Trump 2017: Year Zero

[Khrz]

Trump said "When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice."

Soooooooooo. Someone tell him about Germany's history. Trump is such a piece of shit.

Well, there's patriotism and nationalism. I've always been amazed and dumbfounded by how shamelessly patriotic the average US citizen can be, that doesn't mean I ever saw you as a fundamentally nationalistic country.

Problem is, when Trump talks about it, he's talking about his own brand of Patriotism (©), the one he's been pushing all this time, which is really Crystal Nationalism.


They aren't anarchists.

Oh, now we're nitpicking ? So, is The_Left_LULZ constituted of several politically diverse philosophies, or is it still a fat big bag of Clinton sycophants ? I'm getting confused here. Is gatekeeping reserved for the cyber 1337 @anarchists ? Do we get a t-shirt ?

[Mantra]

its literally not possible to be an anarchist if you are a disaffected authoritarian. They are out there "protesting" after the establishment candidate lost for fucks sake.

I guarantee none of those Black Bloc anarchists are out there for Hillary's sake. They hate her.

[slave2thewage]

What's the deal with this "national day of patriotism" Trump issued an order for yesterday? It sounds vaguely ominous, but there's not much being said about it.

[Khrz]

What's the deal with this "national day of patriotism" Trump issued an order for yesterday? It sounds vaguely ominous, but there's not much being said about it.

July 4th?

[Mantra]

"black bloc anarchist" isnt a thing. Black bloc is just a style of protest. Yes, frequently those using black bloc will claim to be anarchist in motivation but I'm not seeing it right now. The majority who seem to be out there are antif (who are predominantly communist these days). Some of them are even flying their red to demonstrate it. Their anti-capitalist targeting further demonstrates this.
We could speculate all we want about which brand of radicalism these particular individuals happen to fall under, but ultimately, the point still stands that none of these people are Hillary/establishment supporters as you were trying to imply.

[BRoswell]

Speaking of photos, Trump's press secretary just tried to Jedi mind trick everyone into thinking that the inauguration was the most attended one in history, and that any photos that show otherwise were doctored to look that way.

I know, I know...let's just see how it goes, right?

[allegro]

Sean Spicer says We're going to hold the media accountable. (https://twitter.com/robpulsenews/status/822940445038804992)

What the fuck, are we North Korea now?

[allegro]

I know, I know...let's just see how it goes, right?

He can't be impeached until he DOES something impeachable. He probably will be impeached, because he's a cross between Nixon and Reagan. He's gonna use his power too much, and the ACLU is all over every single thing he does, already. They've already filed FOIA requests and a lawsuit.

[allegro]

Oh *now* the ACLU is cool again?

I re-joined about 6 months ago and I'm on the monthly plan plus I gave them $200 bucks and I've signed a boatload of their petitions and forwarded them. (You know of course that I was a card-carrying member for over 20 years until I got pissed at them here in Illinois.)

Did the WH web site story originate on WaPo?

[botley]

He can't be impeached until he DOES something impeachable.
Hey. Hi. Over here (https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-promised-to-resign-from-his-companies-but-no-record-hes-done-so)

[Sarah K]

What is with the dislike of the ACLU? I missed that one.

[allegro]

What is with the dislike of the ACLU? I missed that one.

DigitalChaos is jabbing at me because I was pissed at them and quite for a long time because they were against metal detectors in schools and revenge porn laws in Illinois.

Otherwise there is no dislike that I know of.

botley, I provided links earlier to the US Code which provides that the President, Vice President and Congress are exempt from conflict of interest. Which is nuts but it is what it is.

https://www.google.com/amp/lawnewz.com/high-profile/trump-is-right-conflict-of-interest-rules-dont-apply-to-him/amp/?client=safari

Now, as a matter of ETHICS, of saying he did one thing and then didn't; he wasn't under oath and he relied on legal counsel so that would be on his legal counsel. Impeachment will more likely be related to a Constitutional crisis, abusive of power like Nixon.

[allegro]

Nice. I actually skipped my renewal last year just cause their "all civil rights except guns" thing pissed me off more than usual. I may end up renewing soon but the EFF has been more deserving.

Point of origin. I honestly don't know precisely. WaPo was pushing the story very hard though. They were also popping up as one of the top sites covering it.
I've been focusing on the ACLU, the AARP, and organizations related to Medicaid, Medicare, healthcare and Social Security.

[allegro]

Ya. I'm just being a shithead to allegro.

My annoyance with ACLU is that their stance on Heller has been "under review" since 2008. 9 years of not committing to a stance is bullshit. Just suck it up and pick. I don't even care what it is.
They see both sides. State's rights as well as 2nd Amendment rights. It's not really an ACLU type important issue, not a civil liberty that's been infringed. But PLEASE not drift this here.

[Mantra]

There's probably gonna be a lot of bipartisan support for impeachment, even from assholes like Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell, and I'm sure Trump will offer up plenty of paths to pursue it, so I suspect that impeachment is basically inevitable...but who knows.

[Sarah K]

Not sure why everyone is wishing and hoping for impeachment. Pence is 4903720842730923750492389 times worse.

[slave2thewage]

Not sure why everyone is wishing and hoping for impeachment. Pence is 4903720842730923750492389 times worse.
I was hoping the ceiling would collapse at the inauguration ball and take them all out.

[onthewall2983]

If Trump is impeached in the first four years, he will find a way to take Pence with him, or make damn sure he isn't elected in 2020.

[onthewall2983]

The views of the marches around the world are nothing less than awe-inspiring to see.

[Sarah K]

LMFAOOOO. SNL is going to be incredible. That does not seem real at alllll. He's so mad.

[Mantra]

Not sure why everyone is wishing and hoping for impeachment. Pence is 4903720842730923750492389 times worse.
Yeah, I get where you're coming from and I used to feel this way 100%, but now I go back and forth on this.

Pence is an undeniable creep and I fucking hate him, but I do wonder whether a Pence presidency would at least feel less like some oppressive North Korean regime is coming to power. Pretty much all Republicans are shit, but Trump is just on another level. He and his staff say things that are legitimately disconcerting. So I just wonder whether Pence might dial it down a bit and at least be more like Bush. Then again, maybe that's just wishful thinking.

Christ, I never thought I'd find myself pining for the days of Bush, but...that's the state of American conservatism for you.

[marodi]

Canadians were denied entry to the US yesterday and today:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-inauguration-canada-idUSKBN1542UD

Meanwhile, Justin Trudeau is all Kumbaya about it.

[BRoswell]

Without a path from protest to power, the Women's March will end up like Occupy (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/19/womens-march-washington-occupy-protest)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/19/womens-march-washington-occupy-protest

That's all I can think, sadly. Not to shit on everyone's parade (literally) but i'm always getting my hopes destroyed by these bursts of left-leaning surges of energy that fizzle out. Occupy, DNC Primaries corruption, Electoral College, etc. I don't want another 8 years of protest that has no impact. You could have every citizen out in the streets right now, but it means nothing if they just go back home and feel like they just accomplished something of value, and then it ends there. Call me when people are doing more than standing in the street.

The difference is that we're already seeing what effect this has on Trump. The guy had his press secretary come out to refute the size of the crowd at his inauguration in a futile attempt to undercut what was happening today. Yes, it's going to take a lot more than large marches to get things done, but you have to start somewhere, and I think many people in this country (and around the world) have sent a pretty clear message today.

[sick among the pure]

"You don't know how few people there were because we didn't count. There were totally a lot of people. HUGE crowd. The best crowd. Also, there will be no counting at the marches tomorrow, so don't bother trying to compare numbers, because no numbers will exist, ever. Our numbers are better." is too long for Twitter, so he had to have this guy say this shit.

[onthewall2983]

Word's coming out that even Trump thought Spicer went a little too far.

[BRoswell]

Not to mention the fact that a Press Sec talking about the size of inauguration crowds has nothing to do with protests that happened a day later. People were talking about it well before the protests.

Of course people were talking about it before, but if you don't think the protests had anything to do with the shitshow that the press secretary put on this evening, then you should think again. Trump and Co. could have ignored all the talk about the turnout at the inauguration, but I'm sure the amount of people protesting got their blood boiling, so they felt that they had to make a lie...er, statement...to try to undercut what was going on, which clearly didn't work.

And I have no idea if it will go down in history along with the marches, but I do know it will probably be remembered as one of the funniest, most pathetic things to ever happen in politics...at least until the next Trump blunder.

[Jinsai]

I'ts just day one... I'm just kinda tired of hearing it

Yep, it's only day one. Imagine how tired you're going to be of it in three or four years. You're not even addressing the complaints about the things he's done prior to day one.

but, like you said, it's only day one, (http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/20/the-white-house-websites-page-on-climate-change-just-disappeared.html) and already the priorities are rolling out. The White House website's page on climate change disappeared immediately after he was sworn in. Hey though, that shouldn't come as a surprise, (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-energy-nationalparks-idUSKBN14V1EP) though right? He will try to boost the economy at the expense of all that hippy dippy environmentalism, and his supporters will love him for it. He'll bribe companies with multi-million dollar incentives so that they won't export jobs, and people will call him a champion for the working man. He'll do maybe a third of what he promised, and it will fuck this country (and its people) up beyond repair...

and then his supporters will blame Obama for that part.

[icklekitty]

Racism and sexism. Cool story.


You might want to begin with learning the difference between gender and sexuality.

[Mantra]

The difference is that we're already seeing what effect this has on Trump. The guy had his press secretary come out to refute the size of the crowd at his inauguration in a futile attempt to undercut what was happening today. Yes, it's going to take a lot more than large marches to get things done, but you have to start somewhere, and I think many people in this country (and around the world) have sent a pretty clear message today.

I totally agree that the message of the day was inspiring and powerful. But still, the article Digital Chaos posted says a lot of really important things. Sending a message is a great starting place, and it's awesome to have all this energy. So now we have to BUILD something with that energy. This part of the article hit the nail on the head: "May the angry women return home the day after the march to lead us toward a women-led hybrid movement-party in every state that is disciplined enough to govern, militantly local and single-mindedly devoted to actualizing a force capable of seizing control of city councils and mayorships during midterm elections across America in preparation for an electoral coup against the presidency in 2020."

I especially love the part about being "militantly local." We need that for the midterms. As far as I'm concerned, this is the most crucial thing that everyone needs to be focused on. We need to fucking slaughter the Republicans in the midterms. They have way too much unchecked power at a time when the oval office is held by an ego-tripping moron who literally appears to be showing signs of dementia. We NEED to take back congress or we're FUCKED. If we can't win the midterms, then why bother? That's our best hope. That's the ticket that gives us a real fighting chance of stopping Trump's nonsense. Nothing else matters. I want to see all the marches and protests focused on transforming the energy of this moment into electoral action that produces tangible results.

[onthewall2983]

I heard 1 in 100 Americans had protested yesterday.

[Deepvoid]

Speaking of photos, Trump's press secretary just tried to Jedi mind trick everyone into thinking that the inauguration was the most attended one in history, and that any photos that show otherwise were doctored to look that way.

I know, I know...let's just see how it goes, right?

RedState posted this article debunking everything that was said by Spicer.

http://www.redstate.com/patterico/2017/01/21/sean-spicers-rant-inauguration-crowds-packed-falsehoods/

The amazing thing is that he said a bunch of lies. Call the media liars and did not take any questions from the press.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that how totalitarian regimes work?

See this as well, when the Trump admin ordered the National Park twitter account to stop tweeting after posting the crowd size comparison picture.

http://www.avclub.com/article/national-parks-service-ordered-shut-down-twitter-a-248843

[Jinsai]

with regards to relinquishing control of the entirety of his business interests, Trump and his associates "are not doing what they said they would do... and even that was completely inadequate." (https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-promised-to-resign-from-his-companies-but-no-record-hes-done-so)

[Deepvoid]

I need to retract my previous statement about Spicer.

Konway just told Chuck Todd that Spicer did not lie but said "alternative facts".

You guys are fucked. Bigly.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSrEEDQgFc8

[aggroculture]

"Utter a falsehood"? How about "LIE"? Spicer straight up lied.

Until we call a spade a spade we keep letting them win.

[Mantra]

How is Trump still tweeting? Wasn't the Secret Service was supposed to take away his phone?

[Khrz]

How is Trump still tweeting? Wasn't the Secret Service was supposed to take away his phone?

Ahahahaha yeah right :D
From his cold, dead hands!

[onthewall2983]

You don't need a phone to Tweet.

[Mantra]

You don't need a phone to Tweet.

Oh right. Lol. I guess I so strongly connect twitter with mobile that I forget all about people who access it through the site.

[onthewall2983]

I've done most of my tweeting through the website.

[Khrz]

I've done most of my tweeting through the website.

Based on every representation of Twitter I've seen : you're tweeting wrong.
I wouldn't know, I don't tweet. But if I ever twat, I'd tweet from a mobile phone, in the street, with a slightly annoyed / blasé expression.

[theimage13]

Legal-ish question. From the Twitter TOS:

"If you are accepting these Terms and using the Services on behalf of a company, organization, government, or other legal entity, you represent and warrant that you are authorized to do so."

Can the POTUS even qualify for a personal account? Or would his elected position insinuate that anything he says on twitter is being said on behalf of "The President" instead of "Donald"?

I mean, imagine that his personal account tweets out "fuck it lets nuke England" - is there some sort of magical filter that leads people to think "it's not the President saying that, it's just Don blowing off steam. Point being...if they're one and the same, wouldn't his personal account have to be locked down the same way that the official @POTUS handle is? I remember a number of articles citing that his personal feed is a major security risk since it can be hacked just as easily as any other personal account.

[thelastdisciple]

Speaking of twitter and giving fascists like Spencer special treatment as opposed to a punch in the face.

Thread: https://twitter.com/Rrrrnessa/status/823218604820799488

[Kid Charlemagne]

Because a "punch in the face" being substituted for "special treatment" changes fucking *anything* in that story. /s

Leftists no longer have what it takes to change that story.So what are you doing to help? Your line of thinking is exactly what's wrong with this country and movement, because you appear to stand for nothing. At least those of us who went marching and stayed informed felt empowered. For instance, I talked to a group of people in San Antonio yesterday who joined the marches to help protect their insurance because they work at several plants around the city and didn't vote for Trump and are scared of losing their jobs and health care. That right there is something I never would've given much of an ear to, had I not even gotten up to march on the behalf of my mother, my fiancee, and my step daughter. Just because you choose not to get off your ass and decide to troll a message board, doesn't mean the rest of us can't get up and help out and make sure we destroy the right in the 2018 mid terms. Keep bitching and complaining if you want, as long as you realize you're part of the problem.

[Frozen Beach]

There is no way in hell Shia LaBeouf is going to survive his 4 year protest stream without having a mental breakdown. I give him a few more days. He looks incredibly on edge. Dude is losing his mind.

[Khrz]

There is no way in hell Shia LaBeouf is going to survive his 4 year protest stream without having a mental breakdown. I give him a few more days. He looks incredibly on edge. Dude is losing his mind.

You can't mess up chaos, the guy's unhinged from the start, it will only make him more Shia than ever.

[leo3375]

I need to retract my previous statement about Spicer.

Konway just told Chuck Todd that Spicer did not lie but said "alternative facts".

You guys are fucked. Bigly.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSrEEDQgFc8

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb376/DrumtheButcher/PumbaJawDRop.gif

[Kid Charlemagne]

I invest significant portions of my time, energy, and other resources towards things that facilitate that allow for successful movements. Some of which have already succeeded.

It's not about me. It's about you. It's about what YOU are going to either waste your time on or succeed with. You are on you way to repeat the 8 years of ineffectual protest that we saw under Bush. The left has given away most of their power to enact change, both ideologically and in legally. They also can't stick to one foundation long enough for anything to matter. How are those DNC primaries getting fixed? Maybe the caucuses? Maybe the Electoral College? yeah... You've spent years transferring power to government, asking the government to do everything for you. Now that power is in the hands of someone you hate. You frequently justified it with "breaking our groups into individuals through a focus on raw powerful individualism isn't strengthening us, its weakening us" ... Now you see how ridiculous that statement is. The power in groups comes from not only strong individuals but also the group's ability to self-govern, seize power, etc. All abilities that have been stripped down in the name of of supposed "togetherness" controlled by the elite.

