Trent Reznor and Belief in God

[Paperthin567]

I realize that this is going to be a taboo subject, but let's face it--signs are pointing in the direction that Trent may have found religion in some capacity. His recent tweet about "God was competing with our light show" and one of the lyrics in "Find my way" is "pray the Lord, my soul to take," which has Christian roots. Nevertheless, I'm curious as to if NIN fans like this, or don't. Many will be in denial about this, but I think that it's a good thing that he has found God, again, in some form or fashion.

[KarenLeslie]

I doubt it highly.

[scorpiusdiamond]

I remember there being a discussion about this on ets a long long time ago, when I had a, err... less forgiving view on religion.
Now, more maturely, I offer: who gives a fuck? You can argue all you want about lyric symbolism (for and against religion) but to be honest, it's the man's private views. Who cares?
Also, titling something 'Trent Reznor's Possible New..." is awfully misleading. This should be in Random NIN Questions if anything.

[Amaro]

I think of that line (amongst others to do with God) as being used just as an expression for those who don't have associated beliefs. Personally, I lean towards not believing in there being God/a god, and sometimes I will make points by saying stuff like that.

Whatever the case (don't bother me if he happens to presently be in with spirituality), I love that line in the song.

[howdidislipinto]

As loathe as I am to give @Paperthin567 (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2698) the time of day, from comments Trent has made, he's always believed (or wanted to believe) in god, and his issues and angst all come from the hypocrisy of organized religion, not the idea of god itself. At the very least he seems to be agnostic.

This of course is no reason to assume that just because he believes in some form of god that he believes what you believe @Paperthin567 (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2698), just like I wouldn't assume just because of Heresy or Terrible Lie that he MUST be an atheist like I am. Whatever he believes, it seems to be personal and he doesn't feel the need to shout about it or drag others into it -- maybe take a cue from that.

Edit: Can I just point out how fucking annoying it is to equate finding "god" with finding "religion?" Ugh.

[rhet]

In the same way that those most vocally against homosexuality often turn out to be gay themselves, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that a dude who shouted "your god is dead and no one cares" is actually religious or spiritual in some capacity and has now made peace with it.

[Paperthin567]

As loathe as I am to give @Paperthin567 (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2698) the time of day, from comments Trent has made, he's always believed (or wanted to believe) in god, and his issues and angst all come from the hypocrisy of organized religion, not the idea of god itself. At the very least he seems to be agnostic.

This of course is no reason to assume that just because he believes in some form of god that he believes what you believe @Paperthin567 (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2698), just like I wouldn't assume just because of Heresy or Terrible Lie that he MUST be an atheist like I am. Whatever he believes, it seems to be personal and he doesn't feel the need to shout about it or drag others into it -- maybe take a cue from that.

Obviously I struck a chord with you. Thanks for the kind words about "loathing" to comment on a topic that I bring up. There's 101 ways to be a jerk and you just nailed (pun intended) about all of them.

[henryeatscereal]

Q: Does Trent believe in god?
A: Yes, i think so

Q: Is Trent religious?
A: I highly doubt it...

[tony.parente]

Yeah i'm about done with Paperthin and jesus. Can't this be in the random nin comments section?

[binaryhermit]

Maybe he believes in one or more deities, maybe he doesn't. None of my business.

[Krazy]

I thought the same thing regarding that tweet but never posted anything about it. Reason I found it odd is most people (religious or not) would've mentioned mother nature regarding the lightning.

[hellospaceboy]

I'm cool either way, although I'm an atheist, I'm far from being anti-religion. Now that this is out of the way...

The evidence pointed out in the first post is extremely weak!!! Seriously, that freakin' tweet about the light show?! What a joke!

[Digital Twilight]

Religion and the concept of God is all around us and it influences us from the moment we are born. Whether you believe in it/them or not it is still likely to have some affect on your life.

[bigbadjesus]

I realize that this is going to be a taboo subject, but let's face it--signs are pointing in the direction that Trent may have found religion in some capacity. His recent tweet about "God was competing with our light show" and one of the lyrics in "Find my way" is "pray the Lord, my soul to take," which has Christian roots. Nevertheless, I'm curious as to if NIN fans like this, or don't. Many will be in denial about this, but I think that it's a good thing that he has found God, again, in some form or fashion.

I'm reasonably certain he has always believed in "God" in some form or fashion, just not religion or what religion says about God.

[marodi]

I care about TR being religious as much as he cares about me being religious.

In other words: frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. And I don't see why anyone else should.

[Leviathant]

Let's keep away from the personal attacks and the moderation suggestions.

I don't think his belief in a god is new. Perhaps his personal faith has changed since getting clean (maybe even as part of getting clean) and starting a family. To each their own.

[littlemonkey613]

His kid's names ;) LOL

[accelestar]

"Pray the lord my soul to take" is essentially part children's rhyme and part colloquialism. Attributing the weather to god doesn't imply religion. Either way, there's been a lot of NIN songs that mention "god" in one form or another, and no one asked any questions about "new belief in god" back then.

[Khrz]

Religion and the concept of God is all around us and it influences us from the moment we are born. Whether you believe in it/them or not it is still likely to have some affect on your life.

Yeah, even being an agnostic in a traditionally secular country, I'll still drop a "my god" on occasion, or mention it. Honestly I wouldn't read too much into it, especially in the USA where, it seems, the topic and presence of god/religion is so strong it will inevitably slip into everyday language mannerisms, no matter what your actual beliefs are.
Not to mention that "god" is a nice father figure to blame or fear when you write songs, way catchier than "fate" or "chance".

[sheepdean]

I have never, ever seen Trent claim to be atheist, and in fact in the 90s I recall a couple of interviews stating he believes in a higher power, just has no religion per se. And, who gives a fuck.

[Broadbent]

uuugh what a bad thread. Who cares? You shouldn't. Enjoy the music kids.

[howdidislipinto]

dus Trank Rezon belive in aliiens?? have u herd the warning????

[Paperthin567]

Sorry I brought it up, people. Wasn't trying to cause problems. I'm just exciting about the new album and thought I would start a new topic regarding something I've been thinking about lately.

[Travis Lawler]

https://www.facebook.com/TheGoodLordAbove?ref=br_tf

The funniest God of all.

[ZeroSum]

I beleave mr reznak has always known god teh downard spiral is his mesage that if u dont beleave in chrsitanity you wil most likely do drugs and kil urself

[sheepdean]

http://www.ninwiki.com/Recurring_lyrics#God

Seriously, this isn't a new thing. A thread on religion in NIN would be more interesting than if Trent is religious NOW. And only if the antitheists aren't allowed in the thread.

[butter_hole]

Why God? Why not Allah? Rah? Vishnu? Xenu?

[Max Leo]

dus Trank Rezon belive in aliiens?? have u herd the warning????

That was Xenu, JMJ told TR to write a song about it or he wouldn't join NIN. :p

And btw, when Trent was asked about JMJ's beliefs, he said that he was not a religious person, and he has said the same thing many times before, that he believed in something but he was not a religious guy.

Lyrics for "Home" (2005):



Everything is catching up with me I awake to find I'm not at all where I should be And it feels I'm getting to the end And it's hard to figure out what's real and what's pretend To break from what we're tied to God knows how much I've tried to And I am still inside you And I am still inside you I escape every now and then And to think I find myself back here again and again I used to know who I was until you came along I return to the only place I've ever felt that I belong To break from what we're tied to God knows how much I've tried to And I am still inside you And I am still inside you

I'm an atheist, and I don't like religions of any kind, but if I had to stop listening to music made by non-atheist musicians, then I would miss a lot of good music (same for films, books, etc).

If Trent went the Billy Corgan route and started to talk about how great is God and even opened a religious/spiritual site, then I would be pissed tbh, born-again christians can be really annoying imo, but I can't see Trent doing that kind of stuff, I don't see him in a show asking his fans to pray for his soul and to go to church or something like that, if he did it he would lose a lot of fans and he knows it.

Like I said, I'm an atheist, but I use the word "god" a lot because everybody does it and because it would be silly if I tried to avoid certain words just because their origin was religion-related. That would be like if some relative told me to have a merry christmas and I replied with a "fuck you, Satan is my lord" just to piss him/her off, and I'm not a Manson fan, lol.

Regarding the kids names, I doubt its a religion-related question, I think he just lost some bet, maybe he was in a competition with Josh Homme looking for the most bizarre kid names and then they dared each other to use them for real, and if Trent had not been sober for so long, I would swear that they would have been probably drunk. XD

[twilight explosion]

I say we talk to Trent about the one true god

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg

[playwithfire]

I feel like any evidence toward a newfound belief in god, would, at this point, be...

http://daugerotype.wearingthesechains.com/photos/uncategorized/glasses.jpg

Paperthin.

[slave2thewage]

Trent Reznor was born in the light of the Seven.

[Max Leo]

Why was I facepalmed? I was just kidding... :-( :p

[orestes]

Trent Reznor was born in the light of the Seven.

Obviously he prays to the Smith.

[Baphomette]

I say we talk to Trent about the one true god

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1vzwjTDUk1qi532yo1_500.gif

[AlanMorlock]

Or you know, it was a Nietzsche reference.

[Ryan]

I feel like any evidence toward a newfound belief in god, would, at this point, be...

http://daugerotype.wearingthesechains.com/photos/uncategorized/glasses.jpg

Paperthin.


http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/760/085/applause-gif-tumblr-47_original.gif?1363040789

[joplinpicasso]

Epic, all above me.

Honestly, I think in most NIN songs where God or a god is mentioned, it's in the form of a general feeling of fate, connection, judgement, or spiritual morality. The word is used sardonically throughout TDS and YZ (by the way, wasn't Heresy about AIDS, and the narrator feels that if he was truly cursed by God with a virus then he would rather go to Hell? I could be wrong, but it's definitely deeper than constantly assumed).

To get a true sense for TR's feelings on the matter expressed through his music, just look no further than RWIB: "Just creations of your own / your devils and your gods" So, I do feel that he's against organized praise of a judgmental, personal Savior, but he believes in a higher, creating power. I'm an atheist (the word antitheist was used last page -- I'm an antitheist insofar as I'm against religious practices that hinder the happiness and wellbeing of others), and I'll listen to musicians from all forms of faith or lack thereof as long as they're not promoting ideas through their music that harm or hinder the happiness and wellbeing of others. (Sunny Day Real Estate was an amazing band but their singer became a born-again mid-way through their career -- at least he didn't start to write songs about the sins of sodomy. Caravaggio was a vaguely Christian man -- but he's one of my favorite painters).

[Radiovoyr]

It could be a figure of speech, or it could just imply that he maybe believes in something like G-d. Everyone knows what G-d/Lord suggest, so in a song it carries an innate weight, and regardless of how he feels all the time - he felt that way when he wrote it, and that is what matters.

Also, "pray the lord my soul to take", is not exactly of christian origin, but I doubt Trent converted and joined the tribe (mazal tov! if I am wrong). There were at least two religions/faiths that used 'G-d' in the big G, monotheistic sense before christianity, and I do not see anyone asking if he keeps Shabbos or when he thinks a prophet like Zoroaster will be reborn. It's just kind of silly to guess and inccorectly project something that is potentially so divisive and important (to him) on him.

Also, also, I truly feel like this a 1994 discussion and that the TDS font has sent us back to our 20 years younger thought processes and obsessions.

I dunno, shalom, friends, may the album leak soon and may our herring always be pickled.

edit: this post made me feel like a dick.

[DigitalChaos]

His kid's names ;) LOL
I was wondering why nobody mentioned the biblical kids names.

[Paperthin567]

So much love.

[Ryan]

Epic, all above me.

Honestly, I think in most NIN songs where God or a god is mentioned, it's in the form of a general feeling of fate, connection, judgement, or spiritual morality. The word is used sardonically throughout TDS and YZ (by the way, wasn't Heresy about AIDS, and the narrator feels that if he was truly cursed by God with a virus then he would rather go to Hell? I could be wrong, but it's definitely deeper than constantly assumed).

To get a true sense for TR's feelings on the matter expressed through his music, just look no further than RWIB: "Just creations of your own / your devils and your gods" So, I do feel that he's against organized praise of a judgmental, personal Savior, but he believes in a higher, creating power. I'm an atheist (the word antitheist was used last page -- I'm an antitheist insofar as I'm against religious practices that hinder the happiness and wellbeing of others), and I'll listen to musicians from all forms of faith or lack thereof as long as they're not promote ideas through their music that harm or hinder the happiness and wellbeing of others. (Sunny Day Real Estate was an amazing band but they're singer became a born-again mid-way through their career -- at least he didn't start to write songs about the sins of sodomy. Caravaggio was a vaguely Christian man -- but he's one of my favorite painters).

