Carnivale

[neorev]

Any fans of this show on here?
I'm absolutely love this show. It was so dark and unique compared to most other series. Too bad it only lasted for two seasons. People have compared it to "Twin Peaks." The look, feel, and setting was truly special and fans have fought for years to bring it back... unsuccessfully. Dan Knauf, the creator of "Carnivale," is taking the reigns of a new "Dracula" show as well as working with Mr. Trent Reznor himself on the "Year Zero" mini-series. If there's anyone that can bring "Year Zero" to life with true detail and unique characters you respond to and care about, it's Mr. Dan Knauf. He also created the Blackbxx format of filming. A multi-camera experience, kinda like "Paranormal Activity," but you have control of all the cameras for a 48 hour period of time to sift through and discover the story as it progresses from your own choice of viewing.

CARNIVÀLE

The two seasons of Carnivàle take place in the Depression-era Dust Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl) between 1934 and 1935, and consist of two main plotlines that slowly converge. The first involves a young man with strange healing powers named Ben Hawkins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Hawkins_(Carnivàle)) (Nick Stahl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Stahl)), who joins a traveling carnival (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_carnival) when it passes near his home in Milfay, Oklahoma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milfay,_Oklahoma). Soon thereafter, Ben begins having surreal dreams and visions, which set him on the trail of a man named Henry Scudder, a drifter who crossed paths with the carnival many years before, and who apparently possessed unusual abilities similar to Ben's own.

The second plotline revolves around a Father Coughlin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Coughlin)-esque Methodist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methodist) preacher, Brother Justin Crowe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_Justin_Crowe) (Clancy Brown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clancy_Brown)), who lives with his sister Iris in California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California). He shares Ben's prophetic dreams and slowly discovers the extent of his own unearthly powers, which include bending human beings to his will (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_(philosophy)) and making their sins and greatest evils manifest as terrifying visions. Certain that he is doing God's work, Brother Justin fully devotes himself to his religious duties, not realizing that his ultimate nemesis Ben Hawkins and the carnival are inexorably drawing closer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivàle

Opening Sequence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL92CttTY3A

Samson's Opening Speech (Season 1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkolEbUPvZY

Samson's Opening Speech (Season 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND7zuZqY9t4

Season 1 Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io3qEXfuc2s

Facebook group:
https://www.facebook.com/Carnivale

In the last few months, the FB group as seen a rise in like 30,000 people since it was finally debuted properly overseas. Dan Knauf was offered to finish the story as a one time movie, but turned it down because the show was suppose to last a total of 6 seasons that spanned 15 years. He didn't want to do anything that may compromise the story in rushing what would be a 12 year span of story all into a single movie. Another rumor was that if the movie was successful, it could see a return. But then HBO pulled out and nothing happened. Then Marvel offered to continue the series as a graphic novel, since Knauf has worked on some "Iron Man" comics, but HBO would not give up the rights for them to continue it. The open ending left fans a little crazy try to know what happened with some key plots. But Dan Knauf was nice enough to come on a fan site trying to get the show back on and gave us three plot tidbits to satisfy some of our questions left unanswered. Also, the final scene of the series is actually shown in the two seasons that aired. I can't help and say how much I love this show. The only other show that I love this much is "Game Of Thrones" right now. And like "Game Of Thrones," all the characters are in depth and engaging... the good guys and the bad guys. Which is what made the show even more powerful. Brother Justin's journey into darkness, you're with him all the way... and you feel so sorry at the same time for him.

[october_midnight]

Fucking LOVED both seasons. When I heard about Knauf's 'dracula' series I got a full boner.

[neorev]

:D

For people who aleady watched the show, these are some good reads to get even more details...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_of_Carnivàle

http://jsheppardcarnivale.webs.com/avataralightdark.htm

And here is the PDF pitch document that Dan Knauf gave to HBO to get an idea of what the show is all about. Lots of great character insights and history that didn't get fully developed during the two seasons. Lots of interesting facts and the prelude to the show...

http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.harvardwood.org/resource/resmgr/hwp-pdfs/carnivale_pitch_document.pdf

[neorev]

^^^Only read if you already saw the show or if you wanna get completely spoiled before watching the show :P

[eversonpoe]

i thought it was originally supposed to be a total of 7 seasons, but i could be wrong.

i've watched through season one 3 or 4 times and season two 2 or 3 times, now. i never get sick of this show, but i'm always left ACHING for more. if i remember correctly, it was the show's exorbitant budget that did it in prematurely.

[eversonpoe]

:D

For people who aleady watched the show, these are some good reads to get even more details...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_of_Carnivàle

http://jsheppardcarnivale.webs.com/avataralightdark.htm

And here is the PDF pitch document that Dan Knauf gave to HBO to get an idea of what the show is all about. Lots of great character insights and history that didn't get fully developed during the two seasons. Lots of interesting facts and the prelude to the show...

http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.harvardwood.org/resource/resmgr/hwp-pdfs/carnivale_pitch_document.pdf

well...there goes my whole morning.

[neorev]

Yeah, it's budget was pretty immense. And from what Dan Knauf said, the next seasons would have been bigger and wider spread. But a show like Game Of Thrones costs much more than Carnivale ever did. Plus it had one of the biggest openings with viewer numbers for all of HBO's series. It's opening sequence was listed at #1 for the top 60 coolest TV opening credits of all time...

http://www.pajiba.com/guides/the-60-coolest-tv-show-title-sequences-of-all-time.php

Wish HBO wised up and brought it back. I think it would be even more popular now, especially since how it relates with the current times.
I still see people discovering this show for the first time even to this day and getting into it only to find out it was cut short.

