, including a nuclear strike.

richardp
01-07-2018, 10:12 AM
Boy it sure was fun watching Stephen Miller genuinely get flustered a couple of times on CNN this morning with Tapper. What a fucking interview that was.

allegro
01-07-2018, 01:09 PM
Boy it sure was fun watching Stephen Miller genuinely get flustered a couple of times on CNN this morning with Tapper. What a fucking interview that was.

We just watched it (link here (http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/01/07/stephen-miller-steve-bannon-fire-and-fury-sotu.cnn/video/playlists/trump-fire-and-fury-book-michael-wolff/)) and the impression both I and my husband got is: Stephen Miller looks like he's on something. Like, drugs. He's slightly slurring his speech, he's repeating the same dumb airplane story, his eyes are kinda glassy and half-closed. He's on something.

october_midnight
01-07-2018, 01:15 PM
I still refuse to believe that evil motherfucker is only 32 years old.

allegro
01-07-2018, 01:16 PM
I still refuse to believe that evil motherfucker is only 32 years old.

https://dailyhumorpix.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/vlcsnap-2012-05-27-06h43m39s189.jpg

Louie_Cypher
01-07-2018, 01:44 PM
We just watched it (link here (http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/01/07/stephen-miller-steve-bannon-fire-and-fury-sotu.cnn/video/playlists/trump-fire-and-fury-book-michael-wolff/)) and the impression both I and my husband got is: Stephen Miller looks like he's on something. Like, drugs. He's slightly slurring his speech, he's repeating the same dumb airplane story, his eyes are kinda glassy and half-closed. He's on something. what i find most honestly hilarious about this is did Obama ever even once defend himself on any of the wild accusations made against him? much less holding a press conference or do the Sunday circuit. can you imagine. Obama sending someone on MTP to say he was totally born in Hawaii. the right would gave been screaming that proves it! the other thing i would like to ask fox? why the hell are you still talking about hillary? she got more tha enough screen time with Benghazi!
-Louie

Jinsai
01-07-2018, 05:17 PM
I don't get it... if everything in this book is "fiction" then why is Trump so pissed at Bannon for what it claims he said?

theimage13
01-07-2018, 10:02 PM
I don't get it... if everything in this book is "fiction" then why is Trump so pissed at Bannon for what it claims he said?

Why would he not be? Look, I hate both of them. But if someone I used to enjoy a personal and professional relationship with started telling the world that I was some pig-fucking alcoholic who liked to pleasure myself with microwaved bagels, I'd be furious. Just because something isn't true doesn't mean people don't believe it, and whether they believe it or not, it doesn't mean the one being accused of pretty pathetic things should be cool with such things being said about them.

This is not at all to speculate about the validity of any/all of Wolff's writings. I'm just saying that it's perfectly reasonable to be outraged at someone saying awful things about you.

onthewall2983
01-07-2018, 11:09 PM
Boy it sure was fun watching Stephen Miller genuinely get flustered a couple of times on CNN this morning with Tapper. What a fucking interview that was.

Best part to me is that he was escorted out by CNN security afterwards.

richardp
01-07-2018, 11:18 PM
Best part to me is that he was escorted out by CNN security afterwards.

Oh shit, is this for real?

onthewall2983
01-07-2018, 11:22 PM
That's what I'm reading. Doesn't sound like he made any sort of outbursts or anything and that they may have planned on it as a possibility.

theimage13
01-08-2018, 07:25 AM
Trump Tower is on fire. No, really. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/01/08/authorities-responding-to-fire-on-trump-tower-roof/)

Probably a total non-story in regard to any relation to the Cheeto in Chief. But I do like how one person has already speculated that it was started by a pair of pants.

allegate
01-08-2018, 10:37 AM
It’s crumbling down. The questions are who will be left standing in the administration and more importantly, how will the worst among the LCDs react?

I legitimately don’t think violent outbursts are beyond the realm of possibility, especially if Trump himself goes down.

Did you not see that the one Roy Moore accuser had her house burnt down? Violent outbursts will be the least of the issues, I think.

allegate
01-08-2018, 10:48 AM
Why would he not be? Look, I hate both of them. But if someone I used to enjoy a personal and professional relationship with started telling the world that I was some pig-fucking alcoholic who liked to pleasure myself with microwaved bagels, I'd be furious. Just because something isn't true doesn't mean people don't believe it, and whether they believe it or not, it doesn't mean the one being accused of pretty pathetic things should be cool with such things being said about them.

This is not at all to speculate about the validity of any/all of Wolff's writings. I'm just saying that it's perfectly reasonable to be outraged at someone saying awful things about you.

So are you referring to the pig fucking, the alcoholism, or the microwaved bagels as the lie?

Swykk
01-08-2018, 11:17 AM
Did you not see that the one Roy Moore accuser had her house burnt down? Violent outbursts will be the least of the issues, I think.

I had not seen that, actually, but googled it after I saw this post and yeah, that’s the kind of shit I expect.

Louie_Cypher
01-08-2018, 11:33 AM
i think even Oprah even entertaining the thought of running president is a bad idea, trump pulled the cork on that bottle. no any inexperienced yahoo with name recognition thinks they can or should be president. who knew the writers strike wold lead to this. coming soon American idol president edition, text messaging charges my apply. which is basically what the presidential debates are now. we as a nation need to wake up. before its to late.
-louie

Deepvoid
01-08-2018, 11:40 AM
Trump vs Oprah 2020 would make for some awesome debates.

marodi
01-08-2018, 12:47 PM
Trump vs Oprah 2020 would make for some awesome debates.

I'm a cynical old thing who's seen pretty much everything and she managed to get me all riled up with her speech last night. She would tear him apart.

Louie_Cypher
01-08-2018, 12:56 PM
I'm a cynical old thing who's seen pretty much everything and she managed to get me all riled up with her speech last night. She would tear him apart. let me know if these even closely reassemble what we now call a debate: https://www.speechanddebate.org/rules-forms-manuals/
-Louie

Conan The Barbarian
01-08-2018, 01:25 PM
i think even Oprah even entertaining the thought of running president is a bad idea, trump pulled the cork on that bottle. no any inexperienced yahoo with name recognition thinks they can or should be president. who knew the writers strike wold lead to this. coming soon American idol president edition, text messaging charges my apply. which is basically what the presidential debates are now. we as a nation need to wake up. before its to late.
-louie

I really hope oprah decides not to run. Just because she made a speech last night doesnt mean she knows how to run a country. America needs to stop putting entertainers in position of power.

eskimo
01-08-2018, 01:26 PM
i think even Oprah even entertaining the thought of running president is a bad idea, trump pulled the cork on that bottle. no any inexperienced yahoo with name recognition thinks they can or should be president. who knew the writers strike wold lead to this. coming soon American idol president edition, text messaging charges my apply. which is basically what the presidential debates are now. we as a nation need to wake up. before its to late.
-louie

It won't take too much to make that a reality. And sadly, it seems more and more likely with each passing day.

thevoid99
01-08-2018, 03:55 PM
I hope Oprah would run as I just hope she would do the one thing we need.... that is to embrace the concept of.... DELETION!!!!!!

http://www.thecoli.com/media/broken-matt-hardy-delete.12897/full

Louie_Cypher
01-08-2018, 05:59 PM
my predicton is Trump will tweet something negative about Oprah in the next 24hrs.
_Louie

theimage13
01-08-2018, 07:59 PM
Did you not see that the one Roy Moore accuser had her house burnt down? Violent outbursts will be the least of the issues, I think.

For context:

Investigators in Etowah County do not think the fire “is in any way related to Roy Moore or the allegations made against him,” the sheriff’s office said.

marodi
01-08-2018, 08:04 PM
let me know if these even closely reassemble what we now call a debate: https://www.speechanddebate.org/rules-forms-manuals/
-Louie

Of course none of them do. That's because what is now called "debate" should be called "spectacle" instead.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying Oprah would make a good president. But if the American people want to have a former actor/businessperson/tv host as a President, then I believe she'd probably do better than the Orange Cheeto. I don't think she would engage world leaders on Twitter by calling them names and comparing dick sizes.

And unless proven otherwise, I think she is sane.

theimage13
01-08-2018, 08:07 PM
I really hope oprah decides not to run. Just because she made a speech last night doesnt mean she knows how to run a country. America needs to stop putting entertainers in position of power.

I have mixed feelings on that. On one hand, I do tend to find myself believing that the only people I would truly feel comfortable with as leaders are those who have already had careers elsewhere in large government and are familiar first hand with how it works.

That said, Oprah is a pretty intelligent woman - a self made one, not someone who got rich from their daddy like the current president - which shows that she's got the knowledge, the determination, and the ability to accomplish things that she sets her mind to. But she get to where she is now literally on her own, which shows that she knows how to surround herself with people who can offer guidance in their areas of expertise in order to achieve her larger goals. She's a major philanthropist, which speaks to a positive "let's help people instead of telling them to fuck off" policy.

So, I have to say - I wouldn't say right here and now that I would vote for her. But I would absolutely give her my attention and hear her out if she decided to make a go at it. Especially if her opponent was Trump or Pence. Actually, in that case I probably would vote for her more or less regardless.

sweeterthan
01-08-2018, 08:09 PM
Oprah brought us dr. Phil. I say no to oprah for president.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

october_midnight
01-08-2018, 08:14 PM
This human compost pile flat out doesn't know the words to the anthem.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APht0Icu2hc

thevoid99
01-08-2018, 08:20 PM
And he got his ass booed out of the fucking building. Thank you ATL. Go Dawgs!

sweeterthan
01-08-2018, 08:51 PM
And he got his ass booed out of the fucking building. Thank you ATL. Go Dawgs!

They cancelled my kids school for this game. Trump’s America.

thevoid99
01-08-2018, 09:47 PM
Fucking Dumb Man. He calls himself genius yet I bet he doesn't even know simple mathematics.

Sallos
01-09-2018, 05:25 AM
And he got his ass booed out of the fucking building. Thank you ATL. Go Dawgs!

He didn't.

sweeterthan
01-09-2018, 05:52 AM
He didn't.

Yes I was rather mad that there was no booing inside the stadium. Apparently it was all outside. But https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180109/c589906e879d141e8d07a64aa87b83d6.jpgthis fun resistance display made an appearance.

allegate
01-09-2018, 10:14 AM
For context:

https://media.giphy.com/media/Fml0fgAxVx1eM/giphy.gif

DigitalChaos
01-09-2018, 11:11 AM
I don't know. I like the idea of OPRAH ordering the deaths of people. YOU GET A BULLET. YOU GET A BULLET. EVERYONE GETS A BULLET!

No Oprah is horrible. Pro Iraq war, antivax, TV personality, populist. lmao.

Swykk
01-09-2018, 12:05 PM
Recently pardoned racist criminal Joe Arpaio has announced he will run for Senate in Arizona.

I’d laugh and say, “There’s no fucking way...” but Trump.

Jinsai
01-09-2018, 12:53 PM
don't worry... by the time we finally get around to impeaching this son of a bitch, the economy will be collapsing and we'll be on the brink of world war III, so at that point, I think even his ardent supporters will come to the realization that maybe this was a bad idea.

allegate
01-09-2018, 05:17 PM
https://twitter.com/PalmerReport/status/950846644148490240

https://twitter.com/PalmerReport/status/950846644148490240

Holy cow.

Sister Midnight
01-09-2018, 09:35 PM
"A very stable genius" pretty much says it all. I can't take another year of this shit.

theimage13
01-10-2018, 05:45 AM
don't worry... by the time we finally get around to impeaching this son of a bitch, the economy will be collapsing and we'll be on the brink of world war III, so at that point, I think even his ardent supporters will come to the realization that maybe this was a bad idea.

1) Trump won't be impeached
2) His supporters are the ones who believe that the booming economy is magically the result of Trump; not the policies that Obama spent eight years working on. They'll be quick to join Trump's chorus of "THIS IS ALL BECAUSE OF OBSTRUCTIONIST DEMOCRATS WHO WOULDN'T WORK WITH US TO MAGA".
3) As much as I despise the guy, I don't see warning signs of an economic collapse. The market will eventually stop the run that it's on now and maybe dip a little to correct for doing a little too well, but leveling off isn't the same as collapsing.