Put my faith in god and my trust in you now there's nothing more fucked up I could do.

[Harry Seaward]

Does anyone remember an interview where Trent was mentioning JMJ's Scientology (he might not have mentioned it by name) and playing songs like Heresy? I'm certain Trent also touched on his beliefs about religion. Am I inventing a memory here?

[Ryan]

Does anyone remember an interview where Trent was mentioning JMJ's Scientology (he might not have mentioned it by name) and playing songs like Heresy? I'm certain Trent also touched on his beliefs about religion. Am I inventing a memory here?

I remember that vaguely. I think it may have a forum response post on nin.com.

[marodi]

I was wondering why nobody mentioned the biblical kids names.

Funny this is mentioned because that's not the first thing that came to my mind when I learned about them. My first thought was "wow all those "z" would bring so many points in Scrabble if people's names were allowed".

Also: god is dead and no one cares. I'll see all of you in Hell.

[KarenLeslie]

Obviously he prays to the Smith.

I vote Drowned God. Am I the only one who's been paying attention to La Mer all this time? *sunglasses*

[Promethean]

Jesus dude, this is a stretch. If anything he's clearly interested in string theory and it's religious ramifications.

[Max Leo]

http://cdn.meme.li/i/o50jy.jpg

[Fist Fuck]

Hearing Trent recently didn't leave the impression that he's completely lost his mind yet, so I highly doubt it. He's a little softer now, but that's only understandable having a great wife and kids (and an Academy Award), but his general world views (politics, religion, society,...) haven't changed. There's still a lot of underlying anger in his music and lyrics that sometimes shines through.

"God was competing with our light show tonight." God obviously lost this most recent battle.

[Paper Street]

I remember that vaguely. I think it may have a forum response post on nin.com.

This was during the Digg Dialogg with Kevin Rose.

http://vimeo.com/4110764

The very last question 37ish minutes in?

[allegro]

His kid's names ;) LOL
Yup, both Biblical. Although, the Reznors seem to have studied the Perry and Etty Farrell Book of Baby Names (http://www.filmmagic.com/photos/Perry-Farrell-Etty-Farrell-and-sons-Hezron-Farrell-and-Izzadore/115073777).

Reznor seems to have been raised "properly" as a Rural Pennsylvanian Farm Boy Christian; he couldn't ditch that if he paid a billion bucks.

[Canuckle]

http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/jesus-eating-popcorn-gif.gif

[ComradeCornhole]

Signs point to TR being AT MOST a deist, with lyrical references to "god" being artistic flourishes. It's just as likely he's an agnostic, monist, pantheist, or just personally "spiritual". All of which are just fine with me. However, I believe he's certainly too smart to be a member of one of the big three (C,J, or I). And if he was, yeah, I'd respect him less and enjoy his music less. The same thing happened with Dave Mustaine when he began being publicly stupid. Call me intolerant or narrow-minded or an asshole all you want, but devout subscribers of a prescribed religion willfully ignore reason and evidence, along with all the parts of their doctrine they don't like, all the while apparently believing that everyone else is doomed to eternal suffering or even needs to be persecuted, oppressed or murdered in this life, as well. TR even held up such a viewpoint to ridicule in God Given.

[allegro]

Signs point to TR being AT MOST a deist, with lyrical references to "god" being artistic flourishes..
I'm a deist but I'm not seeing this because there is no specific text referring to same, and any interpretation of lyrics should be supported by the text .

Reznor has been writing about his problems and questions with/about God since Day One, but Theologians with Ph.Ds write huge scholarly articles about this shit all the time. If you aren't questioning, you aren't educated. And the stuff from Reznor's private journals (which became song lyrics per his interviews) read very very very much like the questions a lot of people who believe in God ask all the time, including theologians; the lyrics point to dilemmas we experience all the time. Reznor's lyrics obviously indicate that he was raised by devout churchgoers.

When you're down, you often blame God because you don't want to blame yourself. Also, see Genesis about free will. Reznor has converted Milton's "Paradise Lost" to song form, regularly. For profit.

Why on earth would you respect Reznor's music "less" if he was writing from a personal perspective, still believing in God yet writing about the Angel/Devil aspect of living his life? Sin, the Devil, God reaching his fucking arm through just to push you down, the Devil wants to fuck you in the back of the car, etc., that's all indicating that he was BELIEVING this stuff and it affected him, it's all personal stuff, a part of his belief system that he questioned, and it's likely to still be there in some way, you can't just "undo" that shit.

Artists are artists because of who they are and their reflections on their experiences; not for what you want them to be or your experiences. And, really, that's a good thing.

[DigitalChaos]

It's really weird seeing people use "belief in god" and "religion" interchangeably.

[allegro]

It's really weird seeing people use "belief in god" and "religion" interchangeably.
Yup. Weird. They are NOT the same thing.

[Fred]

I was wondering why nobody mentioned the biblical kids names.

Those are hardly proof of anything other than "Balthazar Reznor" and "Lazarus Reznor" sounding positively badass! It's those z's. Why should the Bible call dibs on all the cool names? :p

[Ryan]

Those are hardly proof of anything other than "Balthazar Reznor" and "Lazarus Reznor" sounding positively badass! It's those z's. Why should the Bible call dibs on all the cool names? :p

I think the latter is Lazarus Echo Reznor isn't it? Even more badass.

[allegro]

Names from Biblical times all the same. Both names are steeped in history.

Rock stars are REQUIRED to name their kids weird names. It's on the Job Description. Look at Frank Zappa's kids' names, for Christ sake.

Oops, I just said Christ.

[Kyle]

Oops, I just said Christ.

That's because you're a religious person now.

[GentlemanLoser]

Still an interesting idea to debate (religious discussions almost always are when everyone stays civil about it). I personally have picked up a vibe, especially in some of the recent interviews that Reznor has done, that God in one way or another is a bigger part of his life. Nothing specific, just a vibe I guess, and whatever, he's entitled to whatever lets him make sense of the world (his world that is). He's kinda been to hell and back, and when someone has been through such a transformation of their life and perspectives, they tend to externalize the personal strength expended to get there, vis-a-vis God or some other intangible 'other.'

Also to be frank, he's older (though you wouldn't know it to look at him, damn, he and Bowie must be hanging around the same fountain), more seasoned, and people seem to have a bit of a spiritual awaking as they get on top of their lives. How many of your parents have become more active in their religious activities since you became an independent adult? It just seems to be a thing, and I always wonder if/how my belief s will sway as I get to that indistinct age.

For the record, I've trended on the more atheistic side of agnostic for over a decade now and I still reference God (or gods, or Goddess for that matter) all the time as a figure of speech. So the way God is referenced lyrically, and especially the tweet about the lightning, isn't really telling of any genuine belief. I still get the feeling though, just in the way he talked in the Rolling Stone interview, as ephemeral as that feeling may be, that he's became more connected on some level with a personal God. He just sort of sounded like someone who's found God, or maybe just 'his way.' Or, you know, not.

[Kaze]

It's really weird seeing people use "belief in god" and "religion" interchangeably.

"He dreamed a god up and called it christianity."

[becomingwater]

The family life is changing Trent. His kids are making him a better person. He realizes how important his family is and what it means. The privacy for his family is important and he also knows the importance of his fans. Trent is a great family man and great entertainer! Enjoy the music

[ComradeCornhole]

I'm a deist but I'm not seeing this because there is no specific text referring to same, and any interpretation of lyrics should be supported by the text .

Reznor has been writing about his problems and questions with/about God since Day One, but Theologians with Ph.Ds write huge scholarly articles about this shit all the time. If you aren't questioning, you aren't educated. And the stuff from Reznor's private journals (which became song lyrics per his interviews) read very very very much like the questions a lot of people who believe in God ask all the time, including theologians; the lyrics point to dilemmas we experience all the time. Reznor's lyrics obviously indicate that he was raised by devout churchgoers.

When you're down, you often blame God because you don't want to blame yourself. Also, see Genesis about free will. Reznor has converted Milton's "Paradise Lost" to song form, regularly. For profit.

Why on earth would you respect Reznor's music "less" if he was writing from a personal perspective, still believing in God yet writing about the Angel/Devil aspect of living his life? Sin, the Devil, God reaching his fucking arm through just to push you down, the Devil wants to fuck you in the back of the car, etc., that's all indicating that he was BELIEVING this stuff and it affected him, it's all personal stuff, a part of his belief system that he questioned, and it's likely to still be there in some way, you can't just "undo" that shit.

Artists are artists because of who they are and their reflections on their experiences; not for what you want them to be or your experiences. And, really, that's a good thing.
Your not quite overt but still very present tone of condescension is duly noted. It is misplaced, in my estimation, however. 1.) Reznor need not spell it out explicitly in his lyrics for it to be fairly obvious that his philosophy on metaphysics and the mythologies that attempt to explain them lies somewhere between deist and antitheist. 2.) I apply critical analysis to every concept I encounter as a matter of philosophical inquiry, which I try to make an almost daily endeavor. This isn't so much an indicator of education, as all people who never received one are perfectly capable of doing philosophy. 3.) It appears that you are projecting your own existential struggles onto Reznor's often quite vague lyrics. That's perfectly okay; we all do it. But to treat your interpretation as anything more than conjecture is a little presumptuous. Which leads directly to: 4.) It's no secret, especially around here, that Reznor's lyrics came from his personal reflections in his journals. However, it is common practice to dress up the original lyrical concepts in descriptive imagery, rhetorical flourish and metaphor. 5.) I'll say what I said before another way: It is, of course, my own speculation --though it is based on quite a bit of evidence-- that Reznor does not believe in a personal and judgmental capital-G GOD at present time or any time in the not-so-recent past. And it has been explicitly stated that he has nothing but antipathy for at the very least Christianity, but by extension, probably all three of the dominant monotheistic, Abrahamic religions; this being the case even if he was indoctrinated into such belief as a child and held to those beliefs for a while (which is anyone's guess). So, for him to swing that direction now would mean that he had abandoned all the evidence and reason that a critically thinking person uses to set those beliefs aside in the first place. That being the same critical analysis that we can be quite sure made him a critic of US foreign and domestic policy (which, lyrically anyway, was dressed up in imagery and metaphor). And yeah, it would diminish my respect of him and make his music less enjoyable; I guess I have trouble separating art from artist. That ties in with what you said about art and artists, so it shouldn't be surprising that if I don't like the person, I wouldn't like their art either. To take it to the extreme (and invoke Godwin?), I wouldn't want anything to do with Hitler's paintings, no matter how aesthetically appealing they may be, because I know what courses through the mind of the artist and find it repulsive. And, really, that's a good thing.

[Promethean]

Last time I checked there's a song on HTDA's Welcom Oblivion called 'Strings and Attractors' which is clearly a reference to string theory. Sorry peeps, there is no God, but you do get to live out all the possible paths your life can take, so if your life sucks, rest assured that there's another you out there having a good time. There are other references in TR's music that reference this belief. No God.

[OSLIN]

Last time I checked there's a song on HTDA's Welcom Oblivion called 'Strings and Attractors' which is clearly a reference to string theory. Sorry peeps, there is no God, but you do get to live out all the possible paths your life can take, so if your life sucks, rest assured that there's another you out there having a good time. There are other references in TR's music that reference this belief. No God.

If there is a hell, I'll see you there.

[Bokononist]

You can project any belief structure on Reznor through his lyrics. That's the fun of the introspective, conceptual rock star after you're old and/or wise enough to stop treating them as a role model. Personally, I think his writing took a more atheistic turn around his sobriety. Whether that's auto-biographical is anyone's guess. Even more so now that the concept appears to be looking into his past or into a parallel universe or whatever. Use your time to better yourself instead of passing judgement on something that doesn't pertain to you.

[DigitalChaos]

"He dreamed a god up and called it christianity."
are you kidding me? cmon
its a lyrical representation of a complex thought. you don't take it as a literal and all inclusive sentence. I see lyrics that reference control and the fabrication of a religion (including a fabricated god) for the purpose of control. That doesn't exactly rhyme with the rest of the song though.

[BRoswell]

File this topic under "Who cares?"

I don't consider myself religious, but if Trent has "found God" or whatever you want to call it, so be it. It doesn't bother me, and I don't think it should bother anyone else.

[Amaro]

Yeah, maybe it's because I've never been one to completely immerse myself into speculation or sometimes even basic understanding of Trent's lyrics in general (like every other artist's lyrics I hear--I'm absolutely more of a music guy), but if he did come to say he had "found God" (or what have you in the world outside of ours as we know it), the songs I've grown so fond of would still just have largely personal meanings to me, no doubt in mind. It might be interesting to reflect on them with a new perspective, and maybe it'd be cool. The bottom line though would be, and is--that was then and this is now. You know...positively things do and will change in this world. Watch out!

