PHM Demos (not Purest Feeling)

[unheard78]

A few years ago someone posted some snippets of early/rough mixes of PHM tracks from a supposed demo tape they were trying to sell. I know that the snippets were well archived, but did the full-length tracks ever show up online? Thanks.

[sheepdean]

Nope. If you find them, that'd be cool

[jaypayton]

martin atkins was selling them on ebay....who knows what happened to them...probably hoarded in some guy's basement

[sheepdean]

Atkins originally said he'd release the files after the sale, but he didn't - I tweeted him about it once and he was vague and unhelpful, though he may really just have no idea where the files are now.

The winner I did drop a message to on eBay but they never replied, so that's a dead end imo.

[SM Rollinger]

Ha, im constantly posting about these too. Good to see that im not the only one thats obsessed with em.

[darkjuice]

I wonder if they were post "Purest Feeling" or pre. It would suggest they were post, but I'm curious.

[W.O.R.M]

I know exactly what your talking about because I posted those snippets!
I remember Martin asking me to come down to the studio to listen to the tape.
It did look like a old school demo tape. And I remember some of the story that went with it.
I also remember a picture he showed me a while back of him and Trent hanging dry wall at an older studio?? Or his place??

Martin was pretty spot on with what he had, I do remember wanting the version of twist that was on it. Clearest copy I ever heard. I wish I could remember what the other 3 songs were right now....
i want to say
down in it
sanctified
sin
????

Its been a while. I only had the 2 snippets, I couldn't get all the tracks from him either, so I tried to forget about it since I knew I would never hear it again. :(

[SM Rollinger]

Terrible Lie was one of em, if i remember correctly.

[katara]

Any chance anyone can point me towards said samples? I seem to have missed out.

[Leviathant]

Sure - http://soundcloud.com/prettytapemachine

[katara]

Thank you, Levi. ♥

It's strange that nothing like this was released with the deluxe re-issue. I hope that the full tracks will one day surface. Fingers and toes are crossed.

[sheepdean]

Technically, PHM never had a deluxe. PHM Remastered was never billed as a deluxe edition iirc

[BenAkenobi]

First when the news about the tape dropped, it felt awesome. All those speculations on whether or not Trent is going to take over and "leak" full recording himself.
But as he didn't and never even reacted to it on forums or twitter... it became fairly apparent it's no big deal. Same songs slightly less professionally recorded.
I think when it comes to unofficial material, i only listen once or twice and stick to album versions anyway. What would i do if these Sin or Terrible lie were available?
I guess they'd simply gather virtual dust on some distant clusters of hard drive space.
Same as i could never fully be able to tell a difference between all the mixes of Head like a hole. Are there five or six of those twin brothers?
Today i could name them - this is Copper mix, this is Clay mix, but eventually i'd make a mistake. Hell, even the record company mislabeled them on UK single, right?
Also Empathetic and Sympathetic mixes of Terrible Lie - i'm still convinced it takes a master of nin-fu to blindly tell those apart. Are you* the one? I salute you*, you'll make better use of OMG_TEH_DEMOZ if they ever will surface :)

______
*you is a generalization

[Ryan]

Who has the tape? Direct me to them and I'll get it out of them. Money talks.

[SM Rollinger]

sheepdean mite still, he was the one who tried to contact the winner. i doubt it was anybody on here though

[jaypayton]

1. Do we know if these are demos with different vocal tracks or just "rough mixes"
2. We will never see these in our lifetimes
3. Terrible Lie (Empathetic) stands apart because the volume levels are upped for the "I give you everything, my sweet everything" which you cant even hear on the album version. And Head Like a Hole "Opal" sounds like a totally dif recording, much like Closer To God"....The other remixes from those era's are nothing special

[TheBang]

Its been a while. I only had the 2 snippets, I couldn't get all the tracks from him either, so I tried to forget about it since I knew I would never hear it again. :(
Are you still in touch with Martin? Can you ask him again? Or get the contact info for the buyer from him?