Deepvoid
01-10-2018, 07:21 AM
This human compost pile flat out doesn't know the words to the anthem.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APht0Icu2hc

Here you go!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo_mpwmashg

allegate
01-10-2018, 09:58 AM
I wonder who the first politician will be to use "hindsight is 20/20" as the basis for their run in 2020?

allegate
01-11-2018, 11:22 AM
Trump administration will allow states to test Medicaid work requirements (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump-administration-opens-door-to-let-states-impose-medicaid-work-requirements/ar-BBIfE3g?OCID=ansmsnnews11)http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABAAAAAQCAYAAAA f8/9hAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAARnQU1BAACxjwv8YQUAAAAJcEhZ cwAADsIAAA7CARUoSoAAAAE4SURBVDhPrdO/K0VxGMfxI8RVZPLjJpNBMZDFXyFlUDelWJBY/BjMSv4ImRjIwGAxKbKgFMLCIJQBi1B4v88593Sv7eBTr 7T99ye 3yfzg3 MxUojcr06cBgVP4uO1iJyqAq/ixBJirD5M N5z5PModP9OMc3ejDJerRhiv4vBUnGEOSHnwhh108xGevWEIlb nGITqzjCdUIMwIbNGIcH3DMY6yiDnc4gMuewgtqEI77CBs0YQL v8M5H2MAyvKK7KscMkgb 0hBskIUTvMGxnWALxnvvoQw2eEbYwPTCBu2YjGubOcECzBn2UQ sbuJ kQTNu4KKGcY9rjMIswqabcBK/N4 itMDlmC7MRmXQAPdygW1MYwCpcwqv5NVM0YuUT FhYe3i1uDL5YuVOv7JXN6f82PsIPgGIgBBgXOWZ0QAAAAASUVO RK5CYII=The Washington Post on MSN.com · 4h

The new policy comes as 10 states are already lined up, waiting for federal permission to impose work requirements on able-bodied adults in the program.
Well alrighty then.

october_midnight
01-11-2018, 04:31 PM
Raise your hand if you or someone you know or are related to is from one of those uhh, 'shithole' countries (http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/11/politics/immigrants-shithole-countries-trump/index.html?sr=twCNN011118immigrants-shithole-countries-trump0513PMStory) Lord Shitbag mentioned today.

allegate
01-11-2018, 04:34 PM
You've got to be shitting me.

https://twitter.com/JProskowGlobal/status/951575651076726785

sweeterthan
01-11-2018, 08:02 PM
Pretty bad. But I’m sure his base thinks this is ok.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sister Midnight
01-11-2018, 08:08 PM
Well we are about to embark on the Trump presidency for a second year, I guess we'll call it "Racism 2.0" Trump is a fucking asshole and if anything is a "shithole" I would say the Oval Office turned into a shithole January 20th 2017 at 12:01pm.

thevoid99
01-11-2018, 08:30 PM
And he says that Haiti hasn't contributed anything to the world. This isn't just fucking ignorant but really fucking stupid. Saying Nigerians live in huts. Wow.... my brain hurts having to type all of that bullshit he spews.

theimage13
01-11-2018, 08:53 PM
Pretty bad. But I’m sure his base thinks this is ok.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not ALL of them...but a depressingly large number of them. Believe it or not, there really are people who voted for him *despite* his racist dickbag tendencies, not *because* of them. Honestly, I actually feel bad for those people. To be so scared of the harm that another candidate could do to your livelihood that you'd be willing to vote for an openly hostile and abusive man-child over his opponent...your circumstances must be pretty dire.

thevoid99
01-11-2018, 09:24 PM
And CNN just said "fuck you" to Dumb Man. Don Lemon opens his statement saying "The President of the United States is racist" Anderson Cooper calls Dumb Man "racist". Well, I think the shit just hit the fan.

https://media.tenor.com/images/125a1e59dc8ef577090460652ed5125f/tenor.gif

Sister Midnight
01-11-2018, 09:57 PM
I'm hoping the blue wave takes effect in November then Trump will truly see the shit hit the fan when a newly elected house files for impeachment proceedings and to evoke the 25th amendment.
Even with todays latest racist comments Trump will somehow slither out of it. I don't just want to see him impeached or removed by the 25th amendment. I want to see him disgraced and marched out of the White House in handcuffs, his families money seized for unlawfully running a business while in office.

NotoriousTIMP
01-11-2018, 10:00 PM
Trump lauded delivery of F-52s to Norway. The planes only exist in ‘Call of Duty. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2018/01/11/trump-lauded-delivery-of-f-52s-to-norway-the-planes-only-exist-in-call-of-duty/?utm_term=.86b467650f9e)

Jinsai
01-11-2018, 10:43 PM
1) Trump won't be impeached

i don't share that pessimism... he is FUCKED after the mid terms

Baphomette
01-11-2018, 11:11 PM
Raise your hand if you or someone you know or are related to is from one of those uhh, 'shithole' countries (http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/11/politics/immigrants-shithole-countries-trump/index.html?sr=twCNN011118immigrants-shithole-countries-trump0513PMStory) Lord Shitbag mentioned today.My (http://www.nationalanthems.me/el-salvador-himno-nacional-de-el-salvador/) shithole (https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/files/resources/2017-04-18_economic_contributions_by_salvadoran_honduran_a nd_haitian_tps_holders.pdf) brings all (https://math.dartmouth.edu/~lamperti/Holocaust_Heroes.pdf) the boys (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1998/12/dirty-hands/377364/) to the yard (https://www.lonelyplanet.com/el-salvador/attractions/a/poi-sig/358375)... (https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/pupusas-through-thick-and-thin/2012/04/03/gIQAxmG1sS_story.html?utm_term=.79706542d370)

allegate
01-12-2018, 09:47 AM
Pretty bad. But I’m sure his base thinks this is ok.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI saw it somewhere else that it's basically him saying what they're all thinking anyway so it's win/win for him. It pisses off the right people and fires up the right people and then he does something while everyone is distracted.

allegro
01-12-2018, 10:27 AM
i don't share that pessimism... he is FUCKED after the mid terms
I just want to be sure that we are all clear, here:

“Impeach” is synonymous with “Indict”

It must be related to criminal activity.

It is not related to the 25th Amendment (except that the 25th Amendment provides for Pence replacing Trump if Trump is unable to serve for whatever reasons).

Impeach does not necessarily remove a President from office.


Impeachment is a very serious affair. This power of Congress is the ultimate weapon against officials of the federal government, and is a fundamental component of the constitutional system of “checks and balances.” In impeachment proceedings, the House of Representatives charges an official by approving, by majority vote, articles of impeachment. A committee of representatives, called “managers,” acts as prosecutors before the Senate. The Senate Chamber serves as the courtroom. The Senate becomes jury and judge, except in the case of presidential impeachment trials when the chief justice of the United States presides. The Constitution requires a two-thirds vote of the Senate to convict, and the penalty for an impeached official is removal from office. In some cases, disqualification from holding future offices is also imposed. There is no appeal.

https://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Senate_Impeachment_Role.htm

I really dislike Trump.

However, a President Pence would be a FUCKING NIGHTMARE.

The State of Indiana STILL has not recovered, economically, from Pence’s actions regarding LGBT individuals. Pence is living in a Stone Age of Religion.

Pence = WORSE than Ted Cruz.

Swykk
01-12-2018, 10:35 AM
I like to think the pressure of the Mueller investigation (and even if he isn’t charged, knowing his son is most certainly fucked; probably son in law too) is breaking him down. Look at all of these spineless GOP fucks trying to cover for him too. It makes me think they’re involved too somehow. It’ll be interesting to see what comes of this.

The mid terms is our chance to stop the bleeding. We have to show up.

Sister Midnight
01-12-2018, 11:19 AM
The State of Indiana STILL has not recovered, economically, from Pence’s actions regarding LGBT individuals. Pence is living in a Stone Age of Religion.

Pence = WORSE than Ted Cruz.

I agree with everything you are saying but I think after Roy Moore, the sycophant that Pence had played to Trump and then for Pence to play the religious zealot will seem like a bigger conn then the Trump presidency itself. I know Pence will go there, but how many will follow?

November 2018 take back the house.

November 2020 take back the white house.

Louie_Cypher
01-12-2018, 12:09 PM
trying to start something want people to call their congress person and tell them to boycott the state of the union, look it's peaceful protest and non violent but even if the CEO of a company i was part of said that i would be bye
-Louie

allegate
01-12-2018, 12:21 PM
I'm reminded of a comic from before the election.

http://assets.amuniversal.com/1310a10060b40134c32a005056a9545d

october_midnight
01-12-2018, 02:35 PM
Trump cheated on Melania with porn star Stormy Daniels, paid her off to keep quiet just before the election. (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/368779-trump-lawyer-arranged-130k-payment-to-adult-film-star-to-stay-quiet?__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true)

thevoid99
01-12-2018, 02:59 PM
Trump cheated on Melania with porn star Stormy Daniels, paid her off to keep quiet just before the election. (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/368779-trump-lawyer-arranged-130k-payment-to-adult-film-star-to-stay-quiet?__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true)

Why am I not surprised about this?

theimage13
01-12-2018, 03:01 PM
Trump cheated on Melania with porn star Stormy Daniels, paid her off to keep quiet just before the election. (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/368779-trump-lawyer-arranged-130k-payment-to-adult-film-star-to-stay-quiet?__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true)

So? I said it when Bill Clinton was president and I'll say it again; I don't really give a fuck if you cheat on your spouse. It's slimy (assuming you don't have an open marriage), but I don't think it speaks to a person's ability to govern. Of all the things that he's been accused of / has done on record, this doesn't even really register with me.

Jinsai
01-12-2018, 03:24 PM
Well, it matters because it affects his rural base, on some level... then again, these are the people who didn't have the problem with the whole grab-her-by-the-pussy thing, so actually, I guess it doesn't matter.

theimage13
01-12-2018, 03:41 PM
Well, it matters because it affects his rural base, on some level... then again, these are the people who didn't have the problem with the whole grab-her-by-the-pussy thing, so actually, I guess it doesn't matter.

I mean, he's on his third marriage. If that didn't hurt his rural (read: uber-conservative and uber-religious) base, I don't think one more woman is going to change things.

october_midnight
01-12-2018, 03:45 PM
So? I said it when Bill Clinton was president and I'll say it again; I don't really give a fuck if you cheat on your spouse. It's slimy (assuming you don't have an open marriage), but I don't think it speaks to a person's ability to govern. Of all the things that he's been accused of / has done on record, this doesn't even really register with me.

Because it shows he's easily blackmailed. It's what, 130k? That's a ton for someone other than him...and if a porn star could score it, imagine what the fuckin' Kremlin could do.

sweeterthan
01-12-2018, 06:48 PM
I’m not sure if extra marital affairs matter at all. Everyone knows he’s a cheater. His first marriage ended because of his second. We have him on tape saying he does whatever he wants to whomever he chooses. They still voted for him because he had a R next to his name.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sister Midnight
01-15-2018, 11:14 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EQAwrDwE6Y

I couldn't find a clip of just the one joke itself so I had to post the whole thing. The joke at 2:50 is why I posted it, and sadly this joke could become reality.

Sister Midnight
01-15-2018, 03:54 PM
The phrase "I'm not a racist" usually proceeds a racist comment or in Trumps case is uttered after making a racist comment. There are so many reasons why President Archie Bunker shouldn't be president the fact that he is a racist is just one of many that proves he is unfit for office. All the people that are outraged by President Idiot's latest comment I hope will remember this in November and get out and vote to stop this administration and start impeachment proceedings or to act on the 25th amendment.
The joke that I thought was funny about the SNL clip was the joke about "Trump found with a dead hooker" next to the crossword puzzle, because President Chaos constantly has a shit storm circling the White House. Trump being found with a dead hooker would get pushed back to the crossword puzzle page, if anybody still reads the paper or know who Archie Bunker is.

thevoid99
01-15-2018, 04:28 PM
"I'm not a racist!" What a load of bullshit.

Jinsai
01-16-2018, 12:54 AM
Fuck republicans. You are terrible people. Fuck you.

allegro
01-16-2018, 12:06 PM
Trump being found with a dead hooker would get pushed back to the crossword puzzle page, if anybody still reads the paper or know who Archie Bunker is.

Yup the crosswords are always at the end by the comics, and by the Obits ;)

And Trump really IS Archie Bunker’s clone.

marodi
01-16-2018, 01:06 PM
"I'm not a racist!" What a load of bullshit.

"I'm not a racist, I've been in the same room as them people and I've even spoken to some of them!"

My evil hand constantly forms a fist and has fantasies about punching El Cheeto.

Jinsai
01-16-2018, 03:35 PM
I really don't think President Pence would be worse... he'd be a lame duck... and he'd wind up in a situation where congress turns blue, and then kicked the fuck out in 2020. Trump, however, could really screw things up if we keep this up.

I understand that impeachment requires an illegal act... but the only reason we can't move on the emoluments clause is because republicans control everything right now. The power slips into reasonable conversation land, and he's gone.

Demogorgon
01-16-2018, 04:27 PM
According to the doctor who gave Trump his exam, Trump requested and passed a cognitive test with a perfect score. Anyone still holding out for the 25th amendment may want to give up on that happening.

Jinsai
01-16-2018, 04:52 PM
According to the doctor who gave Trump his exam, Trump requested and passed a cognitive test with a perfect score. Anyone still holding out for the 25th amendment may want to give up on that happening.


Trump's doctor also said that he didn't even think it was worth thinking about, that there was no indication that he might be mentally unstable... whereas the medical community disagrees fervently there... his doctor also said he was just .1 BMI outside of being technically obese.

He also said Trump's ass tastes great.

Demogorgon
01-16-2018, 05:16 PM
This isn't his personal doctor from the campaign, this is Admiral Jackson who gives the presidential physicals.

Demogorgon
01-16-2018, 05:19 PM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-did-%e2%80%98exceedingly-well%e2%80%99-on-a-cognitive-test-top-white-house-doctor-says/ar-AAuMO4O For reference.

Also, try not to assume I'm saying Trump is a super genius or I'm defending him, because I'm not.

sick among the pure
01-16-2018, 06:05 PM
Yeah, what a test.


"Drumpf answered all 30 questions correctly, Jackson said."


"The test includes asking a patient to name several animals, draw a clock with the hands at a certain time, copy a cube and recall a short list of words"


Well then, surely Trump has no mental issues. I feel much better about his mental stability.

theimage13
01-16-2018, 06:45 PM
Trump's doctor also said that he didn't even think it was worth thinking about, that there was no indication that he might be mentally unstable... whereas the medical community disagrees fervently there... his doctor also said he was just .1 BMI outside of being technically obese.

He also said Trump's ass tastes great.

The whole medical community hasn't conducted any tests on the man. The doctor who performed this physical has been the White House Physician since 2013, when Barack Obama was president.

So are you insinuating that he was also eating Obama's ass and is a bipartisan soothsayer who just says "everything's peachy" about anyone who gives him a job? Because frankly, I think that is unbelievably insulting to Admiral / Dr. Jackson.

Look, you have a choice here. You can accept the fact that a HIGHLY skilled medical doctor announced that the President is not a cheeseburger away from a heart attack like many people desperately want him to be, or you can become one of those pathetic people who suddenly "disagree with" science when it doesn't support their pre-conceived notions about something anymore.

theimage13
01-16-2018, 06:48 PM
Yeah, what a test.


"Drumpf answered all 30 questions correctly, Jackson said."


"The test includes asking a patient to name several animals, draw a clock with the hands at a certain time, copy a cube and recall a short list of words"


Well then, surely Trump has no mental issues. I feel much better about his mental stability.

Look, I don't like Trump. But I have *some* understanding of medical tests, and the things that mentally healthy people might see as silly are things that people with cognitive disorders would potentially struggle with. There's a huge difference between having a mental disorder and being a racist fucking asshole with an ego the size Jupiter. The former isn't required in order to be the latter.

Sarah K
01-16-2018, 07:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7VVVsGRvuc

Jinsai
01-17-2018, 02:04 AM
The whole medical community hasn't conducted any tests on the man. The doctor who performed this physical has been the White House Physician since 2013, when Barack Obama was president.