The right wingers have now demonstrated more revolutionary power and capacity than the left. It also means that they will be the ones most capable of filling any vacuum that the left could hope to create. So go ahead and emote in the streets and come home feeling good about it if you want. Don't delude yourself into think that its going to "protect insurance."What exactly have you done? You realize you're saying the right wing won when it's blatantly obvious that there was outside interference from Russia. They didn't demonstrate power or win anything, they stole it. The voters showed it by the popular vote, the documents against Trump, they're basically a sinking ship at this point. The only thing they've done is steal an election for the time being. Yesterday more than anything proved they didn't win, their backs are against the wall, and I guarantee you there will be push back on someone who is the most disliked person to ever take office. Nobody wasted their time yesterday, it got under Trump's skin knowing that a fucking women's march outdid his numbers, why else would he have mentioned it? The only person wasting their time is you, because you haven't done jack shit in the past 24 hours besides bitch and complain. Tell me, how is that doing your part?

[Louie_Cypher]

Conway put's the con in way say's Drumf won't release his tax return's because "people don't care" that and of course.... grizzlies
-louie

[Kid Charlemagne]

lol "russia stole the presidency" ... "but the popular vote" ...

you are further behind than I assumed. i can only hope that the majority of the left aren't that far behind.You're the one behind if you think that Russia wasn't interfering in swing states, and you obviously have no concept of coastal elite numbers that made up the popular vote. But why should I be surprised when you're displayed nothing but ignorance and a tired argument about the big bad left.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

So Madonna, of all people, speaks at the women's march, welcoming everyone to the revolution of love, and then tells Trump to go "suck a dick"?

Wow. Class up the ass, Madge. This is the same person that criticizes even the most minute details of her entourage's fashion accessories and forbids her dancers to make eye contact with her.

[Frozen Beach]

She also said she often thought about blowing up the white house. If a non celebrity said something like that, they'd be thrown in prison.

[Dr Channard]

Some suggest that there are an infinite number of parallel realities where each possible outcome eventually plays out in one of them. If only I could transport myself to the one where Bernie Sanders was just sworn in as President. Of course I’d have to murder the me of that universe, dispose of my corpse, and assume my identity.… Would that be considered murder or suicide? Also, would it be considered identity theft, or not?

[Prettybrokenspiral]

She also said she often thought about blowing up the white house. If a non celebrity said something like that, they'd be thrown in prison.

Exactly. The hypocrisy of this doofus should not go unabated. She's basically shit on whatever message the women's march was trying to get across with her bullshit revolution rhetoric and publicity-seeking comments

If she had spoken eloquently for all women and then Trump turned around and told Madge to "suck my dick" on Twitter, he would be burned on a cross in the middle of the National Mall. Madonna makes a public remark that could easily be interpreted as homophobic, says she fantasizes often about blowing up the white house, and gets treated like some sort of hero.

I want nothing more than to see protests and movements like the kind that transpired this weekend prevail. But when you have dipshits like her up there making remarks like this, you've just assassinated any wide-ranging point that's trying to be made.

[Kid Charlemagne]

"no you"Congratulations. You have less tact and sense than a high schooler rocking a Che Guevara shirt and Rage Against the Machine on his iPhone.

[Kid Charlemagne]

Exactly. The hypocrisy of this doofus should not go unabated. She's basically shit on whatever message the women's march was trying to get across with her bullshit revolution rhetoric and publicity-seeking comments

If she had spoken eloquently for all women and then Trump turned around and told Madge to "suck my dick" on Twitter, he would be burned on a cross in the middle of the National Mall. Madonna makes a public remark that could easily be interpreted as homophobic, says she fantasizes often about blowing up the white house, and gets treated like some sort of hero.

I want nothing more than to see protests and movements like the kind that transpired this weekend prevail. But when you have dipshits like her up there making remarks like this, you've just assassinated any wide-ranging point that's trying to be made.If you think Madonna's unfortunate choice of words is going to dictate what happened yesterday, then I don't know what to tell you. You choose to single out one celebrity out of the dozens that spoke and hundreds of others that marched in other areas, come on that's shallow. Do you think Toby Keith speaks for everyone who casts a vote for the GOP? It's not fair to let one bad egg spoil what happened. Hardly anyone is still talking about it, and even more people know it's a publicity play for someone who hasn't had a hit in ages.

[slave2thewage]

Translation of Madonna's speech: "My gays are forgetting me, let me try to be controversial so I can get them away from Gaga and Carly Rae."

[Dryalex12]

Yep, it's only day one. Imagine how tired you're going to be of it in three or four years. You're not even addressing the complaints about the things he's done prior to day one.

but, like you said, it's only day one, (http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/20/the-white-house-websites-page-on-climate-change-just-disappeared.html) and already the priorities are rolling out. The White House website's page on climate change disappeared immediately after he was sworn in. Hey though, that shouldn't come as a surprise, (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-energy-nationalparks-idUSKBN14V1EP) though right? He will try to boost the economy at the expense of all that hippy dippy environmentalism, and his supporters will love him for it. He'll bribe companies with multi-million dollar incentives so that they won't export jobs, and people will call him a champion for the working man. He'll do maybe a third of what he promised, and it will fuck this country (and its people) up beyond repair...

and then his supporters will blame Obama for that part.

Post removed due to major assholeness

[onthewall2983]

This thread will be well ready for you when you are. Not if, when. If yesterday was any indication, more and more of America will hopefully be more hands-on with the political process.

[Mantra]

Look i don't like to talk about politics, I try to stay far away from it. I know little to nothing about it....but the truth is, to be blunt....I don't care until it starts to effect me.

The thing is, if a political situation gets bad enough to start seriously impacting your life, it might be too late to do anything about it by that point. Otherwise it's like saying, "I'll quit smoking after I get lung cancer. No point bothering before then."

I think the idea behind political engagement is to (hopefully) prevent everything from turning to shit in the first place.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Hardly anyone is still talking about it, and even more people know it's a publicity play for someone who hasn't had a hit in ages.

Right. So I guess that makes it okay then. It was all just an act. She wasn't actually being homophobic with her "suck a dick" remark. She wasn't actually contradicting her "revolution of love" bullshit with her fantasies of blowing up the white house.

Good logic there, KC. It's obvious you just want to fight with as many people in this thread as you possibly can, something I have zero desire to do. Especially when your justification for Madge's hypocrisy is more hypocrisy.

[theimage13]

The thing is, if a political situation gets bad enough to start seriously impacting your life, it might be too late to do anything about it by that point. Otherwise it's like saying, "I'll quit smoking after I get lung cancer. No point bothering before then."

I think the idea behind political engagement is to (hopefully) prevent everything from turning to shit in the first place.

Both valid points, but I'd be careful about discouraging people who are getting involved later than ideal. It's never too late to start. Quitting smoking after being diagnosed with lung cancer could be the difference between a successful long-term treatment and dying in a few months.

I agree with your overall point though: the sooner you get involved, the better. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as they say.

[theimage13]

I don't mean to sound like a giant asshole that doesn't care about peoples feelings but.......the reason why i haven't said anything about what he has done i well.....to be blunt...I'm a giant asshole who doesn't care about other people's feelings

Added the text in bold to accurately update that post.

When a leader of a democratic government condones sexual assault, dismisses and discourages scientific fact (anti-vax, climate change, etc), fights to diminish a free press, and spews hate speech on a near-daily basis, IT AFFECTS EVERYONE.

Okay, maybe your apartment didn't blow up. Good for you. Your material possessions are safe. But meanwhile, millions of women are at risk of losing access to affordable health care. These are the same women who are now being catcalled and harassed even more than they were before, because if the President can do it, why can't other guys? Kids - who can't make their own choices - will be put at an increased risk for serious and potentially fatal diseases because this guy thinks vaccines cause autism. Global temperatures will continue to rise at an alarming rate because he's already working to peel back rules for stricter emissions controls. And under-educated Americans who don't have the intelligence to separate fact from fiction will start believing what the administration tells you, instead of what has been reported through multiple channels and trusted established sources. Then there's the saber-rattling with volatile nuclear-capable nations....

But hey, at least your shitty little apartment didn't blow up, so I guess you don't need to be at all concerned about what's going on in politics.

[Aladdinsanity]

Right. So I guess that makes it okay then. It was all just an act. She wasn't actually being homophobic with her "suck a dick" remark. She wasn't actually contradicting her "revolution of love" bullshit with her fantasies of blowing up the white house.

Good logic there, KC. It's obvious you just want to fight with as many people in this thread as you possibly can, something I have zero desire to do. Especially when your justification for Madge's hypocrisy is more hypocrisy.
holy concern troll, batman

[theruiner]

Trump grabbing someone's pussy is not gonna somehow blow up my apt.

Totally! I mean, who cares about sexually assaulting women, right, bro?


Look i don't like to talk about politics, I try to stay far away from it. I know little to nothing about it....but the truth is, to be blunt....I don't care until it starts to effect me.
And when it does you don't get to come in here and complain about it. You make your bed, you get to lie in it.


Again, I dont want to sound like an asshole
Well, you do. "I don't care about anyone but myself" is a disgusting, shitty attitude to have and you should seriously do some reflecting on if that's really the kind of person you want to be.

[Kid Charlemagne]

Right. So I guess that makes it okay then. It was all just an act. She wasn't actually being homophobic with her "suck a dick" remark. She wasn't actually contradicting her "revolution of love" bullshit with her fantasies of blowing up the white house.

Good logic there, KC. It's obvious you just want to fight with as many people in this thread as you possibly can, something I have zero desire to do. Especially when your justification for Madge's hypocrisy is more hypocrisy.Christ almighty, when did I even mention that what she said was okay? Way to miss to the fucking point completely.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

holy concern troll, batman

It's a valid concern, I'd say

Some over-privileged celebrity getting up on live television in front of millions of people telling the president to go suck a dick and and talking about blowing up the white house is just as concerning as some asshole who talked about grabbing a woman's vagina a dozen years ago, don't you think?

Because when we just see it as a publicity-play and not that big of a deal, it kind of contradicts what we're marching for/protesting/in an uproar about in the first place, yea?

[Kid Charlemagne]

It's a valid concern, I'd say

Some over-privileged celebrity getting up on live television in front of millions of people telling the president to go suck a dick and and talking about blowing up the white house is just as concerning as some asshole who talked about grabbing a woman's vagina a dozen years ago, don't you think?

Because when we just see it as a publicity-play and not that big of a deal, it kind of contradicts what we're marching for/protesting/in an uproar about in the first place, yea?She's not the leader of the free world, nor is she running for it. There's a huge fucking difference.

[Dryalex12]

Totally! I mean, who cares about sexually assaulting women, right, bro?


And when it does you don't get to come in here and complain about it. You make your bed, you get to lie in it.


Well, you do. "I don't care about anyone but myself" is a disgusting, shitty attitude to have and you should seriously do some reflecting on if that's really the kind of person you want to be.


That is not at all what I think. I knew it was gonna bite me in the when I said that.

I do care for everyone of you, but the thing is....I don't know what to do? Look, I'm half sorry, I'm sorry for sounding like a giant prick who didn't care about anyone. That is not at all what I wanted.

I just want to be able to go on the net, do stuff I like without getting so depressed by how fucking hopeless all of you are. The pessimism is so fucking high all over the place that I think iI need to rename it to Pissimism.

I do care, there's just nothing I really can do. *shrugs* all I am is 20-year-old guy from Oregon who has Aspergers, what the hell am I gonna do? Should I got outside and flood the streets to protest, you know, cuz there aren't any ambulances and fire trucks that need to get through.


I get it, the stuff he said was bad and I don't like. But in the long run, it hasn't done anything to me.

This is why I don't post here, and i'm going back to saying off here.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

She's not the leader of the free world, nor is she running for it. There's a huge fucking difference.

_______________________


Good logic there, KC. It's obvious you just want to fight with as many people in this thread as you possibly can, something I have zero desire to do. Especially when your justification for Madge's hypocrisy is more hypocrisy.

[Demogorgon]

_______________________

Hypocrisy has kind of been one of Kid's signature calling cards in his tenure here; it's not real surprising now.

[Kid Charlemagne]

Fine, keep creating fake outrage over some celebrity who you think has soured a movement, when it was hardly a story to begin with. Never did I say I was fine with what she said, I merely mentioned that being outraged at Madonna's stupid speech is a lame ass way of trying to dilute all the positive vibes of yesterday considering she's a fucking musician who has built a whole career off of being shocking and outrageous. But if her word is gospel of millions of other people who have nothing to do with her, then that's your problem.

[Kid Charlemagne]

Hypocrisy has kind of been on of Kid's signature calling cards in his tenure here; it's not real surprising now.Who are you?

[Demogorgon]

Who are you?

The last person in the world that you want to try and take an attitude with, which is why I'm sparing you the effort. Stick to your "movement" and your empty tough guy activist act.

[Kid Charlemagne]

The last person in the world that you want to try and take an attitude with, which is why I'm sparing you the effort. Stick to your "movement" and your empty tough guy activist act.Go ahead. Do your worst. And while you're at it, add something intelligent to the conversation that everyone is trying to have, instead of making empty threats on a fucking Nine Inch Nails message board.

[Demogorgon]

The overemotional leakage that runs rampant here is the perfect reason not to engage most of you in conversation, because you can't debate logically and fairly if you're busy yanking on your outrage boner. As evidenced by the fact that you feel like you're being threatened, when my statement was just that: a statement of fact. Your constant leveling of the victim card is tiresome.

[Kid Charlemagne]

The overemotional leakage that runs rampant here is the perfect reason not to engage most of you in conversation, because you can't debate logically and fairly if you're busy yanking on your outrage boner. As evidenced by the fact that you feel like you're being threatened, when my statement was just that: a statement of fact. Your constant leveling of the victim card is tiresome.All I've done afternoon is debate with people here on the merits of yesterday's march, and how I fee' they're wrong. You're the one who is "sparing me" your effort. And considering I hardly post on here to begin with, you thinking I'm playing the victim card is hilarious. But go ahead man, shoot me some logic about how I'm wrong and how you'll debate circles around me. Not once here have I portrayed myself as a victim of a system that has forgotten about me, instead, I talked about how I got off my ass and got involved. But please, enlighten everyone of how you're going to totally put me in my place.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Fine, keep creating fake outrage over some celebrity who you think has soured a movement, when it was hardly a story to begin with.

This is where you're wrong, I'm afraid.

And before I go on, this isn't me being an arrogant prick or some jerkoff on the internet trying to win some political argument. Your logic here is genuinely disconcerting.

Whether she was at that march for a valid reason or just to make some waves for her faltering entertainment career is not the point. She's a celebrity who got up on a public platform and contradicted pretty much everything people were marching in protest of this weekend.

If people were truly marching and protesting for love and peace, then nobody should be okay with some attention-seeking diva like Madonna getting up on live television and saying what she did.

"Mr. President, go suck a dick" in front of the entire world isn't hateful? That's not as bad as Trump talking about grabbing a female's crotch more than a decade ago in a private conversation?

"I fantasize about blowing up the white house" isn't counteracting the entire point of a protest march in the name of love and peace? Who the fuck allowed her to get up there in the first place? People were cheering in the audience when she said those things. Nobody in their right mind, who is there to protest, should be applauding that shit.

I see shit like that and I think to myself "those people are just misguided as our new leader is". What good is a protest when someone can show up for self-serving reasons, say what she did and then get applauded for it? And now, just because she's not running for office, nobody really gives a fuck and you think it's not that big of a deal?

It's the larger picture here. As I said earlier, I want to see movements like this weekend succeed and flourish. I want to see democracy in action prevail in dark times. Putting a dipshit like Madonna on national television to make hateful, shitty remarks to the applause and nonchalance of millions of others is not the way to do it, I'm afraid..

[hellospaceboy]

Can the POTUS even qualify for a personal account? Or would his elected position insinuate that anything he says on twitter is being said on behalf of "The President" instead of "Donald"?


Okay, I'm not really addressing what you asked, but it reminded me...
The best thing about Trump being so in love with twitter and refusing to step away from it is that you can message the leader of the free world and tell him that he's a human turd, and there is a chance that he will actually read it. It's awesome!

[Kid Charlemagne]

This is where you're wrong, I'm afraid.