[KingBacon]

This is what I was able to dig up: nin.com (http://forum.nin.com/bb/read.php?62,1399441)

Best bet is probably approaching Martin Atkins with money. I've thought about it.

[fillow]

I remember reading a relatively recent interview with Vrenna where he recollects his earliest days in NIN, including Skinny Puppy tour. I can't, however, remember exactly if he mentioned any pre-PHM studio work or not, but he could've. The interview was from Manson's THEOL era, I think.

[SM Rollinger]

This is what I was able to dig up: nin.com (http://forum.nin.com/bb/read.php?62,1399441)

Best bet is probably approaching Martin Atkins with money. I've thought about it.

See what he wants for them. I would throw down on these, and i bet alot of people on this site would too (Uncoiled).

[Conan The Barbarian]

Can we trust the guy?

[SM Rollinger]

Martin? I would assume so

[jaypayton]

Martins facebook page

http://www.facebook.com/martin.atkins.338?ref=ts&fref=ts

[KingBacon]

Shouldn't we come up with a plan? One of the last articles published on the web about Martin Atkin's PHM demo: here (http://www.examiner.com/article/nin-rare-demos-cassette-of-pretty-hate-machine-fetches-pretty-penny).

The final price on the auction was $1,025.

Apparently the songs featured on Atkins' demo tape of PHM are:

1. Sin (4:06)
2. Terrible Lie (4:55)
3. Sanctified (5:33)
4. Ringfinger (4:32)
5. Down In It (4:26)

Whats that? Roughly two hundred and ten bucks a song if we're trying to match that price?

[Conan The Barbarian]

Mesh, I mean if a lot of people got in this it wouldn't be so bad. But 1 grand plus for that many songs is asking a lot .

[KingBacon]

Not really if you think about it. I mean, I'd have no problem throwing down a hundred dollars personally. Christ, I've spent a hundred dollars on one track nin promo cds before. Its not that bad. It just takes nine more equally committed people.

Honestly, I was quite mad to find that I missed out on the auction when it first appeared. A thousand dollars isn't that much. And I think its a shame that whoever bought the tape didn't at least share it digitally with the rest of the fans. Who in good conscience would hoard this stuff?!

[BenAkenobi]

with that logic, KingBacon, five grand isn't that much either, or twenty grand like it was in the first auction (if i remember correctly). i'm not stopping you, but let me remind you — the guy ALREADY got a, dare i say, SIZABLE chunk of money while you want to give him more without guarantee that he fucks you over. he sends you 160 kbps mp3 files and says you're lucky. i'm willing to add $25 to the pool, but only after the fact.

[W.O.R.M]

Yeah I still keep in touch with Martin.
Let me drop him a line and see if he's still got the digital copy's.
I know his studio suffered a flood a couple of years ago, but who knows.
And I can assure you I'm not bullshitting you.
Ive known Martin since about 03 on and have worked at invisible/underground as well as opened for
pigface and a few other label bands as well as signed to the label in 06.
if I remember correctly Martin was auctioning off a lot of old memorabilia at the time to raise money for
his tour smart classes/tour thing.
He played the tape at a seminar at the studio on jan 31,2010.
i remember taking my wife since she wanted to hear it, she's the one who got me into NIN.
Out of all the college kids that were there I think her and I were the only
ones listening intently.

Since someone posted the track list I knew sanctified was on there.
It sounded similar to the right track demo but slightly different.
Ringfinger like I said was actually twist, and like I said it just sounded a lot
clearer and cleaner than I've ever heard it.
Sin and terrible lie were the ones that got me cause I had never heard a demo of those 2.
down it it sounded like one of the remixes but yet again there were slight differences.
Sounded way more beatboxy.
Looking back I'm sure this tape was just another stage of what would ultimately become PHM.
Trent just happened to be with Martin at a party thrown by a local Cleveland promoter when he was on tour with Brian brain.
And that's when he gave him the tape.