So are you insinuating that he was also eating Obama's ass and is a bipartisan soothsayer who just says "everything's peachy" about anyone who gives him a job? Because frankly, I think that is unbelievably insulting to Admiral / Dr. Jackson.

Look, you have a choice here. You can accept the fact that a HIGHLY skilled medical doctor announced that the President is not a cheeseburger away from a heart attack like many people desperately want him to be, or you can become one of those pathetic people who suddenly "disagree with" science when it doesn't support their pre-conceived notions about something anymore.

I obviously do not like Trump, but give me some credit on my ability to say "what the fuck." This doctor said that he didn't see a reason to question his sanity.

Fuck this guy. He's a professional ass kisser. Even if the president is sane, like Obama, or fucking crazier than fuck, like Trump. NO medical professional would say "hey, this guy is acting super normal!"

RhettButler
01-17-2018, 02:52 AM
The whole medical community hasn't conducted any tests on the man. The doctor who performed this physical has been the White House Physician since 2013, when Barack Obama was president.

So are you insinuating that he was also eating Obama's ass and is a bipartisan soothsayer who just says "everything's peachy" about anyone who gives him a job? Because frankly, I think that is unbelievably insulting to Admiral / Dr. Jackson.

Look, you have a choice here. You can accept the fact that a HIGHLY skilled medical doctor announced that the President is not a cheeseburger away from a heart attack like many people desperately want him to be, or you can become one of those pathetic people who suddenly "disagree with" science when it doesn't support their pre-conceived notions about something anymore. Yeah, have to agree with this post. It still doesn't mean that Trump isn't unfit and could possibly have a mental/personality disorder.

allegro
01-17-2018, 03:04 AM
Yeah, have to agree with this post. It still doesn't mean that Trump isn't unfit and could possibly have a mental/personality disorder.

This doctor performed a standard physical examination and conducted a standard test of the President’s cognitive abilities. I watched my elderly mother undergo the same tests. The standard cognitive test is to determine signs of dementia or Alzheimer’s.

It’s not the WH physician’s job to diagnose any personality disorders. There is not enough evidence to question the President’s “sanity.” There is NO respectable psychiatric physician out there who is willing or able to determine a personality disorder without a proper examination. It’s unethical. It also violates the Goldwater Rule.

See also this: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/2/10/14551890/trump-mental-health-narcissistic-personality

We really have to stop focusing on how to get rid of this guy and focus, instead, on the future of American politics.

Personally, I see the demise of the two party system in the next 20 years, maybe sooner.

Trump is a RINO, Democrats are like Eisenhower Republicans, the GOP is a mess and being overrun by Tea Party nut jobs and religious zealots, and Millennials hate all of them and trust none of them.

RhettButler
01-17-2018, 03:45 AM
Of course it's not his job to diagnose any sort of personality disorder. I didn't say it was.

But plenty of headshrinkers question Trump's mental health. And maybe it is time to rethink the Goldwater rule.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/01/10/were-psychiatrists-its-perfectly-healthy-to-question-the-presidents-mental-state-216266

theimage13
01-17-2018, 05:22 AM
I obviously do not like Trump, but give me some credit on my ability to say "what the fuck." This doctor said that he didn't see a reason to question his sanity.

Fuck this guy. He's a professional ass kisser. Even if the president is sane, like Obama, or fucking crazier than fuck, like Trump. NO medical professional would say "hey, this guy is acting super normal!"

I'm going to repeat this just to be clear, and then I'm going to drop it. If this doesn't make more sense, then I just don't know how to get my point across.

There is a very large, and very significant difference, between having a horrible personality / generally being a terrible person, and having a physical neurological disorder that has damaged your brain. The bipartisan White House doctor conducted a standard medical test and concluded that the president does not suffer from the latter. HIS opinion is the one that matters, not the one of armchair practitioners who are making speculations from the sidelines.

You're acting the way Trump acts when he denies climate change. You've been given sound scientific evidence, it doesn't fit your desires, and so you're making baseless claims against it. You're making the "we can disagree with the facts" argument that everyone blasted the administration for last year. It's not a good approach and all it does is damage your own credibility. Please, learn to accept that not everything is going to fit the narrative you want it to, and as allegro mentioned, focus your attention on real actions you can do to make things better in the future instead of pounding your fists on the table and demanding that someone find an excuse to drag the man from office.

RhettButler
01-17-2018, 06:14 AM
Anyone catch THIS interview?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2018/01/16/secretary-nielsen-look-in-the-mirror-and-ask-yourself-these-questions/?tid=ss_fb&utm_term=.a7637b5bd4e8

Jinsai
01-17-2018, 10:12 AM
I'm going to repeat this just to be clear, and then I'm going to drop it. If this doesn't make more sense, then I just don't know how to get my point across.

There is a very large, and very significant difference, between having a horrible personality / generally being a terrible person, and having a physical neurological disorder that has damaged your brain. The bipartisan White House doctor conducted a standard medical test and concluded that the president does not suffer from the latter. HIS opinion is the one that matters, not the one of armchair practitioners who are making speculations from the sidelines.

You're acting the way Trump acts when he denies climate change. You've been given sound scientific evidence, it doesn't fit your desires, and so you're making baseless claims against it. You're making the "we can disagree with the facts" argument that everyone blasted the administration for last year. It's not a good approach and all it does is damage your own credibility. Please, learn to accept that not everything is going to fit the narrative you want it to, and as @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) mentioned, focus your attention on real actions you can do to make things better in the future instead of pounding your fists on the table and demanding that someone find an excuse to drag the man from office.

I understand what you and Allegro are saying, but did you actually LISTEN to this guy? Did you listen to him with ears? You can't tell me this doesn't sound like an apologist.

He acts like there was no reason to even evaluate his sanity! Yes, I know you cannot diagnose someone remotely, but just because Trump can count backwards from 7 on a good day means absolutely jack shit. Any real psychiatrist would tell you that this is an evaluation that goes on for an extended period of time, not insinuate that there was no reason to even do the evaluation.

Covfefe

october_midnight
01-17-2018, 10:26 AM
FWIW Lifehacker posted an article (https://vitals.lifehacker.com/the-montreal-cognitive-assessment-doesnt-prove-or-dispr-1822137490?utm_campaign=socialflow_lifehacker_twit ter&utm_source=lifehacker_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow) today with a link to the actual MoCA test, and fuck me in no way should that be the only cognitive test. One of the questions on it is if the test subject can recall FIVE basic words in order. Fuckssakes...

Jinsai
01-17-2018, 11:06 AM
Pretty much... just because Trump passed a test where he can identify a drawing of a rhino does not mean he isn't exhibiting seriously demented shit.

allegro
01-17-2018, 11:52 AM
FWIW Lifehacker posted an article (https://vitals.lifehacker.com/the-montreal-cognitive-assessment-doesnt-prove-or-dispr-1822137490?utm_campaign=socialflow_lifehacker_twit ter&utm_source=lifehacker_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow) today with a link to the actual MoCA test, and fuck me in no way should that be the only cognitive test. One of the questions on it is if the test subject can recall FIVE basic words in order. Fuckssakes...

Guys guys guys, listen, that test is used by NEUROLOGISTS!! I’ve SEEN neurologists conduct the test. A MAYO CLINIC NEUROLOGIST. It’s proven to be more than 94% effective in detecting dementia. It’s not about the stupid pictures or how many animals you can see at a zoo; it’s actually about how dementia robs you of your ability to recall even a few pics of farm animals or the time on a clock after you’ve been distracted or time has passed.

Read the article I linked, above, interviewing the guy who wrote the book on personality disorders. The WH doctor is actually attempting to calm a concerned public that is fearing that (based on the contents of the “Fire and Fury” book) Trump has short term memory loss and therefore dementia and is in his position of power.

Look, I can’t stand Trump; but these assertions that a rich egotistical guy should be required to undergo psychiatric testing (by a doctor totally unqualified to conduct said tests) is just whining. When and if Trump does something that ACTUALLY exhibits a Constitutional crisis, then maybe a hearing will be conducted.

sweeterthan
01-17-2018, 11:58 AM
I feel the same. Putting so much emphasis on his physical condition is gross imo. There are plenty of reasons to impeach him. We don’t need to weigh him publicly like a pig at the fair.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

allegro
01-17-2018, 12:06 PM
Also, note that THERE IS NO OTHER WAY to detect dementia other than (a) this standard neurological test or (b) an autopsy. Even Alzheimer’s can’t be 100% positively diagnosed without an autopsy. An MRI can sometimes detect certain changes, but even THAT is not a reliable test to detect dementia or Alzheimer’s.

My Mom’s issues were ultimately deemed to be a side effect of her STATIN meds (Zocor).

Dementia (any form) not only affects memory, it affects language skills, coordination, balance, etc. The standard test assesses all of these things. Dementia, even in the early stages, stands out to qualified physicians in ways we can’t see.

The only thing I’m wondering about, given that Trump is overweight and gets very little sleep, is whether or not he has sleep apnea, which can cause mental fogginess (at any age). This would require a sleep study, which may have actually been ordered but is not necessarily public data. Trump may already be using a CPAP and we don’t know it. The WH doctor said the President occasionally uses Ambien (which isn’t the best choice for an elderly patient (https://newoldage.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/more-on-sleeping-pills-and-the-elderly/)).

Sister Midnight
01-17-2018, 12:25 PM
Also, note that THERE IS NO OTHER WAY to detect dementia other than (b) an autopsy.

What do you have in mind ?

allegro
01-17-2018, 12:29 PM
What do you have in mind ?
Ha ha.

See how football and hockey players are donating their brains after death? Plenty of Alzheimer’s patients’ families do this, too. The stats are interesting, showing more Alzheimer’s MISdiagnosis than suspected. Dementia is a symptom with many origins.

The WH doctor DID discuss proper diet with the President. Alzheimer’s is now known as “Type 3 Diabetes” due to relatively recent studies linking it to sugar. Alzheimer’s (except for the genetic early-onset variety) is preventable.

See how all this LEADS TO DRIFT??

Jinsai
01-17-2018, 12:38 PM
Allegro, the problem is that it's the WRONG test, and if we're testing for dementia, it's not exhaustive enough.

The larger problem here is that regardless of whether or not he passed it with flying colors, it's now being used as proof positive that he's not crazy, which is bullshit. He wants the test to make the claim go away, and it doesn't. I'd rather he never have taken it if this was supposed to "settle the matter."


I feel the same. Putting so much emphasis on his physical condition is gross imo. There are plenty of reasons to impeach him. We don’t need to weigh him publicly like a pig at the fair.

I think we do... he won't show regular protocol. No tax returns, fine, we weigh you like a pig... but we don't let you weigh yourself and then declare the matter settled.

allegro
01-17-2018, 12:54 PM
Allegro, the problem is that it's the WRONG test, and if we're testing for dementia, it's not exhaustive enough.

BULLSHIT. That IS the fucking dementia test! That's IT. There IS NO FUCKING OTHER TEST. Trust me, I've been down this road a bunch of times with elderly family members, many times (and you got it coming, too, buddy). Neurologists from fucking MAYO CLINIC know what they're doing, and they're doing THIS TEST. We ain't living in Star Trek. We do not have any special Dementia Decoder Scanner. We have barely scratched the surface of neurology, relatively speaking.

SEE THIS (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-house-doctor-no-concerns-about-trumps-cognitive-health/). The physician who conducted this (voluntary) test is not qualified to determine "mental" fitness from a "psychological" point-of-view; he is only qualified to test Trump from a neurological point-of-view, looking for standard markers of dementia or cognitive abilities.

And, no, NOBODY is comparing Trump's standard dementia test to "crazy."

That's just TOTALLY disrespectful to people with actual mental illness.

READ THIS ARTICLE:

The psychiatrist who wrote the guide to personality disorders says diagnosing Trump is “bullshit” (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/2/10/14551890/trump-mental-health-narcissistic-personality)


Allen Frances is a psychiatrist who wrote the rules for diagnosing personality disorders in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. The DSM is the No. 1 tool mental health professionals have for making diagnoses.

Frances, a professor emeritus at Duke, doesn’t mince words about what he thinks of mental health professionals who are now using the DSM to diagnose President Donald Trump with a mental disorder. “What’s going on is bullshit,” he says.

[...]

“Everyone has a personality,” Frances says. “It’s not wrong to have a personality; it’s not mentally ill to have a personality. It’s only a disorder when it causes extreme distress, suffering, and impairment.”

Trump’s willingness to lie and endless self-promotion are traits that have, so far, worked out largely to his advantage. He’s president of the United States, after all.

But people who have a true narcissistic personality disorder, Frances explains, experience a crash of some sort, even if they can’t see it for themselves. They’ll lose their jobs, their spouses and children will abandon them, and their “bubble of grandiosity [will] burst,” he says. “They feel absolutely miserable, can’t function, can’t face the world.” (Research has found that a narcissistic personality can, to an extent, help you move up in the world.)

[...]

I called Joshua Miller, a psychologist who directs the University of Georgia’s clinical training program and studies the differences between personality and disorder, for a third perspective. He says that in many cases, it can be hard to tell where personality ends and illness begins.

That’s because these days, most mental illnesses exist on a spectrum. “Even disorders we thought ... you either had it or not — categorical things like schizophrenia — we now know are much more like spectrum disorders,” he says. “You can have some schizophrenic traits, but not all.” And that’s especially true of personality disorders, which he says are all just extreme manifestations of otherwise “normal” personality traits.

The question What is a mental disorder? he says is “probably one of the most intractable debates that exists. And it’s playing out with Trump now.”

The DSM is meant to standardize treatment and care of mental illness. It’s meant to decrease the subjectivity of making a diagnosis. And it’s the best tool the profession has.

But the human brain avoids standardization. The truth is, Miller says, “there is no magical point where you go from having sub-threshold narcissism to a disorder. We can make a cutoff, but we should acknowledge it is arbitrary. ... There is no sharp divide between ... a shitty personality and a disorder.” All of our personalities cause us and others harm every now and then. It takes an extremely clear and consistent pattern of harm to reach the level of a diagnosis.