And before I go on, this isn't me being an arrogant prick or some jerkoff on the internet trying to win some political argument. Your logic here is genuinely disconcerting.

Whether she was at that march for a valid reason or just to make some waves for her faltering entertainment career is not the point. She's a celebrity who got up on a public platform and contradicted pretty much everything people were marching in protest of this weekend.

If people were truly marching and protesting for love and peace, then nobody should be okay with some attention-seeking diva like Madonna getting up on live television and saying what she did.

"Mr. President, go suck a dick" in front of the entire world isn't hateful? That's not as bad as Trump talking about grabbing a female's crotch more than a decade ago in a private conversation?

"I fantasize about blowing up the white house" isn't counteracting the entire point of protest march in the name of love and peace? Who the fuck allowed her to get up there in the first place? People were cheering in the audience when she said those things. Nobody in their right mind, who is there to protest, should be applauding that shit.

I see shit like that and I think to myself "those people are just misguided as our new leader is". What good is a protest when someone can show up for self-serving reasons, say what she did and then get applauded for it? And now, just because she's not running for office, nobody really gives a fuck and you think it's not that big of a deal?

It's the larger picture here. As I said earlier, I want to see movements like this weekend succeed and flourish. I want to see democracy in action prevail in dark times. Putting a dipshit like Madonna on national television to make hateful, shitty remarks to the applause and nonchalance of millions of others is not the way to do it, I'm afraid..Blame the media and the DC organizers? I don't know. I certainly didn't hear about it till after the fact on Pitchfork, Spin, and Rolling Stone who only mentioned it because they're music publications and basically have to report it. I can tell you by reading on Twitter that nobody I saw was in favor of her antics. Elsewhere, other speakers seemed to have a positive message about peace and understanding, especially towards those on the other side. Yeah, of course I don't agree with anything she said, and don't condone of those cheering her, I also know that she doesn't speak for everyone regardless of how popular of a celebrity she is.

[BRoswell]

But in the long run, it hasn't done anything to me.

The gay marriage decision didn't affect me (I am gay, but I have no interest in marriage). Does that mean I didn't do everything I could to fight for it? No, because there are people I know (and people I DON'T know) who it did affect. It's called empathy, and it's something that is lacking in this world, especially as of late. Saying that "I only care if it affects me" and "it's survival of the fittest" is exactly what fucks like Trump want you to think. (Just look at how many times he's mentioned his "good genes" and you'll see what I mean.) They don't want you to get involved. They want you to stay sedentary and just watch as everything goes by.

You asked what you were supposed to do about everything. Well, you don't have to get out in the streets and hold up signs and protest (or destroy property, as some idiots were want to do). You can start small. I always say it's important to stay educated. Read up on issues that affect people, and by that I don't mean just watching the news or reading stuff on forums. Learn about history and you'll see just how connected we all are and how stuff can affect you, even if you aren't aware of it.

[hellospaceboy]

The right wingers have now demonstrated more revolutionary power and capacity than the left. It also means that they will be the ones most capable of filling any vacuum that the left could hope to create.


To be fair, the republican party was NOT in control of the process either... the conservatives are, in the long run, the real losers of this election cycle, because they lost their party to the "right wingers". I think it will be easier for the democrats to regroup, because the GOP will have to pretend that everything is honky dory with Trump while he takes a shit on their values... I'm not saying that you're wrong about the vacuum being filled from the right, what I'm saying that it's the default spirit of the times, and not the result of the right having the foresight to build the momentum.

[Demogorgon]

But please, enlighten everyone of how you're going to totally put me in my place.

I don't particularly need to, considering how badly you're already being humiliated by others here.

Your tough guy act is sad and ineffective and if you really want change, you'd be out doing it and not arguing with people here, which is another point of hypocrisy, considering how you made such a point about forum arguing. Oh, sure, you marched, great, fantastic. One day of marching out of a 4 year presidency. Great job, you really showed him. Quit wasting time arguing about how great you feel and go DO something, because the Trump administration does not give a shit how you "feel". Feelings aren't going to change anything.

[Kid Charlemagne]

I don't particularly need to, considering how badly you're already being humiliated by others here.

Your tough guy act is sad and ineffective and if you really want change, you'd be out doing it and not arguing with people here, which is another point of hypocrisy, considering how you made such a point about forum arguing. Oh, sure, you marched, great, fantastic. One day of marching out of a 4 year presidency. Great job, you really showed him. Quit wasting time arguing about how great you feel and go DO something, because the Trump administration does not give a shit how you "feel". Feelings aren't going to change anything.I've worked on three straight presidential campaigns, volunteering for the Democratic party in every election since 2008 when I was able to vote. I worked for the parks department for two years to help my city, and I'm also a donor for various Latino charities around the state of Texas. Please tell me more of how I'm not making a difference.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Blame the media

The media didn't say it. Madonna said it.


and the DC organizers?

I suppose we could point the finger at the organizers. But if we did, how embarrassing for them would that be? You're organizing a protest march in the nation's capital, and you allow some attention-seeking moron to be one of your guest speakers, she goes up there unscripted and just contradicts the entire foundation of your protest movement.

Do you see how this works? It's a ripple effect. So now the organizers are just as misguided as Madonna and the people who were applauding her remarks. Why are you organizing a protest when it's clear more than just a few of you are clueless to the fact? You're not furthering anything at this point. You're just looking dumb on live television.

As much as I may disagree with Trump and his policies, if you're going to hold him up on a pedestal for things he's said, then be fair and do it for everyone. Otherwise, get off the high horse and do something else to initiate the change you're striving for.


I don't know. I certainly didn't hear about it till after the fact on Pitchfork, Spin, and Rolling Stone who only mentioned it because they're music publications and basically have to report it. I can tell you by reading on Twitter that nobody I saw was in favor of her antics. Elsewhere, other speakers seemed to have a positive message about peace and understanding, especially towards those on the other side. Yeah, of course I don't agree with anything she said, and don't condone of those cheering her, I also know that she doesn't speak for everyone regardless of how popular of a celebrity she is.

It's great that people can come together and march in protest and stand up for a cause. I highly commend that act and the freedom we have that allows us to do that in this country. In other countries, you'd get stoned or have your fucking head cut off for even admitting you think about that sort of thing.

But you know what? All these people marching around with signs that read "Trump is the new Hitler" or "Fuck Donald Trump" or "Grab my pussy and die"...what is that? How is that helping anything? Peace and love where exactly? Like none of those dudes marching around in those protests have ever made an off-colored remark about a female and laughed about it? Or complained about job outsourcing or anything else we vilify the president for speaking out about?

Again, I -- in no way -- supported the candidacy of Clinton or Trump. To be honest, politics give me a headache and I live happily just the same not concerning myself with them to the degree a lot of others do. My life, my choice. But when I see an idiot like Madonna get up and say the things she did, and then see people like yourself saying it's a non-story and not that big of a deal...that alarms me. It's like I peak my head in the room and see nothing is really changing out there, despite all the noise being made.

That's what concerns me.

[Dryalex12]

I'm.....just gonna leave this thread.

I already feel like have to shoot myself in the head to make all this just go away.

Im going back to making music, fuck this shit

[Kid Charlemagne]

You can blame the media for it being shown. CNN and MSNBC could've cut to something else while she was getting up there. Having a Celebrity like Madonna almost ensures that something off the wall would happen. Yeah, if I were running it, there's no way in hell I'd have have go up there without an idea of what she's doing, but blame those organizers, not those of us marching in other places who had no idea she'd say anything when she did. You say you don't like politics and are fine living in your own bubble without it, so why does this piss you off so much? What are you going to do to change what you see or perceive as wrong?

[Demogorgon]

Please tell me more of how I'm not making a difference.

Donald Trump is the President of the United States.

Looks like you made a big difference. A real impact. Pat on the back. Not one of your great efforts was wasted, obviously.

[Kid Charlemagne]

Donald Trump is the President of the United States.

Looks like you made a big difference. A real impact. Pat on the back. Not one of your great efforts was wasted, obviously.At least I did something, what have you done beside looking like an asshole?

[Demogorgon]

Plenty. But that's no one's business but my own, and I'm not bragging about it to make my ego feel good and get a self-esteem boost from a bunch of folks over the internet.

[Kid Charlemagne]

Plenty. But that's no one's business but my own, and I'm not bragging about it to make my ego feel good and get a self-esteem boost from a bunch of folks over the internet.No, but you look like a pathetic fool who can't back up your argument and rise to the occasion when someone questions your integrity, which you don't seem to have.

[BRoswell]

But when I see an idiot like Madonna get up and say the things she did, and then see people like yourself saying it's a non-story and not that big of a deal...that alarms me.

You know what really alarms me? When people who actually work for the president use terms like "alternate facts" and blatantly lie to us without giving it a second thought. Madonna's not going to blow up the White House or force Trump to give a blowjob. She's a has-been who said something to get a rise out of people. She's been doing that since she started. THAT'S why it's not a big deal.

In short: fuck Madonna.

[Demogorgon]

No, but you look like a pathetic fool who can't back up your argument and rise to the occasion when someone questions your integrity, which you don't seem to have.

I didn't put forth an argument. I made an observation that you're a hypocrite, which you are, and that's something you prove every time you show up here.

Beyond that, The only thing here that's pathetic is how badly you try to tear everyone else down and make yourself look like such an inspiring political firebrand. I don't need to defend my integrity. It's fine. You, on the other are living up to the "kid" part of your name with your childish insults and lack of any sort of real political acumen.

I've digressed long enough. Good luck with your crusade. Maybe if you grow up in the next few days, you'll be more willing to listen to what some of the other people here are trying to tell you.

[Kid Charlemagne]

I didn't put forth an argument. I made an observation that you're a hypocrite, which you are, and that's something you prove every time you show up here.

Beyond that, The only thing here that's pathetic is how badly you try to tear everyone else down and make yourself look like such an inspiring political firebrand. I don't need to defend my integrity. It's fine. You, on the other are living up to the "kid" part of your name with your childish insults and lack of any sort of real political acumen.

I've digressed long enough. Good luck with your crusade. Maybe if you grow up in the next few days, you'll be more willing to listen to what some of the other people here are trying to tell you.I take it that this is you giving up, because you have nothing to bring to this thread? I've debated with two others here on why I thought their stances were wrong, and all you did was try to vilify me without adding anything at all to the conversation. You can call me a hypocrite all you want, but you're worse than that. You're nothing, that's why you can't defend yourself or your integrity.

[Demogorgon]

I take it that this is you giving up, because you have nothing to bring to this thread?

I wasn't having an argument, so there's nothing to give up. *shrug* If your ego is so fragile that you need to feel like you "beat" me in something, then sure, you can have your gold star and your participation trophy. Congratulations.


You can call me a hypocrite all you want,

okay, hypocrite.


You're nothing, that's why you can't defend yourself or your integrity.

Like I already told you; I don't need to defend my integrity. Never have, never will. What's your excuse?

Regardless, you're only trying to bait me, and it's not going to work. Good luck though, if you think it will get you anywhere.

[Kid Charlemagne]

I don't think any decent human being would condone trashing businesses or small scale riots. But your outrage of her speech and the reaction of people applauding her is really getting to you, despite just saying that you don't hold us other protesters accountable. Do I think everyone who voted for Trump, including some in my extended family are all sexist and racist? Not at all, they chose to vote for him in a "lesser of two evils", which is how plenty of people seemed to vote last year despite the unpopularity of both candidates. I see yesterday's protests as a first of many of us coming together to fight the opposition. I can't count how many groups of people went out marching their for all various causes. That's fucking amazing! I'd bet that there's going to be many of people writing and calling their government officials because they're re-energized and no longer disillusioned. Sometimes all a movement needs is a kick in the ass, and there's no doubt in my mind that yesterday's protest, however small you think it is, will be the catalyst.

[Kid Charlemagne]

I wasn't having an argument, so there's nothing to give up. *shrug* If your ego is so fragile that you need to feel like you "beat" me in something, then sure, you can have your gold star and your participation trophy. Congratulations.

,

okay, hypocrite.



Like I already told you; I don't need to defend my integrity. Never have, never will. What's your excuse?

Regardless, you're only trying to bait me, and it's not going to work. Good luck though, if you think it will get you anywhere.You just replied to me after saying you were done, now who's the hypocrite?

[Demogorgon]

You just replied to me after saying you were done, now who's the hypocrite?

Funny, I also just said you were trying to bait me. Let me guess; you like to have the last word, don't you? Guess it must gall you not to. Is your ego fed enough? I'll just give you the next one, if it isn't. Wouldn't want you to starve.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

You know what really alarms me? When people who actually work for the president use terms like "alternate facts" and blatantly lie to us without giving it a second thought. Madonna's not going to blow up the White House or force Trump to give a blowjob. She's a has-been who said something to get a rise out of people. She's been doing that since she started. THAT'S why it's not a big deal.

In short: fuck Madonna.

I respect your opinion here, even if I don't entirely agree with it.

If she had said it on Twitter or in some shitty magazine, then yes...probably not that big of a deal. It just reenforces my opinion that she's an overrated dullard, of which I've felt for years.

My concern here is, again, the way she did it. At a women's protest march, on live television. Set the example...don't be the example. If Springsteen got up at a men's protest and changed the lyrics of BITUSA to "Truuuump can go eaaaaat a cuuuuuunt...", I'd feel the same exact way. You're speaking on behalf of a protest march and this is how you do it? By being no better than the guy you're protesting?

Two wrongs, etc. That's why it's concerning to me. But if nobody else sees it as a problem, then what do I know.

[Kid Charlemagne]

Funny, I also just said you were trying to bait me. Let me guess; you like to have the last word, don't you? Guess it must gall you not to. Is your ego fed enough? I'll just give you the next one, if it isn't. Wouldn't want you to starve.Thanks for being intelligent in this conversation and debating the merits of Donald Trump with the rest of us, you did great today.

[Aladdinsanity]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI8TzwBaHJo

[Demogorgon]

Thanks for being intelligent in this conversation and debating the merits of Donald Trump with the rest of us, you did great today.

To be clear: Trump has no merits, so... nothing to debate there.

This time I really am going to let you have that last word. Go ahead. One last sad attempt at an insult my way, free of charge.

[BRoswell]

Two wrongs, etc. That's why it's concerning to me. But if nobody else sees it as a problem, then what do I know.

I don't see it as a problem because it's Madonna being Madonna, and I've never cared about any of the so-called "controversial" things she's said. It's the same with any celebrity who gets on stage and says something stupid. It's not worth being concerned over, especially in light of pretty much everything else that's going on.

[Kid Charlemagne]

I don't see it as a problem because it's Madonna being Madonna, and I've never cared about any of the so-called "controversial" things she's said. It's the same with any celebrity who gets on stage and says something stupid. It's not worth being concerned over, especially in light of pretty much everything else that's going on.Pretty much this. I'm more concerned with Trump baiting Iraq and "what are facts?" than I am with "attention loving celebrity seeks attention".


To be clear: Trump has no merits, so... nothing to debate there.

This time I really am going to let you have that last word. Go ahead. One last sad attempt at an insult my way, free of charge.You said the same this last time, your act is so boring.

[Mantra]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI8TzwBaHJo

The funniest one I've seen so far has been the Born in the USA one:
https://twitter.com/prttybadtweeter/status/822620848897069056

[Mantra]

I do care for everyone of you, but the thing is....I don't know what to do? Look, I'm half sorry, I'm sorry for sounding like a giant prick who didn't care about anyone. That is not at all what I wanted.

I just want to be able to go on the net, do stuff I like without getting so depressed by how fucking hopeless all of you are. The pessimism is so fucking high all over the place that I think iI need to rename it to Pissimism.

I do care, there's just nothing I really can do. *shrugs* all I am is 20-year-old guy from Oregon who has Aspergers, what the hell am I gonna do? Should I got outside and flood the streets to protest, you know, cuz there aren't any ambulances and fire trucks that need to get through.

Sure, protesting is really good sometimes, but honestly the greatest thing you can do is VOTE IN THE 2018 MIDTERM ELECTIONS.