Trust me I've heard all the stories about Martin over the years, but keep in mind it's no different than half the junk you hear about other peoples business deals.
Ive known Martin for many years and he's always been a great guy. He's a business man too, and let's face it the music industry isn't candy land. As a person he's one of the nicest funniest guys you could meet.

He asked me to come and listen to the tape right before the seminar to ask me if it was something I'd heard before.
Who (or why) thought I was the resident NIN head to ask I will never know.
But sitting with Martin in the studio and having our own private screening session is a moment I'll always remember.

Let me drop him a line and see if he's still got them and if he'll post them or send em to me to post them.

Cause IMHO, things lie this should be available to the public. I feel Martin was justified to auction it off the same way Trent was auctioning off broken guitars and road gear. It's a piece of history. The tape itself is probably one of a few or one of a kind, so yeah with it's history and story it is a collectors item, the music itself though should be available to the public.

[Hazekiah]

I logged in some time with Underground, Inc. back in the day after I picked up a flyer at Crow's Nest and spent a summer packaging CD orders with flyers and free t-shirts and shit while Porridge constantly tried to lick-rape me on the floor and I never really understood all the shit people talked about Martin Atkins. I was just some kid off the streets eager to help and he walked me right into his home, we got down to work, and he was totally cool and a perfect gentlemen. If I hadn't gotten super-busy at my paying job AND moved further away I'd probably still be right there to this day happily chugging along.

Thanks for the info and the assistance! I'm sure no one thinks you're bullshitting here, everything certainly rings true from my experience with him, at least. Good luck!

:)

[W.O.R.M]

I logged in some time with Underground, Inc. back in the day after I picked up a flyer at Crow's Nest and spent a summer packaging CD orders with flyers and free t-shirts and shit while Porridge constantly tried to lick-rape me on the floor

HA HA!!! Porridge!!!! One of the worlds coolest dogs!!!
thanks mate, I never understood it all either.
Martin was always cool. Always invited me to stay for dinner with his family, would always repay your hard work someway. Wheather it was food, CDs, help with your band whatever!
People take what they read and run with it, or they hear someone's ratings and take it as gospel.

One memory I will never forget is watching the cubs play off game (where Steve Bartman grabbed the ball), I remember Martin joking that maybe we should close the windows because of my cheering and yelling since we were blocks away from US cellular (sox territory).

Good times and good people.

[BenAkenobi]

oh, so it appears i accidentally badmouthed a seemingly awesome guy, sorry for that :(

[KingBacon]

with that logic, KingBacon, five grand isn't that much either, or twenty grand like it was in the first auction (if i remember correctly). i'm not stopping you, but let me remind you — the guy ALREADY got a, dare i say, SIZABLE chunk of money while you want to give him more without guarantee that he fucks you over. he sends you 160 kbps mp3 files and says you're lucky. i'm willing to add $25 to the pool, but only after the fact.

Ben, I'm sorry. I don't know how old you are or what kind of job you have, but a thousand dollars isn't much to raise amongst a group of adults with a steady income. Not that I'm even really suggesting that. I only brought it up because thats how much money Atkins recieved in the end for this fund raiser of his. If anything it gives us an actual numbers to crunch and think about...

[BenAkenobi]

i'm just trying to understand your ideas. sure you're passionate but as was figured long ago this isn't about discovery of a completely new song (like those on Purest Feeling bootleg), just the songs we've heard for decades now. that's why i'm openly less enthusiastic about inflating values of anything mr. Reznor has something to do with. as i've stated before, i find myself not enjoying unofficial material as much, if at all. maybe because of a belief in artist's own approval. maybe because of fear that such fan-projects could prevent some quality materials from being officially released in the future. mr. Reznor might just think – why make a kick-ass compilation of something from the depth of the vault if said vault was already raided and swept... okay, enough with my nonsense :)

[Ryan]

http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/3231-Do-you-care-about-Purest-Feeling-Maybe-Just-Once?p=191984#post191984


Demos??????