Many people make bad or immoral decisions and do not suffer from any malady. As psychologist Cedar Riener wrote for Vox, calling Trump’s behavior an illness may be an easy escape from answering hard questions about politics today:


Efforts to label Trump with a mental disorder let us off the hook in thinking about the kinds of personalities our culture rewards — and about the state of our politics. The very traits that many claim are toxic and dysfunctional have not only failed to harm him but have contributed to his success.


STOP trying to remove this fucker. DO YOU NOT REALIZE that a President Pence would be like a fucking RELIGIOUS HORROR SHOW?

Jinsai
01-17-2018, 01:02 PM
STOP trying to remove this fucker. DO YOU NOT REALIZE that a President Pence would be like a fucking RELIGIOUS HORROR SHOW?

I've already thrown my two cents into why I think this is bull, and that the threat of Pence is a limp contingency plan. He would be a lame duck. By the time he'd be in office, he'd be powerless.

Also, the only reason he hasn't had a crash of some sort is because he has a golden parachute. To declare that someone with a narcissistic personality disorder would have crashed by this point when they're also a trust fund baby with enough inherited cash to withstand multiple bankruptcies... COME ON.

He WILL crash, and at that point, will the doctor say it was fair to speculate that he might have narcissistic personality disorder?

allegro
01-17-2018, 01:18 PM
I've already thrown my two cents into why I think this is bull, and that the threat of Pence is a limp contingency plan. He would be a lame duck. By the time he'd be in office, he'd be powerless.

Also, the only reason he hasn't had a crash of some sort is because he has a golden parachute. To declare that someone with a narcissistic personality disorder would have crashed by this point when they're also a trust fund baby with enough inherited cash to withstand multiple bankruptcies... COME ON.

He WILL crash, and at that point, will the doctor say it was fair to speculate that he might have narcissistic personality disorder?

Look, this is the UNITED STATES, we don't do things without, literally, an "Act of Congress." This stuff all requires OFFICIAL PROCEDURES determined by our CONSTITUTION.

See this (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/2/9/14488980/25th-amendment-trump-pence).

Also, I live right next to Indiana (Pence's former state of Governance) and I know LOTS of Indiana residents who would rather have Trump than Pence and they could spend hours explaining why.

See this article (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/23/the-danger-of-president-pence).


“If Pence were to become President for any reason, the government would be run by the Koch brothers—period. He’s been their tool for years,” he said. Bannon is equally alarmed at the prospect of a Pence Presidency. He told me, “I’m concerned he’d be a President that the Kochs would own.”


In the spring of 2015, Pence signed a bill called the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which he presented as innocuous. “He said it protected religious freedom, and who’s against that?” Oesterle recalled. But then a photograph of the closed signing session surfaced. It showed Pence surrounded by monks and nuns, along with three of the most virulently anti-gay activists in the state. The image went viral. Indiana residents began examining the law more closely, and discovered that it essentially legalized discrimination against homosexuals by businesses in the state.

“The No. 1 challenge we face in Indiana is the ability to attract and retain talented people,” Oesterle said. “If the state is seen as bigoted to certain members of the community, it makes the job monumentally harder.” The Religious Freedom Restoration Act, Oesterle said, “was not an issue of Pence’s creation”—it had “gurgled out” of the far-right fringe of the Indiana legislature. But, he added, “there was a lack of leadership.” In his view, Pence should have prevented it and other extreme bills from moving forward. “You can see it happening in Washington now,” Oesterle said. “He’s not that effective a leader, or administrator. Extremists grabbed the initiative.”

The outcry over the Religious Freedom Restoration Act was enormous. Gay-rights groups condemned the bill and urged boycotts of the state. Pete Buttigieg, the young gay mayor of South Bend, who is a rising figure in the Democratic Party, told me that he tried to talk to Pence about the legislation, which he felt would cause major economic damage to Indiana. “But he got this look in his eye,” Buttigieg recalled. “He just inhabits a different reality. It’s very difficult for him to lay aside the social agenda. He’s a zealot.”

NO President has EVER been removed from office in our 242-year history. Bill Clinton committed PERJURY and STILL wasn't removed from office. Reagan had ALZHEIMER'S for TWO FUCKING YEARS and his wife Nancy was pretty much running the country, but Reagan wasn't removed from office. Nixon wasn't removed from office, he resigned before a Senate hearing occurred.

Here's what I think, though: If Trump is going to go down, it will be due to MONEY LAUNDERING. This per Steve Bannon, whoa this is getting interesting (http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/17/politics/bannon-mueller-strike-deal/index.html).

Jinsai
01-17-2018, 01:24 PM
Look, this is the UNITED STATES, we don't do things without, literally, an "Act of Congress." This stuff all requires OFFICIAL PROCEDURES determined by our CONSTITUTION.

See this (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/2/9/14488980/25th-amendment-trump-pence).

Also, I live right next to Indiana (Pence's former state of Governance) and I know LOTS of Indiana residents who would rather have Trump than Pence and they could spend hours explaining why.

See this article (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/23/the-danger-of-president-pence).

We enact repeated travel bans via executive order... Trump can say crazy shit on Twitter that can be treated like official statements... it can piss off foreign countries with nuclear bombs.... if the nuclear bombs are first strike thrown at America, they'll hit the part he cares about the least.

I know we have due process and shit, but the KLAN is back. The fucking KKK is a real thing again! It's all because of this guy and his dog whistle.

The president has power, outside of regular procedure. He can tweet. He has a supermajority.

Also, he's basically rolling out everything Pence wants anyway.

Swykk
01-17-2018, 01:40 PM
@Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) You know I got love for both of you and oddly enough, I am somewhere near the middle of where you both are standing.

I also believe that test to be simple (not to mention Trump could easily have been coached on it). It’s a lot easier to say he’s not physically healthy. You can point to his diet or just the obvious—he isn’t 6’3” nor does he look near 239lbs. He’s pulling from his friend Vince McMahon’s playbook on wrestlers exaggerating height and weight.

However, to allegro’s point about Pence—Hello, I’m Dave and I’ll be playing the role of “Indiana resident who doesn’t want Pence to be President EVER.” He left a lot of problems in my unfortunate state (financial and social). Where Trump attacks his would be allies in the Republican Party as well as intelligence communities, Pence would not, and would be more efficient at passing horrid policies.

Ive mentioned it before—my hope is that both of them (as well as everyone involved) goes down hard in the Mueller investigation. It’s clear Pence lied about what he knew and it makes me wonder how involved he was.

Jinsai
01-17-2018, 01:48 PM
@Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) You know I got love for both of you and oddly enough, I am somewhere near the middle of where you both are standing.

I also believe that test to be simple (not to mention Trump could’ve easily have been coached on it). It’s a lot easier to say he’s not physically healthy. You can point to his diet or just the obvious—he isn’t 6’3” nor does he look near 239lbs. He’s pulling from his friend Vince McMahon’s playbook on wrestlers exaggerating height and weight.

However, to allegro’s point about Pence—Hello, I’m Dave and I’ll be playing the role of “Indiana resident who doesn’t want Pence to be President EVER.” He left a lot of problems in my unfortunate state (financial and social). Where Trump attacks his would be allies in the Republican Party as well as intelligence communities, Pence would not, and would be more efficient at passing horrid policies.

Ive mentioned it before—my hope is that both of them (as well as everyone involved) goes down hard in the Mueller investigation. It’s clear Pence lied about what he knew and it makes me wonder how involved he was.

I agree, and respect both of you.

Pence's a monster. The biggest fear would be if he were to be reelected.
To me anyway. I also think he'd never in a million years get reelected.
I fucking hate the idea of president Pence.

I also think the impeachment of Trump would be a step in the right direction.... and if it happened, while congress turns blue, he would be told to sit the fuck down

allegro
01-17-2018, 01:49 PM
I know we have due process and shit, but the KLAN is back. The fucking KKK is a real thing again!
Dude, the Klan has never gone away. It's always been here. The Obama administration caused the racists to uprise and be more vocal and obvious to mainstream media. https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/3kpymw/the-klu-klux-klan-still-has-active-groups-in-33-states

Trump is a marketing person; he sees an untapped group and waves a giant neon sign attracting their attention; see also Richard M. Nixon's Southern Strategy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy) which has been in effect ever since.

This past Monday having been the birthday of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., we can also reflect on this (http://www.thekingcenter.org/assassination-conspiracy-trial).

My husband thinks that we are ultimately headed toward a revolution, much like what the French and the Russians and the Cubans experienced, not only due to racial inequality but also due to vast economic disparity.

Jinsai
01-17-2018, 01:53 PM
oh come on, we all know visibility for Klan shit is getting out of control... we know racists are there, but now they think they can grandstand

allegro
01-17-2018, 02:00 PM
oh come on, we all know visibility for Klan shit is getting out of control... we know racists are there, but now they think they can grandstand

The Klan barely scratches the surface, they aren't even the real threat, anymore. That Charlottesville incident was conducted by the new Alt-Right, and its leaders are college-educated preppies hell-bent on making this country all-white.

They are FAR more dangerous than the Klan (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/local/charlottesville-timeline/?utm_term=.f02f707bd5ca).

And it was all stirred up even more by a Black Guy being in the White House. I am horrified by the TONS of comments I see online BLAMING Obama for "racism." Like, what the fuck.

However, they are still a minority. Trump isn't courting only them; he is MOSTLY courting Americans addicted to reality television who worship at the alter of the cult of personality.

I know a lot of Trump voters online, and when Trump says shit that pisses everybody ELSE off, they applaud, "yup, that's our boy! He's fucking with all of them, he says what he wants, he's not a puppet!" etc. They are CONVINCED that he is a brilliant rich businessman and pretty much a Rock Star to them. He's their Trent Reznor, cussing and throwing shit and nothing he does is wrong. And a lot of these people hadn't even bothered voting Republican (or voted at ALL), before. They see him as the anti-politician. He doesn't play by the Rules. And they like that. So we can't really fix that, other than present somebody who is electable by the OTHER people out there.

Ultimately, this blatant racism rising to the top will serve as a good thing, because it's out in the open, it's no longer hidden; we have ripped the bandage off of this wound and we are airing it out for all to see; these people coming out in visible numbers means they aren't hiding, and we cannot move forward and heal and fix these things until we SEE that racism still visibly exists in this country.

The SCOTUS reversed a huge important aspect of the Voters Rights Act because the majority of the justices (naively) believed that we are no longer racist and it isn't necessary. We are now showing that it never really went away, and will likely always be necessary.

Jinsai
01-17-2018, 02:16 PM
that's true... Trump was the Rust Belt superstar. His prominence, as unlikely as it was, is largely why he won.

We should probably consider, on a side note, that saying "hey, fuck you Rust Belt!!!" is going to backlash.

Even if it's true.

allegro
01-17-2018, 02:27 PM
that's true... Trump was the Rust Belt superstar. His prominence, as unlikely as it was, is largely why he won.

We should probably consider, on a side note, that saying "hey, fuck you Rust Belt!!!" is going to backlash.

Even if it's true.

Easy for you to say, coming from the cushy liberal confines of California. But these Rust Belt people have experienced financial hardship, unemployment, closing of factories, corruption, etc. AND, Clinton BARELY covered them; she spent more time in purple states like Nevada and Arizona than in Ohio or Michigan. She sent a message: "I don't care about you." BILL Clinton, a guy who WON (twice) as a populist candidate from the South, WARNED the DNC about their neglecting these areas of the country, but they told Bill to fuck off.

Ultimately, the DNC and voters who didn't bother voting are why we have Trump.

Obama AND the new Democratic Senator of Alabama were elected by black women.

Present an ELECTABLE option and ... there ya go.

Clinton lost due to her placing her focus on two incorrect areas: She's a woman, and Trump's an asshole.

So she ignored all of the ways she could help people in need or without jobs or without healthcare, etc.

We have to stop pointing at the Cheetoh in office as something we have to get rid of, and see, instead, how we got to this point and how to avoid it.

Bernie Sanders should have run as an Independent. But, he still wasn't likely to get the minority vote like an Obama.

Jinsai
01-17-2018, 02:49 PM
OK... I deleted my last post because I forgot to not make shit personal on here... but come the fuck on. The "coastal elites" fucking GET IT.

We're not covering our ears when we hear about the things the rust belt is sad about.
We hear it. All of it. Some is justified and some of it is RACIST AS FUCK.

And Trump is the racist misogynist cheerleader.

allegro
01-17-2018, 03:11 PM
OK... I deleted my last post because I forgot to not make shit personal on here... but come the fuck on. The "coastal elites" fucking GET IT.

We're not covering our ears when we hear about the things the rust belt is sad about.
We hear it. All of it. Some is justified and some of it is RACIST AS FUCK.

And Trump is the racist misogynist cheerleader.

Look, I'M not saying you're Coastal Elite as a jab ... compared to the DEEP SOUTH you ARE. It is what it is. It's all relative.

And the Rust Belt isn't racist as fuck. They didn't elect Trump because of racism; they elected Trump in the Rust Belt because:

(a) They think politics is rife with elite corruption that only serves the top percentage of rich people and white collar and completely ignores blue collar;

(b) To them, Trump is the epitome of "non-political." He doesn't play the game, he plays his own game. He isn't even playing the Republican game;

(c) To them, Trump has started his OWN party, the Trump party. Which is separate from the Republican gamesmanship in Washington;

(d) To them, Clinton was the epitome of corruption. But, bottom line, NO Republicans would EVER vote for a Democrat, even if Jesus Himself was the Democratic candidate, because:

(e) GUNS

Meanwhile, while they're watching the circus and taking the free bread, the Southern voters are missing the fact that the South has never recovered from the Civil War, economically. The true "shit hole" is the American South, which has HUGE swaths of wide open areas with lots of people and ZERO employment and generations of Southern white folks collecting Disability checks. That's the reality.

Yet, who do they keep electing? People who want to take away "entitlements" and health insurance and Medicaid ... but, you can keep your GUNS.

Plato may be ultimately right: Democracy doesn't work because most voters are too fucking stupid.

EXHIBIT A (https://www.instagram.com/p/BeBAVmZnPzn/)

Trump is Trump. He lives in his own world, from birth. He has never wanted for anything, and he's basically a rich Archie Bunker.

