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elevenism
04-02-2014, 09:27 PM
I think this probably warrants it's own thread, especially since it's the SECOND deadly fort hood shooting in 5 years.

Here's the latest.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Active-Shooter-Reported-at-Fort-Hood-253636461.html

elevenism
04-02-2014, 09:28 PM
The first one i for one saw as an act of terror, but it was never called that.
I guess we'll find out the motivation behind this one in the days to come.

Dra508
04-03-2014, 06:35 PM
I guess the word Fort doesn't mean anything like safe or protected. Especially from one of their own.. again

RegularJohn
04-04-2014, 11:28 PM
It's easy to jump to conclusions on motives so we can point a finger at an ideology or problem.. But we forget that many many lives have been changed because of this.

allegro
04-05-2014, 07:49 AM
Yeah I saw a photo of flags in a military cemetery denoting the number of suicides, average military suicides in the US is 22 per day, it was astounding. We have a serious PTSD problem as well as head injury problem and the US military sweeps it under the rug (and won't pay for it).

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/27/politics/military-suicide-legislation/

elevenism
04-05-2014, 10:17 PM
yeah it's fucking terrible @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) , i've been thinking about the way we treat our soldiers. i haven't supported ANY of the wars in my lifetime, but i feel awful for the poor people who signed up to try to get a better life.

My dear lifelong friend Ty came back from working as a Marine in Afghanistan and he was just FUCKED up.
He kept the music and tv turned up all the way in his room to drown out the noises in his head...noises of the war.
He turned to the bottle and stayed insanely drunk for about a year and a half and then he finally killed himself. :(
As far as i could understand, he was haunted by the things they made him do there- "clearing" out houses...pulling sometimes innocent families out of their houses while looking for the bad guys. From what he told me, if the people resisted, it was normal to kill them...par for the course.
He needed help so badly and didn't get it.

I just remembered....right before he killed himself, they had FINALLY set him up with counseling...he had an appt coming up...but it was too little too late i guess.

allegro
04-05-2014, 10:29 PM
Very sad. Very very sad.

This guy who shot those people at Ft Hood, his Mom had died and he'd asked for a leave of absence form and they blew him off and told him to come back; seems like this was depression and loss and a typical powder keg military situation, they've been treating soldiers like shit, like robots, not like humans, this is bound to happen.

Dra508
04-08-2014, 10:44 AM
Very sad. Very very sad.

This guy who shot those people at Ft Hood, his Mom had died and he'd asked for a leave of absence form and they blew him off and told him to come back; seems like this was depression and loss and a typical powder keg military situation, they've been treating soldiers like shit, like robots, not like humans, this is bound to happen.I agree this needs to be figured out, but in this particular situation with this particular person, just because he's a veteran who spent some months in a war zone (if we can still call it that) loses it and shoots randomly (it appears) at other military folks. I don't get it it. elevenism friend sounds more like the guy we can say it was "bound to happen" yet he just killed himself and didn't take people with him. I know I'm simplifying here, but why someone chooses to take people with them (a la Newtown and Columbine) and another just takes them self out? It's clearly an area that we need to better understand and deal with.

allegro
04-08-2014, 10:48 AM
I agree this needs to be figured out, but in this particular situation with this particular person, just because he's a veteran who spent some months in a war zone (if we can still call it that) loses it and shoots randomly (it appears) at other military folks. I don't get it it. elevenism friend sounds more like the guy we can say it was "bound to happen" yet he just killed himself and didn't take people with him. I know I'm simplifying here, but why someone chooses to take people with them (a la Newtown and Columbine) and another just takes them self out? It's clearly an area that we need to better understand and deal with.
Now it appears that this guy was denied leave. And he shot people in the administrative office. But he was on a bunch of psychiatric drugs. Of course, that doesn't in itself make a person violent. But the military isn't addressing any of these issues. They aren't even seriously addressing the huge number of sexual assaults in the military. I guess this guy didn't even see combat? Why people kill is something i don't think we'll ever understand. This guy had a good record, never had any indication that he'd ever do anything like this. He'd been depressed, his mother died, then something snapped, obviously.

elevenism
04-08-2014, 11:09 AM
We as a race claim to be civilized, but when i think about war...it's the least civil, most inhumane thing possible. i can't fucking believe we still do it to each other.
And to be a soldier...all our lives we are taught to not hurt people, not kill people. Shit, if you kill people, the state will kill you.
But there's this one job where they give you a gun and tell you to kill as many people as possible.
It's BOUND to fuck people off, you know?
None of this shit surprises me...what blows my fucking mind is that we still shoot at each other with federal backing!

Edit: also, a lot of people are just stone cold crazy. Hell, i've never owned a gun. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder with psychotic features at about 14, and i used to drink a liter of vodka a day. If i had a gun, someone would have been shot by now...most likely me.

allegro
04-08-2014, 12:11 PM
Edit: also, a lot of people are just stone cold crazy. Hell, i've never owned a gun. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder with psychotic features at about 14, and i used to drink a liter of vodka a day. If i had a gun, someone would have been shot by now...most likely me.
I don't know about that; I think if you'd really wanted a gun, you would have gotten one by now. I'm not certain that the mere presence of a gun makes you want to use it improperly (not counting hunting). I think most of us have governors built into us that prevent us from crossing that line. But gang bangers cross that line all the time. The magic question is: Why? What makes them feel that it's okay to cross that line? They're not crazy. Are they in a "war?" Is it just seen as "acceptable?" Rhetorical question, of course. And their casualties aren't seen as valuable in comparison to those in this Fort Hood tragedy, otherwise every shooting in Chicago would be national news every day.

Canuckle
04-08-2014, 12:21 PM
Big difference between supporting a war and supporting 'our troops'.

I'll always stand a clap for military vets, offer a moment silence or show support in some form or another. However, far too often do we associate war initiatives with those who are fighting them (including some soldiers themselves).

I believe trying to remove this stigma, which often leaves soldiers feeling isolated, would be a step in the right direction in trying to enforce that as a soldier, they are still people and not just an instrument of war.

Dra508
04-08-2014, 01:37 PM
Getting waaaay off topic, but I think some of the examples you give of people who kill fall under the 'kill or be killed' domain. Even if its not an immediate threat. Whitey Bulger just wrote a letter to the court on behave of some guy who's been in prison for some 30 odd years for murder. He was appealing for this guy saying he didn't do it, won't say who did:

He wanted my advice, wrote Bulger.  What would I do I told him get him first, kill him . . . if you dont get him first Id say he will get you hes dangerous so again kill him and its over. And also never never repeat this conversation to anyone my only warning you know what will happen if you do he understood.
I don't think what happened at Fort Hood is kill or be killed scenario. For us, it's so hard to comprehend and our brains want to understand which is frustrating.

elevenism
04-08-2014, 05:58 PM
allegro, i, personally lack that governer...or i damn sure did when i used to drink. It's not the presence of the gun, it's the emotionally unstable drunk fucker WITH the gun. Luckily, i have known better than to own one. I'm glad i would have to go through the waiting period too. I'm not saying guns are bad in general...just for me.
As far as gang bangers, i have been locked up with them. Many of them are psychopaths thrust into dangerous, volatile environments, but here's the catch... they LIKE it. I've met people who are so dead eyed...empty. What do they care about? Money, power, respect. If they actually have any respect for life, they hide it well.
I'm rambling...way off topic myself here, but your quote about Chicago made me think of this watch the throne song.

"314 soldiers died in iraq, 509 died in chicago."

I don't know if you dig hip hop, but this tune is really catchy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yn5qj1pCj4