Does me bumping this thread help?

[Conan The Barbarian]

Ah those. Lol thought a new batch came up.

Me and my demo fetish.

[Pyract]

So, I received an email from someone who wishes to remain anonymous. They sent along a couple more excerpts of the Sin demo from this tape, and they gave me permission to share (not direct capture).

https://nindestruct.com/music/demos/Sin_demo_excerpt2.mp3

https://nindestruct.com/music/demos/Sin_demo_excerpt3.mp3

[paul_guyet]

So, I received an email from someone who wishes to remain anonymous. They sent along a couple more excerpts of the Sin demo from this tape, and they gave me permission to share (not direct capture).

https://nindestruct.com/music/demos/Sin_demo_excerpt2.mp3

https://nindestruct.com/music/demos/Sin_demo_excerpt3.mp3And they want to...share them? Sell them? Hurt us?

[pcpunk]

Hurt us. Tease us with what we can’t have.

[Prick]

Hurt us. Tease us with what we can’t have.

Not quite.

[Leviathant]

Oomf, hard to believe this thread is nearly a decade old. Mildly interesting to hear new clips, thanks for sharing Pyract

[SM Rollinger]

Goddamn number 3, right before the instrumental section, sounds sick as hell.

[Erneuert]

So, I received an email from someone who wishes to remain anonymous. They sent along a couple more excerpts of the Sin demo from this tape, and they gave me permission to share (not direct capture).

https://nindestruct.com/music/demos/Sin_demo_excerpt2.mp3

https://nindestruct.com/music/demos/Sin_demo_excerpt3.mp3

Isn't there a way to bring this to TR's attention so he can just give it to us in high fidelity?

[trollmanen]

It should be common knowledge by now that Martin Atkins has this tape. He was the one originally selling it I believe. You can hear it if you visit his museum in Chicago and he'll supposedly let you do your own mix or something to a cassette tape. I think it's one the things he likes to talk about to attract interest in his museum. https://www.facebook.com/PPIMChicago/

[Erneuert]

It should be common knowledge by now that Martin Atkins has this tape. He was the one originally selling it I believe. You can hear it if you visit his museum in Chicago and he'll supposedly let you do your own mix or something to a cassette tape. I think it's one the things he likes to talk about to attract interest in his museum. https://www.facebook.com/PPIMChicago/

That's... different.

Can someone go to said museum with a wire on and hit record and report back? thx

[trollmanen]

That's... different.

Can someone go to said museum with a wire on and hit record and report back? thx

OK, I got a little confused about it. I've talked with him via Instagram and just went back through my messages with him. I asked him about the demo tape, and specifically mentioned Terrible Lie and Sin, and he said still has the digital files. He told me if I came out to the museum he'd play them for me. I suppose someone could wear a discrete recording rig and maybe get lucky.

The thing about doing a mix to tape was something else he mentioned later on. He told me he was doing some "mix sessions...where people can come and mix Trent singing Suck onto a cassette in the studio". I didn't really get more info since I wasn't planning on going out there, but I assume it was the Pigface version he was referring to.

[Prick]

Martin occasionally hosts mixing sessions to make your own mix of Suck (Pigface) and you get to take home a cassette of your mix. fyi, if you cared, he also has demos for the entire process album by sp.

[Senateguard33]

OK, I got a little confused about it. I've talked with him via Instagram and just went back through my messages with him. I asked him about the demo tape, and specifically mentioned Terrible Lie and Sin, and he said still has the digital files. He told me if I came out to the museum he'd play them for me. I suppose someone could wear a discrete recording rig and maybe get lucky..

I wonder what Trent's take is on these surfaced demos. There's been a lot of care taken to make sure they don't leak in full.

Going off the snippets, they don't sound too far off from the final versions.