There's a REASON why that show was so popular: it resonated with people because Archie Bunker represented a LOT of Americans. HE STILL DOES. And the worst part? They themselves don't see it. They swear they're "not racist" or "some of their best friends are black people" or their lawyer is a Jew or whatever, but they don't see that they are the problem.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ccco4ASA1EI

Jinsai
01-17-2018, 03:14 PM
that's the part that confounds me... they're "voting for their team but it's gotta be an outsider," but they want someone with their team's "R" but doesn't get along with their team... the "cuck" thing comes to mind too... it's fucking confusing.

Guns?

...also, there's something kinda racist/sexist/super-stupid going on here.

theimage13
01-17-2018, 03:20 PM
@allego 2020

Jinsai
01-17-2018, 03:25 PM
@allego 2020

Why not...

I just wish I could figure out what the fuck is going on here. Everything Allegro is saying is plausible... it just doesn't cover the racist/narcissist angle of appeal. Also, that the people voting for this guy are REALLY really really really REALLY fucking stupid.

And does that mean, by large, Americans are dumb?

allegro
01-17-2018, 03:33 PM
America has, for the most part, been a country made up of individualists, not collectivists. In for yourself and your own benefit, vs. the collective benefit of others. (See many Asian cultures for an example; "the nail that stands out gets hammered back down" vs we are a bunch of nails standing up)

Selfies, Facebook, Snapchat, etc. are all examples of our individualistic (and even narcissistic) tendencies as a culture.

In the age of YouTube stars, Social Media, the Kardashians, the Housewives of (insert here), Sister Wives, and parents gleefully posting 200 photos a day of their kids online as if each one is a special snowflake, it's no wonder the Commander in Chief is just a reflection of our own self-obsessed culture.

Slowly, though, that is evolving into something more collectivistic. It may take a few generations but it's coming.

Look at Henry Ford, for example. Innovative, but he also paid his employees a fair enough wage, and priced his automobiles at a fair enough price, for his own employees to be able to purchase the automobiles that they built.

During WW2, we had the Works Progress Administration (or the WPA) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_Progress_Administration), which actually employed my paternal grandfather for a while during the Depression.

Could we have something like that NOW?

We SHOULD.

Louie_Cypher
01-17-2018, 03:45 PM
i still think this will be his save face way out of office. with bannon testifying new kakistan money laundering allegations good watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YexnrlGhNEY
-Louie

allegate
01-17-2018, 03:48 PM
I just read the David Foster Wallace essay about McCain's run against Bush Jr. in 2000. It reminded me of Bernie and Trump in the way McCain was galvanizing voters in ways that surprised people. Really interesting read with today's eyes.

theimage13
01-17-2018, 05:22 PM
Also, that the people voting for this guy are REALLY really really really REALLY fucking stupid.

And does that mean, by large, Americans are dumb?

Another dangerous generalization. Of the few people I know who (admittedly) voted for him, one is a top-of-their-class grad from an Ivy League school who went on to accelerated promotions in the armed forces before coming back, whizzing through law school, and being gainfully employed before they had even finished. Not exactly what I would called "really really really really really really really fucking stupid".

Yes, a LOT of really stupid people voted for him. But guess what? A lot of really stupid people voted for Clinton, too. And a lot of really smart people voted for Trump. To act as though only some cartoon toothless rednecks voted him in is to ignore how he actually won the election, and that goes ahead and sets us up for four more years. The only real stupid thing to do here is underestimate his base and pretend that anyone with a pulse would handily beat him in the next election.

theimage13
01-17-2018, 05:27 PM
During WW2, we had the Works Progress Administration (or the WPA) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_Progress_Administration), which actually employed my paternal grandfather for a while during the Depression.

Could we have something like that NOW?

We SHOULD.

Jesus fucking christ, YES. We have infrastructure issues in this country. We have unemployment issues in this country. How is it that we haven't figured out a way to go "wait...why not give all these people a living wage to go out and fix things that need fixing"? I mean, I know it's not literally as simple as that. But the base concept is incredibly simple and I can't imagine a partisan reason to be against it. One of my favorite places in the world is a state park about an hour from here, and it wasn't until my 20s that I noticed one of the plaques in the park that noted that the bridge I was walking over - and frankly, just about the whole park - was the result of the WPA. So yeah, count me in as a huge fan of bringing back something like that.

RhettButler
01-17-2018, 05:37 PM
Maybe we can have a Nixon/Agnew-redux--two for the price of one. Does Pence have some kickback scandal in Maryland we don't know about? Then we wait out President Ryan until Biden is sworn in in 2021.

allegro
01-17-2018, 09:08 PM
Meanwhile, forget Stormy Daniels ...

THIS is some crazy awesome shit!!!

A DEMOCRAT wins a Wisconsin State Senate seat that’s been held by Republicans for nearly twenty years (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2018/01/16/democrats-flip-state-senate-seat-in-wisconsin/?utm_term=.7c385587ed7d).

Sister Midnight
01-17-2018, 09:13 PM
Meanwhile, forget Stormy Daniels ...

crossword puzzle......

Jinsai
01-17-2018, 09:21 PM
Another dangerous generalization. Of the few people I know who (admittedly) voted for him, one is a top-of-their-class grad from an Ivy League school who went on to accelerated promotions in the armed forces before coming back, whizzing through law school, and being gainfully employed before they had even finished. Not exactly what I would called "really really really really really really really fucking stupid".

Yes, a LOT of really stupid people voted for him. But guess what? A lot of really stupid people voted for Clinton, too. And a lot of really smart people voted for Trump. To act as though only some cartoon toothless rednecks voted him in is to ignore how he actually won the election, and that goes ahead and sets us up for four more years. The only real stupid thing to do here is underestimate his base and pretend that anyone with a pulse would handily beat him in the next election.

I'm not underestimating or diminishing anything, I'm asking "WHAT THE FUCK?!"

Have you asked your smart friend that? I have family that voted for him, and their reasons are really dumb, and entirely related to hating Hillary. The psychology behind that is sadly transparent.

I know some smart people who voted for Trump, and it was for selfish reasons that they're coy about admitting to.

allegro
01-17-2018, 09:32 PM
crossword puzzle......

Lol lol !

Meanwhile ... this DACA stuff is getting totally nuts, this is a really good read:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/kelly-calls-some-of-trumps-campaign-pledges-on-immigration-and-wall-uninformed-meeting-attendees-say/2018/01/17/3e2524bc-fb86-11e7-a46b-a3614530bd87_story.html?utm_term=.beca33948f71

Jinsai re smart people for Trump: Republican tribal divide. They wanted a Republican President to obtain a Supermajority to get things like this tax bill.

Jinsai
01-17-2018, 09:36 PM
Well now that Trump just held his "awards ceremony for dishonest media" can we ask our friends again, why the fuck did you support this motherfucker?

allegro
01-17-2018, 09:39 PM
Ohhh yes we can’t forget to mention Jeff Flake comparing Trump’s language regarding the press (calling the press the “enemy of the people”) to Joseph Stalin:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/01/17/our-democracy-will-not-last-jeff-flakes-speech-comparing-trump-to-stalin-annotated/


“The enemy of the people,” was what the president of the United States called the free press in 2017.

Mr. President, it is a testament to the condition of our democracy that our own president uses words infamously spoken by Josef Stalin to describe his enemies

Jinsai
01-17-2018, 09:44 PM
Stalin, Goebbels... He's just like the best of the Josephs. Tremendous.

It's just... how is this STILL acceptable to any intelligent person? OK, I can accept that a smart person would have voted for him, for whatever reason... how can an intelligent person STILL support him?

The only "smart" person that I know who still supports him is my brother, and it's because he is an unabashed asshole who will tell you straight up to your face that he likes money more than your opinion. What he won't tell you is that he's kind of a dumbass when it comes to macroeconomics, and that he's a bigot.

Sister Midnight
01-17-2018, 09:59 PM
Only the Republicans would attempt to blame the Democrats for a government shutdown when the Republicans control the house and senate and have a boob in the white house. As the media will pick up on this say around Friday, Trump will have to do some crazy shit to distract the voters and the news junkies from this reality. The problem is Trump is running out of grandiose things to do to get media attention, when the President of the United States pays a porn star $130,000 to cover up an affair and it basically gets no media attention. Trump is running out of things to distract people with. So as we head to a government shutdown on Friday, it is always fun to guess what Trump will do to distract attention from that.
I think he is going to burn a cross on the white house lawn and hold a KKK rally at the White House, that should distract the public and the media, get your tiki torches ready.....

Jinsai
01-17-2018, 10:02 PM
Only the Republicans would attempt to blame the Democrats for a government shutdown when the Republicans control the house and senate and have a boob in the white house. As the media will pick up on this say around Friday, Trump will have to do some crazy shit to distract the voters and the news junkies from this reality. The problem is Trump is running out of grandiose things to do to get media attention, when the President of the United States pays a porn star $130,000 to cover up an affair and it basically gets no media attention. Trump is running out of things to distract people with. So as we head to a government shutdown on Friday, it is always fun to guess what Trump will do to distract attention from that.
I think he is going to burn a cross on the white house lawn and hold a KKK rally at the White House, that should distract the public and the media, get your tiki torches ready.....

This IS the problem. Sarah Huckabee Sanders might as well make a loud farting sound as a response to a question regarding any stupid shit Trump is doing, and it'll get the same traction. Republicans will hold the tiki torch until the mid terms, and then crucify him asap, because then shit's gonna get real and the free ride is over.

In other news, Bannon just struck a deal to avoid having to incriminate himself through testimony.

I don't want to sound dismissive of the points @theimage13 (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=809) is making, but I really implore everyone to please listen to that testimony from the doctor. He claims he is .1 short of being obese. He claims he is six foot three and weighs 239 pounds.

HE IS ALSO OBESE.

This isn't like Trump denying global warming. I'm not denying science. Trump's doctor just told me he isn't crazy, and also he isn't overweight.

If Trump isn't overweight, I'm crazy.

sick among the pure
01-17-2018, 10:56 PM
Some is justified and some of it is RACIST AS FUCK.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you the rest belt isn't racist as fuck because they sure the hell can be. But to simplify the problems (re: elections) for this area as "some of their problems is that they're racist as fuck" grossly over-simplifies the problem as well as what we can do to get them to vote for people who aren't, well, Trump.
And a big one BIG one that the DNC overlooks is this:




(e) GUNS

...

Yet, who do they keep electing? People who want to take away "entitlements" and health insurance and Medicaid ... but, you can keep your GUNS.




Guns?



Yes. Guns. It's a BIG deal in this region. Big enough that if you had a shit shitty shit shitter as a candidate who was pro-guns and literally Jesus Christ reborn but wanting a "common sense gun policy" as the other, they'd vote for shit-face. Because guns. The anti-Hillary yard signs came and left, but the "repeal the S.A.F.E. act" and other pro-2nd amendment signs (as well as bumper stickers, window clings, hats, shirts, tattoos, etc) have been around pretty much forever. Hell, on local government (city, county, state) surveys, there is always AT LEAST one question about gun laws.
Guns are huge in the rust belt. Like, to the point where a literal tree-hugging hippie liberal snowflake bleeding heart fuck like me owns guns. Because GUNS.

Jinsai
01-17-2018, 11:00 PM
Let me clarify... I'm not saying every Trump supporter in the rust belt is racist... I'm saying that there's a lot of racists who hear the dog whistle, and there's a lot of people in the rust belt who certainly don't have a problem with racism, its appeal, and even tacitly endorse it (despite not being racists) if it reaches a mutual goal.

I don't even know if Trump is a racist. I know he LIKES racists.

allegro
01-18-2018, 12:05 AM
This IS the problem. Sarah Huckabee Sanders might as well make a loud farting sound as a response to a question regarding any stupid shit Trump is doing, and it'll get the same traction. Republicans will hold the tiki torch until the mid terms, and then crucify him asap, because then shit's gonna get real and the free ride is over.

In other news, Bannon just struck a deal to avoid having to incriminate himself through testimony.

I don't want to sound dismissive of the points @theimage13 (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=809) is making, but I really implore everyone to please listen to that testimony from the doctor. He claims he is .1 short of being obese. He claims he is six foot three and weighs 239 pounds.

HE IS ALSO OBESE.

This isn't like Trump denying global warming. I'm not denying science. Trump's doctor just told me he isn't crazy, and also he isn't overweight.

If Trump isn't overweight, I'm crazy.
Trump likely provided his height to the physician, likely to lower his BMI.

Here’s the thing, though:

This is what ALWAYS happens when it comes to a President’s health.

Americans at the time did not know that JFK suffered constant pain from a back injury (PT boat) and was on constant pain drugs and swam in the WH pool to try to alleviate pain. JFK also had Addison’s disease.

Americans did not know that FDR was confined to a wheelchair.

Eisenhower had a heart attack while in office and it was kept top secret.

Reagan had the beginnings of Alzheimer’s during the last two years of his final term, but it was kept secret.

See this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2016/09/12/the-secret-history-of-presidential-disease-sickness-and-deception/?utm_term=.f887773aa852

theimage13
01-18-2018, 05:07 AM
Okay, another question for you, allegro

I was reading last night that Cohen was pressed on the whole Stormy Daniels payoff thing. He was answering questions about it, until they got to "did you ever arrange a payment to this person," at which point he refused to provide an answer either way. Does that scream "yes, I arranged a payment" to you? I can't think of a reason not to say "no" unless he knows he'd be perjuring himself, but I know you generally have much more knowledge of/experience with that world than I do.

Sister Midnight
01-18-2018, 07:30 AM
Trump likely provided his height to the physician, likely to lower his BMI.

Here’s the thing, though:

This is what ALWAYS happens when it comes to a President’s health.

Americans at the time did not know that JFK suffered constant pain from a back injury (PT boat) and was on constant pain drugs and swam in the WH pool to try to alleviate pain. JFK also had Addison’s disease.

Americans did not know that FDR was confined to a wheelchair.

Eisenhower had a heart attack while in office and it was kept top secret.

Reagan had the beginnings of Alzheimer’s during the last two years of his final term, but it was kept secret.