[allegro]

And yeah, it would diminish my respect of him and make his music less enjoyable; I guess I have trouble separating art from artist. That ties in with what you said about art and artists, so it shouldn't be surprising that if I don't like the person, I wouldn't like their art either. To take it to the extreme (and invoke Godwin?), I wouldn't want anything to do with Hitler's paintings, no matter how aesthetically appealing they may be, because I know what courses through the mind of the artist and find it repulsive. And, really, that's a good thing.
Really? If you found out that Reznor believed in some kind of "God" (and often was pissed off at the organized religion Christian "God"), you'd no longer like Reznor's music? (I'm assuming you're not really comparing that to Hitler.)

Here, Reznor said he was "anti-organized religion. (http://www.theninhotline.net/archives/articles/xart121.shtml) He's said this a bunch of times, in various interviews. In one, he said this:

"There are just some things that don't seem very fair in the world, like this fucking hypocrisy of organized religion. I just don't understand how people can blindly believe a bunch of the shit they're fed, to believe it so that they don't think too hard about other issues. 'Be a good boy and you'll go to heaven.' If it works for you, fine, but it doesn't work for me and that pisses me off because I kind of wish it did."

Again, as was mentioned by DigitalChaos, there is a difference between religion and belief in "God"(s), which you know of course. How one defines "God" is another matter, probably more appropriate in the Religion thread. See Spinoza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinozism) for instance.

(I was not serious when I said I'm a Deist, I was just being a pain in the ass. Deism is an organized religion, so that's out if we're to take Reznor's interview quotes seriously.) As to my own beliefs: I'm a Goddess and worship myself every Tuesday.


Last time I checked there's a song on HTDA's Welcom Oblivion called 'Strings and Attractors' which is clearly a reference to string theory. Sorry peeps, there is no God, but you do get to live out all the possible paths your life can take, so if your life sucks, rest assured that there's another you out there having a good time. There are other references in TR's music that reference this belief. No God.
Wait, doesn't Mariqueen write the HTDA lyrics? Oh, this is getting fun. (http://www.inner.org/string/string.htm)

[tw3rbz]

He also said "Why in the name of god would I ever want to return" in Sunspots. I really just see it as a figure of speech, but it doesn't matter. The music/presentation will still be amazing

[EndlessLoveless]

Wow, who cares about this??????? Nothing will change if that is the case. Like everyone has said, his lyrics have always said "god" in them. The music wont change. I dont mean to be a dick, but this thread kinda sucks. Isnt there already a religion thread, because thats what this has turned into. Whoever said "this matters as much as TR cares what religion you are" got it right.

[allegro]

This is when I wish we had some of the old board archived because I could link Achamoth's 400-page "Closer" (to God) thread hahaha.

[EndlessLoveless]

The a song of ice and fire references are the only reason i keep checking this thread. Fucking hilarious. I agree that he follows the Drowned God and Damphair.

[redshoewearer]

Simply because someone uses 'god' in talking, or in art, doesn't mean they do or don't believe in it. Sometimes it depends on who you're talking to. I don't believe in it, but I'll say 'man proposes, god disposes' when talking about the weather to clients. I don't think it matters if he believes in it, and I don't think we'll ever know. His songs take on different meanings to each of us I expect, regardless of the belief set that TR had or didn't have when writing them. Most of us can probably relate to the teeth-gnashing aspect of the human condition that he expresses in more than a little of his material or we wouldn't be on here. The story of job in the bible is a pretty interesting piece of lit., for example, whether you are a believer or not.

[Volk]

I'm an atheist, and I say "goddamnit"... does that mean I'm secretly religious?

this thread should just be titled "Trent Reznor's Possible New Belief in Himself"

[ComradeCornhole]

Really? If you found out that Reznor believed in some kind of "God" (and often was pissed off at the organized religion Christian "God"), you'd no longer like Reznor's music?

K... I'm going to try to be very precise so we can move forward. Indeed, for the very reasons you've cited, I'm not inclined to believe that Reznor believes in a "personal" god. This is largely because the idea of a vaguely "humanoid" character as god is such a patently obvious human (male, to be exact) creation. The god of Abraham is just a huge sponge for man's projection. Back on point, as I mentioned earlier, if he currently or ever believes in some kind of "god" as more of a force of creation or as the substance or nature of everything (Spinoza [who I'm a fan of]), that's perfectly fine with me and I'd have no beef with him or anyone else who is inclined to believe such a thing. But to accept the idea of a personal god who whispers in certain people's ears and interferes in (and judges) the minutiae of human affairs is, in my opinion, a blatant abandonment of reason. For TR to go from Spinoza (or whatever) to that would mean that he was no longer the person who made all the music I love any more. Feeling that we can identify emotionally and philosophically with TR is a reason many of us enjoy his music, I'd venture to guess; so, knowing that he and I had a huge philosophical gulf would taint my ability to identify with his music any more. Example from earlier: I haven't been able to enjoy Megadeth since I heard DM talking up Rick Santorum and babbling about chemtrails. Maybe it's just me. And yes, Hitler was a HUGE exaggeration to help illustrate what is better explained above.

[allegro]

K... I'm going to try to be very precise so we can move forward. Indeed, for the very reasons you've cited, I'm not inclined to believe that Reznor believes in a "personal" god. This is largely because the idea of a vaguely "humanoid" character as god is such a patently obvious human (male, to be exact) creation. The god of Abraham is just a huge sponge for man's projection. Back on point, as I mentioned earlier, if he currently or ever believes in some kind of "god" as more of a force of creation or as the substance or nature of everything (Spinoza [who I'm a fan of]), that's perfectly fine with me and I'd have no beef with him or anyone else who is inclined to believe such a thing. But to accept the idea of a personal god who whispers in certain people's ears and interferes in (and judges) the minutiae of human affairs is, in my opinion, a blatant abandonment of reason. For TR to go from Spinoza (or whatever) to that would mean that he was no longer the person who made all the music I love any more. Feeling that we can identify emotionally and philosophically with TR is a reason many of us enjoy his music, I'd venture to guess; so, knowing that he and I had a huge philosophical gulf would taint my ability to identify with his music any more. Example from earlier: I haven't been able to enjoy Megadeth since I heard DM talking up Rick Santorum and babbling about chemtrails. Maybe it's just me. And yes, Hitler was a HUGE exaggeration to help illustrate what is better explained above.
Ok, oddly enough, I agree with pretty much everything you've said, here, and I totally understand what you're saying. Glad we clarified.

[ComradeCornhole]

Hoo-ray! Reviewing that, I wasn't as clear or precise as I wanted to be, but I'm glad we're on the same page. I guess I'm also trying to say that going from acknowledgement of some kind of nebulous, perhaps even conscious force in the universe (or the universe itself) to embracing the position that you KNOW what or who god is and believing what other people claim to know about him seems like, well.... crap. :) Stated a better way, going from the humility of doubt to the smugness of supposed certainty really irks me.

[Kyle]

Also to be frank, he's older (though you wouldn't know it to look at him, damn, he and Bowie must be hanging around the same fountain), more seasoned, and people seem to have a bit of a spiritual awaking as they get on top of their lives. How many of your parents have become more active in their religious activities since you became an independent adult? It just seems to be a thing, and I always wonder if/how my belief s will sway as I get to that indistinct age. I think it's just that when people get older, they think about death more and want to hedge their bets (so to speak) because their death is coming up sooner. But with that said, I realized today that we already have the answer. In Came Back Haunted, he says "I don't believe." So there you go. As plausible a proof as most of the others posted in this thread so we can put this to rest now.

[echoespaul]

Do I see a man who has openly found god? Not really. Do I see a man who has openly found peace and happiness in his life? Yes. Abso-fing-lutely. And I am a big fan of that.

[orestes]

Whoa, somebody needs to get off their high horse.

[DigitalChaos]

I'm in the atheist leaning agnostic camp. I'm never 100% sure about anything and always leave room for my mind to be changed. I enjoy debate of any kind, including religion and faith. It's very difficult to find anyone who can rationally debate it though.

I wasn't raised to follow any type of religion. My parents were, and they rediscovered their faith shortly after I moved out. I'm guessing its something about them feeling their mortality and their perception that "the world is getting worse." They don't attend any sort of church. They just read the bible and that's it. That's pretty respectable to me (even though they drive me fucking insane trying to make me "see" god). The bulk of my issues surrounding faith in a higher being stems from organized religion. There are a LOT of people who have strong faith in a god but do not attend any sort of church. They really don't get any sort of recognition in every day culture. When you understand this, it adds a very different dynamic to the whole thing.

[jhkoning]

No chance.

[megalomaniac3]

I'm an atheist, and I say "goddamnit"... does that mean I'm secretly religious?

this thread should just be titled "Trent Reznor's Possible New Belief in Himself"

I've always seen Reznor's recurring lyrics regarding believing or beliefs, to refer to him believing in himself, conquering self-doubt, etc.
I highly doubt Reznor has a new found belief in 'God'.

[Paul]

Not to stir the pot, but to revisit this in light of the Find My Way premiere & lyrics:



Lord my path has gone astray
I'm just trying to find my way
Wandered here from far away
I'm just trying to find my way

You were never meant to see
All those things inside of me
Now that you have gone away
I'm just trying to find my way

Oh

I have made a great mistake
I pray the lord my soul to take
Ghosts of who I used to be
I can feel them come for me
Looks as though they're here to stay
I'm just trying to find my way

Oh

[???]

I have been to every place
I have been to everywhere
I'm just trying to find my way
Oh dear lord, hear my prayer

[elevenism]

Why God? Why not Allah? Rah? Vishnu? Xenu?
Vishnu is a deity in a pantheistic religion, as is Ra. God and Allah are the same word in two different languages (english an arabic,) which are, as far as i can tell, both describing YHVH, the "God" of Abrahamic monotheism.
Fuck..im rambling. What i'm trying to say is that "god" is not the NAME of "god" in christianity. God is a synonym for deity. God does NOT = Christianity.

As for "trent believeing in God," well...i've always figured he believed in god...to whom is he talking in Terrible Lie?

Just sayin ;)

[Kyle]

God and Allah are the same word in two different languages (english an arabic,) which are, as far as i can tell, both describing YHVH, the "God" of Abrahamic monotheism.

Actually, not really. If "Allah" was just the Arabic word for God, then the Arabic call to faith would be "there is no god but God" which is kinda asinine. God is a title, Allah is a name. YHVH is the name of the Judeo-Christian god, but Allah is the name of the Muslim god. Since American WASPs don't realize that there is a world outside of theirs, they just use the name God to refer to YHVH, when it's really just his title. Many of these are the same people that think that if Jesus spoke English than so should the rest of the world, goddammit. And YHVH, Jesus and Allah come from the same root (i.e. Abraham, Old Testament etc.), but there are definite differences between the two. Jews believe in the Old Testament/Torah. Christians believe in that same book, but with additions that modify the meaning of the Torah, kinda like the Special Edition of the Torah. I don't know if Moses shoots first though. Islam believes in the Torah and New Testament mostly, but they give it second place behind the writings of Mohammed, and basically (and here's where I'm getting into parts that I might be a bit off on) believe that the Jews modified the Torah. It's not really about JHVH, but about Allah. Esau was favored instead of Jacob, etc. And they differ in their beliefs on the New Testament in that Jesus was a prophet and not the Messiah or son of God or God in the flesh, etc.

Most of this is referring to people who actually know the roots and beliefs of their religion. The average American religious person just figures it's all the same because they don't even know much about the god they believe in (or don't believe in), let alone the one other people believe in to know the difference.

[scarecrow]

Meanwhile, back in 1989...

[Butterscotch]

Trent's beliefs or lack thereof don't affect me at all.

I listen to music by people who are satanists, christians, etc. and I'm an atheist. Their beliefs have nothing at all to do with the music I enjoy. It does not matter at all.

[Sutekh]

It's really weird seeing people use "belief in god" and "religion" interchangeably.

It's incorrect to use them interchangeably, but it's not exactly weird, seeing as the latter almost always involves the former

[ensanchecedor]

So...no more heresy or ruiner?

[Kyle]

So...no more heresy or ruiner?
If I was Trent and had a newfound faith in the Christian god, I'd remove Terrible Lie from setlists before Ruiner.

And since that's still there....

[allegro]

As has been mentioned in this thread, there is an organized religion "God" (not just Christian) who is the Hairy Thunderer in whose image we have allegedly been made.

And then there are a lot of other definitions or ideas of "God," all of which are valid and entirely personal without the need to attempt to describe to anyone, including simply "love" or "a feeling of a higher power" or a "universal collective" or simply "nature."