Plus at the time of its premiere, TV hasn't been as interactive and social as it is. I think Carnivale would do better in this new environment with people going online to discuss shows. Especially since it is a show that actually deserves to be discussed and unravel its mysteries. At the time when the show was on, Comic Con wasn't so popular as it is now. When Dan Knauf approached HBO about having a panel on it, HBO didn't have a clue what he was talking about. This was said during an interview with him. He wants to expand the show's outreach, but HBO at the time wasn't prepared or well versed in things like Comic Con. Now shows like Always Sunny In Philadelphia have Comic Con panels. Proper advertisement and social/online interaction kinda hindered the show from spreading to a wider audience.

It literally only recently was just made available over in the UK on one of their on demand channels and I saw a surge in people liking the Carnivale FB page only to find out it was canceled. These are people who have no clue that this is an older show. So it kinda shows the poor advertising on HBO's behalf.

[neorev]

They should start replaying it alongside Game Of Thrones and see if they can get those fans into the show.
I would love a Sunday night with both shows on... that would be epic. Crazy fantasy/mythological Sunday night on HBO.
Dan Knauf still believes he will get to finish the story in some form one day. And with his recent meetings with HBO, I'm guessing for Year Zero, he said that the execs were like "we still get crap til this day for canceling that show."

[profane]

I totally loved this show. Might just dig those dvd's up and watch it again. Thanks for the reminder!

[neorev]

Me and my girl just rewatched the series. Finished it a couple of nights ago. We live on Long Island and lost our internet and cable for several days due to the storm. So we figured why not watch it all over again. I must have rewatched this series in full at least several times. My girl only saw it a couple of times. But at least we have a great two seasons. And when it all finally comes somewhat together, its just awesome. The battle! And every character is great. Definitely read that pitch document, there are some revealing plot details hidden within. Stuff we didn't get to yet. Plus I gotta hunt down the site of one of the productiin designers again. They had designs for Brother Justin's temple and office inside depicting artistic renditions of people suffering in hell on its walls. Plus Dan Knauf recently sold the insides of his studio in California for an auction with lots of signed scripts with all the revisions, hand drawn production art, photos, and other Carnivale merch and props. Wish I had the cash to buy the lot.

[neorev]

here's the site for the auction... but i think it has ended. wish i could get my hands on those scripts and production art
apparently they wanted Management to have his lower jaw missing
http://www.theauctionarium.com/auction_detail.php?id=191942

[neorev]

oh, and here's that production designer's page...
http://www.berntcapra.com/carnivale/carnivale.htm
http://www.berntcapra.com/carnivale/images/6.jpg

[neorev]

http://www.berntcapra.com/carnivale/images/5.jpg

[neorev]

http://www.berntcapra.com/carnivale/images/7.jpg

[neorev]

http://videowordmadefleshdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/carnivale.jpg

[neorev]

http://www.rightthissecond.co/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/carnivale2.jpg

[neorev]

http://www.online-inquirer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/carnivale_end.jpg

[neorev]

http://www.cgsociety.org/press_releases/2003_9/a52/carnivale1.jpg

[neorev]

Samson's opening speech (Season 2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND7zuZqY9t4

[neorev]

http://nofatclips.com/02008/06/01/carnivale/vlcsnap-387119.jpg

[neorev]

http://www.cgsociety.org/press_releases/2003_9/a52/carnivale2.jpg

[neorev]

http://jeromeparis.canalblog.com/albums/carnivale/m-_Users_jeromepatalano_Desktop_carnivale_album_carn ivaleCouveALBUM1.jpg

[neorev]

http://www.isnnews.net/zocalo/images/carnivale.jpg

[Canuckle]

Great show, although I felt the second half of the second season was rushed, but I can't really hold that against them too much considering how HBO generally pulls plugs.

Sadly it just falls in line with another HBO show that needs a Blu-Ray release but can't seem to get it... cough The Wire cough

[neorev]

I own both seasons on DVD and love the art and whole design.
Kinda looks like a book. I always liked that, especially how Dan Knauf explained how the show would be 6 seasons... 2 seasons per book.
The first two seasons are considered one book and only spanned a couple of years, with the whole show spanning about 15 years.
He said that the third season would have introduced completely new characters to the story as well. And it would begin like a new book starting off.
Some people complained that the show was too slow and I think that's why the second season picked up speed.
Then again the second season is suppose to be like the last half of a book where things pick up speed.
The speed of the show did not bother me one bit. Honestly I felt the build up let you really let you into all of the characters and made it more engaging.
So when things came together or the shit hit the fan, it really paid off and kept you glued toward the end.
But I would gladly rebuy this series on Blu-Ray. Beautiful yet dark show.... the black blizzard.
Ben's vision during the first episode of season 2 of the bomb... fucking awesome!

[Vertigo]

My opinion, maybe an unpopular one, was that Carnivale presented an incredibly rich universe, a unique vision and oodles of oft-promised potential, but narratively meandered around in a quagmire of dead ends and deader pacing, only picking up any kind of momentum towards the end of each season. Ultimately, there was enough there to keep me watching through to the end, but I did spend a great deal of it (including afterwards...) suspecting I may have been wasting my time.