Does he even care? Most of the other PHM demos have made it out at this point minus a few (the most notable being "I'm Not Listening" and "I Can Make Myself Forget" (which is rumored to be an early version of That's What I Get with alternate lyrics)

[trollmanen]

I wonder what Trent's take is on these surfaced demos. There's been a lot of care taken to make sure they don't leak in full.

Going off the snippets, they don't sound too far off from the final versions.

Does he even care? Most of the other PHM demos have made it out at this point minus a few (the most notable being "I'm Not Listening" and "I Can Make Myself Forget" (which is rumored to be an early version of That's What I Get with alternate lyrics)

I think it's clear his take on it is that he'd rather it not be out in the wild. That's why he stepped in when the tape was on eBay about 10 years ago (whenever that was) and had the auction pulled. At least that's how he felt at the time. I'm going to guess it was also about protecting his copyright on the material and preventing it from being bootlegged and sold.

[All_The_Spoils]

I think it's clear his take on it is that he'd rather it not be out in the wild. That's why he stepped in when the tape was on eBay about 10 years ago (whenever that was) and had the auction pulled. At least that's how he felt at the time. I'm going to guess it was also about protecting his copyright on the material and preventing it from being bootlegged and sold.

Wait... Trent had that auction pulled? I thought it had reached it's conclusion and was sold?

[trollmanen]

Wait... Trent had that auction pulled? I thought it had reached it's conclusion and was sold?

No, I believe the auction was pulled and was never sold. Someone else can either confirm that or not, but that's my recollection.

[TheBang]

No, I believe the auction was pulled and was never sold. Someone else can either confirm that or not, but that's my recollection.
The auction ended successfully at $1025.00:
https://web.archive.org/web/20110101092548/http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120660487400

Full listing description:
https://web.archive.org/web/20101220160053/http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120660487400

[trollmanen]

The auction ended successfully at $1025.00:
https://web.archive.org/web/20110101092548/http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120660487400

Full listing description:
https://web.archive.org/web/20101220160053/http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120660487400

I stand corrected. So it was definitely Martin Atkins who was selling it. I should ask him what happened with it. Cause if someone did actually get the tape, then it is surprising it hasn't leaked.

[Leviathant]

Martin Atkins posted on the Facebook page for The Museum of Punk and Industrial Music (https://www.facebook.com/PPIMChicago/posts/pfbid02aVLG3EVCKhX3cACeEHBsXaWZEjEEQeTWgZkHcLvKSdc 8yxa8k6vS5L9UUkmdRVbvl?comment_id=1336255197008002&reply_comment_id=338732425510264&notif_id=1699388438371221&notif_t=comment_mention&ref=notif) that he is once again in possession of the demo tape. Curiously, he says he received it in 1986, after the show where Trent played sax with Brian Brain. I questioned him on the date, he swore it was real, but didn't follow up with details. It's pretty well documented that Trent was in Exotic Birds at the time, but the idea that Down In It could have been recorded before Dig It is amazing. The immediate go-to NIN critique for thousands of internet rivetheds, up in smoke! Alas, I think Martin's confused about the date.



14 years ago I sold a demo cassette that Trent gave me in November 1986 - the earliest demos I know of from PHM - the cassette was just donated back to the museum and arrived home yesterday


date not off. Trent played horns with my band Brian Brain at the phantasy, gave me the cassette on our day off the next day - went through my gig lists to find ‘cleveland followed by a day off ‘ November 1986

This has led me to discover that a bunch of Cleveland Scene magazines are online (https://cplorg.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p16014coll5/search/searchterm/rock%20music%20--%20cleveland%20--%20periodicals/field/subjec/mode/exact/conn/and/order/sortda/ad/asc/page/17). I will find the damn show! It wasn't November 1986.