It looks like Oregon doesn't have any senators up for reelection that year, but they do have a number of people up for election for the House of Representatives. Check your map (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon's_congressional_districts) and see which congressional district you belong to and vote. If you have friends/family/etc that will listen to you, get them to vote too. The good thing is that Oregon is a pretty reliably blue state (although it looks like the 2nd Congressional district had a Republican who's stuck in there for almost 20 years). You should vote and make sure it STAYS that way. These things matter because these are all the people who actually WRITE the fucking laws of this country. Right now congress is dominated by a bunch of Republican scumbags who will more or less do everything Trump orders them to do. It's a bad fucking situation. But if we can successfully REPLACE those assholes with Dems (or anyone else who's strongly opposed to Trump) it'll make his job way fucking harder. Then we'll actually stand a chance.

You're still fairly young, so it's actually totally normal to feel overwhelmed/helpless about the political situation around you. Something else to consider is getting into some smaller issue that interests you and see what you can do there. After all, you're just one person, you can't save the whole world. But if you get super into a certain topic or issue, you might figure out that there's something you feel inspired to do. Or, at the very least, just learn about things and be part of the conversation. That's my two cents.

[sick among the pure]

when the Trump admin ordered the National Park twitter account to stop tweeting after posting the crowd size comparison picture.


Actually, the ENTIRE DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR had their Twitter accounts frozen. They did a full slash and burn in response to the National Parks retweet. It was a MUCH BIGGER over-reaction than what you think.

[Jinsai]

"Utter a falsehood"? How about "LIE"? Spicer straight up lied.

Until we call a spade a spade we keep letting them win.

I don't know, but the press are walking on eggshells right now. They're rightfully terrified that this temperamental blowhard is going to castrate them publicly like this administration already has done with CNN. It's a strange time to be alive. If they really call him out, they will be lambasted.... on fucking Twitter

@sickamongthepure (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=5418) I'm only face-palming because I'm lost for words. As much as I empathize with the statement, I can't click the 'like' button.

[Jinsai]

I don't mean to sound like a giant asshole that doesn't care about peoples feelings but.......the reason why i haven't said anything about what he has done i well.....to be blunt...it hasn't done anything to impact my life.........yet. It's pretty much survival of the fittest at this point.

Trump grabbing someone's pussy is not gonna somehow blow up my apt.

Look i don't like to talk about politics, I try to stay far away from it. I know little to nothing about it....but the truth is, to be blunt....I don't care until it starts to effect me.

Again, I dont want to sound like an asshole, and I expect a lot of facepalms, but its the cold hard truth. you just gonna have to deal with it

If this is really the way you feel, I hope you didn't vote.

[slave2thewage]

If they really call him out, they will be lambasted.... on fucking Twitter.

Is Twitter still a relevant thing? Lots of people I know have abandoned it in the last year or so and we were told in the business module of my music course that it's the only 'big' social media network where the membership is currently shrinking. Although, tumblr seems to be winding down as well.

[slave2thewage]

Sorry for the double post, but WHAT. IS. THIS?!?! (https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/193)

[baudolino]

and all of the uber-cynic GOP fuckwits just want to please their amazingly great leader? they are already afraid of him imo. they will never dare telling him the truth even when they themselves recongnize it (highly unlikely anyway).

[xmd 5a]

Agree. It's the Trumpers who took some level of control over the GOP. The "revolutionaries" if you will. They have been building themselves since the Tea Party days. (Not that TP=Trumpers... it's a weird mix and a whole other topic)

And timing absolutely plays a part of every "revolutionary" change. That's another thing I'm pissed at the left for. There have been quite a few times, especially recently, that they could have leveraged the moment IF they had a foundation ready for it. Shit, we would have Sanders for president right now if they had even a skeleton of what I'm talking about.

You guys have the numbers. It's everything else that is lacking. It kills me to see that because I want to see people succeed in overturning establishment corruption.

+1. The "America is already great" sentiment and the strategy of trying to convert "moderate" Republicans were both facepalm-worthy fails on the Dems part. Trump barely did better than McCain or Romney in terms of votes. The Republican base seems fairly consistent in size and rusted-on. The focus going forward needs to be on bringing the disaffected / non-voters into the fold. I feel like Sanders would've had a much better shot at that. My hope is that organisations like the DSA continue to pick up steam. I also feel like this "Russian hacking" crap is going to be the new Benghazi in terms of an endless waste of political energy and media airtime.

[xmd 5a]

Agree. It's the Trumpers who took some level of control over the GOP. The "revolutionaries" if you will. They have been building themselves since the Tea Party days. (Not that TP=Trumpers... it's a weird mix and a whole other topic)

And timing absolutely plays a part of every "revolutionary" change. That's another thing I'm pissed at the left for. There have been quite a few times, especially recently, that they could have leveraged the moment IF they had a foundation ready for it. Shit, we would have Sanders for president right now if they had even a skeleton of what I'm talking about.

You guys have the numbers. It's everything else that is lacking. It kills me to see that because I want to see people succeed in overturning establishment corruption.

+1. The "America is already great" sentiment and the strategy of trying to convert "moderate" Republicans were both facepalm-worthy fails on the Dems part. Trump barely did better than McCain or Romney in terms of votes. The Republican base seems fairly consistent in size and rusted-on. The focus going forward needs to be on bringing the disaffected / non-voters into the fold. I feel like Sanders would've had a much better shot at that. My hope is that organisations like the DSA continue to pick up steam. I also feel like this "Russian hacking" crap is going to be the new Benghazi in terms of an endless waste of political energy and media airtime.

[Louie_Cypher]

everyone should stay home today when your boss calls tell him you thought it was an"ternative workday" cop pulls you over you were following the"akternative" speed-limit. drumf making america alternative again, plus nobody cares.
-louie

[Mantra]

This pic of Kerry in the marches is fucking hilarious. Like he was just taking the dog out for a morning stroll and happened to wander into an enormous protest march. This guy could be my neighbor.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2tjbxLXcAAPh8Z.jpg:large

[onthewall2983]

Is Twitter still a relevant thing? Lots of people I know have abandoned it in the last year or so and we were told in the business module of my music course that it's the only 'big' social media network where the membership is currently shrinking. Although, tumblr seems to be winding down as well.

I would definitely say it's relevant now because of Trump, but beyond that who knows. Maybe the shrinkage as it is now has to do with not wanting that association. I'd be interested to know how many people they are losing. I'm definitely thinking twice about continuing on there. Everything I seem to re-tweet is related to him, after swearing to myself I wouldn't after the election was over. That said I have made some nice contact with people on there, occasionally was responded to by people I admire and had more than a few laughs.

[allegate]

Actions speak louder than words.

I may not be happy about this, but going out and throwing a fit and defenestrating random Starbucks windows is fucking stupid, it's immature, and it's not going to solve any problems

As much as I wanted anyone but him to win.........I just can't help it, I've always been the Devil's Advocate....I'm pretty much the poster boy for it.

Look, if he fucks up then i'll take back everything I said, but so far.....it's just day one.

Again, the Pariah is strong, but....let's just see how it goes...i could be very wrong.

I'm just kinda tired of hearing it,

Just seeing how hopeless you are is making me more depressed then him being president is.
Someone threw a Starbucks through a window? Oh shit. ;)

[Jinsai]

Is Twitter still a relevant thing? Lots of people I know have abandoned it in the last year or so and we were told in the business module of my music course that it's the only 'big' social media network where the membership is currently shrinking. Although, tumblr seems to be winding down as well.

Even if Trump is the last person on earth using it, it's his chosen mouthpiece, and as long as it exists it's proven to be a great format for abbreviated jabs and vague promises. I'm sure the horror of having to actually formulate coherent statements or communicate with the public regularly via a medium that doesn't insist upon brevity fills the president with waking dread.


+1. The "America is already great" sentiment and the strategy of trying to convert "moderate" Republicans were both facepalm-worthy fails on the Dems part. Trump barely did better than McCain or Romney in terms of votes. The Republican base seems fairly consistent in size and rusted-on. The focus going forward needs to be on bringing the disaffected / non-voters into the fold. I feel like Sanders would've had a much better shot at that. My hope is that organisations like the DSA continue to pick up steam. I also feel like this "Russian hacking" crap is going to be the new Benghazi in terms of an endless waste of political energy and media airtime.

I agree with most of what you're saying. I think the issue regarding Russia's interests right now is the larger point to the "possible hacking" side story, and Trump's praise and flattery of Putin is alarming.

[allegate]

Some suggest that there are an infinite number of parallel realities where each possible outcome eventually plays out in one of them. If only I could transport myself to the one where Bernie Sanders was just sworn in as President. Of course I’d have to murder the me of that universe, dispose of my corpse, and assume my identity.… Would that be considered murder or suicide? Also, would it be considered identity theft, or not?Well considering I saw an Observer on the Inauguration parade route...

[sick among the pure]

@sickamongthepure (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=5418) I'm only face-palming because I'm lost for words. As much as I empathize with the statement, I can't click the 'like' button.

I understand, I only know the extent of that twitter-block because my sister made some connections with a few departments when she won the Federal Duck Stamp a few years ago.

[onthewall2983]

You know what I'm afraid of, if he loses in 2020 (provided he manages to survive that long). Losing could be so bitter for him we all would surely pay for it.

[Volband]

You know what I'm afraid of, if he loses in 2020 (provided he manages to survive that long). Losing could be so bitter for him we all would surely pay for it.
I thought having an apocalyptic meltdown before the dude even sworn into office was questioable enough, but turns out some of you are way ahead of that curve.

No offense, but were you serious when you wrote this comment, or you are just fed up and/or feeling desperate of thinking about possible things to come (which have not yet), and your mind just went ballistic?

I check back here, but observe mainly reddit, where I read r/politics/ (anti-trump) and r/the_donald/ (pro-trump) when they hit r/All/, and my observation is that both sides are in an ever growing echo-chamber, fueling off from the other side. Some of you guys are cutting the tree under you by yourselves.

[allegate]

Absolutely. Throw in a large amount of "birth certificate" while GOP treats it like Dems treated Hilary's email.

Such a massive waste of time against someone like Trump. They'd have to find a blatant smoking gun that non-Dems would accept. It's so unlikely.Well...

I thought having an apocalyptic meltdown before the dude even sworn into office was questioable enough, but turns out some of you are way ahead of that curve.

No offense, but were you serious when you wrote this comment, or you are just fed up and/or feeling desperate of thinking about possible things to come (which have not yet), and your mind just went ballistic?

I check back here, but observe mainly reddit, where I read r/politics/ (anti-trump) and r/the_donald/ (pro-trump) when they hit r/All/, and my observation is that both sides are in an ever growing echo-chamber, fueling off from the other side. Some of you guys are cutting the tree under you by yourselves.
Probably not likely. There's a long divide here and the two sides aren't much for talking to each other right now.

[botley]

I provided links earlier to the US Code which provides that the President, Vice President and Congress are exempt from conflict of interest. Which is nuts but it is what it is.

https://www.google.com/amp/lawnewz.com/high-profile/trump-is-right-conflict-of-interest-rules-dont-apply-to-him/amp/?client=safari

Except that this is in your Constitution: "no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under [the United States] shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State." We'll see if this actually amounts to anything (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-lawsuit-idUSKBN157211) other than words in fancy 18th century handwriting.

[Your Name Here]

I have stopped by this thread many times, I read it all the time and try never to post. However the liberals and the conservatives as well as the Trump supporters you can argue all you want but it doesn't matter Washington is broken and one side obstructs the other side depending on who is in power. it is a never ending cycle on bullshit, and a thirst for power.
So let me ask everybody this more so to members that live in the United States. What do you think is going to happen? Where do you think this broken government will take us? This really started when George W Bush became president.
You may dispute my speculation or prediction but Texas has been talking about it for decades and now California is talking about it. SUCCESSION. You may laugh and say that will never happen but in 1999 you would probably laugh at planes flying into buildings but after 9/11 that wasn't funny anymore. I know there is a big difference between a terrorist act and individual states breaking off to form their own countries, but it might not be as out there as you think. I live California and nobody in California can understand why Trump is president and I bet you can go to a mid west state and they are glad Trump is president.
My point is as a nation we have become so different and have so little in common that politically maybe it is time to part ways. Texas is a very conservative state and has wanted to be its own country for a long time.
People are tired of the political discourse and not getting anywhere. I for one am embarrassed Trump is the president of the United States. I can very easily see the state of Washington, Oregon and California breaking off from the rest of the country because we are very liberal out here and we don't understand what the fuck is going on with the rest of this country. These three states don't even matter during elections a lot of it has been decided before our polls even close. I am fucking sick of hearing some conservative mouthing off and interrupting a conversation only to interject some opinion that isn't even based on any facts. We are living in an age where opinion wins out over fact, and that is an indirect quote of guest on Bill Mahers show the other night. I agree with it and all this bullshit about fake news FOX NEWS has been doing fake news for 20 years so who gives a fuck.

The west coast doesn't need the rest of this country so I am all for succession. I might not happen in the near future but if the liberals and conservatives continue in this direction it will be inevitably.

[slave2thewage]

I check back here, but observe mainly reddit,
Your biggest mistake was trying to find reasonable discourse on Reddit.

[BRoswell]

Secession sounds good to people until they realize what they would lose in the process.

[allegro]

Except that this is in your Constitution: "no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under [the United States] shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State." We'll see if this actually amounts to anything (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-lawsuit-idUSKBN157211) other than words in fancy 18th century handwriting.

Right, I mentioned that in my prior post, and that his lawyers claim he is donating all foreign profits in order to skirt that (as this article also mentions). His lawyers are pretty heavy-hitters. He has teams of lawyers to get away with shit. It's why people here in Cook County are pissed at how he keeps getting huge property tax reductions at his Trump building in Chicago without including profit valuation in the property assessment (which is customary for everybody else) and has politicians in his pocket, even DEMS.

See this (https://www.google.com/amp/chicago.suntimes.com/politics/chicago-democratic-ward-boss-edward-burke-saved-donald-trump-16-7-million-on-trump-tower-taxes/amp/?client=safari)

DigitalChaos, what alarms me are all the labor union members and states and areas in the Midwest inhabited by strong labor unions that have shifted to supporting REPUBLICANS. Never in my LIFE would I DREAM that any labor union or any of its members NOT be Democrat. The level that Dems have totally fucked up in supporting big business and their own pockets has led to their own demise. This is no longer only about "conservative vs. liberal," it's about people losing their jobs and their bargaining power and they're pissed off and they feel ignored. Some Republicans like Scott Walker in WI divided and conquered, screwing the teachers' union but supporting the police and fire unions. People are saying fuck the social issues, just lower my taxes and let me make more money without giving more to the Government. The unions aren't even socialist brotherhoods, anymore; it's all about money.

[Jinsai]

it'll be like another 8 years under Bush to the left.

There is no way in hell he will be reelected. It is not going to happen. In two years, the democrats will take back the house and senate. If he isn't impeached and removed from office, in four years he will safely lose to the most extreme version of far-left you've ever hypothetically considered.

In the mean time, we need to pressure the ACLU to act, donate actual money to their cause, and start actually signing petitions instead of lazily sharing them on social media. We need to insist that Trump deliver his tax returns, and it's at least somewhat less maddening to hear that Wikileaks is on board with that (fucking finally).

[allegro]

In the mean time, we need to pressure the ACLU to act
If you join the ACLU, you'll find that they have been doing stuff, already (you'd get regular emails plus their "Stand" magazine).

See this (https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/first-many-aclu-foia-request-seeks-information-about-new-presidents-conflicts).

Here's the latest cover of Stand, mine arrived a few days ago:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C18J4Y_XEAQStAT.jpg

[allegro]

@allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) - is there new data showing this about Unions? I mean, it doesn't surprise me considering how much the Dems outright insulted the working class, but I didn't realize unions had visibly started to turn like that. Thats serious shit for Dems if so... Well, MORE serious shit.
I know CHICAGO COPS who voted for Trump. Chicago Cops were always strict Democrats. For THEM to vote for Trump, there's some serious shit going on and it's not just hating Hillary. (Although, that was a big part of it.) They also hate the Democratic Mayor, Rahm Emanuel.

See this. (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/30/business/donald-trump-unions.html?_r=0)

See also this.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/why-donald-trump-makes-sense-to-a-lot-of-voters--even-some-democrats/2015/08/15/cee648f0-42bf-11e5-8ab4-c73967a143d3_story.html?utm_term=.af1672856e3d)

I'm from Detroit, and in that whole area you still get a lot of pissed-off looks for driving a foreign car. I mean, seriously pissed-off.