[neorev]

I hear ya Vertigo. Maybe for me, I just enjoyed every single character so much that it didn't really bother me when the story went off on tangents that not necessarily focused on the whole main good vs evil arch. I think what made the series pick up towards the end of each season where you feel more engaged was the fact that you spent the first half really getting into the character's lives... both those who serve to the main story and those who serve different sub story offshoots. I felt the layout of the show is very close to Game Of Thrones, especially the multi-character arch. And where you even sympathize with the bad guys. The pitch document gives you in depth background for each character and some incite to where it was possibly going to go... especially Lodz. Dan Knauf was luckily nice enough to come on to a forum and give fans a few tidbits to at least calm the nerves of those heated by the cancellation. I avoid posting them here due to spoliers and don't wanna ruin it for anyone that has not seen the show.

[neorev]

Warning!
Spoilers:Jonesy lives and goes on with Libby to play baseball again... the Carnivale is disbanded but must come back together... Lodz apparently returns in some way if you look at the pitch document, it says he died in the 40's... Ben is alive and takes a sorta Management position... Brother Justin is alive, but has the blade still inside his chest, which is a ticking time bomb near his heart.... next two seasons would have focused on Sofie and her becoming the Omega... third season would have began with Justin giving a sermon with Sofie watching from the side with a child next... who's child? that's what the season would have gotten into... /End Spoilers.

Hopefully I did that right and didn't just fuck someone watching the show for the first time :P
Apologies in advance... LOOK AWAY!

[Kodiak33]

HBO needs another substantial heavy hitter like Game of Thrones. There's always room for it if they could market it right and people would watch it.

[neorev]

I really do think, even after all the years, that "Carnivale" could come back bigger than ever...
even something like "Brought back by demand" would be enough to perk people's interest I think.
and with the way how HBO is so interactive now with their series and online community, it would have a better shot.
we're living in interesting times and I think "Carnivale" would resonate with a wider audience better today than when it originally came out.
tell HBO to let 'em borrow some set era pieces from "Boardwalk Empire" lol.

I would literally bust a nut if this show ever came back.

Haven't heard much from Dan Knauf about "Year Zero," don't think he is allowed to talk about it just yet.
Plus now he is taking the reigns for a new "Dracula" series, which I believe is for NBC.

Hell, I'll take the rest of the story as a series of books if it was possible. But HBO won't give him the rights so he can continue it.
Fans suggested putting together a Kickstarter to raise the money for him to secure the rights. But knowing HBO, that's gotta be some big bucks.

When the show was first canceled, for months HBO was slammed with angry letters and tarot cards being sent to their offices and Knauf confirmed that HBO still gets shit til this very day about it. So come on HBO, fucking bring it back.

It's literally like you were in the middle of very interesting book and finally when things were picking up and coming together, someone came over and ripped it from your hands and threw it into a fire.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

neorev and eversonpoe. you will both likely be pleased to know that I am about to finally begin watching this as one of my weekly evening shows this week. You've both set the bar pretty high expectancy-wise, so hopefully this will help tide me over until the Twin Peaks resurrection in May :D

[neorev]

NYRexall
I just finished both seasons for like the dozenth time. :)

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I'm stoked! I've heard nothing but good things about it over the years. I'm anticipating greatness..

[sentient]

I recently did a re-watch and forgot the disappointment I felt by the final season's pacing and how they did the last couple of episodes. It felt badly rushed toward the end as the well played out details they were able to expound upon in the early stages of the series just kind of took a back seat to getting the story wrapped up. But overall, superb series.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Faaackkkkkk I miss this show!! This bump made me both happy and sad all at once.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Watched the pilot episode of this last evening. It was compelling, but nothing great just yet. I've read many reviews stating how the pacing of this show is agonizingly slow and how you just have to hang with it and let it draw itself out over time, so I'm all in patience-wise. I don't know how I'll deal with this show just abruptly having its plug pulled when things begin to take off in the second season, as some of you have noted.

To be honest, Oz and The Wire have literally ruined most HBO series for me because almost nothing can compare to those two in my eyes. The Sopranos bored the shit out of me. Boardwalk Empire was amazing for its first three seasons and then slid into mediocrity for its final two. Even the mighty Deadwood, which I enjoyed, was often frustratingly blunted by its languid pace and propensity for being too complicated for its own good.

I'm looking forward to Westworld being released on blu ray and hopefully redeeming HBO's track record over the past ten years. I enjoyed what they were doing with Vinyl, and then they yanked that one too.

Has anyone here seen Six Feet Under? Is that series worth investing several years of my life into?

[october_midnight]

Has anyone here seen Six Feet Under? Is that series worth investing several years of my life into?

Definitely.

[Kodiak33]

Definitely.

Seconded.

[neorev]

I recently did a re-watch and forgot the disappointment I felt by the final season's pacing and how they did the last couple of episodes. It felt badly rushed toward the end as the well played out details they were able to expound upon in the early stages of the series just kind of took a back seat to getting the story wrapped up. But overall, superb series.

To get the story wrapped up? HBO stopped the show after only 2 of 6 planned seasons. It was meant to be like a trilogy of books with 2 seasons making up a book. That's why the second season picks up speed like how a book starts moving along halfway through. The story wasn't wrapped up at all. Dan Knauf was at least nice enough to give us some info about the faiths of certain characters and what was to come. There was plenty of new characters to be introduced in the next four seasons. Plus he leaked the pitch document that explained a lot of the background.

But to say the second season was rushed to wrap up the story, I don't know about that because the story was not wrapped up at all. According to the creator, there was still 15 years to cover over the next 4 seasons. There are many questions left open, but perhaps that helps give the show everlasting greatness. You get some answers, but there's still enough to make you wonder and ask more questions.