See this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2016/09/12/the-secret-history-of-presidential-disease-sickness-and-deception/?utm_term=.f887773aa852

But this is what we know about Trump so far.....

He has a possible golden shower tape that he may be blackmailed for

He likes golden showers

He pays off porn stars for their silence

and he non-consentially takes a cheeseburger to bed with him every night

This sounds less like a medical health measure, and more like Motley Crue Behind The Music.

allegro
01-18-2018, 09:45 AM
Okay, another question for you, allegro

I was reading last night that Cohen was pressed on the whole Stormy Daniels payoff thing. He was answering questions about it, until they got to "did you ever arrange a payment to this person," at which point he refused to provide an answer either way. Does that scream "yes, I arranged a payment" to you? I can't think of a reason not to say "no" unless he knows he'd be perjuring himself, but I know you generally have much more knowledge of/experience with that world than I do.

Who was questioning him? Was he under oath?

I was watching MSNBC last night and they were discussing how a bunch of the Trump team, upon being questioned by Congress (Congressional Investigation Committee), are flat out refusing to answer, aren’t invoking executive privilege (probably isn’t grounds), just refusing to answer. And I guess forcing them to answer would require a “Contempt of Congress” procedure which is evidently drawn out and a pain in the ass. But they (legal experts and talking heads on MSNBC) said that it is likely that the Grand Jury or Mueller will talk with them and THEN they aren’t likely to pull that shit because then they WILL be forced to answer. So Congress has no teeth? But this refusing to answer appears to be an organized plan.

theimage13
01-18-2018, 10:10 AM
Who was questioning him? Was he under oath?

I was watching MSNBC last night and they were discussing how a bunch of the Trump team, upon being questioned by Congress (Congressional Investigation Committee), are flat out refusing to answer, aren’t invoking executive privilege (probably isn’t grounds), just refusing to answer. And I guess forcing them to answer would require a “Contempt of Congress” procedure which is evidently drawn out and a pain in the ass. But they (legal experts and talking heads on MSNBC) said that it is likely that the Grand Jury or Mueller will talk with them and THEN they aren’t likely to pull that shit because then they WILL be forced to answer. So Congress has no teeth? But this refusing to answer appears to be an organized plan.

Alas, in the flurry of things I've heard/seen/read lately, I don't recall where this came from. I believe the general context was that Cohen was being questioned by reporters, so I'm assuming that wouldn't be "under oath" but could clearly be used later were he to say otherwise while under oath.

And in regard to the rest of your post, I'm assuming that this is Mueller has allegedly handed Bannon a grand jury summons - as a way to either get him on record in a more meaningful setting than the congressional things, or as a bargaining chip to get him to speak more candidly in a face to face setting.

allegro
01-18-2018, 01:29 PM
Alas, in the flurry of things I've heard/seen/read lately, I don't recall where this came from. I believe the general context was that Cohen was being questioned by reporters, so I'm assuming that wouldn't be "under oath" but could clearly be used later were he to say otherwise while under oath.

And in regard to the rest of your post, I'm assuming that this is Mueller has allegedly handed Bannon a grand jury summons - as a way to either get him on record in a more meaningful setting than the congressional things, or as a bargaining chip to get him to speak more candidly in a face to face setting.

1) Refusing to answer a reporter's question (or anyone's question) doesn't really do much of anything, since you're not saying anything, right?

2) I guess Bannon's team agreed to meet with Mueller, with Bannon bringing his own attorney (you can't have an attorney with you when being questioned by a grand jury), and Bannon's attorney is also the White House's attorney, so ....
Note that the White House has an entirely separate attorney than the President, it's like the "White House" is its own entity, it's always this way. The WH attorney represents the office of the WH. Anyway, according to the talking
heads I saw on MSNBC, this is being interpreted as a kind of "peace offering" from Bannon to the White House / President (after the stuff Bannon said in the "Fire and Fury" book), since now the WH attorney can be there to listen to
the questions being asked of Bannon. Which wouldn't happen in a grand jury setting. So, this is just an initial questioning and kind of a recognizance mission.

theimage13
01-18-2018, 03:06 PM
Gotcha. I guess my question is just WHY a lawyer would refuse to explicitly deny something if it was, in fact, untrue. Meaning if Cohen never arranged a payment to this woman, what reason would he have for refusing to answer instead of just telling the press outright "no, I did not do this"? That sort of explicit denial usually carries more weight coming from a lawyer, as the public are more likely to believe that they wouldn't make such a black and white statement unless it were the truth. In that case, why refuse to speak instead of just denying?

I'm not trying to imply that it's a sign that he did in fact make that payment. I'm just scratching my head looking for a different way to interpret his silence when he's already issued denials on other things.

allegro
01-18-2018, 03:23 PM
Gotcha. I guess my question is just WHY a lawyer would refuse to explicitly deny something if it was, in fact, untrue. Meaning if Cohen never arranged a payment to this woman, what reason would he have for refusing to answer instead of just telling the press outright "no, I did not do this"? That sort of explicit denial usually carries more weight coming from a lawyer, as the public are more likely to believe that they wouldn't make such a black and white statement unless it were the truth. In that case, why refuse to speak instead of just denying?

I'm not trying to imply that it's a sign that he did in fact make that payment. I'm just scratching my head looking for a different way to interpret his silence when he's already issued denials on other things.

Because by answering the question, you're opening the door to further questioning and acknowledging that it even HAPPENED. Lawyers are bound to the ethics of attorney-client privilege, so they can't just open the door to private matters, it's grounds for disbarment. If Cohen was subpoenaed, he'd likely still invoke attorney-client privilege.

Edit: This often applies to stuff that is untrue, as well. The lawyer typically wants to discuss these matters and questions with the client, first, before even attempting to respond to the Press. The alleged "agreement" also included a non-disclosure clause. The interview with Stormy Whatever (being passed around in the tabloids right now) was from before the date of the alleged agreement. One of Trump's other attorneys, who is being accused of handing out money in this deal, HAS gone public saying it's not true, and this likely doesn't violate attorney-client privilege because if he never had anything to do with this type of matter and he could make that clear.

Edit: Note that Cohen is in-house counsel for the Trump Organization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Cohen_(lawyer)).

allegro
01-18-2018, 11:38 PM
Man, politics hasn’t been this fascinating in a long time. It appears that Bannon’s money laundering assertion may be correct:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-trump-russia-nra-connection-heres-what-you-need-to-know-w515615

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/369654-steele-dossier-firm-suspected-trump-russia-money-laundering

Sister Midnight
01-18-2018, 11:46 PM
Man, politics hasn’t been this fascinating in a long time. It appears that Bannon’s money laundering assertion may be correct:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-trump-russia-nra-connection-heres-what-you-need-to-know-w515615

I saw this story on MSNBC tonight, I'm not sure where this story is going to go but I'm pretty sure it isn't going to be any place good. I'm sure a "very stable genius" could figure it out.

allegro
01-18-2018, 11:56 PM
Essential Consultants, LLC, a Delaware limited liability company

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-lawyer-hush-money-4eb9bcf42c52/

Lol lol lol

allegro
01-19-2018, 12:05 AM
Ok so Mexico isn’t paying for the wall (“100%!”)

And we have crazy rough terrain that won’t allow a wall in miles and miles of territory

And we have a big corporate tax cut that will increase the deficit

But Trump is threatening to shut down the government because we aren’t paying for the fake wall

And he Tweeted that Mexicans are smuggling in drugs so we need the giant wall

Except, he didn’t get the memo: http://www.kpbs.org/news/2017/jun/21/us-mexico-drug-tunnels-change-amid-increased-borde/

Sister Midnight
01-19-2018, 12:18 AM
I think shutting down the government is not going to go as well as Trump thinks it will, kind of like his "Shithole" comment last week he was calling his friends to see what they thought about it, and then when he realized it wasn't going to get him the traction he thought it would he denied the whole thing. He actually thought that the "shithole" comment would play well to his base.

The idea of what he is doing frightens me because he is as dumb as a bag of rocks but he has figured out how to distract the media and the public by creating diversions and he does it really well or should I say "bigly". My fear is that when the Mueller investigation really starts to scare the shit out of him, will he launch a missile at North Korea as a way of distracting the attention away from the Mueller investigation. With Trump any idiotic thing is possible, which is why it is scary.

sick among the pure
01-19-2018, 03:17 AM
will he launch a missile at North Korea as a way of distracting the attention away from the Mueller investigation.

He can't actually do that with no reason. He doesn't have a literal button that just launches them. There's a process, and if there's not damn good reason (like, if they launched first) it's not going to just happen.
I would be much more concerned about him getting NK to attack us as a distraction, than him being able to get nukes launched because he said so.

RhettButler
01-19-2018, 04:20 AM
Here's how it works. It would be pretty easy for Trump to nuke NK:

http://www.businessinsider.com/nuclear-bomb-launch-procedure-us-government-president-2017-11

theimage13
01-19-2018, 05:34 AM
I'm going to be sick. (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-administration-announce-conscience-religious-freedom-division-hhs/story?id=52434480)

Basically, Trump and the GOP are saying that doctors, nurses, and other caregivers can say "screw off, I'm not helping you" based on "religious freedom".

Gay? Nah, I won't operate on you.
Transgender? Enjoy untreated cancer, you wretched sinner.
Alcohol poisoning? I'm going to just let it kill you, because alcohol isn't allowed and you shouldn't have been drinking it.

And that would be legal. The GOP WANTS doctors to be able to deny care to people outside of their white bread hetero bubble. This is some massively fucked up shit.

Swykk
01-19-2018, 05:58 AM
That’s a Pence policy expanded and more heinous. He caused a huge outbreak of HIV here in Indiana (specifically Austin, IN). This is a gross and vile act from a gross and vile administration.

But her emails, indeed.

sweeterthan
01-19-2018, 06:37 AM
How interesting that the NRA is being investigated for Russia money funneling. Especially because they’re supposed to be funded by individual members. Putin is a card carrying member, eh?

theimage13
01-19-2018, 07:17 AM
I'm torn between "of course they fucking knew, they're not stupid" and "I mean, they think Democrats want to deploy the military to steal their guns, so they can't be that bright".

If I were a betting man (and yes, this is IF the allegation bears out), my guess would be that the NRA knew, and the Trump organization was too busy jacking off over piles of gun money to even think about, let alone care about, where the money originated.


If the allegation bears out, it raises unsettling questions:

How much money did Torshin deliver?

Did the NRA understand that this money was coming from Moscow?

Did the Trump campaign?

allegro
01-19-2018, 09:39 AM
How interesting that the NRA is being investigated for Russia money funneling. Especially because they’re supposed to be funded by individual members. Putin is a card carrying member, eh?

Putin and most of Russia HATE unregulated gun-ownership so yeah that’s the smoking gun (motive).

allegro
01-19-2018, 09:41 AM
Here's how it works. It would be pretty easy for Trump to nuke NK:

http://www.businessinsider.com/nuclear-bomb-launch-procedure-us-government-president-2017-11

I’ve linked a few articles, here, disproving that simplicity. The military will not accommodate illegal or immoral acts.

allegro
01-19-2018, 09:50 AM
I'm going to be sick. (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-administration-announce-conscience-religious-freedom-division-hhs/story?id=52434480)

Basically, Trump and the GOP are saying that doctors, nurses, and other caregivers can say "screw off, I'm not helping you" based on "religious freedom".

Gay? Nah, I won't operate on you.
Transgender? Enjoy untreated cancer, you wretched sinner.
Alcohol poisoning? I'm going to just let it kill you, because alcohol isn't allowed and you shouldn't have been drinking it.

And that would be legal. The GOP WANTS doctors to be able to deny care to people outside of their white bread hetero bubble. This is some massively fucked up shit.
That’s the broad extended ACLU definition. The intent is more like what we already have, relating to doctors and abortions or sterilizations; doctors can already opt out of performing abortions (Catholic hospitals don’t even allow them) and their oath to “do no harm” (AMA) is not affected, thus far, anyway. This is an attempt to codify that, in concert with the annual Right to Life march in Washington.

I guarantee that if the law is utilized further than the above, a team of ACLU lawyers will file suit. (Do no harm, can’t violate that, so the AMA would likely weigh in, too.)

Kinda like when some pharmacists refused to dispense the “morning after” drug (which isn’t even an abortifacient); they were told, okay, bye bye, then, go find another job.

allegate
01-19-2018, 09:52 AM
He can't actually do that with no reason. He doesn't have a literal button that just launches them. There's a process, and if there's not damn good reason (like, if they launched first) it's not going to just happen.
I would be much more concerned about him getting NK to attack us as a distraction, than him being able to get nukes launched because he said so.You say that but I swear I recall Clinton launching Tomahawk missiles on the eve of a scandal...oh yeah: http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1998-08-23/news/1998235021_1_lewinsky-matter-clinton-motives

;)

allegro
01-19-2018, 09:58 AM
You say that but I swear I recall Clinton launching Tomahawk missiles on the eve of a scandal...oh yeah: http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1998-08-23/news/1998235021_1_lewinsky-matter-clinton-motives

;)
We are talking NUCLEAR missiles, not plain old missiles.

We haven’t launched nuclear missiles at anybody since the FIRST time we did it (Japan). We’ve seen lots of cold wars, but we have never been anywhere close despite beliefs otherwise.

Sister Midnight
01-19-2018, 11:05 AM
He can't actually do that with no reason. He doesn't have a literal button that just launches them. There's a process, and if there's not damn good reason (like, if they launched first) it's not going to just happen.
I would be much more concerned about him getting NK to attack us as a distraction, than him being able to get nukes launched because he said so.

I understand how the football works, but this administration lives in its own reality and could make up any story to justify a launch. They could claim they saw a plume and afterward say they were mistaken. Kind of like the WMD's the Bush administration claimed Iraq had. The Trump administration has lied about so many things it wouldn't surprise me if Trump would start a war to distract from something else.

Sister Midnight
01-19-2018, 11:08 AM
We are talking NUCLEAR missiles, not plain old missiles.

We haven’t launched nuclear missiles at anybody since the FIRST time we did it (Japan). We’ve seen lots of cold wars, but we have never been anywhere close despite beliefs otherwise.