The God that Reznor bitches about in lyrics is obviously the God from organized religion with all the power (Closer) who plays humans like pawns, vs. the Deist God (the "watchmaker") or Spinoza's God or God or Lord who is your designated higher power.

[Ponderance]

I've thought about that lately, with some of the references in new NIN so far. While religion in general makes me cringe, I always am variously envious of those who are capable of believing said stories. So if he is getting into religion - good for him. I just hate hearing about it.

[nowimnothing]

I am questioning my lack of better judgment now, 'cause I clicked this thread and read more than one post. Seriously, how entitled do NIN fans on ETS think they are? What fucking business is it of ours? Lyrics are lyrics and are nothing more.

[allegro]

Um, I think this is a DISCUSSION BOARD and people are actually having an intellectual discussion?

One can believe in an abstract "God" without being religious at all. One can deny the existence of one type of God while still believing in a type of "Higher Power," even if that means the Borg. It's highly personal.

[binaryhermit]

As I mistakenly posted elsewhere, to elaborate on what I said earlier, if TR were shoving it in my face like, say, Billy Corgan, it might turn me off a bit. But that's not the case here.

[Freshcat]

I doubt highly he has gone to the other end of the 'belief' spectrum but family and fatherhood usually does bring some change in your outlook on life and meaning.
Good for him!

[sheepdean]

As I mistakenly posted elsewhere, to elaborate on what I said earlier, if TR were shoving it in my face like, say, Billy Corgan, it might turn me off a bit. But that's not the case here.
Would you feel the same if he shoved godlessness in your face?

[elevenism]

Most of this is referring to people who actually know the roots and beliefs of their religion. The average American religious person just figures it's all the same because they don't even know much about the god they believe in (or don't believe in), let alone the one other people believe in to know the difference.

my sentiments exactly. i spend a great deal of my free time studying religions. and it drives me fucking CRAZY that people think that God = YHVH.
If i'm not mistaken, however, i believe that Allah IS the arabic word for god, and that the call to faith IS "there is no god but god." i may be wrong on this one.
I'm with Sheepdean, in that we should start a theism thread...Kyle, you seem to have studied as much as i have, and i'm sure we aren't the only ones.

[Millionaire]

This was during the Digg Dialogg with Kevin Rose.

http://vimeo.com/4110764

The very last question 37ish minutes in?
I remember this. There was a question if there was tension in the group because JMJ is a Scientologist and Rob Sheridan tweeted photos about a protest against Scientology. Trent said he wasn't religious in any way and he was respectful of whatever the band members believed. He said something about not knowing anything about Scientology other than information from a biased media, and that if they were to compare Christianity and Scientology in regards to which had the most negative impact on the world that wouldn't be a discussion a Christian would want to have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBxhxVIiwaA
@37:30

[DigitalChaos]

Look guys, it's pretty obvious by now that NIИ is the most successful covert christian rock band ever.

I mean, just look at how you spell "the lord" in hebrew... its fucking "nin"!!! and Trent's reasoning for flipping one of those n's is a reference to the fact that you read hebrew in the reverse direction of english.

The only character missing is the "yod" which basically looks like a ' mark. Clearly, it's been hiding behind the box that normally surrounds [NIИ]. Is it any coincidence that the Hesitation Marks era logo has started dramatically removing that box? The yod will soon be revealed....




http://i.imgur.com/9hyljox.jpg

[Sutekh]

I am questioning my lack of better judgment now, 'cause I clicked this thread and read more than one post. Seriously, how entitled do NIN fans on ETS think they are? What fucking business is it of ours? Lyrics are lyrics and are nothing more.

So do you think lyrics are all meaningless? Or do you just think nobody has the right to try and interpret them? Do you think songwriters get angry when people try to figure out what the meanings of their songs are? Do you think trent writes highly personal lyrics but would be horrified if he knew people wonder what they mean? Ffs man what are you talking about

[Winter Is Coming]

To me, Trent's religious beliefs are important in the same way that it changes my interpretation of THTF knowing he wanted a backdrop of GW Bush at the 2005 MTV Movie Awards and that he's married means my interpretation and/or understanding of Everything is different than if I didn't know those things.

[Thor]

You know, I think that TR has enough reasons to not believe in God and at the same time he has enough reasons to do it.

[Magtig]

What am I, the only HDA fan in this thread; no mention of On the Wing? Not sure who wrote the lyrics, but Trent sings them all the way through:

I hear the word is on the wing I don't believe in anything
A chorus of voices rise to sing I don't believe in anything
Used to Believe in you Yet all we do Is wait

[nowimnothing]

So do you think lyrics are all meaningless? Or do you just think nobody has the right to try and interpret them? Do you think songwriters get angry when people try to figure out what the meanings of their songs are? Do you think trent writes highly personal lyrics but would be horrified if he knew people wonder what they mean? Ffs man what are you talking about

Calm down. No need for the poor attitude.

As an artist myself, I can appreciate how personal art is. NIN is an artistic construct, not a literal representation of the man behind the music.

Lyrics are what they are, and at no point did I say that they should not be up for interpretation. What I inferred was, that the lyrics are part of the artistic construct and nothing more. You can read into the lyrics as much as you want, but they may give you no true indicator of who Trent Reznor actually is. Even less so his spiritual / religious stance.

People need to realise that the lyrics are part of the NIN 'character' not Trent Reznor himself.

[Ponderance]

I'm ok with godlessness and anti religion. I'll take that side. I'm not ok with any specific religion. I'll sign on to anti many or single religions. I'll be that guy. But, I'm heavily agnostic... so... I guess it adds up.

[Rabbit]

man, trent going religious on me would be the final nail in the coffin.

[sheepdean]

What am I, the only HDA fan in this thread; no mention of On the Wing? Not sure who wrote the lyrics, but Trent sings them all the way through:

I hear the word is on the wing I don't believe in anything
A chorus of voices rise to sing I don't believe in anything
Used to Believe in you Yet all we do Is wait
I take offence to you saying you're the only HTDA fan here :P.

And Mariqueen still write most of the lyrics, so probably not relevant. Not to mention that, imo, that song is more political than religious

[Butterscotch]

I take offence to you saying you're the only HTDA fan here :P.

Same. Love HTDA.

[Sutekh]

Calm down. No need for the poor attitude.

As an artist myself, I can appreciate how personal art is. NIN is an artistic construct, not a literal representation of the man behind the music.

Lyrics are what they are, and at no point did I say that they should not be up for interpretation. What I inferred was, that the lyrics are part of the artistic construct and nothing more. You can read into the lyrics as much as you want, but they may give you no true indicator of who Trent Reznor actually is. Even less so his spiritual / religious stance.

People need to realise that the lyrics are part of the NIN 'character' not Trent Reznor himself.

And you know that for sure? No you don't. And don't talk to me about poor attitude when you're chastising people for analysing art. i think you suppose way too much. "i'm an artist as well so I can tell you for sure that trent doesn't mean it literally".

"Inferred" is correct, because year zero aside, trent has never implied NIN's lyrics are fiction. The fragile is full of lyrics about substance abuse and grief, and guess what... Tr was a grieving wreckhead at the time

staggering coincidences like this lead most people to believe nin's lyrics have a personal journal quality to them... What makes you think they're more likely just the details of an invented persona?

the funny thing is you think people are line stepping by making suppositions about his faith based on his lyrics, but here you are feeling you can make assumptions about the nature of his art because... you consider yourself an artist... I mean at least everyone else is going on stuff he's actually written!

[nowimnothing]

And you know that for sure? No you don't. And don't talk to me about poor attitude when you're chastising people for analysing art. i think you suppose way too much. "i'm an artist as well so I can tell you for sure that trent doesn't mean it literally".

"Inferred" is correct, because year zero aside, trent has never implied NIN's lyrics are fiction. The fragile is full of lyrics about substance abuse and grief, and guess what... Tr was a grieving wreckhead at the time

staggering coincidences like this lead most people to believe nin's lyrics have a personal journal quality to them... What makes you think they're more likely just the details of an invented persona?

the funny thing is you think people are line stepping by making suppositions about his faith based on his lyrics, but here you are feeling you can make assumptions about the nature of his art because... you consider yourself an artist... I mean at least everyone else is going on stuff he's actually written!


OK. I think you take this (and yourself) a little too seriously. Be sure to have a real nice day knowing your opinion is the only one that is right.

[Sutekh]

Er nope, you're the one dropping in to let everyone know how dumb they are for seeing things differently to you! And as someone who announces that their being an artist gives them a more advanced insight than everyone else ...I'm sure someone as down to earth as you is in a position to tell other people that they take themelves too seriously ;)

been pondering this a bit... There is a bit of a scale for these things. You have something like ziggy stardust at one end and ian curtis at the other. But nonetheless despite the artifice of ziggy or the cod poetics of billy corgan, i still get the impression that the act is somehow still expressed from their own personal perspective and is about imparting some impression of life as they experience it

like to what degree do you consider TR's lyrics abstract from his personal life - surely many of the songs are clearly about events and issues in his life

[allegro]

We know NIN lyrics represent Trent's thoughts and his personal life and words from his personal journals because he said so in dozens of interviews. We could cite them here, but you can easily find them yourself in the NIN Hotline archives.

In at least one interview, he said he did NOT feel comfortable creating a fictitious character (he cited Alice Cooper as an example of what he was avoiding), despite Bowie's advice to write from the fictitious third person standpoint (to make writing a less arduous and soul-mining task).

Edit: Here is a fairly recent interview where he conveys the above, stuff he's repeated many times in the past (http://www.antiquiet.com/news/2012/12/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-trent-reznors-new-yorker-profile-but-were-afraid-to-ask/).

[allegro]

Then there's this interview (http://www.uncut.co.uk/nine-inch-nails/interview-trent-reznor-feature).


And that hatred and isolation found expression in your music?

I found I could turn that into something. Instead of punching the wall and having my hand hurt, I could write it down. Strangely things came out of that seemed to have this catharsis. There was a beautiful element to it and it made me feel good. So I decided to keep doing that. When I wrote The Downward Spiral in 1993 I was five or six years into that experiment and it still worked.

The record was exploring a narrative about someone who systematically examines every aspect of their life and then destroys it on a path to trying to find some other solution. I'd started with that theme and fitted songs into the storyline, dealing with religion and sex and drugs and the record ended with some sort of conclusion that could have been suicide, but certainly wasn't a positive place.

The one song on that record that doesn't fit that description was Hurt, How did you write Hurt, which Johnny Cash famously covered...

The video he made of that song was overwhelming. When I saw it the power and beauty of music struck me in a really profound way. I was at a point in my life when I was really unsure if I was any good or if I had anything to say. The song came out of a really ugly corner of my mind and turned into something with a frail beauty. And then several years later an icon from a completely different world takes the song and juxtaposes himself into it in a way that seems more powerful to me than my own version. I was flattered as an artist and as a human being they could do that with my song. And it came at a very insecure time in my life and it felt like a nudge and boost and a hug from God. It said 'everything's OK and the world is bigger than what's just in my head.'

[NINisamazing]

He probably believes in god, just not organized religion.

[Inkling]

Sorry I brought it up, people. Wasn't trying to cause problems. I'm just exciting about the new album and thought I would start a new topic regarding something I've been thinking about lately.
I find it pretty amusing that your question seems to make people uncomfortable. Don´t think you should have to be sorry for it!

[Halo Infinity]

I probably should've posted this sooner, but this thread kept reminding me of this.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9cy-dOHCeA

And to add to the topic, Trent seemed to come across as an agnostic to me. (I'm not saying that he is, and I'd agree that it isn't any of my business either.)

[atinimaedigresyl]

What else do u think 9 inch nails are used for?

[Ryan]

From interview just posted in NIN Spotting:

http://www.theskinny.co.uk/music/features/307816-came_back_vaunted_interview_with_nine_inch_nails_t rent_reznor

ASK TRENT
BRODY DALLE: T-DOG, DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD?
“I do. I take comfort in thinking there’s some purpose and higher power of some sort. I’m not affiliated with any particular religion but that gives me some sense of comfort. I’ve had some dark days through the years and been through some shit that makes me think there is some reason here and it’s beyond just physics and biology.”

[sheepdean]

oh god please don't bring it back

[Ryan]

haha

ten chars

[howdidislipinto]

Ha! I was seriously thinking we should resuscitate this thread. I'm glad someone did it.

[Swykk]

Oh goddammit, not this again. Can I face palm an entire thread? This is like the last days of Meathead, where it was sad and not funny. You're good people, Ryan but I can't follow you on this one.

[howdidislipinto]

In these post-billpulsipher days, I'd probably go back and be nicer to that PaperThin guy.