Carnivale had one of HBO's largest audiences for its premiere that sadly dropped at the start of season 2, but actually grew again as the second season went on. I really do think a third season would have brought more people in. Hell, it still has a cult following after well over a decade and I'm constantly seeing new people discover and fall in love with the show only gutted to find it was axed early. One of HBO's biggest mistakes ever.

HBO can give me great shows like Game Of Thrones and Westworld, but Carnivale still hold that #1 spot in my book.

I don't want to spoil anything for new viewers, but the creator has posted some interesting things about the story that I got to copy and paste that will excite fans to learn from the man himself.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Seconded.

Thirded.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Definitely.


Seconded.


Thirded.

Awesome. Thanks for recommending. I will start this one asap..

[Space Suicide]

Awesome. Thanks for recommending. I will start this one asap..

I own the series DVDs in individual season releases and spent around 10.00 per season so...no money woes getting it.

[bobbie solo]

Six Feet Under is my favorite TV series of all time. SO well acted. And that finale...best ever.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Six Feet Under is my favorite TV series of all time. SO well acted. And that finale...best ever.

Is it like suspense-drama? Is the quality exceptional through all five seasons?

[Deepvoid]

Is it like suspense-drama? Is the quality exceptional through all five seasons?

Six Feet Under is one of the most depressing show I've ever watched. Good but such a debbie downer.

[neorev]

My girl loves Six Feet Under. I thought it was decent, not amazing, but decent. And agree on it being pretty depressing.

[october_midnight]

Is it like suspense-drama? Is the quality exceptional through all five seasons?

It's hard to put your finger on it, but the only real suspense you'll probably feel is when anything happens to one of the characters, since it's written so well that you really develop feelings for pretty much every character. You'll hate someone, then love them an episode later...

As for the quality, it never wanes, the writing was that solid. And as was mentioned, that ending. If anyone ever tells you it's not one of the top 3 last thirty minutes of a series, they're a fucking liar.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Greeeeeeeat. Another dark, depressing drama to cry myself to sleep after, lol

I've heard the finale is one of the best ever, as far as finales go. My season 1 DVD is currently in NJ. Hurry up and get to me already!

[neorev]

WARNING:
DO NOT READ THIS POST IF YOU HAVE NOT WATCHED AND/OR FINISHED THE SHOW!






Dan Knauf, the creator of Carnivale, recently took to Facebook to give fans a little more incite into what would have been in store for Season 3...



Somebody texted me and politely asked what I had in mind for S3 of Carnivàle. I decided to tell him. This is what I said:

"S3 would have started 4 years after the end of S2."

"Brother Justin's "Church of the Air" would be thriving, wielding vast political clout. Justin himself would be greatly diminished from his battle with Ben at the close of S2, suffering chronic physical and psychic pain."

"The real powers behind the throne would be his sister, Iris, and his wife, Sofie. Sofie has eclipsed Iris, however, and is the de facto queen of Justin's empire."

"But she harbors a dark secret: that her husband is, in fact, her father, having been the unholy product of his rape of Apollonia. The potential explosive effect of this truth is exacerbated by the fact that Justin and Sofie have a four year old son."

"Meanwhile Iris is sparing no expense, opportunity or effort to root out Sofie's secret in order to reassert control over her brother."

"We find Ben, also in a diminished state, living in the curtained alcove of Management's trailer. The Carnivàle troupe has been disbanded, the original cast scattered to the winds. Only Samson and Ben remain, working as itinerant performers for a 3rd rate carnival on the Southeast circuit."

"Ben is plagued by nightmares of the first atomic bomb test and premonitions of a Nazi-controlled America. calls Samson in and orders him to "find the others." They must resume the battle for the sake of mankind."

"And that's just the first ten minutes of the first episode. Is the child Justin's or Ben's? That remains to be revealed..."

Also, shortly after the cancellation annoucement, Mr. Knauff also let us know that Jonesy is not dead as well as the piece of the blade that broke off in Brother Justin would still be in him and leave him wounded in a diminished state while Ben would become more like Management trying to bring the pieces together. He also said he had 15 more years to cover with the 4 remaining seasons, hence why he turned down the idea of finishing the story in a movie in order to tie up loose ends. He didn't want to hurt the story trying to squeeze 15 years worth of story into a single movie. Marvel wanted to continue the story as a graphic novel series, but HBO blocked it. He also tried to get HBO to participate in Comic Cons back in the day before they were all the rage like they are today. He felt the show could grow an audience that way, but HBO was completely clueless about Comic Con and wouldn't go along.

Here is the official pitch document PDF that was leaked, which was used to help outline the series and pitch it to HBO and gives us some answers as well as backgrounds for many characters...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/adqbjogp2uqwyhz/carnivale_pitch_document.pdf?dl=0







(https://www.dropbox.com/s/adqbjogp2uqwyhz/carnivale_pitch_document.pdf?dl=0)

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Watched the second episode last evening. Much more going on than the premiere, which I suspected would be the case. I can see myself really enjoying this as it unfolds..

[neorev]

Watched the second episode last evening. Much more going on than the premiere, which I suspected would be the case. I can see myself really enjoying this as it unfolds..

Trust me, the slowness is worth it. I never had an issue with the speed of the first season. It's one of the few shows where you just love all of the characters and care for them because they're given time to develop... the good and the bad guys.