[Jinsai]

If you join the ACLU, you'll find that they have been doing stuff, already (you'd get regular emails plus their "Stand" magazine).

I've been following and offering meager donations as I go to the ACLU.

[Mantra]

what alarms me are all the labor union members and states and areas in the Midwest inhabited by strong labor unions that have shifted to supporting REPUBLICANS. Never in my LIFE would I DREAM that any labor union or any of its members NOT be Democrat. The level that Dems have totally fucked up in supporting big business and their own pockets has led to their own demise. This is no longer only about "conservative vs. liberal," it's about people losing their jobs and their bargaining power and they're pissed off and they feel ignored.

Yeah, exactly, although it's technically not the first time a Republican managed to win a bunch on union votes. If I recall correctly, Reagan managed to get somewhere around 45% of the union vote, which is pretty close to what Trump got. Reagan was even officially endorsed by the PATCO, and then he turned around and stabbed them in the back, completely destroying that union. That's why most unions will NEVER trust Republicans. When push comes to shove, they always show their true allegiances. It's stuff like that, plus an overall pro-management, pro-offshoring mentality that has driven the unions away from the Republicans and made them almost unanimously Democrat.

Then the Democrats turned into a bunch of fucking idiots and decided they wanted to play ball with banks and wall street and corporations. They've basically just been taking the union support for granted. Come election time they throw some nice slogans out there, and they're forever blessed with the "lesser evil" status, but beyond that they've been seriously neglecting their roots. All this NAFTA, TPP horseshit, they should have NEVER been fucking around with that shit. They had no business there. It was a stupid game to play, given how much their support comes from unions. It's biting the hand that feeds you. So now Trump has been able to come along and steal large chunks of their base because of their poor choices.

Ugh, every time I think about this shit I get so worked up and irritated. Dems better start SHAPING UP. Fucking idiots.

[allegro]

Reagan was even officially endorsed by the PATCO, and then he turned around and stabbed them in the back, completely destroying that union. That's why most unions will NEVER trust Republicans.
Except we know a SHITLOAD of NATCA members who vote Republican. So, not true. Bottom line is that the more money these people make, the more Republican they become. NATCA has a PAC that contributes over $80,000 annually to Republican members who are in favor of the National Right to Work Act (https://nrtwc.org/facts-issues/national-right-to-work-act/); the NATCA top elected officials claim they are simply being bi-partisan, but that's just stupid. On the other hand, they can't be a closed shop, by law, and so NRWA doesn't really affect them. But the NATCA elected President and VP voted to be on board with REPUBLICAN Bill Shuster to PRIVATIZE National Air Traffic Control, in affect making ATC function as a non-Government job and handing over millions of dollars in taxpayer-funded equipment over to a board owned by private airlines. And they didn't hand it over to the rank and file for a vote, they just voted Yes. So, of course, this shows that NATCA brass only cares about NATCA brass, even shutting down a proposal to change the NATCA charter at the most recent convention, preventing any future possibility of privatization (the President and VP did that), so the members are pretty sure the President and VP were promised cushy jobs and some kickbacks. And Shuster is claiming that this all needs to be privatized because Government isn't moving fast enough to institute changes like NextGen (https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/); except the reason WHY it isn't happening is due to budget cuts PUT IN PLACE BY REPUBLICANS. Doesn't matter, again, the more people make, the more they drink the Republican Kool-Aid, because they want to hold onto every last nickel they earn.

The only candidate who had strong union MEMBER support was Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. Clinton may have had Union BRASS support but, really, that doesn't mean shit. There is a huge difference between elected brass and the actual members in the last several years, as I have seen with my own eyes. Once they are elected into power, they lose all perspective of their union brethren or their purpose. Power corrupts everywhere.

Final caveat: My husband is laughing at the moron NATCA members who voted for Trump, as Trump signed -- on his first day in office -- a Federal pay freeze. Yeah, good luck with that, assholes. Like they didn't learn enough during the HORRORS of the GW Bush administration (who HATED NATCA).

But, yes, the Dems need to fucking shape up. They have been losing support consistently, and they just don't seem to get it. The City of Chicago Dems have had control for DECADES; OVER 5 DECADES; and the City is fucking BROKE, has a terrible crime problem in certain areas, due to the terribly ignored drug sale problem in certain areas, but no Democratic Mayor has really done anything substantial to change that other than to support further coverups and corruption, which just leads to more people questioning the validity of the Democratic party's true motives.


And you know what REALLY FUCKING PISSES ME OFF? WHAT PROBABLY GOT TRUMP ELECTED? THE LACK OF DEMOCRATIC BACKBONE AGAINST LOBBYISTS.

LIKE, LOOK AT THIS FUCKING SHIT: BERNIE SANDERS SLAMS DEMOCRATS FOR LACKING 'GUTS' TO FIGHT BIG PHARMA (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/01/12/sanders-slams-democrats-who-voted-pharmaceutical-industry/96506340/)

Even alleged Progressive Cory Booker VOTED AGAINST THAT BILL. WHAT IN THE LIVING FUCK.

A DOZEN REPUBLICANS VOTED IN FAVOR OF BERNIE'S BILL! BUT THIRTEEN SENATE DEMOCRATS VOTED AGAINST IT! They chose BIG PHARMA over HUMAN BEINGS, claiming faulty BULLSHIT logic like "safety concerns." LIARS.

[october_midnight]

lol @ bozo the clown tweeting a pic of the giant crowd for his inauguration with the wrong date...shows Jan 21st, the date of the marches.

[aggroculture]

There is no way in hell he will be reelected. It is not going to happen. In two years, the democrats will take back the house and senate. If he isn't impeached and removed from office, in four years he will safely lose to the most extreme version of far-left you've ever hypothetically considered.

In the mean time, we need to pressure the ACLU to act, donate actual money to their cause, and start actually signing petitions instead of lazily sharing them on social media. We need to insist that Trump deliver his tax returns, and it's at least somewhat less maddening to hear that Wikileaks is on board with that (fucking finally).

What makes you think that? I thought there was no way the clown GWB could win in 2004, and yet it happened.

Also, nothing Assange can ever do will atone for helping Trump win.

[GulDukat]

Triumph, The Insult Dog, speaks to Trump supporters: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OM7B56xok9M

[elevenism]

Triumph, The Insult Dog, speaks to Trump supporters: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OM7B56xok9M
it was KIND of funny until the end, the end made me laff my ass off

[Your Name Here]

Yeah I posted that in the things that cheer you up thread, the end is funny but at the same time the reality of the joke is sad.

[theimage13]

There is no way in hell he will be reelected.

2015: I'm announcing my candidacy for President of the United States.
There is no way in hell he'll make it through the primaries.
2016: I accept the party's nomination as their candidate for President of the United States.
There is no way in hell he'll be elected.
2017: Congratulations, Mr. President.
There is no way in hell he will be reelected.

Yeah, about that...............

[Demogorgon]

He won't be impeached, regardless. If Congress remains in Republican hands for all 4 years, he's untouchable. If the Democrats regain enough seats at the midterm to stymie him, it'll lead to 2 years of gridlock and then the 2020 elections. If somehow the Democrats gain a huge majority in the midterms, they'll keep him in the chair for the remaining two years just to flex their muscles and make their future candidate for 2020 appear to be the only obvious alternative. Either way, Trump gets 4 years minimum and there isn't anything anyone can do about it. Best case scenario is getting a surge of fresh bodies in Congress during the midterms and hope they have some small sliver of integrity.

[allegro]

Wtf on this: https://www.buzzfeed.com/legacy_mobile/dinograndoni/trump-usda?utm_term=.eeyO141YO#.tcpkbYbMk


USDA Scientists Have Been Put On Lockdown Under Trump
“Starting immediately and until further notice” the department’s main research division “will not release any public-facing documents,” according to an internal memo. "This includes, but is not limited to, news releases, photos, fact sheets, news feeds, and social media content."

Now Trump has issued a total media blackout for both the EPA and the USDA.

Welcome to North Korea. We'll have to start calling him Kim Jong Trump.

[allegro]

He won't be impeached, regardless. If Congress remains in Republican hands for all 4 years, he's untouchable.
Ah, but I'm old enough to remember Nixon, Watergate, and the Abuse of Power allegations, which garnered 10 Republican votes from the House Judiciary Committee, just enough to push Nixon into fearing criminal charges and forcing him to resign.

If anybody is likely to cross the Abuse of Power line, it's Trump.

See this (http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/11/16/reviews/971116.16findert.html). Nixon and Trump are equally vindictive, and that is what brought down Nixon.


These new transcripts make abundantly clear that Watergate indeed sprang from the bitter soil of Nixon's vindictiveness, the longstanding grudges and festering slights and wounds going back decades. Arguably the scandal began in 1971 with the publication of the Pentagon Papers, a classified 7,000-page Defense Department document on the origins and conduct of the Vietnam War that had been obtained by The New York Times. Nixon saw the publication as evidence of a great liberal Democratic Establishment plot against him. And his inability to do anything about it triggered a towering rage.

''We're up against an enemy, a conspiracy,'' he thunders to Haldeman and Henry Kissinger on July 1, 1971, in a newly published transcript. ''They're using any means. We are going to use any means. Is that clear?'' This included dispatching a secret White House team, ''the Plumbers,'' to dig up dirt on Daniel Ellsberg, the former Kissinger aide who said he was the one who had leaked the Pentagon Papers to the press. A few months later the Plumbers broke into the Los Angeles office of Ellsberg's psychiatrist to photograph Ellsberg's records, but found nothing, and left behind a messy crime scene. Since some of the Plumbers were caught breaking into the Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate Hotel a year later, Nixon was understandably frightened that the Watergate investigation would reveal other illegalities, so a cover-up was vital, even if it meant paying the burglars hush money or trying to get the C.I.A. to obstruct the F.B.I.'s investigation using the pretext of national security.

If there were ever serious doubts that Nixon was directly involved in raising the hush money, these new tapes should put them to rest once and for all. There are several conversations here in which Nixon thanks a wealthy contributor, Thomas Pappas, for ''what you're doing to help out on some of these things. . . . I won't say anything further.'' (Nixon's lawyer and Judas, John Dean, called Pappas ''the Greek bearing gifts.'') Later, Nixon asks his longtime secretary, Rose Mary Woods, to reach Pappas and make sure he keeps his mouth shut -- ''I don't want to have anything indicating that I was thanking him for raising money for the Watergate defendants'' -- and cautions her not to talk on the phone.

[...]

His vindictiveness is, at times, comic. ''I'm going to get that Council on Foreign Relations,'' the President sputters. ''I'm going to chop those bastards off right at the neck.'' Furious at The Washington Post, he demands revenge: ''They don't really realize how rough I can play. I've been such a nice guy around here. . . . But when I start, I will kill them.'' He's going to revoke the F.C.C. license of one of the Post-owned television stations and, what's more, ''They're off the guest list, they don't come to the Christmas party.''

And there are his squirmingly embarrassing attempts at expressing affection: ''You're a strong man, goddamn it, and I love you,'' he blurts out over the phone to Haldeman shortly after announcing Haldeman and Ehrlichman's forced resignations. ''I love you, as you know. . . . Like my brother.'' (Haldeman's response: ''O.K.'')

[Sarah K]

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/315974-trump-expected-to-take-executive-action-on-immigration-in-the-coming

Okay... Jesus christ I hope this is not true.

I'm just running out of words at this point. This is all starting out so much worse than what I was anticipating. So, so much worse.

[onthewall2983]

Cory Booker took precious time away from grilling Linda McMahon to mark out a little today.

[cashpiles (closed)]

I was a fool to think Trump could run America well. He won't last. I'm pretty sure. He doesn't truly want to be President for 4 years. Whenever he mentions the work ahead of him, he grimaces.

[allegro]

Shit isn't anywhere near as bad as its probably going to get. elevenism has been telling me that he has had this really bad feeling that things are gonna get scary, but I thought it was just his anxiety talking; now I think it was his intuition talking. It IS gonna get scary, because Trump is fucking STUPID and DEMENTED which is a dangerous combo.

This one will be historic. Luckily, we still have checks and balances but not before Trump creates lots of constitutional carnage.

The GOOD thing is that most of us can say, "don't look at ME! I VOTED FOR HILLARY!" And we can point and laugh at the idiots who were so pro-Trump.

Fucking Romney, it's too bad he sold his soul by meeting with Trump at the end. Because he was right all along and tried to warn everyone.

At least Lindsey Graham's soul is still intact, as is John McCain's and Rand Paul's. So they can work toward stabbing a wooden stake into Trumpula's heart.

Lindsey Graham to Trump: STOP ALLEGING VOTER FRAUD, YOU STUPID TOOL (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/315832-graham-to-trump-stop-lying-about-voter-fraud).

[Sarah K]

I don't understand your question.

But yes. I didn't think that all of this wild shit would be happening in week one. I thought there would be a slow to moderate build up to all of these wild things happening... Not just being slammed with back to back to back shit in a row.

[Sarah K]

I think you are confusing me with someone else.

[allegro]

I don't know that it WILL, but there is certainly the potential. Societal and cultural collapse is continually balancing on the edge. There is catastrophic consequences when it breaks. I'm taking comfort in my decision to acquire/build weaponry and decent "earthquake" supplies. I'll just say that. It's way to emotionally reactionary to be afraid currently, IMO. But it never hurts to be ready.
I have that, plus water and gas and cash. Because Trump is gonna cut off our debit cards and eat them.

[Swykk]

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/315974-trump-expected-to-take-executive-action-on-immigration-in-the-coming

Okay... Jesus christ I hope this is not true.

I'm just running out of words at this point. This is all starting out so much worse than what I was anticipating. So, so much worse.

I can't recall the specific date but I figured it was going to be real awful real fast once the story broke about Paul Ryan telling the House to basically "buckle up" because they planned to hit the ground running.
These evil fucks...

[niggo]

Stupid human mankind makes me so fucking angry. With everything going on right now, I more and more realize that some day I want to live alone, in peace, on an island, and not have to worry about any of this shit. As someone from Europe it's really hard to watch American politics right now; every fucking day another stupid fucking thing. I'm not saying that it's any better over here, or anywhere else for that matter, but to see a nation being divided like this ... it's just crazy. I genuinely believe that people are just fucked up. They pick sides and fight each other and hate each other and there is just so much bullshit floating around I can't even comprehend it. Everything feels so fucking pointless because there will NEVER be agreement.

Ugh. Sorry for the rant. It's probably my own fault, I read way too much comments on YouTube. Makes you honestly lose your faith in humanity.

[Wretchedest]

I wish there was some kind of serious and legitimate opposition. the Democratic party is such a fucking failure

[cashpiles (closed)]

his outright lies delivered through his press secretary and Kellyanne Conway are what scare me. This shows you the level of disinformation and North Korea style reality distortion we'll be getting from Trump.

[allegro]

his outright lies delivered through his press secretary and Kellyanne Conway are what scare me. This shows you the level of disinformation and North Korea style reality distortion we'll be getting from Trump.

See this: Journalists Should Stop Interviewing Kellyanne Conway. (http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/23/journalists-should-stop-interviewing-kellyanne-conway.html)

[allegro]

Everyone is saying this but is it really a new issue? That shit has been happening for ages. The only difference is that Trump's cabinet isn't trying to hide it as much as the last administrations were. Are we all saying "we like it better when our politicians lie to us about their intentions"??

I think what's weird about this shit is the subject matter:

"My inauguration was the BIGGEST IN HISTORY" (no it wasn't, who cares).

"I actually won the popular vote because those Hillary votes were from a bunch of illegal Mexicans" (no, they weren't).

Sends Press Secretary and "Counselor" Conway out to defend His Excellence.

SEE ALSO THIS. (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/arts/television/for-trump-everything-is-a-rating.html?_r=0)

[allegro]

"The F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, told his top agents from around the country that he had been asked by President Trump to stay on the job"
Gee, hmmmm ... and Comey is supposed to be investigating Trump? Hmmmm ...

[Exocet]

Bernie Sanders would have won the election.....the only way the democrats will win in 2020 is if they elect someone truly different. A democratric socialist..im certain Bernie would have won...

If they elect someone like Corey Booker they will loose badly...he will be exposed for the fraud he is...