[Ryan]

Oh goddammit, not this again. Can I face palm an entire thread? This is like the last days of Meathead, where it was sad and not funny. You're good people, Ryan but I can't follow you on this one.

I wouldn't have bumped it, except Trent just said that in an interview published today. Relevant!

[Tony Gordon]

Fuck religion

The end.

[eversonpoe]

Fuck religion

The end.

dude, i'm an atheist (and have been for two thirds of my life) but even that seemed a bit harsh.

yeah, most organized religions cause problems, but that doesn't mean everyone's interpretation of them is terrible.

also, you've been on this board for, like, two days, you've made less than 30 posts, and almost EVERY SINGLE ONE has been EXTREMELY negative and/or condescending.

we're all friends here, and we're all here to have intelligent discussions. calm down, try to be a little less negative, and join in on the fun.

[Little_Dreamer]

It's not like this is the biggest revelation ever. He said something about 'believing in a higher power' in an interview in the 90's (can't find it right now), so I really don't understand why this is supposed to be such big news.
Ever read the guys lyrics? He never came across as an atheist to me. Not the biggest lover of organized religion, yes. But not an atheist.

Anyway, honestly: does it really matter if he believes in God or not? Seriously?

[Ryan]

Yes. My life depends on it!

[m15a]

It's not like this is the biggest revelation ever. He said something about 'believing in a higher power' in an interview in the 90's (can't find it right now), so I really don't understand why this is supposed to be such big news.
Ever read the guys lyrics? He never came across as an atheist to me. Not the biggest lover of organized religion, yes. But not an atheist.

Anyway, honestly: does it really matter if he believes in God or not? Seriously?

I'm not sure if you're referring to the whole thread (which I didn't read) or just the recent article, but regarding the recent article, I think it's less about it being a shock - the article just answers the question definitively.

As to whether the question matters, it might help people interpret the lyrics if you're interested in connecting the lyrics to Trent's personal experiences. You might argue that the lyrics make it obvious that Trent believes in God, but you could also argue that the lyrics make it obvious that Trent is Christian or maybe even a specific Christian denomination.

[Jinsai]

For the most part, I don't really care what a musician I listen to believes. As long as they're not singing about it all the time. An unfortunate number of musicians that I like are Scientologists. Oh well.

[Little_Dreamer]

I'm not sure if you're referring to the whole thread (which I didn't read) or just the recent article, but regarding the recent article, I think it's less about it being a shock - the article just answers the question definitively.

The whole thread. I mean, there's 5 pages discussing the guys faith. It obviously is a big deal for some people.
I consider myself an atheist, and I couldn't care less about what other people believe in. I guess I just don't understand why others care so much about it.

[Emil Dorbell]

There's a huge difference between that quote, which is almost leaning towards agnostic, and being a follower of a specific religion. Myself, I believe that "unexplainable" or "supernatural" are just ways to describe things we haven't figured out scientifically yet. If we could prove God exists, he wouldn't be supernatural anymore, would he?

[m15a]

The whole thread. I mean, there's 5 pages discussing the guys faith. It obviously is a big deal for some people.
I consider myself an atheist, and I couldn't care less about what other people believe in. I guess I just don't understand why others care so much about it.

Skimming the thread, it looks like a lot of people were interested in it as it relates to the meaning of the lyrics. (Plus a bunch of "who cares?" posts. Plus a few oversimplified explanations of various religions.) Maybe there are some posts mixed in that care "too much" about Trent's beliefs but, eh, why are other people's interest in Trent's beliefs such a big deal to you? (Rhetorical question.)

[Little_Dreamer]

Skimming the thread, it looks like a lot of people were interested in it as it relates to the meaning of the lyrics. (Plus a bunch of "who cares?" posts. Plus a few oversimplified explanations of various religions.) Maybe there are some posts mixed in that care "too much" about Trent's beliefs but, eh, why are other people's interest in Trent's beliefs such a big deal to you? (Rhetorical question.)

No idea ;) It's not the interest itself that annoys me, more the seemingly endless discussions about it.
Ah I don't know, maybe I'm just in a pissy mood today. It's raining, I'm tired and my boss is pissing me off big time right now

Edit: also, I can get hung up on stupid little things and forget to look at the bigger picture. Plus, english isn't my first language, so it's sometimes difficult for me to explain myself the way I want to. Sorry if what I wrote came across the wrong way.

[niggo]

I can't wrap my head around the amount of people who still believe in God. Don't get me wrong, it's totally okay and it's good for them, but I think in this day and age it's kinda strange. Whether it be organized religion or simply the belief in a higher power, I for one would never find any comfort in such things - and it's hard for me to identify with people who do.

I mean, being on this forum I think it's safe to say that we're all obsessed with NIN in some kind of way, so naturally Trent's beliefs ARE interesting. I don't like his music any less because he's believing in some sort of a God, but, you know, deep down I wish the artist I admire the most would share the same view as me.

I dunno.

[allegro]

I can't wrap my head around the amount of people who still believe in God. Don't get me wrong, it's totally okay and it's good for them, but I think in this day and age it's kinda strange. Whether it be organized religion or simply the belief in a higher power, I for one would never find any comfort in such things - and it's hard for me to identify with people who do.
it's hard for me to identify with people who can't even identify with people who do. What's so fucking hard about a superior life force? Not hairy thunderer Christian life force, but a DeGrasse Tyson-acceptable life force. Even fucking Einstein had Spinoza's God.

I believe in God, but I do not participate in (or support the concept of) an organized religion. Yet, I'm educated, intelligent, and a well-rounded individual. It doesn't affect anyone else; only me.

I think this thread is kinda like Stanley Fish's reader's response, lol.

[ophelia_]

Fuck religion

The end.

Congrats. I just lost my facepalm virginity to you.

I don't consider myself religious, but unless anyone is forcing their religion onto you, which Trent certainly isn't, then I don't see the need to make such statements. It just makes you seem narrow minded and ignorant.

[niggo]

it's hard for me to identify with people who can't even identify with people who do. What's so fucking hard about a superior life force?

Absolutely nothing. It's okay that people believe in that. Really. Although there's not a great difference for me between the Christian God and any other superior life force.

You know, it's certainly not my business to identify with people all over the world, whether they be religious or not. I just said that in regards to Trent. When I listen to his music, especially the more personal stuff, I guess I could say I'm kinda identifying myself with him in that song. And that's for example the reason I don't like some of the lyrics of Find My Way that much. "Oh dear Lord, hear my prayer" just doesn't resonate well with me. That's all.

[Emil Dorbell]

I believe in God, but I do not participate in (or support the concept of) an organized religion.

I think that people like yourself (or Trent) probably should say that they believe in a god, not the singular "God", as for a lot of people that'll make them instantly think of the christian God, which in turn suggests that you believe in the bible. Which I'm guessing neither you or Trent does.

[allegro]

I think that people like yourself (or Trent) probably should say that they believe in a god, not the singular "God", as for a lot of people that'll make them instantly think of the christian God, which in turn suggests that you believe in the bible. Which I'm guessing neither you or Trent does.

It's more complicated than that, especially since we were both raised according to those Christian beliefs. There's a kind of hybrid Christian spirituality brewing right now that's becoming a lot more common in this country, and it kind of cherry picks; a sort of Christian-Buddhist-Spiritual hybrid. The Bible is a piece of literature. The modern version of spirituality and purpose and a higher power comes from many sources of literature.

[theimage13]

Fuck religion

The end.

Fuck this sentiment. The end.

No, not the end, because a topic that affects the lives of billions of people doesn't get reduced to "fuck that, the end".

Here's where I stand. Raised Catholic, but spent most of my upbringing and a good deal of my early adult life being one of those "if you believe in God, you're stupid" people. Which I'm not proud of.

But then I started to get curious. I'd read an article about how scientists could use electrical current to predictably manipulate someone's body (i.e. if we apply this exact voltage/current to someone at this exact spot for this exact time, this movement will occur). Which made me start to think "our physical functions are basically just mechanical/electrical...so what makes us...well...us?" Then I dated someone who was earning their dual doctorate in immunology/pathology - an absolutely brilliant person who I can promise knows far more about the human body and biology than anybody on this board. And she was a devout Catholic who felt "an inexplicable comfort when [she] stepped into church". That made me even more curious. During that time period, I lost a family member, and in the 24 hours afterward, numerous inexplicable things happened to everyone in my family, myself included. Things that I normally would have been skeptical about, and made me think "okay, you're just making that up to push an agenda". The way that Tony is probably thinking about this post right now.

I used to roll my eyes when people said "how can you look at a sunset over the mountains and deny that God exists?", and I still sort of do. I roll my eyes when a child is murdered and someone says "it's okay, it was God's will". And I get outright furious when someone denies their child life saving medical attention because their religion forbids it. But now, I look at things with a much looser interpretation of what "god" is. When I stopped looking at God as a person and more as just some inexplicable force present in the universe that no human can fully comprehend while living, it made me much more open. I do not identify with any religion, and I can't honesty stand up and unwaveringly say "I believe in God". There are still things that make me doubtful, like the atheists' favorite "if there's a god, how could the Holocaust happen?". But just because I don't have the faith to believe in something I can't define or prove, doesn't mean I have to believe beyond a doubt that there isn't something I'm missing. And it definitely doesn't mean that I have a reason to go around saying "fuck you" to anyone who does believe.

For anyone who is either on the fence, or definitely doesn't believe but is at least interested in reading on the subject, C.S. Lewis' famous Mere Christianity is a terrific read. Yes, it discusses one particular religion, but the opening chapters lay the groundwork for his argument on the existence of God. And given that he had been a staunch Atheist for years, it makes it easier to identify with for those who are skeptical.

Final note: "fuck that"? Trent went from "God is dead and no one cares" while he was high as a kite, and too drugged out to even stand up (literally) and remember the words to his songs. Suddenly, it's "oh dear lord, hear my prayer", and he's married, in fantastic shape, sober, and winning major awards while juggling two different bands and a career in film scoring. I'm not saying "God magically made Trent a better person and gave him great stuff". I don't believe that's how religion works. But if finding faith gives you the strength to better yourself and accomplish great things, how in the world can you say "fuck that?"

[Omega]

Alls I gotta say is that if Trent was a Born Again Christian, he'd make the coolest sounding Christian music ever!

[allegro]

Trent went from "God is dead and no one cares"
The Downward Spiral is a concept album with a protagonist. That protagonist is most certainly not Trent Reznor; he may certainly contain some elements of Trent Reznor, but Trent Reznor, himself, has indicated in interviews that the protagonist in TDS is not him, personally. The protagonist in TDS says "YOUR God is dead" (big hairy thunderer Old Testament God). The protagonist in TDS on one hand says "if there is a Hell, I'll see you there" but then says that "Angels bleed from the tainted touch of my caress." I think that TDS (and the entire NIN catalog up through TDS) is a good example of Trent Reznor's knowledge of (and obsession with) good vs. evil, sin, temptation, madonna/whore, etc.

[allegro]

I used to roll my eyes when people said "how can you look at a sunset over the mountains and deny that God exists?", and I still sort of do.
That's because you only define "God" as the Biblical God and not as a universal collective God that perhaps our relatively limited mind cannot grasp. What if God is, say, like the Q on ST:TNG? Or what if God is the Universe, itself? What if the Universe is far more complex than we understand? What if the Universe has a personality, has some kind of ability to "love" us? What if God has no control over how the Universe or our planet works? Earth clearly is an uninhabitable and hostile place and it's lucky that we're able to live here. Maybe we are just a bunch of chemicals and energy that is a part of the Universe? What if that Biblical God and this other God kind of overlap?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVBEDl0qr4U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovlrV7SoPCo

[m15a]

I think that people like yourself (or Trent) probably should say that they believe in a god, not the singular "God", as for a lot of people that'll make them instantly think of the christian God, which in turn suggests that you believe in the bible. Which I'm guessing neither you or Trent does.

I see that you're from Sweden, and I can only speak for usage in American English, but God means more than "a god, and I'm Christian." It sounds like you're asking people to change what they're saying just to satisfy some people's the preconceptions. It'd be like if someone told me that I shouldn't call myself "American"* because people will assume I'm white - that I should say "American resident" or something like that. That's also true, but it doesn't have the same meaning. And the suggestion and its implications (that the "majority" should be assumed to be normal or the standard) are pretty offensive.

* I know there are issues with using "American" to mean someone from the US. It's just the example that came to mind.

EDIT: Ugh. Can't believe I got pulled into reading this thread.

[theimage13]

That's because you only define "God" as the Biblical God and not as a universal collective God that perhaps our relatively limited mind cannot grasp. What if God is, say, like the Q on ST:TNG? Or what if God is the Universe, itself?