This show had four big emotional moments for me over the two seasons where I wanted to almost cry. Whatever, I can admit it. I'm a man, shit made me well up. And that's because I had to time to care for these characters.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Trust me, the slowness is worth it. I never had an issue with the speed of the first season. It's one of the few shows where you just love all of the characters and care for them because they're given time to develop... the good and the bad guys.

This show had four big emotional moments for me over the two seasons where I wanted to almost cry. Whatever, I can admit it. I'm a man, shit made me well up. And that's because I had to time to care for these characters.

No shame in crying, bruh. I do it all the time myself. It's 2017, where hyper-sensitivity is the norm anyway..

I'm not attached to any of the characters yet (obviously), but none of them are anything less than interesting either. The only thing that annoys me about this show at the moment is the overtly-arcane dialogue and the stiffness in the way Clea Duvall delivers her lines whenever she's talking to her mother. I get that it's set in the 1930s and people talked with a different vernacular then, but any time they use a word or expression from the era, it comes across as forced and unnatural and it sticks out to me like a sore thumb.

Perhaps I was spoiled by the three seasons of Deadwood, where the dialogue and the vernacular of that era was executed flawlessly and was actually a driving factor of the storylines.

[eversonpoe]

No shame in crying, bruh. I do it all the time myself. It's 2017, where hyper-sensitivity is the norm anyway..

I'm not attached to any of the characters yet (obviously), but none of them are anything less than interesting either. The only thing that annoys me about this show at the moment is the overtly-arcane dialogue and the stiffness in the way Clea Duvall delivers her lines whenever she's talking to her mother. I get that it's set in the 1930s and people talked with a different vernacular then, but any time they use a word or expression from the era, it comes across as forced and unnatural and it sticks out to me like a sore thumb.

Perhaps I was spoiled by the three seasons of Deadwood, where the dialogue and the vernacular of that era was executed flawlessly and was actually a driving factor of the storylines.

there's reasons that sofie talks to her mom that way that will become apparent as the show continues for you.

[neorev]

there's reasons that sofie talks to her mom that way that will become apparent as the show continues for you.
NYRexall ^^^ truth ^^^

[Deepvoid]

Carnivale has been on my watchlist for quite some time and I finally took the plunge. Loving it so far. I'm only 4 episodes in but I'm really into the story, the setting, the characters .. everything to be quite honest.
Guess you can't go wrong with any HBO programming.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Guess you can't go wrong with any HBO programming.

Oz and The Wire have set some titanic standards for me, as far as how great a television series can be and what I expect others to rise to to the level of. I'm hoping other HBO shows I'm about to start in on, like Westworld and Six Feet Under, are able to live up to those standards.

[neorev]

Carnivale has been on my watchlist for quite some time and I finally took the plunge. Loving it so far. I'm only 4 episodes in but I'm really into the story, the setting, the characters .. everything to be quite honest.
Guess you can't go wrong with any HBO programming.

Yeah, it's a beautifully shot and very detailed show even though it's set in such a horrible and bleak period of time. I own both seasons on DVD and would rebuy them in a heartbeat if HBO decided to release them on Blu-ray. Shame HBO doesn't give this show the respect it deserves. The only way to watch it in HD is on HBOGo.


Oz and The Wire have set some titanic standards for me, as far as how great a television series can be and what I expect others to rise to to the level of. I'm hoping other HBO shows I'm about to start in on, like Westworld and Six Feet Under, are able to live up to those standards.

I only made it to around the first quarter of Season 2 of Oz. I thought it was alright. I do want to finish it one day. I haven't seen The Wire, the premise just never interested me.

P.S. I absolutely love The Sopranos. ;)

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I only made it to around the first quarter of Season 2 of Oz. I thought it was alright. I do want to finish it one day. I haven't seen The Wire, the premise just never interested me.

P.S. I absolutely love The Sopranos. ;)

I've seen everything up to the sixth season of the Sopranos. Too languorous and slow-paced for my liking. It wasn't a bad show by any means, but it wasn't worthy of the immense hype it recieved, imo

The Wire is similarly slower-paced, but is so well-written with how each season unfolds with each episode that it becomes compulsive by about the third season. I'm currently in the middle of the fourth season and it gets more gripping with each new episode. I can see Carnivale mining a similar vein..

Oz is just something else entirely for me. I never thought a show would grip me the way The Shield or Breaking Bad did, but this one is nothing short of amazing. I don't think I've ever been so fascinated by an ensemble cast on a show in my life; not even Twin Peaks. And the characters on this show -- the best ones -- are so bad, but so well-written and suitable for the plotlines unfolding. Like elevenism touched in the official Oz thread I started, there's this palpable sense of doom to this show that nothing good is going to come out of this saga by series' end, and -- much like the Shield and Breaking Bad -- it only enthralls me more with each new episode.

I'm a fatalistic motherfucker like that, I guess :D

[elevenism]

Oz and The Wire have set some titanic standards for me, as far as how great a television series can be and what I expect others to rise to to the level of. I'm hoping other HBO shows I'm about to start in on, like Westworld and Six Feet Under, are able to live up to those standards.
Westworld, imo, is utterly fucking breathtaking. It plays with your mind in a way I've never really seen done before and makes me feel like we're living in a golden age of television. I can't recommend it enough. Then again, our tastes aren't exactly the same so I can't GUARANTEE you'll like it, but I seriously believe it's something really special.