I dont think the democrat party has enough time to reverse its corrupt ways in 4 years...hopefully by 2024...

[allegro]

It's certainly obnoxious and it triggers people who already dislike him. Maybe that's the goal sometimes? He certainly loves to troll. But it's all pretty trivial compared to Bush's WMDs, for instance.

But maybe the serious stuff is next. Maybe the goal is to desensitize you and wear everyone out in advance. Create so much inconsequential noise in advance. That would be extra effective if he pushed legitimate stuff at the same time so it passes through with less attention. Hell, that's the model he was using quite a bit during the election.
The concern is with his neurotic need to WIN combined with his vindictiveness when he feels he hasn't, and his new position of power and his past display of ignorance of the Constitution.

Power + Ego + Need to Win at Any Cost + No Constitution + Vindictive Nature = ___________

I think it'd be pretty hard to slide anything past anybody at this point, he has so many watchdog organizations up his ass.

[allegro]

Bernie Sanders would have won the election
Maybe.

Sanders didn't have minorities in the bag. He's an old Jewish establishment guy, he's not an Obama. And there is no evidence that he would have swapped out those Trump voters in those Swing States who distrust any Democrat, even if it's a recent Democrat like Bernie, for Trump to lose those Electoral Votes. Obama won two terms because black people actually got out and voted for him; stats are showing that black people mostly didn't even bother leaving the house for this election.

The Democratic Party is a fucking mess. This shit about Russia hacking emails: they published some AWFUL TRUTHS about some STUPID CORRUPT SHIT that the DNC was pulling. And, if Hillary hadn't been "above the law" in creating her own fucking email server, there wouldn't be THAT issue, either. So it wasn't like Wikileaks was publishing total lies; it was publishing truths. Stupid, avoidable, unethical truths. Had they scoured email servers and came up with nothing, however, I still doubt that anybody could convince those Swing States to vote for Hillary, because THE DNC WAS TOO FUCKING ARROGANT AND STUPID TO BOTHER CAMPAIGNING MUCH IN THOSE SWING STATES.

[Demogorgon]

Ron Paul did what Bernie tried to do, grassroots for the disenfranchised, and he did it better. It didn't do him any favors, and he still ended up getting pushed aside by the rampaging bull that is the two-party system.

[Jinsai]

I just didnt understand how, during the election, Trump could be viewed as Hitler v2... but then you are shocked at the bad stuff he is doing in the first few days (that isnt even that bad)... I'd figure you would have expected this stuff if you truly thought he was Hitler v2. That's all.

If it's the rapid deployment, ok i can get that. I'm just not sure it is rapid in context. Trump has a LOT of media scrutiny on him making every little thing well known. Some of it is bullshit (like him "removing" LGBT issues and climate change from the whitehouse website). I don't know how it compares to prior administrations, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Trump is following a similar pace as prior presidents.

I was given shit for comparing his tactics, appeals, and propaganda to the rise of the third reich, framing their approach to be akin to something proto-fascist, but even then I wasn't saying he was Hitler 2. I was saying the similarities should be alarming. We didn't know then if he was just being full of shit and appealing to bigots and xenophobes. Now that he's in office, we're seeing him actually pursue what he promised to do, and so things have only gotten worse, now that we can say that he wasn't just spewing bullshit to get ignorant votes.

[Wretchedest]

As Bernie, himself put it: What does it matter now?

I'm certain if Bernie can't win the next primary either, his most devoted worshippers will drag us down all over again.

I almost hope he doesn't run. we need someone with some serious fire.

[Exocet]

Maybe.

Sanders didn't have minorities in the bag. He's an old Jewish establishment guy, he's not an Obama

Such a shame a 75 year old man full of substance... does not have the same charisma as Obama.....HOPE, CHANGE how has that worked out....

Donald Trump came next....

[allegro]

Such a shame a 75 year old man full of substance... does not have the same charisma as Obama.....HOPE, CHANGE how has that worked out....Donald Trump came next....

Because of the Affordable Care Act.

But plenty of hope and change came about because of 8 years of Obama. One, there was a BLACK DUDE in the White House for 8 years, and that gave a lot of black people hope. It gave a lot of everybody hope; we aren't living in the Jim Crow era, anymore.

We came out of one of the worst recessions in history.

There are literally hundreds of positive changes that resulted from the Obama Presidency.

The problems that the Trump voters complain about aren't from the Obama era; they go back to the EIGHTIES.

You know that Billy Joel song, "Allentown?" That song's from fucking 1982, dude. SEE THIS. (http://www.post-gazette.com/business/businessnews/2012/12/23/In-desperate-1983-there-was-nowhere-for-Pittsburgh-s-economy-to-go-but-up/stories/201212230258)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV2jvngnvqg

GM closed the Flint plant and moved 35,000 workers outside of the US in 1997.
(http://www.nytimes.com/1997/11/22/business/gm-to-close-car-factory-delivering-big-blow-to-flint.html)

[Jinsai]

Journalists are facing felony charges for doing their job - observing and documenting the goddamn news (https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jan/24/journalists-charged-felonies-trump-inauguration-unrest)

The charges will certainly be dropped, but the intended message is delivered and clear: hey press, fuck off.

[allegro]

As Bernie, himself put it: What does it matter now?

Bernie is right, it doesn't matter. What matters is what do we do, now?

Bernie sure is working his ass off in the Senate to hold Trump's feet to the fire, that's for sure.

[Demogorgon]

Bernie sure is working his ass off in the Senate to hold Trump's feet to the fire, that's for sure.

Depending on the issue, though. Bernie was a huge voice against the TPP, and he agrees with Trump on certain things Trump has said about big pharma.

[allegro]

Depending on the issue, though. Bernie was a huge voice against the TPP, and he agrees with Trump on certain things Trump has said about big pharma.

I mean that he is insisting that Trump keep his promises about not cutting Social Security or Medicare or Medicaid (http://time.com/4622703/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-senate-tweet/). "Send out a Tweet (http://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/314387-sanders-trump-should-tweet-that-he-will-keep-campaign-promises)."

And I linked this on the last page (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/01/12/sanders-slams-democrats-who-voted-pharmaceutical-industry/96506340/).

[Volband]

Journalists are facing felony charges for doing their job - observing and documenting the goddamn news (https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jan/24/journalists-charged-felonies-trump-inauguration-unrest)

The charges will certainly be dropped, but the intended message is delivered and clear: hey press, fuck off.
Before anyone comments on this article, they need to educate themselves on the definition of kettling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettling)
Too many people on here have a mental image of these arrests as being simple every day arrests. They're envisioning someone smashing window window in with a rock, a cop seeing them, and arresting them.
That's not how arrests work in these events. Riot police form a large wall near a group of peaceful protesters. If someone in the vicinity throws a rock or damages property, the police make no attempt to simply arrest the perpetrator. Rather, they cordon off a massive area of the street and just round up everyone inside. You could literally not even be involved with the protest. If you're just walking home from work, but happen to be there at the wrong time, you're getting arrested. And if you're unlucky, you'll get charged too. An ambitious prosecutor might just charge everyone arrested with high level rioting charges.
Sure, you could risk it and go to trial, but most people in your case would just take the lenient please deal. Why risk a year or two in jail for a fine and a stint on probation. You may have just been walking home, but now you have a criminal record.

- from reddit

Don't let me stand in the way of fearmongering though, I'm sure those journalists are now in Syberia!!

As Bernie, himself put it: What does it matter now?

I'm certain if Bernie can't win the next primary either, his most devoted worshippers will drag us down all over again.

I almost hope he doesn't run. we need someone with some serious fire.
You, I like! Someone from the opposition with a reasonable tone and perspective.

[slave2thewage]

You, I like! Someone from the opposition with a reasonable tone and perspective.
Weren't you talking about not knowing what to think a few days ago and now you're back to calling Bernie supporters "the opposition"? Dude, if you're an alt-right, you're better off just coming out.

[Volband]

Weren't you talking about not knowing what to think a few days ago and now you're back to calling Bernie supporters "the opposition"? Dude, if you're an alt-right, you're better off just coming out.
The opposition to Trump, not to me, lol. I still do not have a political stance. For whatever it's worth, years ago I did an online test, which told me I am mostly liberal thinking, but link me one or a few tests which you believe are a reliable indicator about my political feelings and pinky promise I will share the results with everyone, whether it says I am pure fascist or communist. :D

But nice of you to facepalm me before you even let me sort out this misunderstanding. What I said was misunderstandable, I give you that, but you just assumed the worst before even asking and went with it. It is a tad bit ironic, if you ask me - which you don't.

[Volband]

FUCK!!! :D

I just finished isidewith.com's test about the 2016 candidates, answering most, but not all questions.

I'm 38% Donald Trump, 46% Gary Johnson, 50% Jill Stein and fucking 72% Hillary.

I did another survey, which gave me this useless piece of crap:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/chart?ec=-5.13&soc=-1.08

See, turns out we are technically on the same side, except I have no vigorous need to stamp everyone whom I mark as a threat out of fear and/or insecurity. That kind of behavior only causes disdain and alienation, and it is the exact behavior I've seen through countless media platforms from Hillary supporters which would've eventually made me stay home instead of voting for her. Don't get me wrong, Trump fans were and are extremely ignorant, their shallowness was frowned upon by me, but the amount of viciousness and double-standard the other, supposed rational side showcased put me off big time. Then of course, right after the loss - kudos to the exceptions - you performed some A+ drama theater performance, basically getting on your knees crying like a hyena while fisting Trump's legs, instead of admitting how screwed up the whole Hillary campaign was.
Even now, some of think the most important thing to discuss is figuring out how in 2020, when Trump will SURELY LOSE (you know, like he surely lost in 2016), how damaged he will make the country out of spite. This is the definition of ignorance. Sure, if I was a Democrat, I'd be devastated as well the following few weeks of the defeat, but instead of fear mongering, I'd look ahead while reassessing the situation. First of all, a goddamn moron got elected, how is that possible? Well, on one hand the country must have a large population of dense and/or gullible people, but that can not be a satisfying answer. If you don't reach to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe you are part of the problem, and things needed to be changed in order to be not defeated by simpletons, then no amount of protesting or marches going to help you out. You can point fingers at the Russians, you can bitch about the popular vote (isn't that system 100s of years old? suddenly it's a problem NOW?) and spread flyers across the country of an utopystic future where Trump will eat your children while laughing like a maniac with dwarf hands OR you can stop being insufferably obnoxious and be part of, or hell, even a frontier of a progressive Democrat movement. Even if it is not genuine, everyone is a sucker for a motto like "we screwed up, but now we are here to help!!" instead of "OH MY GOD, WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE, WTF YOU ALT-RIGHT IMBECILE FUCKERS, HOLY SHIT, IM LEAVING THE COUNTRY, WTF".

For example, look at Jinsai's last post. He reads the news, puts together a conspiracy theory in his head, and post it is facts. Trump is out to get you and arrest your ass if you even dare to be on his inaug... ingau... jesus fuck, so on his you know what. Okay, so that's the Democratic way.
Meanwhile me, a continent aside, not giving much shit about any of this, browsing le reddit when find this news at the top of All. First top comment literally explains that it is a well-known riot procedure, provides source as well. Second top post says even a pro-Trump journalist was arrested. See, I didn't do anything and others put stuff in front of me to use critical thinking.

Am I saying @Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) is wrong? No, we can only make educated guesses, right? I do think he is wrong, as it just makes no sense to trample journalists before anyone could write anything bad about the ceremony, and given how it was recorded via a million cameras, arresting 4 journalists would hardly stop word getting out that there weren't many people there. But hey, maybe the first two top comments there were paid people, and the wikipedia article about kettling is made up and no such thing exists; it's possible, eerything is possible. All I would expect from the people of the party that suffered an embarassing defeat from a clown is to not repeat the same idiotic approach they had during the campaign. "Trump will not win. He will not. Trump winning impossible. He will not win, chill. Hail the first female president of the USA! Trump is a loser. Trump won." which has earie similiraty with "omg, they are imprisoning our journalists!! free speech = O V E R", and by the time will start doing actual, serious damage (he will at some point, I have no doubt about that), people just won't give a fuck, because some people just bitch about everything ,even if 80% of their story was made up in their head.

See, this is why I said I really like @Wretchedest (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=107)'s style and approach (and name!!). Collected, calm, planning for the future. But expressing these warm feelings of mine towards this most likely handsome gentleman only resulted with me being called an alt-rightist by someone whose 80% of views probably allign with mine.

*drops mic*

[botley]

^ Incoherent nonsense; I had friends who were kettled by RCMP at the Toronto G20 summit and if that is 'standard riot procedure' then God help you poor unsuspecting fucks.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sX0BbLc_PIk

AND THEY'RE GONNA PAY FOR IT (http://wdoc.house.leg.state.mn.us/leg/LS90/HF0322.0.pdf)!

[Louie_Cypher]

gag order on epa climate change data being wiped, call you elected official
-louie

[Deepvoid]

More news from the WH. (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/315990-breitbarts-influence-grows-inside-white-house)

Two Breitbart staffers will join the West Wing.
Julia Hahn will be Bannon's aide and Breitbart's national security editor will allegedly be on the National Security Council.

Also this fun fact.
Yesterday, Press Secretary awarded the first question to Laura Ingraham's blog LifeZette.
Lots of journalists were pissed off apparently.
The blog is considered by many to be a fake news website pushing conspiracy theories and whatnot.

[theimage13]

I'm buying stock in every major pharma manufacturer that makes blood pressure and anti-anxiety meds. Gonna be a fucking billionaire soon.

[Volband]

I recently watched John Oliver's video about ID and voting, which seems ever so relevant right now. It's interesting to see some people getting furious and saying this will hinder Trump's opposition.

First of all, how on Earth was it not required already?! In here, if you don't have your ID, then you are nobody, it is required basically everywhere. John Oliver argued that getting an ID is extremely tedious, like an ID office is being open 5 times a YEAR and such nonsense, but to me it just screams that you need to change that then. ID should be required at any voting, everywhere, and bureucracy should not hinder anyone from getting an ID within a week at worst.

Here, if you lose your ID or something, you go to the officials, they take a photo of you and hand you a temporary ID (in a big paper) untl you don't get your card. It's mind-boggling how such an easy feat can't be done in the USA.

^ Incoherent nonsense; I had friends who were kettled by RCMP at the Toronto G20 summit and if that is 'standard riot procedure' then God help you poor unsuspecting fucks.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sX0BbLc_PIk

AND THEY'RE GONNA PAY FOR IT (http://wdoc.house.leg.state.mn.us/leg/LS90/HF0322.0.pdf)!
So what, something happened years ago which had nothing to do with Trump and you link a 40 minutes long video where I assume the police was not nice with the protesters who couldn't have hurt a fly. By the way, have you ever seen a video, where a protester said "yeah, some of the fellas in our group were major dumbasses, that's why the police barricaded us. real stupid from those fellas"?

Also, I never expected my message to be conveyable by everyone. As I said, some people like to cut the tree under themselves, so if you want to continue with the mentality that ended with an embarassing defeat, no one is stopping you. Ride the high horse to the end.

[allegro]

Threatened to send Feds into Chicago: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/824080766288228352 (you ready @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76)?)

G and I have been asking when or if this would happen for a long time, actually.

[allegate]

Nobody will succeed. It's not even an option anymore. We had a Civil War and that got pulled off the table. Even if it were, the consequences are too great even for a state like CA. I'd leave CA so fast if they did do it.


I don't know what will happen, but if I HAD to bet: it'll be like another 8 years under Bush to the left. The left won't achieve any traction for about 4 years (they are fucked for the upcoming midterms). Then, we start seeing establishment Dems back in power because the left hasn't figured out how to change the Dem party.

The end.

It's basically the opposite of what I want to see happen.Well shit man. lol


There is no way in hell he will be reelected. It is not going to happen. In two years, the democrats will take back the house and senate. If he isn't impeached and removed from office, in four years he will safely lose to the most extreme version of far-left you've ever hypothetically considered.

In the mean time, we need to pressure the ACLU to act, donate actual money to their cause, and start actually signing petitions instead of lazily sharing them on social media. We need to insist that Trump deliver his tax returns, and it's at least somewhat less maddening to hear that Wikileaks is on board with that (fucking finally).