Did you even read the whole paragraph that I wrote? Allow me a brief refresher:



I used to roll my eyes when people said "how can you look at a sunset over the mountains and deny that God exists?", and I still sort of do. I roll my eyes when a child is murdered and someone says "it's okay, it was God's will". And I get outright furious when someone denies their child life saving medical attention because their religion forbids it. But now, I look at things with a much looser interpretation of what "god" is. When I stopped looking at God as a person and more as just some inexplicable force present in the universe that no human can fully comprehend while living, it made me much more open.

The people who have personally told me the whole "sunset" spiel are people who are extremely religious, and are talking about God in the biblical sense. That's one reason why I roll my eyes - they ARE telling me that "the one and only God almighty, maker of heaven and earth" is this biblical being that created the universe. But even when looking at it from a more open perspective, ie what you and I are both talking about, seeing a beautiful sunset doesn't constitute proof of anything to me. All it proves to me is that the universe, while terrifyingly large and full of things that are out to kill us, can also sometimes be beautiful. But it doesn't necessarily prove that a "god" of any kind exists. It's that sort of black and white blanket statement of "x proves y" - when it really doesn't - that makes me roll my eyes.

[allegro]

Did you even read the whole paragraph that I wrote?
Yes. I did.

I don't get why any of that would compel you to "roll your eyes."

[theimage13]

I don't get why any of that would compel you to "roll your eyes."

Because A: it's tremendously overused (I hear it a LOT), and B: it seems like a cop-out; a lazy man's way of trying to justify something. Believe in God/a god? Give me something more than "that's pretty, therefore there must be some universal force that controls everything in existence". It works just the opposite as well - those antagonizing people who say "oh, well then clearly there's a flying spaghetti monster because you can't prove there isn't" irritate me.

[allegro]

I have never met anyone who used a sunrise as proof of "God's" existence, so I'm afraid I don't know what you're talking about. Plenty of us have a very spiritual relationship with nature (see Emerson, Thoreau, Whitman* or Native American spiritualism).

Anyway, we HAVE a religion thread. This is the Trent Reznor believes in God thread.


* see transcendentalism (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendentalism).

[WorzelG]

So long as he doesn't go all Dave Mustaine supporting right wing presidential candidates and anti gay marriage etc I'm easy

[BrownEyedStatistic]

I religion is like...a road map.

*walks away*

[BenAkenobi]

is this proper topic to ask what "lick around divine debris" was supposed to mean?

[slave2thewage]

is this proper topic to ask what "lick around divine debris" was supposed to mean?
I always assumed it was part of the Icarus imagery in that track.

[sheepdean]

I assumed it was a reference to cunnilingus

[Halo Infinity]

But if finding faith gives you the strength to better yourself and accomplish great things, how in the world can you say "fuck that?"
It took me a while to consider that at some point, but I'm sure he was referring to all of the other bad things you've mentioned. However, I'll admit that there could've been a far better way and thread to state it in. I still get it though, as there are things in religion that can make any of us say "Fuck that!", but I won't argue against or deride any actual virtues. I actually just took it more as a joke even though it was a bad one. (I've also checked out a lot of religious satire on Facebook and YouTube, so I kind of got used to it, but I can see why such jokes are obviously a big fuck you.)

As for Trent Reznor's belief in God, I was always interested in that, as I was not only curious, but also because he's always come across as an agnostic to me, but after seeing more interviews, I'd obviously have to reconsider. (I still agree with what most people said here, and I also don't have any problems with religious people as long as they're not forcing anything on me.)

I also understand that God doesn't always have to mean God from the Bible and Christianity, which also took me a while to get until I looked up other beliefs outside of the Seventh-day Adventist Church a long time ago, which is the belief I was reared in. From my understanding, I think I'm an agnostic right now. I also recall Trent admiring and becoming inspired and comforted by the power of belief. I don't remember where the exact interview was on the Internet, but it was somewhere around the With Teeth era in late 2005 or early 2006 if I'm not mistaken.

Oh, and when I looked up Trent Reznor and religion, I noticed that some sources actually state that he was reared as a Catholic, yet some sources also claim that he was reared as a Protestant. Anyway, I was also just merely curious, but that's what I saw.

[BrownEyedStatistic]

I'd say he's agnostic and close the book on this one ;D

[allegro]

I'd say he's agnostic and close the book on this one ;D

He just SAID he believed in God. Why don't we just say he worships Satan and close the book?

[BrownEyedStatistic]

Oh, you thought I didn't read that? Of course I did.
I'm just expressing that I wouldn't have tried to find out.
I would have just made an assumption and left it at that since I don't find it important.
Now calm your nerves peasant.

[BrownEyedStatistic]

He just SAID he believed in God. Why don't we just say he worships Satan and close the book?
Yes let's do that. And add some conspiracies to spice things up. I can definitely see some fanfiction coming out of that idea.

:D
And lets make ridiculous claims that make entirely no sense for the hell of it. (Haha I said hell)

I like how emphasized "SAID". It's like the fan in you got annoyed for a moment. You must have to deal with a lot of idiots.

What does allegro mean by the way? I'm curious. Is it related to satanism?

And why satanism of all things? Have you tried it out? If you actually are one, what type are you?

Wow you're been on this site a long time? Have you ever come across satanists here???

Did any of them wonder if Trent was one too?

[allegro]

His login here was Teitan which means Satan. And he allegedly followed Aleister Crowley. So it's not really all that far fetched.

I think we had a few threads devoted to it on the old board.

Hint: if people use all caps in one single word, here, they're not necessarily getting all aggro, sometimes it's just for emphasis.

[BrownEyedStatistic]

His login here was Teitan which means Satan. And he allegedly followed Aleister Crowley. So it's not really all that far fetched.

I think we had a few threads devoted to it on the old board.

Now I'm really intrigued tell me more. :D
A lot of people see satanism as such a bad religion, but I'm convinced that public have only seen the more extreme groups doing ridiculous things. And of course, opposing groups don't like seeing their opposites in a good light. :D

What else do you know? I'm curious. :DDDD

[allegro]

Well, and there was that Anton LaVey stuff with Manson.

[BrownEyedStatistic]

Well, and there was that Anton LaVey stuff with Manson.

Ah, yes. I recall finding out a bit about it on the well. Anton LaVey seemed to have been quite the character.
I don't think I'll ever delve into satanism. But I believe some the philosophies it carries are worth keeping.

[allegro]

I don't believe in satan, myself.

I guess the purpose of this thread, though, was whether or not TR believes in God (or, if you are Jewish, G-d). Evidently, he's explored several options, LOL.

[Ryan]

His login here was Teitan which means Satan. And he allegedly followed Aleister Crowley. So it's not really all that far fetched.

Interesting.

Thus, altogether independent of historical evidence on this point, we are brought to the irresistible conclusion that the worship of Rome is one vast system of Devil-worship. If it be once admitted that the Pope is the head of the beast from the sea, we are bound, on the mere testimony of God, without any other evidence whatever, to receive this as a fact, that, consciously or unconsciously, those who worship the Pope are actually worshipping the Devil. But, in truth, we have historical evidence, and that of a very remarkable kind, that the Pope, as head of the Chaldean Mysteries, is a directly the representative of Satan, as he is of the false Messiah of Babylon. It was long ago noticed by Irenaeus, about the end of the second century, that the name Teitan contained the Mystic number 666; and he gave it as his opinion that Teitan was "by far the most probably name" of the beast from the sea. * The grounds of his opinion, as stated by him, do not carry much weight; but the opinion itself he may have derived from others who had better and more valid reasons for their belief on this subject. Now, on inquiry, it will actually be found, that while Saturn was the name of the visible head, Teitan was the name of the invisible head of the beast. Teitan is just the Chaldean form of Sheitan, * the very name by which Satan has been called from time immemorial by the Devil-worshippers of Kurdistan; * and from Armenia or Kurdistan, this Devil-worship embodied in the Chaldean Mysteries came westward to Asia Minor, and thence to Etruria and Rome. That Teitan was actually known by the classic nations of antiquity to be Satan, or the spirit of wickedness, and originator of moral evil, we have the following proofs: The history of Teitan and his brethren, as given in Homer and Hesiod, the two earliest of all the Greek writers, although later legends are obviously mixed up with it, is evidently the exact counterpart of the Scriptural account of Satan and his angels. Homer says, that "all the gods of Tartarus," or Hell, "were called Teitans." * Hesiod tells us how these Teitans, or "gods of hell," came to have their dwelling there. The chief of them having committed a certain act of wickedness against his father, the supreme god of heaven, with the sympathy of many others of the "sons of heaven," that father "called them all by an opprobrious name, Teitans," * pronounced a curse upon them, and then, in consequence of that curse, they were "cast down to hell," and "bound in chains of darkness" in the abyss. * While this is the earliest account of Teitan and his followers among the Greeks, we find that, in the Chaldean system, Teitan was just a synonym for Typhon, the malignant Serpent or Dragon, who was universally regarded as the Devil, or author of all wickedness. It was Typhon, according to the Pagan version of the story, that killed Tammuz, and cut him in pieces; but Lactantius, who was thoroughly acquainted with the subject, upbraids his Pagan countrymen for "worshipping a child torn in pieces by the Teitans." * It is undeniable, then, that Teitan, in Pagan belief, was identical with the Dragon, or Satan. *