Anything really fucking stupid, is entirely possible with Trump. That should be his campaign slogan for 2020.

allegate
01-19-2018, 11:56 AM
We are talking NUCLEAR missiles, not plain old missiles.

We haven’t launched nuclear missiles at anybody since the FIRST time we did it (Japan). We’ve seen lots of cold wars, but we have never been anywhere close despite beliefs otherwise.

Fair enough. I was just thinking about missiles and distractions.

Swykk
01-19-2018, 12:10 PM
These motherfuckers are going to shut down the government because they want to blame Democrats, who do not have control of anything, for leverage they desperately need for the election coming up later this year.

I don’t understand how anyone would buy into it knowing Republicans control the House, Senate AND presidency. Trump supporters are pretty fucking dumb but are they THAT dumb?

Sister Midnight
01-19-2018, 01:18 PM
These motherfuckers are going to shut down the government because they want to blame Democrats, who do not have control of anything, for leverage they desperately need for the election coming up later this year.

I don’t understand how anyone would buy into it knowing Republicans control the House, Senate AND presidency. Trump supporters are pretty fucking dumb but are they THAT dumb?

YES!!!!!! Thats how we got this idiot in the first place.

henryeatscereal
01-19-2018, 01:24 PM
Ok so Mexico isn’t paying for the wall (“100%!”)

And we have crazy rough terrain that won’t allow a wall in miles and miles of territory

And we have a big corporate tax cut that will increase the deficit

But Trump is threatening to shut down the government because we aren’t paying for the fake wall

And he Tweeted that Mexicans are smuggling in drugs so we need the giant wall

Except, he didn’t get the memo: http://www.kpbs.org/news/2017/jun/21/us-mexico-drug-tunnels-change-amid-increased-borde/
It's also a fact that Narcos have Drug smuggling submarines (http://www.businessinsider.com/us-coast-guard-seize-narco-submarine-cocaine-pacific-ocean-2016-10), it sounds like fiction, but it's a fact!

theimage13
01-19-2018, 02:05 PM
These motherfuckers are going to shut down the government because they want to blame Democrats, who do not have control of anything, for leverage they desperately need for the election coming up later this year.

I don’t understand how anyone would buy into it knowing Republicans control the House, Senate AND presidency. Trump supporters are pretty fucking dumb but are they THAT dumb?

Because not everything needs a simple majority to pass, so yes, Democrats could be considered responsible for a shutdown if they were to vote along party lines. (The reality is that BOTH parties should be held responsible for failing to work together and come up with a bill that at least 60 of them are willing to vote yes on, but that's not nearly as sexy a headline as ONE PARTY RESPONSIBLE FOR SHUTTING DOWN THE GOVERNMENT!")


Republicans have majorities in both chambers of Congress, but they do not have the Senate “super majority” necessary to rally the 60 votes needed for major legislation. Even if every GOP senator were to support a spending bill, it could not pass without the support of at least nine Democrats.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/with-dreamers-in-the-balance-democrats-ponder-whether-to-force-a-shutdown/2018/01/10/2e4dd3f0-f54a-11e7-b34a-b85626af34ef_story.html?utm_term=.e95e05bb553d

theimage13
01-19-2018, 02:11 PM
I understand how the football works, but this administration lives in its own reality and could make up any story to justify a launch. They could claim they saw a plume and afterward say they were mistaken. Kind of like the WMD's the Bush administration claimed Iraq had. The Trump administration has lied about so many things it wouldn't surprise me if Trump would start a war to distract from something else.

"This administration" is too much of a blanket statement though. There are people far, far smarter than Trump who are responsible for gathering military intel in the first place, and if someone came up and said "we need to fire a nuke because X," the intelligence guys would go "uh...that's not real; you're not firing those."

The scenario that scares me is that Trump does something stupid enough to provoke another country to launch first, at which point all bets are off and the military's top officials would be more inclined to advise a nuclear retaliation. I don't believe for a second that he would strike first. He may be amazing at shooting his mouth off, but I think someone would put him in his place if he tried to initiate a preemptive nuclear attack.

Swykk
01-19-2018, 02:16 PM
Because not everything needs a simple majority to pass, so yes, Democrats could be considered responsible for a shutdown if they were to vote along party lines. (The reality is that BOTH parties should be held responsible for failing to work together and come up with a bill that at least 60 of them are willing to vote yes on, but that's not nearly as sexy a headline as ONE PARTY RESPONSIBLE FOR SHUTTING DOWN THE GOVERNMENT!")



https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/with-dreamers-in-the-balance-democrats-ponder-whether-to-force-a-shutdown/2018/01/10/2e4dd3f0-f54a-11e7-b34a-b85626af34ef_story.html?utm_term=.e95e05bb553d

Then these assclowns should write better bills. Apparently there was one that was allegedly agreed upon and Dump wouldn’t sign it. He has tweeted about wanting a shut down before.

Sister Midnight
01-19-2018, 02:22 PM
"This administration" is too much of a blanket statement though. There are people far, far smarter than Trump who are responsible for gathering military intel in the first place, and if someone came up and said "we need to fire a nuke because X," the intelligence guys would go "uh...that's not real; you're not firing those."

The scenario that scares me is that Trump does something stupid enough to provoke another country to launch first, at which point all bets are off and the military's top officials would be more inclined to advise a nuclear retaliation. I don't believe for a second that he would strike first. He may be amazing at shooting his mouth off, but I think someone would put him in his place if he tried to initiate a preemptive nuclear attack.

The president doesn't need congress to launch a nuclear weapon for the simple reason there would not be enough time for retaliation if one were launched at us. Once the codes in the football have be activated it then goes through a chain of command. If anybody were to challenge the request anywhere along that chain, they would be told you don't not have the security clearance to make that decision and I need you to follow through on your order. This is a situation that could happen. I know it is unthinkable now, but before 9/11 that was unthinkable. We have a seriously deranged President who believes his own lies, who is a pathological liar, who is prone to temper tantrums, and is vile narcissist and a borderline dictator. The recipe for disaster is already there.

Louie_Cypher
01-19-2018, 04:16 PM
jack hole's approval rating is @ 23% I don't understand why the dem's don't stand up to this fool which is why they no longer get my support.
-Louie

Sister Midnight
01-19-2018, 04:21 PM
jack hole's approval rating is @ 23% I don't understand why the dem's don't stand up to this fool which is why they no longer get my support.
-Louie

I think you will see a completely different Democratic party once they get the majority in November. They will start with impeachment proceedings immediately once they are sworn in. That is when things will get truly scary because when Trump feels threatened he gets very irrational and you can't gauge what his reactions will be. He usually makes questionable bombastic decisions without considering the consequences.

RhettButler
01-19-2018, 05:40 PM
I’ve linked a few articles, here, disproving that simplicity. The military will not accommodate illegal or immoral acts.Like the entire Vietnam War?

allegro
01-19-2018, 08:28 PM
Like the entire Vietnam War?

Well technically that was during our long LET’S STOP ALL THE COMMUNISTS OMG!!! phase, it started in 1955. All war can be considered immoral, really.

But we are talking about what GENERALS would consider illegal and immoral, not us. Their bar is not at the same level as ours.

sick among the pure
01-19-2018, 09:42 PM
Sounds like the Republicans aren't even all voting to keep the government running. I'm sure people will still blame the Dems, though.

Speaking of the people who will regurgitate Fox/Trump news and blame the dems...
My retired dad, the wonderfull assswhipe he is, told my mom this when she got home today from a hard day at work:
"Well my 401k is doing great thanks to Trump but now I won't be getting my Social Security check because of the Shumer Shutdown. That's what they're calling it, 'The Shumer Shutdown'. Chuck Shumer is making sure the government shuts down tonight so I won't get my check."
My mother is a saint, dealing with this shit.

allegro
01-19-2018, 09:49 PM
It will not affect Social Security at all.

allegro
01-19-2018, 09:58 PM
Schumer says Trump was all for a deal, then Nazi Miller and Tom Cotton (immigrant-haters) came in and shut down any Agreement.

If this is ANYBODY’S fault, it’s Miller’s.

Although a whole bunch of Republicans refused to vote yes.

See this: https://thinkprogress.org/republican-senator-blames-shutdown-on-trump-cotton-miller-fde6ab611b6c/


“I’m not going to continue this game with DACA recipients’ lives,” [Republican Senator Lindsey] Graham explained. “A lot of people on my side say ‘What’s the urgency?’ Well, put yourself in their shoes. You’re a teacher somewhere, you don’t know if March the 5th you’ll be kicked out of the country you call home. This idea that we’ve got plenty of time — I don’t like that. If you’re one these recipients you feel like we should have done this yesterday. And 80 percent of the American people are actually with us.”

sick among the pure
01-19-2018, 10:21 PM
It will not affect Social Security at all.

Apparently Fox told him that he won't be getting his SS check if the government shuts down because Democrats hate him or something. I really wish I could just block that channel on all their tvs but he'd throw a fit that would make Trump look calm.

Sister Midnight
01-20-2018, 12:43 AM
It is so fitting that on the anniversary of the Trump inauguration that the government is shut down.

sweeterthan
01-20-2018, 12:56 PM
A few conservatives on my FB timeline blaming the democrats. Saying they do t care about the soldiers getting paid. Is this something they’re pushing on Fox News? How do you not blame republicans? They’re in charge right now. [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BRoswell
01-20-2018, 01:18 PM
Saying they do t care about the soldiers getting paid.

It's funny, because the Democrats tried to pass a bill that would allow them to get paid during the shutdown. I'll give you a hint who said no to that: it wasn't the Democrats.

allegro
01-20-2018, 02:22 PM
A few conservatives on my FB timeline blaming the democrats. Saying they do t care about the soldiers getting paid. Is this something they’re pushing on Fox News? How do you not blame republicans? They’re in charge right now. [emoji23]


Re "essential" Federal employees and the media assertion that they (e.g. the Military or ATC) are not getting paid: Their pay is based on the PRIOR pay period, either two-weeks or even an estimate based on the prior month. So it won't be until / if this shut-down goes into February that we may start seeing no paychecks being issued. HOWEVER, these employees (in that event) WILL get back-pay after the shutdown is over. See the below re military pay. I think any shutdown is stupid, these people in Congress should have had this wrapped up months ago. If THEIR pay was held back, you bet your ass they'd be working on something well in advance.

https://www.military.com/paycheck-chronicles/2013/11/22/military-pay-is-calculated-monthl

Re how this didn’t pass with a Republican-majority Congress:

The House passed a bill, then it was sent to the Senate. The Senate requires 60 votes to pass. They didn’t have anywhere near that many Yes votes on the bill on the table.

Right now, there are 49 Democrats and 51 Republican Senators. There are not 60 Republicans in the Senate. Last night, they voted on a “CR” (continuing resolution) which extends the deadline.

5 Democrats voted Yes, and 4 Republicans votes No (60 Yes votes required, McCain is still out due to cancer treatments).

sweeterthan
01-20-2018, 03:36 PM
Re "essential" Federal employees and the media assertion that they (e.g. the Military or ATC) are not getting paid: Their pay is based on the PRIOR pay period, either two-weeks or even an estimate based on the prior month. So it won't be until / if this shut-down goes into February that we may start seeing no paychecks being issued. HOWEVER, these employees (in that event) WILL get back-pay after the shutdown is over. See the below re military pay. I think any shutdown is stupid, these people in Congress should have had this wrapped up months ago. If THEIR pay was held back, you bet your ass they'd be working on something well in advance.

https://www.military.com/paycheck-chronicles/2013/11/22/military-pay-is-calculated-monthl

Re how this didn’t pass with a Republican-majority Congress:

The House passed a bill, then it was sent to the Senate. The Senate requires 60 votes to pass. They didn’t have anywhere near that many Yes votes on the bill on the table.

Right now, there are 49 Democrats and 51 Republican Senators. There are not 60 Republicans in the Senate. Last night, they voted on a “CR” (continuing resolution) which extends the deadline.

5 Democrats voted Yes, and 4 Republicans votes No (60 Yes votes required, McCain is still out due to cancer treatments).

So more partisan bullshit, eh? I’m reading on twitter some are calling it Trumpshutdown and some are calling it schumershutdown. We should totally revoke their pay til they work it out but they’d never give us that power.

theimage13
01-20-2018, 03:45 PM
It is so fitting that on the anniversary of the Trump inauguration that the government is shut down.


https://s.faketrumptweet.com/jcnvsdmm_1xgjwzp_k7yuk4.png (https://faketrumptweet.com/fake-tweet/jcnvsdmm_1xgjwzp_k7yuk4)

(full disclosure: yes, this is satirical)

Sister Midnight
01-20-2018, 04:31 PM
Chuck Schumer said "negotiating with Trump was like negotiating with Jell-O" although it is a weird thing to say images of Bill Cosby come to mind. Somebody on CNN last night referred to Sarah Huckabee Sanders as Sarah Huckabee Colonel Sanders and everybody is waiting for the meteor to hit the earth on February 4th because if Obama had done his job we wouldn't have to be worrying about this meteor now.

I have enjoyed the signs at the womens march......https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.266860290.4026/flat,800x800,070,f.u3.jpg

https://d1x7zurbps6occ.cloudfront.net/product/xlarge/614003-172650.jpg

and may favorite

https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.262990822.1052/flat,800x800,075,f.u1.jpg

thevoid99
01-20-2018, 05:01 PM
This is my favorite picture:

https://cdn3.f-cdn.com/contestentries/1058111/9957601/59530f71ea702_thumb900.jpg

allegro
01-20-2018, 07:35 PM
I’ve been watching MSNBC since 10 PM yesterday.

The Republicans are saying that the 2013 shutdown was “DIFFERENT” because they were protesting Obamacare.

But now the Democrats have grown a spine, knowing that the Republicans just aren’t trustworthy and a mere “we’ll get to DACA later” isn’t good enough because Republicans can easily change their minds and Dems have no leverage.

FUCK REPUBLICANS.

We had SIX shutdowns because of Reagan.

We had a MONTH-LONG shutdown due to Republicans during Clinton.