Four months ago he was 'safely' going to be defeated in a massive landslide. So I'd say it's a little early to be tooting any kind of horn, let alone a fucking kazoo.

[allegro]

I recently watched John Oliver's video about ID and voting, which seems ever so relevant right now. It's interesting to see some people getting furious and saying this will hinder Trump's opposition.

First of all, how on Earth was it not required already?! In here, if you don't have your ID, then you are nobody
You are required to sign a document when you register to vote, and you must present three forms of ID when you register, including photo ID. When you vote, you must sign a document and the Juror at the polling location compares your signature to the one they have on file. One time, I signed a little too fast and it didn't exactly match and three other Jurors had to deliberate as to whether or not that was my signature and they had me re-sign, and I passed. If I didn't, I would THEN have to show ID.

The reason why we frown on I.D.s is due to a history of discrimination against black people, where voting Jurors rejected those IDs or requested too many forms of IDs and ultimately rejected the voter. Before the Voters Rights Act, polls in the south would require TESTS before black people could be able to vote. Also, old people who do not drive cars generally no longer maintain a current driver's license and have no need for a photo ID, and are now being rejected at the polls in states requiring photo IDs, even though they had an ID when they registered and their signature is on record.

Also, when you vote, your vote is tallied and nobody else can then come in and show your signature; in that district, there is one sheet with your information on it and when you vote, that sheet is removed from the log and is placed in a container of information of voters who already voted.

It all works, really.

We currently have 146.3 million registered voters.

Your entire POPULATION is 9.987. million.

The states can't afford to give everybody a picture voter's ID; people move too much, photo IDs are too expensive, etc. When you register, you get a paper Voter ID, but I've never been asked to produce it, ever. Probably because they're way too easy to duplicate/forge.

[allegate]

Wait...there's a freeze for federal workers but he's hiring people from Breitbart? Sonofabitch.

Also that totally killed my promotion plans. Thanks Obama. Wait...

[allegro]

Wait...there's a freeze for federal workers
I guess it doesn't include national security jobs, so Air Traffic Controllers and Military and Homeland Security etc. aren't affected.

[Deepvoid]

See the voter ID thing in Canada is a non-issue since we all have health insurance ID cards issued by the Government.
If you are going to have a mandatory voter ID law, I think it would be the State's responsibility to make sure that, every citizen who is eligible to vote, is being provided with such ID.

But from what I've read, Republicans have made it super difficult to get IDs in some rural areas.
So I get why people are against voter ID despite the fact that it's makes so much sense to have an ID when you vote.

[Aladdinsanity]

I'm sick of people whining about how it hurts poor people from exercising their rights. You know what else is a codified right? Gun ownership. You know how much time and money you have to spend in some of these states to get a gun? Yeah, that hurts poor people who want to exercise that right too but the Dem states don't give a shit about that. It's only when their potential voters might be impacted. Fuck them.
So wow, much edgy.

[allegro]

Make the voters pay for it. Either directly or via taxes.
Don't be a moron. You can't compare fucking GUN OWNERSHIP to the right to VOTE. What the fuck is WRONG with you? A gun can kill. A vote is a fucking VOTE. You have to take two tests and pay for a driver's license, too, because a car can kill people. Jesus Christ, learn the meaning of the laws.

The 2nd Amendment clearly states "well regulated." Requiring people to take tests or apply for a permit is the very definition of "regulated."

If the Government provides free photo voter IDs and they to go to everybody and it has to be FEDERALLY run, not state run, fine. If the State is involved, you're gonna have that "no Negroes" shit that happens down south.

These are the states with non-ID voter requirements. (http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-verification-without-id-documents.aspx)

[allegate]

Thanks to Trump, Scientists Are Planning to Run For Office (https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/01/thanks-to-trump-scientists-are-planning-to-run-for-office/514229/)
For American science, the next four years look to be challenging. The newly inaugurated President Trump, and many of his Cabinet picks, have repeatedly cast doubt upon the reality of human-made climate change, questioned the repeatedly proven safety of vaccines. Since the inauguration, the administration has already frozen grants and contracts by the Environmental Protection Agency and gagged researchers at the US Department of Agriculture. Many scientists are asking themselves: What can I do?
And the answer from a newly formed group called 314 Action is: Get elected.


The organization, named after the first three digits of pi, is a political action committee that was created to support scientists in running for office. It’s the science version of Emily’s List, which focuses on pro-choice female candidates, or VoteVets, which backs war veterans. “A lot of scientists traditionally feel that science is above politics but we’re seeing that politics is not above getting involved in science,” says founder Shaughnessy Naughton. “We’re losing, and the only way to stop that is to get more people with scientific backgrounds at the table.”

[allegro]

Sooo. Paid for by taxes just like I said.

Duh, yes, if the Federal Government provides it, then magic ID fairies certainly aren't going to pay for it. But that covers poor people and senior citizens on fixed incomes.

You're need to be right is a lot like that orange-haired dude in the Oval Office right now. And I mean "right" in more than one way. *snort*

Wisconsin gives out free voter ID cards (the state pays for them, duh). (http://county.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibrary/Groups/cntyAging/docs/Voter-ID/senior-citizen-voter-photo-id-fact-sheet.pdf)

But, that's WISCONSIN. Many counties in North Carolina were found to have been deliberately ("with surgical precision") denying voting rights to black people.

The bottom of the WI form is interesting:


If you don’t have the required documents to prove U.S. Citizenship, name and date of
birth, and/or legal name change, you can still get a free ID, but you must:
Be a U.S. Citizen, indicate that the ID card is required free of charge for the purposes of
voting; and fill out a short form claiming that documents required to prove U.S. Citizenship,
name and date of birth and/or legal name change are unavailable and require a fee to a
government agency to obtain.

That's good, because for really old people, it's sometimes damned near impossible to get a certified birth certificate because some were born in counties where their records were destroyed that far back or the records are just a fucking mess.

I deal with this sometimes in law, it's a joke.

[Mantra]

If it's the rapid deployment, ok i can get that. I'm just not sure it is rapid in context. Trump has a LOT of media scrutiny on him making every little thing well known. Some of it is bullshit (like him "removing" LGBT issues and climate change from the whitehouse website). I don't know how it compares to prior administrations, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Trump is following a similar pace as prior presidents.

I've actually been wondering about this a lot. I've always had the impression of U.S. politics moving at a really slow pace, which I've often found a bit frustrating. I remember Obama using some metaphor that running the country wasn't like driving a speed boat, but more like trying to steer a big barge (or something like that). This was one of the few things giving me a tiny amount of comfort. "Well, maybe the slow bureaucracy will make things harder for him." But it seems like he's just blazing through all these massive changes. Is he just disregarding a bunch of stuff that previous president's did not? That wouldn't surprise me. Or is it, like you said, that it just feels this way cause we get a news update every time he blinks? I don't know, but I keep thinking "Hey! how come Obama couldn't just ram all this stuff through???!?!?!"

[allegro]

I've actually been wondering about this a lot. I've always had the impression of U.S. politics moving at a really slow pace, which I've often found a bit frustrating. I remember Obama using some metaphor that running the country wasn't like driving a speed boat, but more like trying to steer a big barge (or something like that). This was one of the few things giving me a tiny amount of comfort. "Well, maybe the slow bureaucracy will make things harder for him." But it seems like he's just blazing through all these massive changes. Is he just disregarding a bunch of stuff that previous president's did not? That wouldn't surprise me. Or is it, like you said, that it just feels this way cause we get a news update every time he blinks? I don't know, but I keep thinking "Hey! how come Obama couldn't just ram all this stuff through???!?!?!"

Ocean Liner.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8dI0b9h5rA

The ban on foreign aid to groups that provide abortion counseling (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/23/world/trump-ban-foreign-aid-abortions.html) (known as the "Mexico City Policy") is something that every President does pretty quickly, undoing the prior EO; Obama undid GW Bush's EO; GW Bush undid Clinton's EO; Clinton undid Reagan's EO.

From Wikipedia:


One of the first acts by the Obama administration after assuming control was an order signed by Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel that suspended all pending federal regulations proposed by outgoing President George W. Bush so that they could be reviewed. This was comparable to prior moves by the Bush Administration upon assuming control from Bill Clinton, who in his final 20 days in office issued 12 executive orders.

Due to the economic crisis, the President enacted a pay freeze for senior White House staff making more than $100,000 per year. The action affected approximately 120 staffers and added up to about a $443,000 savings for the United States government.

Obama also announced stricter guidelines regarding lobbyists in an effort to raise the ethical standards of the White House. The new policy bans aides from attempting to influence the administration for at least two years if they leave his staff. It also bans aides on staff from working on matters they have previously lobbied on, or to approach agencies that they targeted while on staff. Their ban also included a gift-giving ban. However, one day later he nominated William J. Lynn III, a lobbyist for defence contractor Raytheon, for the position of Deputy Secretary of Defense. Obama later nominated William Corr, an anti-tobacco lobbyist, for Deputy Secretary of Health and Human Services.

In his first week in office, President Obama signed an executive order suspending all the ongoing proceedings of Guantanamo military commission and ordering that the detention facility would be shut down within the year. He also signed an order requiring the Army Field Manual to be used as guide for terror interrogations, banning torture and other illegal coercive techniques, such as waterboarding. Obama also issued an executive order entitled "Ethics Commitments by Executive Branch Personnel," setting stricter limitations on incoming executive branch employees and placing tighter restrictions on lobbying in the White House. Obama signed two Presidential Memoranda concerning energy independence, ordering the Department of Transportation to establish higher fuel efficiency standards before 2011 models are released and allowing states to raise their emissions standards above the national standard. He also ended the Mexico City Policy, which banned funds to international groups that provide abortion services or counselling.

In his first week he also established a policy of producing a weekly Saturday morning video address available on Whitehouse.gov and YouTube, much like those released during his transition period. The first address had been viewed by 600,000 YouTube viewers by the next afternoon. The policy is likened to Franklin Delano Roosevelt's fireside chats and George W. Bush's weekly radio addresses.

The first piece of legislation signed by Obama was the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act on January 29, which promoted fair pay regardless of gender, race, or age. Lilly Ledbetter joined Obama and his wife, Michelle, as he signed the bill, fulfilling his campaign pledge to nullify Ledbetter v. Goodyear.

[botley]

So what, something happened years ago which had nothing to do with Trump and you link a 40 minutes long video where I assume the police was not nice with the protesters who couldn't have hurt a fly. By the way, have you ever seen a video, where a protester said "yeah, some of the fellas in our group were major dumbasses, that's why the police barricaded us. real stupid from those fellas"?

Also, I never expected my message to be conveyable by everyone. As I said, some people like to cut the tree under themselves, so if you want to continue with the mentality that ended with an embarassing defeat, no one is stopping you. Ride the high horse to the end.

You are babbling utter nonsense and profess to have gleaned your understanding of how militarized police detain crowds in protests from a fucking Reddit comment. Please by all means continue telling me how to respond to that.

[Demogorgon]

Anyone watching the press conference? He's actually doing it. He's actually building the wall.

[allegro]

I don't think many Americans realize that he's using the Secure Fence Act of 2006 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006) (approved by then-Senator Obama) to do it.

[Deepvoid]

Mark this one down on your calendar. "Trump Wall" day #1 - January 25, 2017.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316089-trump-construction-on-border-wall-will-begin-in-months


When will they start building it? Trump said: "I would say in months".
Or to be more precise. “As soon as we can. As soon as we can physically do it,” he said when asked when construction will begin.
(Taking cue from Trent, Mr. Trump?)

When will Mexico reimburse the US? Trump said the US will be “reimbursed at a later date.” and "I'm just telling you there will be a payment".

Now, let's have some fun imaginary bets on when that wall will be completed and when will Mexico completely reimburse the costs incurred by the US gov.
I say ... never and ... well you guessed it .. never.

[telee.kom]

It's refreshing to see a politician to make good on their promises. No matter what I think about these ideas, he's doing what he said he would be doing. Can't really blame him for that

[Sarah K]

She called you a moron for bringing the gun fetish into a discussion about voting.

[Sallos]

It's refreshing to see a politician to make good on their promises. No matter what I think about these ideas, he's doing what he said he would be doing. Can't really blame him for that

my thoughts exactly. and in such a short period of time.

[Baphomette]

I don't think many Americans realize that he's using the Secure Fence Act of 2006 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006) (approved by then-Senator Obama) to do it.
Signed into law by Dubya. $1.2B allocated and already used. The act did not include forcing another country into paying for it.

[allegro]

Signed into law by Dubya. $1.2B allocated and already used. The act did not include forcing another country into paying for it.

He ain't gonna get Mexico to pay for it, that's total bullshit. We CAN'T get Mexico to pay for it. Impossible.

The Repugs are gonna push through a measure in Congress for more funding for the Fence Act. Which they've been trying to do since they ran out of money.

But Mexico has already told Trump to fuck off.

Trump is probably thinking "trade tariffs" to offset the cost of the wall, that's what I'm thinking.

[allegro]

I prefer to refer to both as constitutionally codified rights. So it's pretty moronic to compare either to "driving a car"
No it isn't.

We require people to get a license, even if they are poor, because a car is a heavy and dangerous vehicle.

And a gun is regulated per the 2nd Amendment, because a gun is dangerous and because the military wants to have more guns than civilians.

But our founding fathers never foresaw the need for Photo IDs when voting. That ain't in the Constitution.

[allegro]

... you realize that's Mexico "paying for the wall" right? Just like a taxpayer funded Voter ID system is "the people paying for voter ID"

tarrifs are taxes

IF he does that .. did he SAY he was going to do that? Trade tariffs? Which we don't have, yet? Which I don't know if he can even DO via an EO?

If you want me off this board, bud, that's fine. I ain't playing this fucking passive aggressive game with you.

[Demogorgon]

IF he does that .. did he SAY he was going to do that? Trade tariffs? Which we don't have, yet? Which I don't know if he can even DO via an EO?

If you want me off this board, bud, that's fine. I ain't playing this fucking passive aggressive game with you.

Except he's right though. Trump's been telling auto workers to make cars here or else pay huge to have them brought across the border. What better way to get Mexico to pay for it than to charge them more to send goods here? We know all about what Trump SAYS; we know next to nothing about what he DOESN'T say. Everyone just seems to take it for granted that he's going to boast about every single thing he does, but... what if he doesn't?

[Sallos]

It's true. It seems completely foreign to have a president actually follow through with his campaign promises. So he gets credit there. Using EO's is still bad, but hey Obama used tons of them.


Also, you have to admit how well our system of governmental change works. If someone told you 20 years ago that a black man would be president and then Donald Trump would be.... you would never believe them. But that shit happened, and it happened without a single drop of blood being spilled. That's the amazing part. No violence. No blood.

Yet we keep hearing how the democratic process needs a change after this "incident" and brexit. Specially here in Europe, where we like to pretend we have a healthier democratic system, even though we make countries keep voting in referendums till the bureaucrats in Brussels get what they want.

[allegro]

Except he's right though. Trump's been telling auto workers to make cars here or else pay huge to have them brought across the border. What better way to get Mexico to pay for it than to charge them more to send goods here? We know all about what Trump SAYS; we know next to nothing about what he DOESN'T say. Everyone just seems to take it for granted that he's going to boast about every single thing he does, but... what if he doesn't?

I'm not against tariffs. (Although, a lot of economists are.)

But Trump didn't say tariffs would pay for the wall.

I just did. Guessing that's his "creative" way to get reimbursed. (Trump hasn't said anything other than he will have a "creative" way to get the reimbursement.)

Then Asshole told me what a tariff is.

Mexico won't be giving us a check for the wall, as people are envisioning; tariffs or a VAT would be more likely ("creative").

[Demogorgon]

I'm not against tariffs.

But Trump didn't say tariffs would pay for the wall.

I just did. Guessing that's his "creative" way to get reimbursed.

Then Asshole told me what a tariff is.

I'm not going to get involved in whatever you guys have going on, that's between you two. But the "tariffs" idea is something I've heard more than once from different people, and I'm surprised it's not being considered more seriously.

All I'm saying is that, just like during the election, a lot of people aren't taking Trump seriously, and regardless of his twitter rants, maybe that's how he wanted it all along. I think it's going to be very important for everyone to focus less on what he says, and more on what he actually does.