In the Mysteries, as formerly hinted, an important change took place as soon as the way was paved for it. First, Tammuz was worshipped as the bruiser of the serpent's head, meaning thereby that he was the appointed destroyer of Satan's kingdom. Then the dragon himself, or Satan, came to receive a certain measure of worship, to "console him," as the Pagans said, "for the loss of his power," and to prevent him from hurting them; * and last of all the dragon, or Teitan or Satan, became the supreme object of worship, the Titania, or rites of Teitan, occupying a prominent place in the Egyptian Mysteries, * and also in those of Greece. * How vitally important was the place that these rites of Teitan or Satan occupied, may be judged of from the fact that Pluto, the god of Hell (who, in his ultimate character, was just the grand Adversary), was looked up to with awe and dread as the great god on whom the destinies of mankind in the eternal world did mainly depend; for it was said that to Pluto it belonged "to purify souls after death." * Purgatory having been in Paganism, as it is in Popery, the grand hinge of priestcraft and superstition, what a power did this opinion attribute to the "god of Hell"! No wonder that the serpent, the Devil's grand instrument in seducing mankind, was in all the earth worshipped with such extraordinary reverence, it being laid down in the Octateuch of Ostanes, that "serpents were the supreme of all gods and the princes of the Universe." * No wonder that it came at last to be firmly believed that the Messiah, on whom the hopes of the world depended, was Himself the "seed of the serpent"! This was manifestly the case in Greece; for the current story there came to be, that the first Bacchus was brought forth in consequence of a connexion on the part of his mother with the father of the gods, in the form of a "speckled snake." * That "father of the gods" was manifestly "the god of hell;" for Proserpine, the mother of Bacchus, that miraculously conceived and brought forth the wondrous child--whose rape by Pluto occupied such a place in the Mysteries--was worshipped as the wife of the god of Hell, as we have already seen, under the name of the "Holy Virgin." * The story of the seduction of Eve * by the serpent is plainly imported into this legend, as Julius Firmicus and the early Christian apologists did with great force cast in the teeth of the Pagans of their day; but very different is the colouring given to it in the Pagan legend from that which it has in the Divine Word. Thus the grand Thimblerigger, by dexterously shifting the peas, through means of men who began with great professions of abhorrence of his character, got himself almost everywhere recognised as in very deed "the god of this world." So deep and so strong was the hold that Satan had contrived to get of the ancient world in this character, that even when Christianity had been proclaimed to man, and the true light had shone from Heaven, the very doctrine we have been considering raised its head among the professed disciples of Christ. Those who held this doctrine were called Ophiani or Ophites, that is, serpent-worshippers. "These heretics," says Tertullian, "magnify the serpent to such a degree as to prefer him even to Christ Himself; for he, say they, gave us the first knowledge of good and evil. It was from a perception of his power and majesty that Moses was induced to erect the brazen serpent, to which whosoever looked was healed. Christ Himself, they affirm, in the Gospel imitates the sacred power of the serpent, when He says that, 'As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness even so much the Son of Man be lifted up.' * They introduced it when they bless the Eucharist." These wicked heretics avowedly worshipped the old serpent, or Satan, as the grand benefactor of mankind, for revealing to them the knowledge of good and evil. But this doctrine they had just brought along with them from the Pagan world, from which they had come, or from the Mysteries, as they came to be received and celebrated in Rome. Though Teitan, in the days of Hesiod and in early Greece, was an "opprobrious name," yet in Rome, in the days of the Empire and before, it had become the very reverse. "The splendid or glorious Teitan" was the way in which Teitan was spoken of at orb of day and viewed as a divinity. Now, the reader has seen already that another form of the sun-divinity, or Teitan, at Rome, was the Epidaurian snake, worshipped under the name of "AEsculapius," that is, "the man-instructing serpent." * Here, then, in Rome was Teitan, or Satan, identified with the "serpent that taught mankind," that opened their eyes (when, of course, they were blind), and gave them "the knowledge of good and evil." In Pergamos, and in all Asia Minor, from which directly Rome derived its knowledge of the Mysteries, the case was the same. In Pergamos, especially, where pre-eminently "Satan's seat was," the sun-divinity, as is well known, was worshipped under the form of a serpent and under the name of AEsculapius, "the man-instructing serpent." According to the fundamental doctrine of the Mysteries, as brought from Pergamos to Rome, the sun was the one only god. * Teitan, or Satan, then, was thus recognised as the one only god; and of that only god, Tammuz or Janus, in his character as the Son, or the woman's seed, was just an incarnation. Here, then, the grand secret of the Roman Empire is at last brought to light--viz., the real name of the tutelar divinity of Rome. That secret was most jealously guarded; insomuch that when Valerius Soranus, a man of the highest rank, and, as Cicero declared, "the most learned of the Romans," had incautiously divulged it, he was remorselessly put to death for his revelation. Now, however, it stands plainly revealed. A symbolical representation of the worship of the Roman people, from Pompeii, strikingly confirms this deduction by evidence that appeals to the very senses. Let the reader cast his eyes on the woodcut herewith given . * We have seen already that it is admitted by the author of Pompeii, in regard to a former representation, that the serpents in the under compartment are only another way of exhibiting the dark divinities represented in the upper compartment. Let the same principle be admitted here, and it follows that the swallows, or birds pursuing the flies, represent the same thing as the serpents do below. But the serpent, of which there is a double representation, is unquestionably the serpent of AEsculapius. The fly-destroying swallow, therefore, must represent the same divinity. Now, every one knows what was the name by which "the Lord of the fly," or fly-destroying god of the Oriental world was called. It was Beel-zebub. * This name, as signifying "Lord of the Fly," to the profane meant only the power that destroying the swarms of flies when these became, as they often did in hot countries, a source of torment to the people whom they invaded. But this name, as identified with the serpent, clearly reveals itself as one of the distinctive names of Satan. And how appropriate is this name, when its mystic or esoteric meaning is penetrated. What is the real meaning of this familiar name? Baal-zebub just means "The restless Lord," * even that unhappy one who "goeth to and fro in the earth, and walketh up and down in it," who "goeth through dry places seeking rest, and finding none." From all this, the inference is unavoidable that Satan, in his own proper name, must have been the great god of their secret and mysterious worship, and this accounts for the extraordinary mystery observed on the subject. * When, therefore, Gratian abolished the legal provision for the support of the fire-worship and serpent-worship of Rome, we see how exactly the Divine prediction was fulfilled (Rev. xii. 9): "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent called the DEVIL, and SATAN, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." * Now, as the Pagan Pontifex, to whose powers and prerogatives the Pope and served himself heir, was thus the High-priest of Satan, so, when the Pope entered into a league and alliance with that system of Devil-worship, and consented to occupy the very position of that Pontifex, and to bring all its abominations into the Church, as he has done, he necessarily became the Prime Minister of the Devil, and, of course, come as thoroughly under his power as ever the previous Pontiff had been. * How exact the fulfilment of the Divine statement that the coming of the Man of Sin was to be "after the working or energy of Satan." Here, then, is the grand conclusion to which we are compelled, both on historical and Scriptural grounds, to come: As the mystery of godliness is God manifest in the flesh, so the mystery of iniquity is--so far as such a thing is possible--the Devil incarnate. 2bab035.htm

[BrownEyedStatistic]

I don't believe in satan, myself.

I guess the purpose of this thread, though, was whether or not TR believes in God (or, if you are Jewish, G-d). Evidently, he's explored several options, LOL.
Yes indeed and I have strayed for from the purpose.

I guess just dabbling in pool of darkness again. :DDDDD

[allegro]

That's okay, this whole thread is a pool of darkness

[BrownEyedStatistic]

That was a very interesting read.

I'll have to transfer the text to my word-processing program so I can better analyze it.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Are people really losing their shit in this thread over whether TR believes in god?

Oh the lolz

[Emil Dorbell]

I see that you're from Sweden, and I can only speak for usage in American English, but God means more than "a god, and I'm Christian." It sounds like you're asking people to change what they're saying just to satisfy some people's the preconceptions. It'd be like if someone told me that I shouldn't call myself "American"* because people will assume I'm white - that I should say "American resident" or something like that. That's also true, but it doesn't have the same meaning. And the suggestion and its implications (that the "majority" should be assumed to be normal or the standard) are pretty offensive.

* I know there are issues with using "American" to mean someone from the US. It's just the example that came to mind.

EDIT: Ugh. Can't believe I got pulled into reading this thread.

I still believe we could use more ways to express our spiritual or religious views. Using the same word for different things obviously gets confusing fast. This thread is already full of "the biblical God" to avoid said confusion. I guess another offensive part of my post is the implication that if you believe some of the bible, you must believe all of it. I confess to being narrow minded for thinking that.

[m15a]

I still believe we could use more ways to express our spiritual or religious views. Using the same word for different things obviously gets confusing fast. This thread is already full of "the biblical God" to avoid said confusion. I guess another offensive part of my post is the implication that if you believe some of the bible, you must believe all of it. I confess to being narrow minded for thinking that.

Yeah, I agree that people should be more descriptive when they talk about something complicated, which religion and belief definitely is. But the more "fair" way of doing that is for the speaker to not assume that the listener is assigning a more specific meaning to what they're saying and for the listener to not assume any more specific meaning until it's given. That requires that everyone is aware of their preconceptions, though. And that's difficult.

[BrownEyedStatistic]

He could be pastafarian for all I know.

[ZootZap]

He could be just a man with spiritually sense. The rest is privacy.

[laz001]

http://www.theskinny.co.uk/music/features/307816-came_back_vaunted_interview_with_nine_inch_nails_t rent_reznor

Fact settled



ASK TRENT
BRODY DALLE: T-DOG, DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD?
“I do. I take comfort in thinking there’s some purpose and higher power of some sort. I’m not affiliated with any particular religion but that gives me some sense of comfort. I’ve had some dark days through the years and been through some shit that makes me think there is some reason here and it’s beyond just physics and biology.”

[allegro]

http://www.theskinny.co.uk/music/features/307816-came_back_vaunted_interview_with_nine_inch_nails_t rent_reznor

Fact settled

Yeah we established that, see post #122 on May 6th (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/2063-Trent-Reznor-and-Belief-in-God?p=183633#post183633).

[staleincense]

In these post-billpulsipher days, I'd probably go back and be nicer to that PaperThin guy.
What happened to our good friend bill!? :(

[tony_crisp]

http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/vessel/squares/avatar350_1.gif (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/members/350-sheepdean)sheepdean (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/members/350-sheepdean)
http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/images/statusicon/user-offline.pngJosh Wink wrote Year Zero




Join DateDec 2011LocationLondonPosts2,444Mentioned42 Post(s)



I assumed it was a reference to cunnilingus




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haha "ophelia likes this"

[sheepdean]

what is that

[ophelia_]

... Should I not like that?

[sheepdean]

I have no idea, but it's about as chaotic and pointless as this entire thread

[tony.parente]

Chaotic? Thats awful dramatic.

[m15a]

Chaotic? Thats awful dramatic.

about as dramatic and awful as this entire thread

;)

[Halo Infinity]

Dare I say, I've always found this topic to be very interesting, but I could also see how the way it started wasn't so good.

[Rabbit]

http://www.theskinny.co.uk/music/features/307816-came_back_vaunted_interview_with_nine_inch_nails_t rent_reznor

Fact settled

oh for fuck sakes Trent. Maybe he's hanging around Dave grohl too much.

If he starts wearing a cross around his neck I'm out.

[BRoswell]

If he starts wearing a cross around his neck I'm out.

Considering his disdain for organized religion, I don't think you have to worry about that.

[Rabbit]

Considering his disdain for organized religion, I don't think you have to worry about that.
Who knows, people change after kids.

[BRoswell]

I still don't see Trent jumping on the Jesus Train though. I don't think his beliefs have really changed over the years. The only real difference now is that he's more open about them.

[DVYDRNS]

You heard it here first folks! Trent reznor believes in himself!


Trent reznor is GOD!!!! OMTR

[too_long_DR]

I realize that this is going to be a taboo subject, but let's face it--signs are pointing in the direction that Trent may have found religion in some capacity. His recent tweet about "God was competing with our light show" and one of the lyrics in "Find my way" is "pray the Lord, my soul to take," which has Christian roots. Nevertheless, I'm curious as to if NIN fans like this, or don't. Many will be in denial about this, but I think that it's a good thing that he has found God, again, in some form or fashion.

As others have posted, there is a difference between finding God and finding religion. I have read interviews with TR where he admits to a personal belief in God, but does not subscribe to a particular religion or denomination/creed regarding that God.

Since songs like Heresy and Vessel are part of the NIN catalogue, it is safe to assume that many fans are athiest, and therefore the very existance of a Christian (or Muslim, or Hindu etc) NIN fan is a source of controversy.

It seems like Reznor has struggled with the God debate for a long time and somewhat recently found peace, but the bottom line is that it's up to him regarding how much of his spiritual philosophy is made public and we should all respect that.

[sheepdean]

it is safe to assume that many fans are athiest, and therefore the very existance of a Christian (or Muslim, or Hindu etc) NIN fan is a source of controversy.
Only controversy started by dicks imo.


Why am I in this thread.

[too_long_DR]

I agree sheepdan. Spirituality is more a matter of personal business than internet identity (or should be, at least).

[Volk]

Sorry, but there isn't any discernable difference between "god" and "religion". It's like saying "I hate ketchup, but I love tomatoes". It is all superstition, and utter nonsense. It's too bad if Trent has finally become too lazy to realize the difference. I guess the pressures of celebrity eventually caused him to turn to delusion. I'm still a huge fan tho, so whatever.

[implanted_microchip]

Lyrics from La Mer:

And when the day arrives
I will become the sky
And I will become the sea

And the sea will come to kiss me

For the mods will finally lock this dumbass thread

[sheepdean]

Sorry, but there isn't any discernable difference between "god" and "religion". It's like saying "I hate ketchup, but I love tomatoes". It is all superstition, and utter nonsense. It's too bad if Trent has finally become too lazy to realize the difference. I guess the pressures of celebrity eventually caused him to turn to delusion. I'm still a huge fan tho, so whatever.
..I hate tomatoes to the extent that I can't eat them, but I love ketchup. Your analogy is bad, not just for that reason but because religion is a system of beliefs and a way of life. It's not just knowing/believing in god, it's a framework around that.

[icecream]

I still don't see Trent jumping on the Jesus Train though.
I'm picturing a Great Depression era Trent jumping onto a train conducted by Jesus.

[Halo Infinity]

I've always thought this topic was always a thing because for quite some time it seemed that lots of people have assumed that Trent Reznor was an atheist or an agnostic from the 1990s to the early 2000s. Perhaps somebody should also get this changed.

http://www.celebatheists.com/wiki/Trent_Reznor

At least we now know that he certainly believes in God, and that he didn't seem to have any problems admitting it. I'm also amazed that this thread has lasted so long. I still don't mind it, but I can also see why there are lots of other members that are tired of this topic.

[voidnz]

I'd say he probably has beliefs. I don't think Trent's ever had a problem with beliefs, but a problem with religion. I'm going to go out on a limb and say he probably hasn't become a born again Christian but he's a lot happier these days so, chances are he probably believes in a higher power. His lyrics throughout his career seem to suggest these thoughts to me anyway.

Anyway I don't think peoples beliefs should be anyone else's business, which is why I find religion of any kind to be offensive. People should believe in what they want to believe in and that's that.

[sheepdean]

I think anyone who consults a list of celebrity atheists probably isn't going to take something as simple as the artist's word to accept they're not actually atheists :P

[elevenism]

i identify as a christian and yet i can't fucking stand people who call themselves christians in general.
ultimately, i don't think we can FULLY even begin to conceive of "god" in this life and dimension.
as far as trent goes, well hell, his "belief in god" is nothing new, right?
-HEY GOD! why are you doing this to me?
-god himself will reach his fucking arm through...

disdain for a creative force and belief in it aren't mutually exclusive

and jesus, Ryan , did you actually WRITE all that shit in the post a page or two back? i swear to god i'm gonna finish reading it tomorrow.