[TheBang]

No way it's 86. Here is the text from the original auction of the tape (https://web.archive.org/web/20101220160053/http://cgi.ebay.com:80/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120660487400):


Comments from Martin Atkins:

"I met Trent when my first band Brian Brain played at The Phantasy Club in lakewood Ohio (just outside of Cleveland) in (maybe) 1983 or so, maybe earlier. We had released a 12" with a horn section on it and tried to find horn players across to USA to jump up onstage with us after learning the songs from some cassettes that we sent out. Trent was recruited by my friend Tom Lash to play trumpet. It was at a barbeque at the DeFraziers home (the owners of the Phantasy) where I spent a little time with Trent and remember him telling me about some music he was working on. John Malm, who was to become Trents manager was also there.


I'm not sure exactly when I received this cassette, it must have been before 1988 when I left New Jersey to move to Chicago. John and Trent invited me to NYC to talk through offers they had received from labels & I hooked them up with my attorney at the time. It would still be a few years before Trent sang on the Pigface track Suck and NiN started to blow up." - Martin


Comments from (echoingthesound.org) is wormhostage. on nin.com its worm.


All of these tacks sound AMAZING!!! Best quality I have ever heard. I have never
come across these versions of Terrible Lie or Sin before.


Terrible Lie - It sounded like a hollowed stripped down version of the song.
Reverb/Delay on the vocals at parts, mainly the chorus. The bridge was longer
and no stops, like the abrupt stop in the bridge, and it faded out. The way he
sings the song is different than PHM. Parts sound rushed, like the ending. "You
made me throw it all away...etc. etc....."
Because there is NO existing demo of the song anywhere. It sounded stripped
down and the vocal styling (the way he sang it) seemed different from the album
version. A rare gem.


Down In It – Sounds kind of like the version off the single but this version has an
intro. Plus the vocal style again was different and the arrangement, I believe,
was slightly different.


Twist sounds the same as what we've perviously heard except that its clear,
ungodly clear.
For the most part it's the same demo that's been around before with the bed
springs ending "I only think of you" but the clarity of this copy is great, the best
copy I've ever heard of it.
No freaking hiss. And there's actually bass.


Sanctified - Sounded like the version from a demo CD called "The Right Track Demos,"
but it sounded more refined and mixed, as where the one we've all heard
has a more live feeling to it, like it was recorded live in the studio.


Sin - Another gem because there's no demo of it. I'm trying to remember it but
I know it had the same thing as Terrible Lie vocal wise, it's not the way he usually
sings it. And I believe the arrangement was slightly different as well.

Based on the state of the songs, and the quote about talking through offers they were receiving from labels, this was likely very late 1988. They signed with TVT in Dec 88 or Jan 89, and Trent started working with John Fryer in London in Jan. 89. So, most likely, these demos represent the state of the songs as they were in late 88, before any of the input from outside producers. This is likely even the exact demo tape that was being sent to labels. By playing with the contrast on that photo of the tape, I can see the writing along the bottom says "J Artist Management (USA) [phone number]".

[fillow]

I am still amazed at how Martin continues milking this tape for money (first ebay and now playing it at his museum) while Trent apparently doesn't see a dime? (Unless he does and we just don't know)

[spahn]

And forgive me if I am missing something but why did he sell it and now advertising it as "It has arrived". Is he saying it has arrived to the museum as a new piece he is taking out of his own vault?

[SM Rollinger]

Did anyone go to one of these listening things at his museum?

[versusreality]

lol, Martin keeps pushing back the date for when Trent gave him the tape. waiting for Martin to say "Trent gave me the tape the day after his 8th birthday, where he performed a piano recital for his family" .

[BRoswell]

lol, Martin keeps pushing back the date for when Trent gave him the tape. waiting for Martin to say "Trent gave me the tape the day after his 8th birthday, where he performed a piano recital for his family" .

Turns out Terrible Lie is about not being allowed to have ice cream for dinner after doing his chores.

[Erneuert]

Just share the damn thing. Hoarding is an illness.

[trollmanen]

And forgive me if I am missing something but why did he sell it and now advertising it as "It has arrived". Is he saying it has arrived to the museum as a new piece he is taking out of his own vault?