[allegro]

A VAT is more likely than a tariff. Economists seem to be more worried about tariffs than a VAT. Trump announces things in stages, for the Big Reveal Suspense.

I always took Trump very seriously.

[Demogorgon]

A VAT is more likely than a tariff. Economists seem to be more worried about tariffs than a VAT.

Honestly, I mean "tariff" in a broad sense. My global economics is a bit rusty, so I'm sure there are similar but better ways to accomplish it than just a tariff. A VAT would be just one of those possibilities, I'd imagine.

[hellospaceboy]

Also, you have to admit how well our system of governmental change works. If someone told you 20 years ago that a black man would be president and then Donald Trump would be.... you would never believe them. But that shit happened, and it happened without a single drop of blood being spilled. That's the amazing part. No violence. No blood.

No violence? What about that Starbucks window?!?!

[allegro]

Honestly, I mean "tariff" in a broad sense. My global economics is a bit rusty, so I'm sure there are similar but better ways to accomplish it than just a tariff. A VAT would be just one of those possibilities, I'd imagine.

The WaPo article that Asshole linked is pretty good ("border adjustment"): https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/yes-trump-can-make-mexico-pay-for-the-border-wall-heres-how/2017/01/17/7edf7872-dcbf-11e6-ad42-f3375f271c9c_story.html?utm_term=.8090df80cec9

[Louie_Cypher]

will never get buillt costs logistics, will be a long stretch of nothing to be known as "trumps folly"
-louie

[Jinsai]

It's refreshing to see a politician to make good on their promises.

Refreshing?!?! There's a lot of words that come to mind to describe this first week of Trump's fascist kakistocracy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakistocracy), but "refreshing" isn't one of them.

[telee.kom]

What fascist thing Trump did exactly?

[allegate]

will never get buillt costs logistics, will be a long stretch of nothing to be known as "trumps folly"
-louie

The next Bridge to Nowhere?

[Louie_Cypher]

think he should get Russia to pay for the investigation. While they are investigating, maybe they can find the 1.3 million invisible people at the inauguration.
-louie

[Louie_Cypher]

What fascist thing Trump did exactly?
how abou thegaggingorder onthe EPA,deletingclimate changedataneed more examples
-louie

[Demogorgon]

how abou thegaggingorder onthe EPA

For one, this isn't permanent. For another, it only limits press information, not scientific journals and articles.


deleting climate change data

Removing it from the website (which, again, we don't know if it's permanent or not) isn't deleting that data from existence or censoring it across the entire internet. You are reaching very, very far here.


need more examples

Some RELEVANT examples would help, yes, because none of the above is fascism at all. It's underhanded and probably bordering on (if not indeed) unethical, but not fascist.

[Aladdinsanity]

All I'm saying is that, just like during the election, a lot of people aren't taking Trump seriously, and regardless of his twitter rants, maybe that's how he wanted it all along. I think it's going to be very important for everyone to focus less on what he says, and more on what he actually does.
He's doing what he said he would, though.

I don't understand how people are acting as though Trump is playing 4D chess. He's old, boorish and lacks the capacity to empathize with society at large since he's been able to get by his entire life without that trait. Top this off with the fact that we may be seeing him develop dementia in real time.

[Aladdinsanity]

What fascist thing Trump did exactly?
Well, he's banning entry of any Muslim who happens to be from any of the countries that the United States happens to be bombing the shit out of atm. Exceptions made for anyone from those countries who are of a persecuted religious minority LOLJK I mean Christian.

[Demogorgon]

That's sort of my point, though. Trump says all sorts of things, and a lot of it is just blowing hot air. But when it comes down to getting things done... he's really getting things done, whether anyone likes it or not. I'm the last person to try and make some sort of absurd claim that the man is somehow a genius, but one thing he does know is how to manipulate people's emotional centers in a way that makes it nearly impossible for them to focus on what he's actually doing. He's still a successful businessman after all is said and done, and bait-and-switch misdirection tactics are the everyday reality of corporate shark tank culture.

[Jinsai]

What fascist thing Trump did exactly?

Gagging and demonizing the free press for reporting news that he deems unfavorable out of spite, and smearing any criticism with the insinuation that the outlet is "fake" or not legitimate. Pathological and intentional distortion of the truth, especially in matters regarding his stature, authority, and personal greatness. Ordering the EPA, government employed scientists, and national parks to censor their communications with the public, press, and social media. Rallying his supporters around xenophobic scaremongering and demonizing of the "other" while projecting jingoistic appeals to hyper-nationalism. Glorifying masculinity by aligning with alt-right propagandists who codify their language to mock opposition for lacking in manliness. Appealing to the notion of a lost "golden era" and hyperbolically bemoaning the broken, destitute state of the country - condensed into his campaign slogan. His endorsement of torture techniques, "going after the families," "kick their ass," "make our military so strong nobody will mess with us," and "bomb the shit out of them" project strength through violence and force. Speaking to outlets, critics, and politicians in a lecturing but threatening tone. Assigning people to positions of power that have conflicts of interest with corporate entities. Framing himself as a victim of persecution from the elite (ironically) and a corrupt political system that is united against him, whereas he is the only answer that can save the country from sure destruction. He endears himself as an outsider voice of the downtrodden common man, bolstering his candidacy by referencing his success as a business man beholden to no one as an iconic cult leader. Framing his campaign in a theatrical, ostentatious showboating manner. Shaming and purging political players that he perceives as disloyal. Defining his campaign as a movement. Nationalistic praise of the military. Defending authoritarian overreach by the police in a manner that denotes patriotic pride. Insisting upon absolute hyper-loyalty to the state as a leading priority. Did you catch his scaremongering hyper-nationalist inauguration speech? Really, "American carnage?" Questioning the authority of the law to assess him fairly due to him being persecuted and treated with bias. Use of superlative rhetoric to either demonize or glorify everything.

Some of those things there are just aspects that note a characteristic similarity when taking in the full picture of this administration, but some would be conventional and visible in other political groups when isolated. Really though, the most damning hallmark, and the only one you'd need to answer your question, is the silencing/delegitimizing of the press and the gag order for all government agencies.

[theimage13]

But our founding fathers never foresaw the need for Photo IDs when voting. That ain't in the Constitution.


prooobably because they bound voting rights to property ownership.

proooobably because photographs literally did not exist then.

[cahernandez]

Guys, the wall it's a pretty stupid idea, it won't stop illegal immigration, and it will run your country quite the bill, leaving you in huge debt (legally speaking, from what I've read, it'll be REALLY HARD for the US to 'make' Mexico pay for the wall):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_P9PR5ckFk

[Louie_Cypher]

well tiny hands it's on http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/01/donald-trump-is-still-using-his-unsecured-android-phone.html
-louie

[Bachy]

Trump won't last. Time will feed upon his weaknesses, and soon he'll lose the will to care. And when he returns to that place that he calls home, we will be there. We will be there.

[allegro]

proooobably because photographs literally did not exist then.

Neither did AR-15s but the NRA still thinks our founding fathers intuited civilian need for them.

[allegro]

Guys, the wall it's a pretty stupid idea, it won't stop illegal immigration, and it will run your country quite the bill, leaving you in huge debt (legally speaking, from what I've read, it'll be REALLY HARD for the US to 'make' Mexico pay for the wall).
It won't be a wall, it's a double fence with razor wires and cameras (a modern wall with technology) that will cost billions, but you should read that WaPo article. Interesting stuff.

[allegro]

That's sort of my point, though. Trump says all sorts of things, and a lot of it is just blowing hot air. But when it comes down to getting things done... he's really getting things done, whether anyone likes it or not. I'm the last person to try and make some sort of absurd claim that the man is somehow a genius, but one thing he does know is how to manipulate people's emotional centers in a way that makes it nearly impossible for them to focus on what he's actually doing. He's still a successful businessman after all is said and done, and bait-and-switch misdirection tactics are the everyday reality of corporate shark tank culture.
Not in commercial real estate development. Which is primarily what he does. Commercial real estate is not shark tank. Trust me. Been in it for nearly 30 years.

Trump ain't bait and switch or slight of hand. Sometimes he buys time with total bullshit that never materializes ("I will provide the answer to how we will wipe out ISIS." When? "Next Tuesday." Tuesday comes and goes, nothing). Sometimes he has a "plan" but he won't share it so nobody will steal his plan, so he rolls it out in installments. That's TV Ratings Trump; wait for the commercial, milk it for several episodes.


He's doing what he said he would, though.

I don't understand how people are acting as though Trump is playing 4D chess. He's old, boorish and lacks the capacity to empathize with society at large since he's been able to get by his entire life without that trait. Top this off with the fact that we may be seeing him develop dementia in real time.
This. This this this.

[Louie_Cypher]

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/7668986/billy-bragg-bob-dylan-times-they-are-a-changin-anti-trump?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily&utm_term=daily_digest
-louie

[Louie_Cypher]

it's his daddies money he did nothing on his own nothing
-louie

[Mantra]

Anybody watching this ABC interview? Christ.

[Louie_Cypher]

hey tiny hands we're laughing at you not with you, your a bad joke, loser
-louie

[Louie_Cypher]

i bwt ole spicer is regretting his career choices
-louie

[Mantra]

So heart warming to see him talking about how effective torture is. What a great guy.

[allegro]

I've only seen Intel reports indicating that torture DOESN'T work (people tell you bullshit to get you to stop torturing them). Either he's lying or people are blowing smoke up his ass or he asked the Spanish-speaking housekeeper if torture works and she didn't understand English and said "si" and that's the only confirmation Trump needed.

[Mantra]

He claims that he asked various generals/intelligence leaders and that they swear by it.

[Jinsai]

He claims that he asked various generals/intelligence leaders and that they swear by it.

He also makes shit up more often than he tells the truth.

[allegro]

He claims that he asked various generals/intelligence leaders and that they swear by it.

Generals aren't the ones torturing. The CIA is generally doing the torturing.

Trump said he spoke with "people" about torture.

He also said that he'd rely on Pompeo and Mattis (http://indianexpress.com/article/world/trump-says-torture-works-but-will-follow-cia-pentagon-advice-4492221/).



But he said he would rely on the advice of Pentagon chief James Mattis and Central Intelligence Agency director Mike Pompeo.

"I’m going to go with what they say,” Trump told ABC. “And if they don’t want to do, that’s fine. If they do wanna do, then I will work toward that end. I want to do everything within the bounds of what you’re allowed to do legally.”

“But do I feel it works? Absolutely, I feel it works.”

A Trump spokesman said the draft seen by the newspaper did not originate at the White House.

In February 2016, Trump said “torture works” and pledged to bring back waterboarding and “much worse.”

However, in December, after meeting with Mattis, Trump said he was “impressed” with Mattis’s argument that building trust and rewarding cooperation by detainees worked better than waterboarding.

During his confirmation hearing before a Senate committee, Pompeo promised he would “absolutely not” comply with any order to revive the “enhanced interrogation techniques” employed by the CIA after 9/11.

[allegro]

All this voter fraud shit that Trump is spewing came from a pro golfer who's not a US Citizen but who tried to vote. Cool story, bro.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-trump-voter-fraud-bernhard-langer-20170125-story.html

[Jinsai]

ProPublica staying strong with the solid analytical reporting: The mood is dark as Trump takes over the environmental agency he pledged to reduce to “little tidbits.” (https://www.propublica.org/article/trumps-team-at-epa-vetting-controversial-public-meetings-and-presentations)

[baudolino]

a new day and IT is still "president"?! inconceivable.

btw IT stands for Indubitable not Imbecile Trump!

[Louie_Cypher]

this whole voter fraud is about voter suppression, stay awake it starts with voter fraud then you no longer have voting rights
-louie

[botley]

His lawyers are pretty heavy-hitters. He has teams of lawyers to get away with shit. It's why people here in Cook County are pissed at how he keeps getting huge property tax reductions at his Trump building in Chicago without including profit valuation in the property assessment (which is customary for everybody else) and has politicians in his pocket, even DEMS.
In other words (https://thenib.com/emoluments-clause-donald-trump)

[allegro]

In other words (https://thenib.com/emoluments-clause-donald-trump)

Pretty much, yeah.

[Louie_Cypher]

instead of wining about the results, how about the we do it over how about that you tiny handed little bitch
-louie

[allegro]

Have you seen the Girandoni Air Rifle from the late 1700s? Jefferson bought them and gave some to Lewis & Clark. It's pretty much the reason Lewis & Clark managed to go across the country without being instantly killed by hostile tribes.

Anyway, the point is that the founders absolutely knew gun tech was advancing well beyond single shot rifles.

(1) I said "civilian." The Lewis and Clark Expedition was commissioned by the U.S. Government, and L&C did demonstrations of said gun to scare the Natives.

(2) "While the detachable air reservoir was capable of around 30 shots it took nearly 1,500 strokes of a hand pump to fill those reservoirs." That's not an AR-15 in the hands of civilians.

The Heller decision agrees. Oh, and if your short attention span allowed you to read the ENTIRE Heller page on the ACLU site, you would come to a section that makes perfect sense from the legal analysis (and ACLU) perspective:


Gun Control

Updated: 1/17/2013
The Second Amendment provides: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

ACLU POSITION
Given the reference to "a well regulated Militia" and "the security of a free State," the ACLU has long taken the position that the Second Amendment protects a collective right rather than an individual right. For seven decades, the Supreme Court's 1939 decision in United States v. Miller was widely understood to have endorsed that view. This position is currently under review and is being updated by the ACLU National Board in light of the U.S. Supreme Court decision in D.C. v. Heller in 2008.

In striking down Washington D.C.'s handgun ban by a 5-4 vote, the Supreme Court's decision in D.C. v. Heller held for the first time that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to keep and bear arms, whether or not associated with a state militia. The ACLU disagrees with the Supreme Court's conclusion about the nature of the right protected by the Second Amendment. However, particular federal or state laws on licensing, registration, prohibition, or other regulation of the manufacture, shipment, sale, purchase or possession of guns may raise civil liberties questions.

ANALYSIS
Although ACLU policy cites the Supreme Court's decision in U.S. v. Miller as support for our position on the Second Amendment, our policy was never dependent on Miller. Rather, like all ACLU policies, it reflects the ACLU's own understanding of the Constitution and civil liberties.

Heller takes a different approach than the ACLU has advocated. At the same time, it leaves many unresolved questions, including what firearms are protected by the Second Amendment, what regulations (short of an outright ban) may be upheld, and how that determination will be made.

Those questions will, presumably, be answered over time.

Drift = Off

[allegro]

You literally just got done quoting me, calling me a moron, only to agree with the proposed implementation

I think you have a condition that affects your reading comprehension. THE GREAT BIG FUCKING GIANT NORTH CAROLINA CAVEAT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARAGRAPH should be a fucking clue.

I've known guys like you, fake Libertarians who give a fuck about civil rights only relative to their own lily white upper middle class gun-toting ass. Everybody else? "FUCK 'EM!"

[theimage13]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if it turned out that there actually was massive voter fraud, and that it changed the outcome of swing states from red to blue?

I know that didn't happen. But just as a hypothetical, because I love learning new things: if, after a president is sworn in, there is proof that voter fraud conclusively cost the other party the election, what would the consequence be? Anyone know? An impeachment doesn't seem right, since it doesn't seem to address the larger issue. Nor does it seem like they'd simply toss the affected votes and declare a new winner. Would there be a special election held? Is this even a scenario that we have a written ruling on? Or would we have to make something up on the fly?

[allegate]

The State Department’s entire senior management team just resigned
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/01/26/the-state-departments-entire-senior-management-team-just-resigned/?utm_term=.12fce986814e
Good for them.

[Volband]

You are babbling utter nonsense and profess to have gleaned your understanding of how militarized police detain crowds in protests from a fucking Reddit comment. Please by all means continue telling me how to respond to that.
No, I reflected on your ignorance and how you rather jump to fear mongering, than think critically.

Also, the fact that I could found a counter-argument in a reddit post to the "TRUMP IS JAILING OUR JOURNALISTS, RUN!!!" shows how ridiculous you were/are.

In many ways, Trump is the best thing that could have happened to you, because you will need these 4 years if you don't want it to be 8.

[Your Name Here]

instead of wining about the results, how about the we do it over how about that you tiny handed little bitch
-louie


Thank you, Louie_Cypher that made me laugh.