As for Carnivale, one of you guys told me to check it out a couple of years ago but I only watched one episode. Sounds like it's time to give it another shot.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Westworld, imo, is utterly fucking breathtaking. It plays with your mind in a way I've never really seen done before and makes me feel like we're living in a golden age of television. I can't recommend it enough. Then again, our tastes aren't exactly the same so I can't GUARANTEE you'll like it, but I seriously believe it's something really special.

I've heard nothing but overwhelming praise for Westworld from everyone I've talked to who's seen it. I'm pretty sure I will enjoy it because the premise already intrigues me and there are a ton of actors in it that I enjoy watching. Will wait for the first season to be released on Blu-ray and then let it unfold over a ten week period, syndication-style.

Carnivale already has my interest piqued after only two episodes, and the praise for it here from Everson and Neo has been high-end. Those dudes have never steered me wrong, so I'm just being patient and letting the saga unfold naturally. That seems to be the point of the show anyway..

[neorev]

NYRexall elevenism eversonpoe Self.Destructive.Pattern

Another amazing period piece drama series is Cinemax's The Knick starring Clive Owen and directed by Steven Soderbergh. So so so good! Takes place in early 1900s NYC at the Knickerbocker hospital with Owen playing a liquid cocaine addicted surgeon trying to push the boundaries of surgery. U2's Bono's daughter is also in it and quite amazing. Honestly, like Carnivale, everyone is fucking stellar. It went for two seasons. They were thinking about continuing it, but it seems Cinemax decided against it and would rather stick with action shows. I mean it does come to a conclusion with the season 2 finale, but they were looking for a new way to approach future seasons and possibly new characters. As much as I'd love to see more of The Knick, the two seasons are perfect and don't leave you hanging like Carnivale. Very well done and beautifully shot. I highly suggest folks to check it out. It really looked like Cinemax was finally stepping into HBO, Netflix, etc. greatness with this series, but it seems they want to stick with cheaper, mindless action shows according to their statement. When The Knick first premiered, they were also playing it on HBO to get people to come over to Cinemax (since both channels are owned by the same company) but they really should have just released it on HBO. I imagine it would have received an even bigger audience there than on Cinemax. It truly deserves more praise and respect.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I had no idea Cinemax was even still a thing..?

Alas, I've heard all great things about The Knick and plus Bono's daughter is vivacious af, so I will definitely be checking this out. Likely in tandem with the final two seasons of Penny Dreadful, since they canceled that one after only a couple of years as well : /

[neorev]

I had no idea Cinemax was even still a thing..?

Alas, I've heard all great things about The Knick and plus Bono's daughter is vivacious af, so I will definitely be checking this out. Likely in tandem with the final two seasons of Penny Dreadful, since they canceled that one after only a couple of years as well : /

Yeah, Cinemax only recently started getting into series but they've been somewhat lacking. To be honest, I was shocked a show as good as The Knick was on Cinemax. It's just on a whole other level compared to the rest of their line up.

With Penny Dreadful's "finale" though, they tried to claim that three seasons was the plan. But from what I heard from viewers about the finale and unanswered questions and certain plots elements that were introduced into the new season only to be left unfinished, it definitely seems like they got the axe and tried to pass it off as something planned. I thought the first season of Penny Dreadful was amazing, but it started losing me during the second season. I have yet to watch the third season and almost don't want to because of the bad things I've heard.

P.S. You will definitely love Bono's daughter in The Knick. It's pretty amazing where her character goes.

[eversonpoe]

neorev doesn't clint mansell do the score for the knick, too? that's how i originally heard about it and have been wanting to check it out. good to know it's top notch.

[neorev]

neorev doesn't clint mansell do the score for the knick, too? that's how i originally heard about it and have been wanting to check it out. good to know it's top notch.

Cliff Martinez does the score (Drive, The Neon Demon, Solaris)

Great score too!

[eversonpoe]

Cliff Martinez does the score (Drive, The Neon Demon, Solaris)

Great score too!

damnit! my brain always misfiles the two them (probably because of the shared initials and previous involvement in bands)

[october_midnight]

You wanna talk about a show that you'll be pissed got cancelled on the motherfucker of all cliffhangers. Oh boyyyy....

edit: re: The Knick

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Yeah, Cinemax only recently started getting into series but they've been somewhat lacking. To be honest, I was shocked a show as good as The Knick was on Cinemax. It's just on a whole other level compared to the rest of their line up.

With Penny Dreadful's "finale" though, they tried to claim that three seasons was the plan. But from what I heard from viewers about the finale and unanswered questions and certain plots elements that were introduced into the new season only to be left unfinished, it definitely seems like they got the axe and tried to pass it off as something planned. I thought the first season of Penny Dreadful was amazing, but it started losing me during the second season. I have yet to watch the third season and almost don't want to because of the bad things I've heard.

P.S. You will definitely love Bono's daughter in The Knick. It's pretty amazing where her character goes.

Ahhh, I totally forgot about The Knick. I am a big fan of Clive Owens work (So psyched that he will be in Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets!) I have both seasons in my backlog of series I have yet to dive into.

As for Penny Dreadful... don't even get me started. I loved every minute of that show, but the second season dragged a bit too much and could have gotten to the point a bit earlier to make even more room for story development instead of focusing sooo much on Poole. All in all, I still enjoyed it. If you are a fan, you should definitely watch the third season. It has it's moments, but you can obviously tell that there was so much more to explore in the Penny Dreadful universe and I do not believe for a second that the original plan was to make only three seasons. When they said "We cannot imagine this show without Vanessa Ives." Seriously??? You have allll of these compelling characters in the show at your disposal, yet you couldn't muster up even one more season? Ugh, rant over.