He's saying whomever bought it has now donated it back to him and the museum. I could have sworn that the tape didn't sell and Trent had his management step in and stop the original sale, but I guess not?

I've chatted with Martin via Instagram before about other audio, and he's not gonna share this with folks outside of playing it for people who visit the museum. Which, I can understand, because if it's leaked, it's going to be very obvious it was him, and while Trent has, in general, been ambivalent about previous leaks, maybe this would be different? That Self Destruct concert film leaked but pretty quickly got shut down and swept under the rug. I'm sure Martin isn't in the weeds about all that stuff and would just assume it would not be good for him if it leaked.

At this point, the best option would be for someone to visit the museum and stealth record like a concert. It would probably be hard when you're standing right next to Martin, but not sure there are other options.

[Senateguard33]

Based on the below descriptions, I'd say all of these (except Sin and Terrible Lie) are either extremely similar or the same versions heard on the common "Demos and Remixes" bootleg.

Terrible Lie - It sounded like a hollowed stripped down version of the song.
Reverb/Delay on the vocals at parts, mainly the chorus. The bridge was longer
and no stops, like the abrupt stop in the bridge, and it faded out. The way he
sings the song is different than PHM. Parts sound rushed, like the ending. "You
made me throw it all away...etc. etc....."
Because there is NO existing demo of the song anywhere. It sounded stripped
down and the vocal styling (the way he sang it) seemed different from the album
version. A rare gem.


Down In It – Sounds kind of like the version off the single but this version has an
intro. Plus the vocal style again was different and the arrangement, I believe,
was slightly different.


Twist sounds the same as what we've perviously heard except that its clear,
ungodly clear.
For the most part it's the same demo that's been around before with the bed
springs ending "I only think of you" but the clarity of this copy is great, the best
copy I've ever heard of it.
No freaking hiss. And there's actually bass.


Sanctified - Sounded like the version from a demo CD called "The Right Track Demos,"
but it sounded more refined and mixed, as where the one we've all heard
has a more live feeling to it, like it was recorded live in the studio.


Sin - Another gem because there's no demo of it. I'm trying to remember it but
I know it had the same thing as Terrible Lie vocal wise, it's not the way he usually
sings it. And I believe the arrangement was slightly different as well.

[paul_guyet]

I never want to see this dude's name again unless it's followed by "has stopped being weird and has uploaded the goddamn PHM demos".

There's something so sweaty about this guy and his "museum"...

[trollmanen]

I mean, it seems like a cool place, the pictures show a ton of great memorabilia from tons of bands. And he is a figure from the scene who played with many people and had a lot of connections with a lot of these bands back in the day. If I'm being honest, I don't expect him to just rip it and upload it for free. It would be great if he did that, but I can see why that just isn't going to happen. Using it as bait to visit his museum is a little off putting I'll admit. But if that's what he's doing, it's better than hoarding it and not letting anyone hear it.

[paul_guyet]

I mean, it seems like a cool place, the pictures show a ton of great memorabilia from tons of bands. And he is a figure from the scene who played with many people and had a lot of connections with a lot of these bands back in the day. If I'm being honest, I don't expect him to just rip it and upload it for free. It would be great if he did that, but I can see why that just isn't going to happen. Using it as bait to visit his museum is a little off putting I'll admit. But if that's what he's doing, it's better than hoarding it and not letting anyone hear it.I can see what you're saying. For me, I suppose it's a combination of profiting off something that, as far as I know, he had nothing to do with while making it unavailable anywhere else. You're allowed to take pictures of the Mona Lisa...