[Ryan]

lol no, it was a copy/paste.

[allegro]

I think anyone who consults a list of celebrity atheists probably isn't going to take something as simple as the artist's word to accept they're not actually atheists :P
Ha yeah it's called "unreliable narrator."

[elevenism]

Holy shit, so billy corgan is throwing jesus at people now? can't he cut jesus a break?
and then i could have SWORN that around the time bullet with butterfly wings came out, billy was saying
"wait, i MEANT to be like Marilyn Manson...seriously, check it out, i'm scary and evil!"
and THEN while looking for that interview, i found this!

http://www.twentyfourbit.com/2009/07/marilyn-manson-says-trent-reznor-jealous-of-kurt/

Marilyn Manson says Trent Reznor says he's jealous of Kurt Cobain.
If we could just get Evan Dando in there, it would be like a bunch of guys in high school fighting over a girl named Courtney Love. Lolz.

And i read earlier in the thread that Dave from Megadeth is espousing right wing ideology, or at least supporting right wing candidates?
Hell has frozen over.

I can't STAND it that christianity and the right go hand in hand.
I know i'm stepping on someone's toes here, and i'm not out to hurt anyone's feelers, but for me, the right=ayn rand=non-theistic satanism.

at least i learned a lot reading this thread.

[allegro]

Holy shit, so billy corgan is throwing jesus at people now?
He's more of a Christian / Buddhist / spirituality hybrid.

[elevenism]

He's more of a Christian / Buddhist / spirituality hybrid.

you've brought that up before, the "east- meets-west" buffet style "spirituality" popping up here and there. Care to enlighten me?
i may have a BIT of that going on...my copy of The Science of Self Realization by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the man who brought Krisna to the west, is FAR more well thumbed than any of my bibles. I've often looked to it in times of stress or crisis.

Have you ever heard of Acharya S, allegro ?
I really think that her ideas would stimulate the HELL out of your mind. Check her out at http://www.truthbeknown.com/.

[allegro]

you've brought that up before, the "east- meets-west" buffet style "spirituality" popping up here and there. Care to enlighten me?
You can be a Christian and read Zen Buddhism books at the same time. It's that simple. There's no special formula for educated people who like to read lots of stuff. It isn't like you lose your Jesus card the minute you read anything by Buddha. And even "Christian" is a loose term these days. Some people loosely believe that Jesus was a prophet sent here by some higher force for the good of man, but they don't sit and read the Bible as the "word of 'God'" the way other "Christians" do and that's okay, too. Because "Christian" is far too "organized religion" for lots of people, and "Christian" is tied to hundreds of years of bloodshed and politics and negative things for others. This is highly personal thing that many people prefer not to discuss (including, it appears, Billy Corgan, although he is currently writing a book)

[elevenism]

I guess i use the term christian kind of loosely, because i try to follow the teachings of christ, but i'll admit, i'm not 100% sure about John 3:16. I think it's odd that people boiled the whole thing down to that one verse. But for me, even if it happened in an alternate dimension, that's good enough.
i can't see every bit of the bible as the inspired word of God when we know about the Council of Nicea in 325 and shit like that.
But see, luckily, i was raised Disciples of Christ. I TOTALLY fucked it off and found it again in the past couple of years with the mrs, who also was raised in the same relatively small sect. Our church believes that each one's interpretation of the whole thing is VERY personal. We agree on the Jesus thing and that's IT. It's just about as laid back as it gets.
But yes, bloodshed and politics and millions of fucking hypocritical morons.
Like i keep saying, i'm an altruist who believes in forgiveness and acceptance, and i'm REALLY into metaphysics/gnosis/studying belief systems etc.

My ex was half Japanese, and she combined Jesus and Buddha into one VERY hard to please deity. Jesus was Buddha and that was that...no confusion for her. But at the same time, in her family's sect of Buddhism, the spirit of the Buddha lived in this box that we kept in our one room apartment. So we worshiped Buddha from time to time...i think it kept her connected to her roots. She was also into studying the bible. People are strange, myself included.
But this is the trent reznor and god thread...i digress.
I will say this...the first time i tried monotheism on for size was when i took what i thought was just going to be a "break" from witchcraft to work the AA steps so i wouldn't die. And i never went back to practicing ritual magic or worshiping a little god/goddess pantheon.
I wonder if this is what happened to Trent. AA calls for you to do all this DEEP psychological shit involving GOD. They tell you at first that it's just a "higher power" and it can be the coke machine or whatever, but it kinda turns out that that is utter horse shit. I swear to god it's a religion and it's based on christianity. i used to bring that up in meetings, that it was a religion, and it would piss people off. But the supreme court sure agreed...they can't legally sentence you to it anymore, because it's a religion.

Maybe trent started singing more kindly about "god" because his "god" helped him get sober, or maybe he heard an insane amount of "god" talk in aa. While i'm rambling and discussing this, one thing that is utterly fucking baffling to me is people's inability to differentiate the word "god" from the name "YHVH. But again, i digress.

What i REALLY wanna know, allegro, is if THIS:
Some people loosely believe that Jesus was a profit
was a, how you say, Freudian slip, or a spelling error? :p

[Sarah K]

I couldn't give two fucks about this. Until Trent puts out a gospel record and starts preaching to me about saving myself, I don't give ANY SHITS what he personally believes. I don't understand why anyone would care.

Ya know, going through rehab and the 12 Steps and such usually ends up doing this to people. And if it works, THAT IS FINE. It is better than doing drugs.

[allegro]

What i REALLY wanna know, allegro, is if THIS:
was a, how you say, Freudian slip, or a spelling error? :p
No, I mean, like pass the basket!! :) PROFIT!!

(iPhone typo)

[DigitalChaos]

Honestly, Trent really hasn't referenced God any differently that I have... and I promise that I'm not only an atheist (agnostic if you want to be pedantic) but I would actually actively oppose the god depicted in the bible. I mean, how you can you not oppose childish fascistic tyranny of that level? I could see Trent having some uncategorized spiritual belief.

[DigitalChaos]

Also, is this the thread where I can talk about how Paul was a false prophet and the entire foundation of current Christianity is based mostly on Paul and not a whole lot of Jesus?

[allegro]

Honestly, Trent really hasn't referenced God any differently that I have... and I promise that I'm not only an atheist (agnostic if you want to be pedantic) but I would actually actively oppose the god depicted in the bible. I mean, how you can you not oppose childish fascistic tyranny of that level? I could see Trent having some uncategorized spiritual belief.
blah blah blah, you missed the first several pages in here wherein we cited Reznor texts and how he cites the devil in the back of his car, the extent of his sin, madonna / whore, angels bleeding at the tainted touch of his caress, et al., in which Trent Reznor's entire career (or, at least, the first several albums) as a NARRATOR was built on Christian religious traditions, devil vs. angel, etc. NARRATOR. Perhaps unreliable narrator, but narrator.

People tend to put their rock stars on personal pedestals and when they find out that their rock stars don't subscribe to the exact same beliefs because maybe those song lyrics weren't 100% autobiographical, they're strangely shocked. Which is bizarre. It's art. We are to separate the artist from the art. We are to separate ourselves from the artist.

[Omega]

If he starts wearing a cross around his neck I'm out.

Again NIN would make best Christian music ever! All The Sin on the forum would probably turn into All The Grace though;):).

NIN is the best always! Everything he does sounds awesome! I'd like to hear a spiritual NIN album, it would be off the chain, tellin ya:).

[Cleverfox]

He just SAID he believed in God. Why don't we just say he worships Satan and close the book?

Not sure , he is an artist ..they are very reflective passionate people.So he could believe in a creator use it to channel his passion...or he could be a hedonistic bot ..but if so he would have run out of energy by now.

[allegro]

Whoa, Lazarus thread.

[nihilmatters]

Whoa, Lazarus thread.

Sometimes miracles should be revoked.

[Krazy]

I must becoming dyslexic or something. I browsed the NIN thread titles and thought this said “Trent Reznor dog”.

Bummer.

[snaapz]

In some situations where we cannot explain something we must include 'God' in the list of possibilities. When studying, discussing, or theorizing the origin of the universe and life scientists will, more often than not, include God in the list of theories. Even though they discuss God, they will lean heavily towards God having no existence or role in anything; but they must still consider the possibility of a creator.

Trent Reznor is well known for his references to God and religion, he can pass blame on God; but he also acknowledges that he is responsible for his misery and failures; as well as other driving factors such as shitty relationships.

After many years of crying to God, TR has discovered the source for his agony; it's not God picking on him; it's a Demon.

No, Trent does not believe in God... its literally a Terrible Lie... but when you are in a dark place or depressed you want to believe that you're not alone and someone or something is watching out for you.


I'm on my hands and knees
I want so much to believe

[zecho]

In some situations where we cannot explain something we must include 'God' in the list of possibilities. When studying, discussing, or theorizing the origin of the universe and life scientists will, more often than not, include God in the list of theories. Even though they discuss God, they will lean heavily towards God having no existence or role in anything; but they must still consider the possibility of a creator.

Trent Reznor is well known for his references to God and religion, he can pass blame on God; but he also acknowledges that he is responsible for his misery and failures; as well as other driving factors such as shitty relationships.

After many years of crying to God, TR has discovered the source for his agony; it's not God picking on him; it's a Demon.

No, Trent does not believe in God... its literally a Terrible Lie... but when you are in a dark place or depressed you want to believe that you're not alone and someone or something is watching out for you.


I'm on my hands and knees
I want so much to believe

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/019/554/denzel.jpg

[bobbie solo]

In some situations where we cannot explain something we must include 'God' in the list of possibilities. When studying, discussing, or theorizing the origin of the universe and life scientists will, more often than not, include God in the list of theories. Even though they discuss God, they will lean heavily towards God having no existence or role in anything; but they must still consider the possibility of a creator.

Trent Reznor is well known for his references to God and religion, he can pass blame on God; but he also acknowledges that he is responsible for his misery and failures; as well as other driving factors such as shitty relationships.

After many years of crying to God, TR has discovered the source for his agony; it's not God picking on him; it's a Demon.

No, Trent does not believe in God... its literally a Terrible Lie... but when you are in a dark place or depressed you want to believe that you're not alone and someone or something is watching out for you.


I'm on my hands and knees
I want so much to believe

https://i.gifer.com/9TUo.gif

[snaapz]

Demon Seed cleared it up for us; as for God and how he fees it's pretty evident what he believes. He doesn't believe in God but what if... just what if God could fix everything. And why do all of his desires go against what God commands, is there something wrong with me? For gods sake he was raised in a world where everything revolved around God and ensuring you wern't doing wrong in the eyes of God; or else you would end up in hell for eternity. Why is it that everything I do, feel, and believe, is wrong.

As for the reference to astrophysics/science; God or a creator is very much a part of intelligent discussions and the origin of life and this universe. There are many scientists who do not believe in God; but they mention the name quite often.


I know how this will end for me, after over a decade... but ETS has become a place where open discussion is pretty lame.

[Max]

I don't think we should come to any conclusions about what Trent Reznor or anyone else does or does not believe based on their lyrics over the years. Human beings often change over time. Our thoughts, feelings, and beliefs change over time. His lyrics would suggest that God is something he thinks about and has feelings about over the years. There are times that he expresses anger towards an existing God (Terrible Lie), that God did exist and is now dead (Heresy), that all of reality is only in his mind (Only), then a cry for mercy to an existing God (Zero Sum), expressing a pain over God's apparent absence and regret over past mistakes (Find My Way), and bitterness towards God over the state of the world ("that is if He existed, I'm not sure any more"). We should no more conclude that this is the final word on the subject any more than we should of when he wrote Find My Way.

He expresses authentic emotions and thoughts, like all of us have, which ebb and flow and change with the wind. He has expressed so many different feelings and perspectives that one can find something to support their own worldview if they wish. The same was true of Bowie. Was he a Blackstar? Or was he "Lord I kneel and offer you my word on a wing"? All of it. None of it.

It is for each of us to sort out for ourselves. No matter where we stand, we can appreciate his authenticity and vulnerability and find ourselves able to relate on one level or another. It disappoints me when people draw quick conclusions about someone in either direction, or when people get too judgmental about where someone stands on this. Atheists and Christians can both be judgmental and dogmatic and exasperating. We need a little more humility all around, as we all have blind spots.

[benoïde]

Welle, Reznor is a lyricist and "God" as an idea is certainly appealing and inspiring. With it come vulnerability, powerlessness and doubt... and self-awereness as an imperfect human being, which might very well be central to the Nin corpus.

Edit: spelling

[Jinsai]

There is no god. Come on. Grow up, and die like all of the rest of us.

[Magnetic]

I can't believe people are still speculating on this thread.