Other shows that left on a cliffhanger that never saw more continuity that I happened to love were "Jericho" and "Revolution". :(

[Frozen Beach]

Is this show even available in HD?
edit: Okay, so it's in HD on Amazon. Shame there's no bluray set.

[Space Suicide]

You wanna talk about a show that you'll be pissed got cancelled on the motherfucker of all cliffhangers. Oh boyyyy....

edit: re: The Knick

Seriously?

I feel foolish blind buying both months back now.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

When they said "We cannot imagine this show without Vanessa Ives."

If this turns out to be a spoiler, I'm going to dick punch you..

[october_midnight]

Seriously?

I feel foolish blind buying both months back now.

If you mean that it came off that I didn't like it, nooooo I may have been unclear. It was incredible, but the second season finale cliffhanger is insane, and knowing that we'll never see any more pisses me off to no end.

If you mean that you're worried you'll really like it and also feel bummed knowing what happens will never be resolved...join the club lol.

[Space Suicide]

If you mean that it came off that I didn't like it, nooooo I may have been unclear. It was incredible, but the second season finale cliffhanger is insane, and knowing that we'll never see any more pisses me off to no end.

If you mean that you're worried you'll really like it and also feel bummed knowing what happens will never be resolved...join the club lol.

No, being cancelled!

yes, that's what I meant haha. Disappointment incoming.

[neorev]

Is this show even available in HD?
edit: Okay, so it's in HD on Amazon. Shame there's no bluray set.

We're talking about so many shows, are you asking about where to get Carnivale in HD? I know it's on HBOGo and HBONow in HD. Sadly HBO only released it on DVD. I'd totally rebuy on Blu-ray if it was made available. But I must say, I do love the 6 disc DVD sets. They look almost like books. They have slipcases with a digipack DVD sized boxes that fold out. The art it quite nice. They came out with smaller 4 disc sets that weren't as nice, just thin plastic cases in a holder. I always hate how they kinda skimp out with Blu-ray cases though and put discs in those smaller blue plastic cases instead of cool art cases.

Outside slipcase for season 1...
http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/CYAAAOSwAuNW3PZa/s-l225.jpg

Inside foldout box...
http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mQNqZ99oOA5BeMhCjYvI3hA.jpg

Outside slipcase of season 2...
http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/pI0AAOSw241YlgKA/s-l225.jpg

The inside foldout case...
http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/8HMAAOSwzJ5XZzlN/s-l225.jpg

They fold out so that each panel has a clear disc holder, so it folds out to be 6 panels, one for each disc, with artwork on both sides. I found these pics online, but I could take better ones of my own sets if anyone is interested.

[Frozen Beach]

We're talking about so many shows, are you asking about where to get Carnivale in HD?
I was talking about Carnivale, yes. It's been quite a while since I've seen it, so I vaguely remember it.

[neorev]

I was talking about Carnivale, yes. It's been quite a while since I've seen it, so I vaguely remember it.

Ah ok, sadly it seems HD is only available in digital stores and on HBOGo and Now.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

About halfway through Season One and really beginning to enjoy this show! Friday nights when I watch it can't come soon enough.

Also started Six Feet Under last evening and just from the pilot episode I know I'm going to love the hell out of this show, too. The dark humor is already top notch. For example:

When the guy who played Dexter and the old man are standing over the casket holding the old man's wife..

Old Man: She looks so peaceful.

Dexter: Well, she's at peace now..

Old Man: If there's any justice in the world, she's shoveling shit in hell.

Haaahaha

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I've got three episodes left in the first season of Carnivale, and the second season already waiting in the wings. I'm already aware I'm going to have to re-watch this show at least a second time to figure out exactly what the hell is going on, but it's great stuff regardless. I don't mind the languid pace and a significant portion of it is pretty unnerving..

Some damn good television going on in my life right now. Oz continues to amaze, I'm about to start The Knick, Carnivale ramping up, Six Feet Under being great and Twin Peaks about to start up again. Hell, even the fourth season of Sons of Anarchy I'm watching has finally given that show a shot in the arm. I need to check out this 'American Gods' show that I keep hearing about, too..

[neorev]

NYRexall
Be prepared to be on the edge of your seat with your mouth gaped open during the final moments of Carnivale's season 1 finale. You'll probably not want to wait too long to put on Season 2. ;)

Carnivale is one of those shows where you discover new elements on repeat viewings. I never had an issue with the pacing of the show. It really helps that you spend time with these characters and you end up becoming close with all of them. You feel for the good guys as well as the bad guys. The first season puts all the pieces in place where as the second season is faster pace. Kinda like the way the last half of a book picks up steam. Seasons 1 and 2 are meant to be like a single book in a trilogy of books according to creator Knauf. Hope you didn't read my spoilers of what was to come in season 3 as told by Knauf. Once you finish the second season, go back and read it. I also have the pdf of the pitch document Knauf created and gave to HBO to show that gives you more incite into the story and with background information about each character. When you finish it all, I will send it to you. If you have some questions or something you'd like to discuss, I'd love to help where I can. I can never stop talking about this show. :)

I frigging love The Knick, such an amazing show. I think you will enjoy it. It's up there as one of my favorite series.