[Pyract]

Martin Atkins posted on the Facebook page for The Museum of Punk and Industrial Music (https://www.facebook.com/PPIMChicago/posts/pfbid02aVLG3EVCKhX3cACeEHBsXaWZEjEEQeTWgZkHcLvKSdc 8yxa8k6vS5L9UUkmdRVbvl?comment_id=1336255197008002&reply_comment_id=338732425510264&notif_id=1699388438371221&notif_t=comment_mention&ref=notif) that he is once again in possession of the demo tape. Curiously, he says he received it in 1986, after the show where Trent played sax with Brian Brain. I questioned him on the date, he swore it was real, but didn't follow up with details. It's pretty well documented that Trent was in Exotic Birds at the time, but the idea that Down In It could have been recorded before Dig It is amazing. The immediate go-to NIN critique for thousands of internet rivetheds, up in smoke! Alas, I think Martin's confused about the date.

This has led me to discover that a bunch of Cleveland Scene magazines are online (https://cplorg.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p16014coll5/search/searchterm/rock%20music%20--%20cleveland%20--%20periodicals/field/subjec/mode/exact/conn/and/order/sortda/ad/asc/page/17). I will find the damn show! It wasn't November 1986.

I just read the new article you posted on the hotline, amazing stuff! Thanks for doing the research and the new goodies to read!

https://www.theninhotline.com/news/permalink/1699597625

[GentlemanLoser]

There's something so sweaty about this guy and his "museum"...

The museum is actually pretty damn amazing. Getting to spend several hours seeing historic memorabilia from the days of old school industrial, hearing stories about a lot of those artifacts, listening to unreleased nine inch nails and skinny puppy demos. Pretty great way to spend an afternoon. Atkins himself is an...interesting fellow who was around and involved for pretty much the inception of the genre as we know it, and I think the museum gives him an excuse to relive some of his glory days (no complaints though, his day back then beats my year).

Oh, and to the topic at hand. When I was there I heard a digital copy of the Ringfiger/Twist demo from this tape (not sure he had the whole thing digitized, if I knew then that the tape included an unheard-of Terrible Lie demo I certainly would have asked). Its cool, very similar to the mix from Demos and Remixes, but a little bit longer (i.e. lead in and out just a few seconds longer than the D&R version), sound was way better but you could hear some distortion near the start, like either from the spinning up of one of the tapes in the studio when it was made, or damage to the tape before it was digitized).

One of these days I am going back (just because it was a really fun experience, and Chicago isn't far away from where I live (and where Atkins used to work)). I'll definitely be inquiring about hearing that Terrible Lie and Sin demo though.

Oh, and as one last aside. As mentioned elsewhere, he has a bunch of Skinny Puppy demos from The Process, and man-alive what I heard of those mixes were total beasts.

[SM Rollinger]

The museum is actually pretty damn amazing. Getting to spend several hours seeing historic memorabilia from the days of old school industrial, hearing stories about a lot of those artifacts, listening to unreleased nine inch nails and skinny puppy demos. Pretty great way to spend an afternoon. Atkins himself is an...interesting fellow who was around and involved for pretty much the inception of the genre as we know it, and I think the museum gives him an excuse to relive some of his glory days (no complaints though, his day back then beats my year).

Oh, and to the topic at hand. When I was there I heard a digital copy of the Ringfiger/Twist demo from this tape (not sure he had the whole thing digitized, if I knew then that the tape included an unheard-of Terrible Lie demo I certainly would have asked). Its cool, very similar to the mix from Demos and Remixes, but a little bit longer (i.e. lead in and out just a few seconds longer than the D&R version), sound was way better but you could hear some distortion near the start, like either from the spinning up of one of the tapes in the studio when it was made, or damage to the tape before it was digitized).

One of these days I am going back (just because it was a really fun experience, and Chicago isn't far away from where I live (and where Atkins used to work)). I'll definitely be inquiring about hearing that Terrible Lie and Sin demo though.

Oh, and as one last aside. As mentioned elsewhere, he has a bunch of Skinny Puppy demos from The Process, and man-alive what I heard of those mixes were total beasts.

Saw a few guys with shirts from the museum at the Puppy show, maybe next time I get out to Chicago I'll check the museum out. Sounds awesome! (We hit the Museum of Science and Industry and the Willis Tower besides the show).