We’ve had EIGHTEEN shutdowns.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/19/16905584/government-shutdown-history-clinton-obama-explained

Shitty Steve Miller wants a nation state of nice white select Europeans and he and his ilk want to reduce LEGAL IMMIGRATION BY OVER FORTY PERCENT!!! Because the American birth rate has totally tanked and they don’t want a bunch of black or brown people having babies and threatening white superiority.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-02/trump-endorses-bill-to-award-immigrant-visas-based-on-merit

allegro
01-20-2018, 08:15 PM
That being said, I don’t think Dick Durbin outing Trump’s shithole statement was useful at that particular time. He should have held that trump card (lol) until later.

You get more with honey than with vinegar, and honey in this case = blowing smoke up Trump’s ass. Once you get what you want, all bets are off.

This President is spineless, he wants to please too many wrong people (the Stupid Steve Miller ones blowing smoke up his ass). Narcissistic people love being loved, to a fault.

thevoid99
01-20-2018, 08:19 PM
Holy shit!!!!!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUB3gxeWkAAMYC6.jpg:large

Louie_Cypher
01-20-2018, 08:30 PM
trump is no deal maker no better than pen Gillette he's a shilling carny. although I have more respect for pen, art of the deal was nothing more than a grandstanding exercise, in narcissism. spank me with a fobes magazine.
-Louie

Sister Midnight
01-20-2018, 11:20 PM
How will Trump out top himself......

Year 1 Anniversary = Government Shutdown

Year 2 Anniversary = Trump bites the head off a bald eagle

Year 3 Anniversary = Ivanka becomes first lady

Year 4 Anniversary = Federal prison

imail724
01-21-2018, 08:08 AM
Chuck Schumer said "negotiating with Trump was like negotiating with Jell-O" although it is a weird thing to say images of Bill Cosby come to mind. Somebody on CNN last night referred to Sarah Huckabee Sanders as Sarah Huckabee Colonel Sanders and everybody is waiting for the meteor to hit the earth on February 4th because if Obama had done his job we wouldn't have to be worrying about this meteor now.

I have enjoyed the signs at the womens march......https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.266860290.4026/flat,800x800,070,f.u3.jpg

https://d1x7zurbps6occ.cloudfront.net/product/xlarge/614003-172650.jpg

and may favorite

https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.262990822.1052/flat,800x800,075,f.u1.jpgI like this shirt
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180121/ee782c5927a92cb40dfb82517ea18c21.jpg

theimage13
01-21-2018, 08:24 AM
I know it's off topic, but I really want that Humanade shirt. I almost spit my coffee out at that.

theimage13
01-21-2018, 08:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx-tebD7uws

I wish, I wish, I WISH this was satire. It's not. This is literally the voicemail greeting that you get when calling the White House comment line.


Unfortunately, we cannot answer your call today because congressional Democrats are holding government funding, including funding for our troops and other national security priorities, hostage to an unrelated immigration debate. Due to this obstruction, the government is shut down

A toddler. A fucking toddler is in charge of the country.

sweeterthan
01-21-2018, 09:04 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx-tebD7uws

I wish, I wish, I WISH this was satire. It's not. This is literally the voicemail greeting that you get when calling the White House comment line.



A toddler. A fucking toddler is in charge of the country.

Wow, they’re really running with the “blame the democrats” plan.

Jinsai
01-21-2018, 11:28 AM
And, the big problem is, a lot of dumbasses are going to buy the angle

allegro
01-21-2018, 01:10 PM
And, the big problem is, a lot of dumbasses are going to buy the angle

Really, who cares? Mick Mulvaney, who was one of the guys who CAUSED the 2013 shutdown, says it's "kind of cool" (http://ktla.com/2018/01/20/white-house-budget-director-kind-of-cool-to-be-in-charge-of-government-shutdown/) be the guy who shuts down the government. After the Republicans shut down the government in 2013 (and the SEVENTEEN OTHER TIMES they shut down the government), they suffered ZERO backlash.

So, the Democrats are finally playing by the same rules. Fuck it.

Sister Midnight
01-21-2018, 01:15 PM
Really, who cares? Mick Mulvaney, who was one of the guys who CAUSED the 2013 shutdown, says it's "kind of cool" (http://ktla.com/2018/01/20/white-house-budget-director-kind-of-cool-to-be-in-charge-of-government-shutdown/) be the guy who shuts down the government. After the Republicans shut down the government in 2013 (and the SEVENTEEN OTHER TIMES they shut down the government), they suffered ZERO backlash.

So, the Democrats are finally playing by the same rules. Fuck it.

Even though I am a liberal sometimes I wish the Democrats would grow a pair and stand up to these lying thieving Republicans and play as dirty as the republicans do. I just hope the blue wave backlash is enough to split the republican party in two.

sick among the pure
01-21-2018, 01:34 PM
01-19-2018, 10:42 PM
01-19-2018, 10:42 PM


Sounds like the Republicans aren't even all voting to keep the government running. I'm sure people will still blame the Dems, though.


YEP.
Fuckin yep.

allegro
01-21-2018, 01:58 PM
And, the big problem is, a lot of dumbasses are going to buy the angle

The Senate NEEDS 60 votes to pass any bill related to the budget and the debt ceiling. There are only 51 Republicans, so unless they give the Dems what they want in the Senate, they will ALWAYS be short enough votes in the Senate to win these types of bills.

So, yeah, the Senate Democrats ARE using DACA as a bargaining chip. But several Republicans also back DACA.

I’m just pleased that this RUINED Trump’s Mar-a-Lago soiree lol lol lol

Sister Midnight
01-21-2018, 02:07 PM
allegro weren't there four republican senators that voted "no" for the continuing resolution? I know one of the senators was Arizona senator Jeff Flake, do you know who the other three are? I'm not sure if they are including John McCain in that because he couldn't vote due to his cancer therapy. Anyways the point is the republicans didn't get all 51 from their own party.

allegro
01-21-2018, 02:49 PM
allegro weren't there four republican senators that voted "no" for the continuing resolution? I know one of the senators was Arizona senator Jeff Flake, do you know who the other three are? I'm not sure if they are including John McCain in that because he couldn't vote due to his cancer therapy. Anyways the point is the republicans didn't get all 51 from their own party.

That wasn’t for an actual final bill, though: it was for a short-term bill to extend the time (“cr” or continuing resolution).

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/21/end-government-shutdown-trump-suggests-senate-use-nuclear-option/1051818001/

Many Dems and some Republicans don’t want that because DACA is running out of time (Trump-imposed deadline in February); a few Republicans don’t want that because they don’t like “kicking the can.”

Hardline Republicans want to bundle DACA with laws to limit “chain” immigration (if you’re already here, then bring your relatives here) they say to avoid another 700,000 DACA kids ten years from now, plus Trump wants that wall.


Here’s the cr vote count:

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/20/politics/senate-vote-government-shutdown/index.html

Louie_Cypher
01-21-2018, 04:13 PM
Really, who cares? Mick Mulvaney, who was one of the guys who CAUSED the 2013 shutdown, says it's "kind of cool" (http://ktla.com/2018/01/20/white-house-budget-director-kind-of-cool-to-be-in-charge-of-government-shutdown/) be the guy who shuts down the government. After the Republicans shut down the government in 2013 (and the SEVENTEEN OTHER TIMES they shut down the government), they suffered ZERO backlash.

So, the Democrats are finally playing by the same rules. Fuck it. this is true there are zero consequences for anyone congress still gets their checks so... what. the owners of our so called democracy already got what they wanted,tax cuts! markets barely moved on Friday. dreamers immigration. nope for the !% only means they might have find a new gardener or nanny. to see how areal leader governs watch Bernie's Facebook town hall on the 23rd. untill then continue to bow down to your rich masters suckers,
-Louie

aggroculture
01-21-2018, 11:10 PM
article about Trump fatigue: https://jezebel.com/chaos-weary-1822129320
I haven't read it...because I have Trump fatigue... but I will... soon.

elevenism
01-22-2018, 06:59 AM
Hey did everybody see this?
At an anti abortion rally, trump lamented the fact that "right now, a number of state laws allow a baby to be born from his or her mother's womb in the ninth month. It's wrong. It has to stop."
http://people.com/politics/trump-anti-abortion-speech-babies-born-ninth-month/

allegro
01-22-2018, 09:39 AM
Hey did everybody see this?
At an anti abortion rally, trump lamented the fact that "right now, a number of state laws allow a baby to be born from his or her mother's womb in the ninth month. It's wrong. It has to stop."
http://people.com/politics/trump-anti-abortion-speech-babies-born-ninth-month/

Yes, my house has been dying laughing over this. Classic dumbass Trump lol

sweeterthan
01-22-2018, 10:42 AM
Hey did everybody see this?
At an anti abortion rally, trump lamented the fact that "right now, a number of state laws allow a baby to be born from his or her mother's womb in the ninth month. It's wrong. It has to stop."
http://people.com/politics/trump-anti-abortion-speech-babies-born-ninth-month/

I saw it. Clearly he misspoke. Surely he understands and knows about gestation. It’s a basic thing we all learn at some point. [emoji849]


Yes, my house has been dying laughing over this. Classic dumbass Trump lol
I laughed at him too. it is hilarious to a certain extent but him and his GOP buddies think things like a woman won't get pregnant from rape. They legislate our bodies with no comprehension of how it works. It's terrifying and sad. People do not get the care they need because of these assholes.

eskimo
01-22-2018, 12:14 PM
article about Trump fatigue: https://jezebel.com/chaos-weary-1822129320
I haven't read it...because I have Trump fatigue... but I will... soon.

This really resonated with me.

And not just about Trump explicitly, but about the kind of injustices that he champions as well. Sorry, this is going off-track, but I really like the article.

I lead a cub group, and there are 5 of us who are leaders. 1 has been leading this group since I was a kid, and he means well, but he's so old school that whenever he types something up we have to proofread it because he still only refers to the kids as boys frequently and we don't want the girls in our troop to feel excluded. Another has posted about "those transgendered people" on her facebook and complains that she can't go running because of migrant workers in our small town. A beaver leader was sharing "proud boys" memes on facebook. Our groups treasurer took an article about a pharmacy in our small town by a mid-30s Caucasian male as an opportunity to rant against immigration and urban sprawl. I was sitting with another cub leader, his teenage brother and two long-time scout leaders in the summer and the other cub leader was explicitly condemning homosexuality to his younger brother. And last night the two new leaders started having a conversation about how they believe that Chinese people are liars.

These are the people who are leading groups of children....and they're not even slightly embarrassed about this, I feel like I'm the only one in the group who has a problem with any of this. And it's exhausting, and it makes it feel normal, because I can't fight it as frequently as it occurs.

allegro
01-22-2018, 01:05 PM
I saw it. Clearly he misspoke. Surely he understands and knows about gestation. It’s a basic thing we all learn at some point. [emoji849]
I laughed at him too. it is hilarious to a certain extent but him and his GOP buddies think things like a woman won't get pregnant from rape. They legislate our bodies with no comprehension of how it works. It's terrifying and sad. People do not get the care they need because of these assholes.

re Trump's malapropism: He obviously intended to speak about late-term abortion or partial birth abortion in the 9th month, which CAN be either banned or highly-regulated, in accordance with Roe v. Wade as well as the Casey decision, but abortions in the 9th month are not only rare, there's only ONE STATE that allows them and only then if there is an extreme fetal anomaly. It's a unicorn, it just doesn't happen.

The malapropism is that he said that "births" shouldn't happen in the 9th month, which implies some kind of weird induced labor law in the 8th month. You can see people behind him smirking, like "dude, wtf are you talking about?"

Of course, the really funny thing is the misconception that babies marinate in their mother's womb for 9 months but the true full term is 40 weeks, which is 10 months, but the first 2 weeks aren't counted as "pregnancy." Which is beside the point, LOL.

elevenism
01-22-2018, 02:10 PM
re Trump's malapropism: He obviously intended to speak about late-term abortion or partial birth abortion in the 9th month, which CAN be either banned or highly-regulated, in accordance with Roe v. Wade as well as the Casey decision, but abortions in the 9th month are not only rare, there's only ONE STATE that allows them and only then if there is an extreme fetal anomaly. It's a unicorn, it just doesn't happen.

Right! That's what I was thinking and I looked it up, and sure enough, it just doesn't happen.

So what trump MEANT to say was a fucking lie.
It seems like he said something similar in one of the presidential debates.

I think that trump says some of these things because he isn't very bright, but more and more, I'm thinking that a lot of his statements are carefully crafted, full on lies.

So, for instance, he claims that 9th month abortions are common and furthermore, that democrats are all for it and he's going to stop it.
And the ignorant section of his base doesn't bother to check fact check him, and now it's in the public consciousness. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. The damage is done.I

I hate to admit it but it's pretty fucking clever. Add to that his demonizing of the media, and you have a situation wherein, when the truth is presented, he just says it's "fake."

allegro
01-22-2018, 02:28 PM
Yup, that's all exactly correct. The pro-life movement likes to speak to people who are ignorant of facts and operate only from emotions and lack of logic. The photos of dead babies dumped in alleys is a fallacy. Most states regulate abortion after the 1st trimester, which is fully allowed per Roe and Casey. Last trimester abortions are rare, and ... worse yet ... these hypocrites refuse to fund birth control or sex education and most of them are also against sterilization. They have this backward idea that a woman's primary job is being the daughter of Eve, go forth and multiply. No.matter.what.

These people are liars, hypocrites, AND they seemingly have ZERO recollection or knowledge of what this country was like before Roe. Women are going to have abortions, they've been getting abortions since the days before Christ. You aren't going to stop it. Women died conducting self-abortions or going to back-alley butcher doctors. Meanwhile, wealthy women simply took a "vacation" in another country and their "problem" went away. Roe wasn't about abortion so much as it was the right to equal and private decisions regarding their own healthcare. If you take this away, you won't take away abortion. Ever.

But most countries with birth control and sex and STI educations DO have pretty low abortion rates.

Note that Trump USED to be vocally pro choice. But, Melania is allegedly a devout Catholic. AND, Trump is deliberately targeting a certain base.

sweeterthan
01-23-2018, 12:55 PM
Oh to be a fly on the wall in the jeff sessions questioning. Surely he spilled the beans.