Americans Gods is quite good so far. It kinda makes me think AMC's Preacher wishes it was American Gods. It has some strange, out of this world, dark comedy on the world.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

@NYRexall (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=911)
Be prepared to be on the edge of your seat with your mouth gaped open during the final moments of Carnivale's season 1 finale. You'll probably not want to wait too long to put on Season 2. ;)

Carnivale is one of those shows where you discover new elements on repeat viewings. I never had an issue with the pacing of the show. It really helps that you spend time with these characters and you end up becoming close with all of them. You feel for the good guys as well as the bad guys. The first season puts all the pieces in place where as the second season is faster pace. Kinda like the way the last half of a book picks up steam. Seasons 1 and 2 are meant to be like a single book in a trilogy of books according to creator Knauf. Hope you didn't read my spoilers of what was to come in season 3 as told by Knauf. Once you finish the second season, go back and read it. I also have the pdf of the pitch document Knauf created and gave to HBO to show that gives you more incite into the story and with background information about each character. When you finish it all, I will send it to you. If you have some questions or something you'd like to discuss, I'd love to help where I can. I can never stop talking about this show. :)

I frigging love The Knick, such an amazing show. I think you will enjoy it. It's up there as one of my favorite series.

Americans Gods is quite good so far. It kinda makes me think AMC's Preacher wishes it was American Gods. It has some strange, out of this world, dark comedy on the world.

Preacher is another one I want to start in on soon. I just finished season two of the Americans and the Knick will replace it for a season, so it has some lofty shoes to fill.

I already decided that as soon as season one of Carnivale ends, I will likely jump right in to season two. Given how weird this show is, I feel it's better if I just keep on rolling with it. I will definitely come looking for that season three synopsis once I finish season two.

Can't wait to see where these war dreams Ben keeps having lead to, or what the hell the whole Knights Templar thing is about. I know you know all the answers to this stuff already, but we'll have to discuss once it all (hopefully) makes sense to me. Some incredibly weird shit happening on this show right now. I can't wait to see what happens next from week to week :eek:

[muad'nin]

NYRexall I love reading updates as to the shows you're watching, and your varying levels of enjoyment. I think because we have similar tastes in television, it makes for compulsive reading. :) Can I ask, how do you watch your shows? One episode of each show per week, or do you back-to-back episodes?

[neorev]

Two episodes left in the first season of Carnivale. The tension is mounting and I'm loving it. Sophie's catatonic mother creeps me the fuck out big time and Justin Crowe is equally off his nut. Being that this series is so short, it's likely I will immediately re-watch it as soon as I'm done with the first run through.

@neorev (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=584) I also started the Knick yesterday. This is going to be a tough one to sit through because blood-soaked surgeries and people shooting dope into their toes and their dick makes me especially squeamish. The slimy ambulance driver guy is a trip though, and I already feel attached to the negro doctor who is adept at making his own breaks, given all he's up against..

Yeah, The Knick will definitely make you squirm, that's for sure. ;)
But trust me, like Carnivale, you'll be pulled in by all of these characters, including the slimy ambulance driver lol.

[neorev]

NYRexall
Just when you think you might have a grasp on things...
Season 2 Episode 1 comes along and will blow your mind.
:D

I also highly, highly, highly suggest HBO's The Leftovers. An amazing fucking series that has reinvented itself and raised the bar with each season.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Saving the final episode of Carnivale season one for this coming Friday

@neorev (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=584) You weren't kidding about The Knick; this show is fantastic. Only four episodes in and I'm already invested in the characters. Some of these surgical procedures they perform are harrowing af, like Clive Owens attaching that girl's arm to her face so the skin will help her grow a new nose-piece..

[neorev]

Saving the final episode of Carnivale season one for this coming Friday

@neorev (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=584) You weren't kidding about The Knick; this show is fantastic. Only four episodes in and I'm already invested in the characters. Some of these surgical procedures they perform are harrowing af, like Clive Owens attaching that girl's arm to her face so the skin will help her grow a new nose-piece..

What's even crazier is that a lot of these wild procedures you see in this show are shit we actually did back in the day. It's actually quite amazing how far we were along with surgical procedures in the early 1900s. You think these things were discovered much later.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Finished the first season last evening. Pretty terrific stuff. In hindsight, they did a fantastic job slowly unspooling the narratives between the carnival folk so that it all came to somewhat of a head in the final episode. Justin Crowe's story arc seemed more like set-up than execution in this season, but I'm sure he'll be off to a galloping start once season two kicks in. Michael J. Anderson has killed it on this show for me so far. Despite his personal eccentricities, he was born for his role in this.

Can't wait to start the next season in a few weeks, so this, Oz and the Twin Peaks revival all close out on the same weekend for me in September. That's going to be one bittersweet farewell to some remarkable television..

[neorev]

Finished the first season last evening. Pretty terrific stuff. In hindsight, they did a fantastic job slowly unspooling the narratives between the carnival folk so that it all came to somewhat of a head in the final episode. Justin Crowe's story arc seemed more like set-up than execution in this season, but I'm sure he'll be off to a galloping start once season two kicks in. Michael J. Anderson has killed it on this show for me so far. Despite his personal eccentricities, he was born for his role in this.

Can't wait to start the next season in a few weeks, so this, Oz and the Twin Peaks revival all close out on the same weekend for me in September. That's going to be one bittersweet farewell to some remarkable television..

Let's hope years from now Carnivale becomes like Twin Peaks and it brought back :P

[neorev]

So Mr. Lynch is bumming ideas off Carnivále with the new Twin Peaks season I see. Interesting. Let's say the atomic bomb testing in New Mexico has a huge impact on Carnivále's story. What's the deal, Mr. Lynch?